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SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams

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SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#1 » by Steelo Green » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:34 am

Not going to give any opinion, you guys be the judge:

Non-Playoff teams:

25.6PPG on 51FG%/42 3pt%/81FT%

Playoff teams:

20.4PPG on 40FG%/30 3pt%/78FT%
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#2 » by Tor_Raps » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:52 am

I think we can all agree that he crapped the bed in the playoffs. He screwed up by not staying in shape during the pandemic and thats fully on him

Doesnt feel like we can judge his bubble performance since he seem to have handled a once in a lifetime event very poorly. Most of us believe that just isn't him and shouldn't be going forward.

With that said, I'm sure a vast majority of players have better numbers against worse teams and struggle more against good teams. That just isn't a Siakam thing.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#3 » by Steelo Green » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:39 am

This isn’t just the playoffs or bubble, the is the entire regular season.

His numbers fall off against good teams, not dip.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#4 » by vbmeer » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:45 am

He is a proverbial can crusher. Feasting on the poor, and putting over the real.

Several people noted how he rarely had a good performance against a good teams in the regular season and knew the likelihood would be he'd struggle in the playoffs. He becomes a 3-pt lotto machine against good teams, if those aren't falling for him on a high clip on a given night, he was guaranteed to be bad that game.

The mere effort of opposing teams running back and playing actual transition defense against him shuts down a significant portion of how he gets into rhythm in games. And that opposing defensive effort will be there in the playoffs. In the set half-court he is predictable because he has rudimentary tools in the his bag that he is comfortable using, so it translates into Jerami Grant with a green light allowed to occasionally ISO on a mismatch.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#5 » by canada_dry » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:57 am

Do that stats on this pre injury.

His stats vs non playoff teams vs playoff teams, but before he got hurt.

Id be very interested to see those stats, because post injury he wasn't right. He picked it up a bit post all star break, but then after the suspension and in the bubble obviously he was crap.

My whole thing is, If pre injury siakam is something we can expect moving forward, which i think is the hope, (and it wasnt a small sample size so im optimistic), then how did THAT version of siakam do vs playoff teams.

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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#6 » by Basketball_Jones » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:16 am

Lol click bait. We all know Siakam has to get better against good teams. I honestly think we should stop pigeon holing him as a half court first option and just make him go back to the opportunistic scorer he was behind Kawhi. Yeah, we have no Kawhi but I really hate seeing Siakam jack up bricks behind the 3 point line like he’s Paul George
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#7 » by Badonkadonk » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:43 am

Players have lower stats against stronger teams. Amazing.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#8 » by Indeed » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:49 am

I don't think Siakam would be the only to have felt off.
Meanwhile, he definitely has things to improve, and I am not too worry about with our coaching stuffs providing guidelines. It is more about the other positions we need to take another step to provide another spark / mismatch.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#9 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:17 am

Steelo Green wrote:Not going to give any opinion, you guys be the judge:

Non-Playoff teams:

25.6PPG on 51FG%/42 3pt%/81FT%

Playoff teams:

20.4PPG on 40FG%/30 3pt%/78FT%


he's just a role player in a #1 spot. can't fault the franchise for wanting him to take that "next step". lots of teams do it - force betas and role players into that star spot. those splits can not be ignored.

you may not like this but his best has always been hustling after extra possessions and on the fast break/transition basketball. utilizing his length, speed and hustle has got to be his greatest asset. ofc in the halfcourt none of those skills are used to its fullest potential.

at least all of the above was true this past year. i'm all for hoping Siakam takes it to the next level next year but he's turning 27 next year and currently at the prime of his athleticism. he'll need to get more fundamentals like a jumpshot and ball handling if he wants to be a useful player after his 30s.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#10 » by God Squad » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:43 am

Tor_Raps wrote:I think we can all agree that he crapped the bed in the playoffs. He screwed up by not staying in shape during the pandemic and thats fully on him

Doesnt feel like we can judge his bubble performance since he seem to have handled a once in a lifetime event very poorly. Most of us believe that just isn't him and shouldn't be going forward.

With that said, I'm sure a vast majority of players have better numbers against worse teams and struggle more against good teams. That just isn't a Siakam thing.

I agree with 100%. But Pascal has struggled all year. He got off to a hot (amazing) start then came back down to earth once defenses adjusted. But honestly, I don't even want to talk about Pascal right now. That's how disappointed I am in him. I legit feel we could have beaten the Celtics if he was even 10%. The offseason/draft needs to hurry up.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#11 » by God Squad » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:51 am

Basketball_Jones wrote:Lol click bait. We all know Siakam has to get better against good teams. I honestly think we should stop pigeon holing him as a half court first option and just make him go back to the opportunistic scorer he was behind Kawhi. Yeah, we have no Kawhi but I really hate seeing Siakam jack up bricks behind the 3 point line like he’s Paul George

Yup. Theoretically, he should look much better with a legit first option again. Watching him "try" and iso just appears like he's doing too much or trying too hard. Last season Pascal's bread and butter were transition points which seem like they're much harder for him to come by (against good teams). Also if he drives and you cut off his typical spin move, he'll just toss it up without even looking at the basket.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#12 » by fbalmeida » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:17 am

We would've certainly defeated the Celtics had Siakam averaged 20ppg on 40% FG and 30% 3pt.

A dip between bad and good teams - and 25 to 20 is a bit of a dip - is to be expected. But whatever happened to Siakam in the bubble was more of a swan dive off the Scarborough bluffs than a dip. He put up his vs playoff team regular season numbers against a Nets playing at a G-league+ level.

Against Boston he went 15 ppg, 38% FG and 13% 3pt. He essentially became Rondae Hollis Jefferson.

In the bubble seeding games, he averaged a passable, but still well below his par 17 ppg, 40% FG and 35% 3p%. Oddly one of his better games was against Miami. But he never seemed himself and it all came out cathartically against Boston.

I sure hope he comes back with a vengeance. I'm confident he will. I can see him, down the road, doing the Roger Milla dance after winning more titles.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#13 » by OakleyDokely » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:55 pm

These numbers dont really mean much unless you compare his numbers to other comparable players.

I'd bet that most players in his tier (players ranked #11-30 in the league) also post much better numbers against weaker competition.

What makes players like Lebron, Kawhi, Curry elite are their abilities to post big numbers regardless of the competition. Nobody believes Siakam belongs in this elite group.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#14 » by ItsDanger » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:04 pm

It was a trend during the season. The clear variant is 3 pt shooting. Why so bad vs good teams when they're more likely to back off on his 3's? His bad 3 pt misses is a red flag for bad form. Watch his entire game highlights and its either all net or absolute brick most of the time.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#15 » by Duffman100 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:07 pm

Nobody even addressed the 'wide open misses' in my other thread. Why Pascal all of a sudden lost his touch this season.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#16 » by J-Roc » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:14 pm

Better teams have better stats against everyone??
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#17 » by BigBoss23 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:16 pm

The book on him has always been to minimize transition opportunities and make him beat you in the half court and/or shooting the rock from downtown.

His 3 pt shooting was sub par even during the championship season in the playoffs. These numbers are no coincidence. It was a mistake to sign him to the new contract when we did.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#18 » by Oakvillehoops » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:38 pm

Good teams were guarding Siakam above the 3 point line. He’s like Giannis in the sense if you don’t let him just pick up steam, he can’t get by you on the face up. He’s also incapable of making a 3 with a hand in his face unless he gets to do his double dribble walk up into his spot. Guarding him above the line takes that away from him.

He’s a second option, and that’s fine, just need to find a proper number 1. The drop off in stats is far more dramatic then people realize. People are even forgetting that in a lot of these games, Nurse would leave Siakam out there once the games over, against the other teams scrubs to build his confidence. He would often pick up his last 6-8 points in these 2 minutes.

Siakam has been scouted, and his game as is wont cut it. The next move is his, to improve, or just settle.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#19 » by fbalmeida » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:49 pm

I was alerted by an attentive guy to how his guiding hand was inconsistently placed in his follow through. When it should always be parallel and stable, his form was just unstable from shot to shot. He lost his rhythm during the lockdown. Others picked it up faster because they've been shooting since they were like 11.

He'll be back.
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Re: SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams 

Post#20 » by Tor_Raps » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:00 pm

God Squad wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:I think we can all agree that he crapped the bed in the playoffs. He screwed up by not staying in shape during the pandemic and thats fully on him

Doesnt feel like we can judge his bubble performance since he seem to have handled a once in a lifetime event very poorly. Most of us believe that just isn't him and shouldn't be going forward.

With that said, I'm sure a vast majority of players have better numbers against worse teams and struggle more against good teams. That just isn't a Siakam thing.

I agree with 100%. But Pascal has struggled all year. He got off to a hot (amazing) start then came back down to earth once defenses adjusted. But honestly, I don't even want to talk about Pascal right now. That's how disappointed I am in him. I legit feel we could have beaten the Celtics if he was even 10%. The offseason/draft needs to hurry up.


I feel the same way. We had a great chance at the title with a normal Siakam. If he doesn't bounce back next year, this fanbase will turn on him quickly.

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