OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread

[13th Man]

Remember that the cure cannot be worse than the problem. I should've added that as point #5 which has the backing of the WHO.

Ftr, I will be teaching an outdoor class in a little bit after a long day's work. The members are stoked, I am stoked. You can try to restrict us but you cannot stop the people that are able to look at the bigger picture, logically assess the risks and take appropriate measures in order to continue living a safe and healthy life.

Have fun being cooped up in your house and watching television in fear.

[Westside Gunn]

how are things looking on the employment front?

I've been laid off for a while now and i dont think things will get any better. i'm ****.

[Fairview4Life]

Remember that the cure cannot be worse than the problem. I should've added that as point #5 which has the backing of the WHO.

Ftr, I will be teaching an outdoor class in a little bit after a long day's work. The members are stoked, I am stoked. You can try to restrict us but you cannot stop the people that are able to look at the bigger picture, logically assess the risks and take appropriate measures in order to continue living a safe and healthy life.

Have fun being cooped up in your house and watching television in fear.

A smallish number of people spread out, outside...ok? Have fun? When you go back inside a public place, wear a **** mask.

[Duffman100]

Remember that the cure cannot be worse than the problem. I should've added that as point #5 which has the backing of the WHO.

Ftr, I will be teaching an outdoor class in a little bit after a long day's work. The members are stoked, I am stoked. You can try to restrict us but you cannot stop the people that are able to look at the bigger picture, logically assess the risks and take appropriate measures in order to continue living a safe and healthy life.

Have fun being cooped up in your house and watching television in fear.

The problem is people dying. What's worse than people dying?

Your outdoor class sounds responsible and fine, enjoy it.

[Basketball_Jones]

Remember that the cure cannot be worse than the problem. I should've added that as point #5 which has the backing of the WHO.

Ftr, I will be teaching an outdoor class in a little bit after a long day's work. The members are stoked, I am stoked. You can try to restrict us but you cannot stop the people that are able to look at the bigger picture, logically assess the risks and take appropriate measures in order to continue living a safe and healthy life.

Have fun being cooped up in your house and watching television in fear.

As long as it isn't an outdoor rave lol. It's gonna be too cold soon for this stuff, the real challenge is ahead.

[Hero]

how are things looking on the employment front?

I've been laid off for a while now and i dont think things will get any better. i'm ****.

Still getting CERB/EI?

[Childs]

Working in the healthcare sector in the States and found out that I got a position back in Toronto. So happy to soon be back home and close to family. Good to be back in some semblance of sanity.

[Childs]

Remember that the cure cannot be worse than the problem. I should've added that as point #5 which has the backing of the WHO.

Ftr, I will be teaching an outdoor class in a little bit after a long day's work. The members are stoked, I am stoked. You can try to restrict us but you cannot stop the people that are able to look at the bigger picture, logically assess the risks and take appropriate measures in order to continue living a safe and healthy life.

Have fun being cooped up in your house and watching television in fear.

2 months later

[13th Man]

Read on Twitter

[13th Man]

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

This was the study that Rand Paul was referring to:

Objective The aim of this study was to compare the efficacy of cloth masks to medical masks in hospital healthcare workers (HCWs). The null hypothesis is that there is no difference between medical masks and cloth masks.

Setting 14 secondary-level/tertiary-level hospitals in Hanoi, Vietnam.

Participants 1607 hospital HCWs aged ≥18 years working full-time in selected high-risk wards.

Intervention Hospital wards were randomised to: medical masks, cloth masks or a control group (usual practice, which included mask wearing). Participants used the mask on every shift for 4 consecutive weeks.

Main outcome measure Clinical respiratory illness (CRI), influenza-like illness (ILI) and laboratory-confirmed respiratory virus infection.

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

[13th Man]

Remember that the cure cannot be worse than the problem. I should've added that as point #5 which has the backing of the WHO.

Ftr, I will be teaching an outdoor class in a little bit after a long day's work. The members are stoked, I am stoked. You can try to restrict us but you cannot stop the people that are able to look at the bigger picture, logically assess the risks and take appropriate measures in order to continue living a safe and healthy life.

Have fun being cooped up in your house and watching television in fear.

As long as it isn't an outdoor rave lol. It's gonna be too cold soon for this stuff, the real challenge is ahead.

Yep, but not too cold for hiking and trail running. I just bought Rogue Concept 2 Rower machine because I've started to really enjoy rowing but nothing beats being out in nature. The more that they impose all of these lockdowns, the more time that I will be spending outdoors.

[Basketball_Jones]

I got a treadmill in the garage. Hoping it doesn’t crap out in the cold. Not sure if I can really get a good run in either if it’s minus 10 or lower. Thinking of putting in some heaters in the garage

[execoftheyear]

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

This was the study that Rand Paul was referring to:

Objective The aim of this study was to compare the efficacy of cloth masks to medical masks in hospital healthcare workers (HCWs). The null hypothesis is that there is no difference between medical masks and cloth masks.

Setting 14 secondary-level/tertiary-level hospitals in Hanoi, Vietnam.

Participants 1607 hospital HCWs aged ≥18 years working full-time in selected high-risk wards.

Intervention Hospital wards were randomised to: medical masks, cloth masks or a control group (usual practice, which included mask wearing). Participants used the mask on every shift for 4 consecutive weeks.

Main outcome measure Clinical respiratory illness (CRI), influenza-like illness (ILI) and laboratory-confirmed respiratory virus infection.

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

"cloth mask" is a very vague description. What materials are the masks made of? I think this is more important in determining it's effectiveness.

Watch on YouTube

;t=11s&ab_channel=Dr.JohnCampbell

23:18
This man tests 3 different cloth masks and clearly they vary in effectiveness.

And I don't really see the point in comparing cloth masks to medical grade masks. Obviously medical grade masks are more effective. Cloth masks are more effective than no masks at all so what's your point?

[Westside Gunn]

I got a treadmill in the garage. Hoping it doesn’t crap out in the cold. Not sure if I can really get a good run in either if it’s minus 10 or lower. Thinking of putting in some heaters in the garage

those motors are pretty sensitive. if your basement is big enough you can do laps around it. call the treadmill company to make sure if it can handle the cold.

i didn't like running on that for hours so i think ill continue running outdoors. will just be dressing warmer.

how are things looking on the employment front?

I've been laid off for a while now and i dont think things will get any better. i'm ****.

Still getting CERB/EI?

EI

id rather be contributing....

[Local_NG_Idiot]

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

This was the study that Rand Paul was referring to:

Objective The aim of this study was to compare the efficacy of cloth masks to medical masks in hospital healthcare workers (HCWs). The null hypothesis is that there is no difference between medical masks and cloth masks.

Setting 14 secondary-level/tertiary-level hospitals in Hanoi, Vietnam.

Participants 1607 hospital HCWs aged ≥18 years working full-time in selected high-risk wards.

Intervention Hospital wards were randomised to: medical masks, cloth masks or a control group (usual practice, which included mask wearing). Participants used the mask on every shift for 4 consecutive weeks.

Main outcome measure Clinical respiratory illness (CRI), influenza-like illness (ILI) and laboratory-confirmed respiratory virus infection.

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

"cloth mask" is a very vague description. What materials are the masks made of? I think this is more important in determining it's effectiveness.

And I don't really see the point in comparing cloth masks to medical grade masks. Obviously medical grade masks are more effective. Cloth masks are more effective than no masks at all so what's your point?

I read through the study, here's what their data actually breaks down:

Once again it only tests for Protecting the Wearer (already discussed ad nauseam in here) as a Health Care Worker. ZERO mention of infected patients being treated wearing any type of face covering.

filtration of med masks (3 ply non-woven) vs. filtration of cloth masks (2 ply cotton - no thread count and characterized as Vietnamese cotton).

Med mask group - worn for 4 weeks with 'compliance' as being worn at all times (580 participants)
Cloth mask group - worn for 4 weeks with 'compliance' as being worn at all times (569 participants)
Control group - defined as 'Standard Practice' with 'compliance' as being worn 70% of their working time (458 participants)

In the control arm, 170/458 (37%) used medical masks, 38/458 (8%) used cloth masks, and 245/458 (53%) used a combination of both medical and cloth masks during the study period. The remaining 1% either reported using a N95 respirator (n=3) or did not use any masks (n=2).

BTW, I love this line in the study:

"Standard practice was used as control because the IRB deemed it unethical to ask participants to not wear a mask."

So their infection rate for cloth masks for virus was 5.4% while medical masks was 3.3%. So med masks were 1.6 times more effective than cloth.

Also, a few pages back I had posted standard filtration efficiencies for med masks and different types of cloth, standard med masks are in the range of 93-96% while double layer cottons are between 60-70%...and surprise, surprise med mask filtration efficiency is right around 1.6 times that of the double layer cottons.

Now the objective was of this study was:

Compare the efficacy of cloth masks to medical masks in hospital healthcare workers (HCWs). The null hypothesis is that there is no difference between medical masks and cloth masks.

To which they conclude and everyone can agree that yes, this and other studies prove medical masks are more effective than cloth masks at slowing the rate of infection.

But, you know, let's all believe Rand Paul and his bull conflation that cloth masks don't slow infection rates.......**** sakes.

[13th Man]

Remember that the cure cannot be worse than the problem. I should've added that as point #5 which has the backing of the WHO.

Ftr, I will be teaching an outdoor class in a little bit after a long day's work. The members are stoked, I am stoked. You can try to restrict us but you cannot stop the people that are able to look at the bigger picture, logically assess the risks and take appropriate measures in order to continue living a safe and healthy life.

Have fun being cooped up in your house and watching television in fear.

The problem is people dying. What's worse than people dying?

Your outdoor class sounds responsible and fine, enjoy it.

Thanks. We don't have a choice. Indoor gyms were responsible too but they all got shut down.

[13th Man]

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

This was the study that Rand Paul was referring to:

Objective The aim of this study was to compare the efficacy of cloth masks to medical masks in hospital healthcare workers (HCWs). The null hypothesis is that there is no difference between medical masks and cloth masks.

Setting 14 secondary-level/tertiary-level hospitals in Hanoi, Vietnam.

Participants 1607 hospital HCWs aged ≥18 years working full-time in selected high-risk wards.

Intervention Hospital wards were randomised to: medical masks, cloth masks or a control group (usual practice, which included mask wearing). Participants used the mask on every shift for 4 consecutive weeks.

Main outcome measure Clinical respiratory illness (CRI), influenza-like illness (ILI) and laboratory-confirmed respiratory virus infection.

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

"cloth mask" is a very vague description. What materials are the masks made of? I think this is more important in determining it's effectiveness.

Watch on YouTube

;t=11s&ab_channel=Dr.JohnCampbell

23:18
This man tests 3 different cloth masks and clearly they vary in effectiveness.

And I don't really see the point in comparing cloth masks to medical grade masks. Obviously medical grade masks are more effective. Cloth masks are more effective than no masks at all so what's your point?

- There are many studies that show the limited effectiveness of cloth masks when it comes to filtering.
- Other studies show that most people aren't wearing the masks properly
- There are no studies that show how many people have their cloth masks machine-washed after daily use. If there were, my guess would be that the number would be extremely low.
- The CDC study showed that 3/4 of the people in their study that were infect always wear masks

People like to look at only one aspect of the cloth mask to base their conclusion on which is pretty silly to me. You need to look overall picture and take everything into account that is relevant. As I've mentioned repeatedly, masks are deemed be somewhat effective in a vacuum but in the real world scenario, are they really? The stats do not show it, especially where people wearing mostly cloth masks.

[mintsa]

Today.

821 cases on only 24,000 tests ??

Should this not be alarming that we were still at the 800 mark with only half the tests done ?

Am I missing something here ?

[Caboclo]

Read on Twitter

[Raps in 4]

I got a treadmill in the garage. Hoping it doesn’t crap out in the cold. Not sure if I can really get a good run in either if it’s minus 10 or lower. Thinking of putting in some heaters in the garage

I would try to move it indoors, or heat the garage (if it's not too expensive). It can get damaged in the cold.