ImageImageImageImageImage

Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract

Moderators: Patman, pbj, Alfred, Duffman100, Morris_Shatford, DG88, Rhettmatic, niQ

User avatar
bluerap23
Analyst
Posts: 3,288
And1: 2,967
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
   

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#21 » by bluerap23 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:04 pm

Ackshun wrote:
Basketball_Jones wrote:
Ackshun wrote:Not sure how I feel dishing out that much of our cap to a guy that literally **** the bed in the playoffs.

Will he improve ? I dunno. He was out there playing hero ball.

Saw some comparisons statistically to Lillard but..Lillard he is not.


He struggled shooting but overall his numbers certainly don’t qualify as crapping the bed. Maybe you’re thinking of Siakam


19ppg on 17 shots for both rounds.

47-135 in the Boston series for a whopping 35%. Dont care whatever advanced stats get thrown at me here. When you shoot the ball that much, and fail that many times, you have shat the bed.

And yes, more than one player can **** the bed.

Also in the words of Bargani, its basketball. Not rebound ball. Or PER ball. Or VORP ball.

Lol. Ok. Seriously. That's a lot of money.


So basically you are saying he shat the bed based on his shooting percentage in one playoff series. Go check Kemba’s numbers with FVV guarding him.

We don’t win the chip with out him. Period.

There are not many high leverage 3/D role players out there that can deliver the way he has.

Makes me so sad that our own fan base cannot appreciate what we have.
Image
User avatar
Steelo Green
RealGM
Posts: 12,459
And1: 21,309
Joined: Feb 06, 2013

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#22 » by Steelo Green » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:07 pm

If the cap goes down 10-15% then this is crazy.

Fred is due something like 15 mil if the cap goes down.

Also this premier position is a fallacy. It’s the deepest position in the league.
AbC?
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,669
And1: 6,076
Joined: Feb 02, 2005
Location: Toronto

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#23 » by AbC? » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:08 pm

Nearly every team will have huge cap space next off-season. If we need to make room to sign Giannis or someone else he would be a positive trade asset even at 20+ million. 18/6/4 with excellent defense, entering his prime years, championship experience and top tier locker room guy. FVV is a fringe all-star level (in the East) player and plenty of teams would love to have a younger vet to help their prospects develop.

No brainer to re-sign him. Terrible asset management to let him walk over a few million premium.
VanWest82
RealGM
Posts: 10,364
And1: 10,821
Joined: Dec 05, 2008

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#24 » by VanWest82 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:08 pm

Fred was arguably our second best player last year behind Lowry. 4/85M is a fair deal assuming the cap stays flat (big assumption). Brogdon comp is a good one.
Ackshun
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,996
And1: 2,103
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#25 » by Ackshun » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:27 pm

bluerap23 wrote:
Ackshun wrote:
Basketball_Jones wrote:
He struggled shooting but overall his numbers certainly don’t qualify as crapping the bed. Maybe you’re thinking of Siakam


19ppg on 17 shots for both rounds.

47-135 in the Boston series for a whopping 35%. Dont care whatever advanced stats get thrown at me here. When you shoot the ball that much, and fail that many times, you have shat the bed.

And yes, more than one player can **** the bed.

Also in the words of Bargani, its basketball. Not rebound ball. Or PER ball. Or VORP ball.

Lol. Ok. Seriously. That's a lot of money.


So basically you are saying he shat the bed based on his shooting percentage in one playoff series. Go check Kemba’s numbers with FVV guarding him.

We don’t win the chip with out him. Period.

There are not many high leverage 3/D role players out there that can deliver the way he has.

Makes me so sad that our own fan base cannot appreciate what we have.


Well, I have other reasons for holding my opinion regarding FVV. I think he does a ton of great things for us and yeah he was super clutch for the Kawhi run. But he was literally our 6th scoring option back then (and paid like one). And yea, he locked up Curry but prior, was unplayable against Philly.

Anyhow we are all entitled to our opinions. Paying FVV that much $ is an error in my personal opinion. He isn't Brogdon.

Also, I'm not saying I don't want him back. Just saying the price is steep considering.
User avatar
Steelo Green
RealGM
Posts: 12,459
And1: 21,309
Joined: Feb 06, 2013

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#26 » by Steelo Green » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:47 pm

Ackshun wrote:
bluerap23 wrote:
Ackshun wrote:
19ppg on 17 shots for both rounds.

47-135 in the Boston series for a whopping 35%. Dont care whatever advanced stats get thrown at me here. When you shoot the ball that much, and fail that many times, you have shat the bed.

And yes, more than one player can **** the bed.

Also in the words of Bargani, its basketball. Not rebound ball. Or PER ball. Or VORP ball.

Lol. Ok. Seriously. That's a lot of money.


So basically you are saying he shat the bed based on his shooting percentage in one playoff series. Go check Kemba’s numbers with FVV guarding him.

We don’t win the chip with out him. Period.

There are not many high leverage 3/D role players out there that can deliver the way he has.

Makes me so sad that our own fan base cannot appreciate what we have.


Well, I have other reasons for holding my opinion regarding FVV. I think he does a ton of great things for us and yeah he was super clutch for the Kawhi run. But he was literally our 6th scoring option back then (and paid like one). And yea, he locked up Curry but prior, was unplayable against Philly.

Anyhow we are all entitled to our opinions. Paying FVV that much $ is an error in my personal opinion. He isn't Brogdon.

Also, I'm not saying I don't want him back. Just saying the price is steep considering.

Yep.

He is an elite three point shooter who doesn’t have much to his offensive game and plays good D.

He is easy to shut down if he’s your 1-3 best player but looks great in that 4-5 role. His stats this year don’t do justice in terms of what he is. At the end of the day playoffs is what matters and he did exactly what many of us thought against Boston which was look lost against length, bad at finishing, little to no mid range, and couldn’t hit the three when he had to create for himself.

Sure as the 4-6 best player on your team he’s great, but do you pay that guy 20+ with a cap going down?

I like Fred but not for that money.

An asset walking away is an overblown issue. I’m sure Boston fans thought the same when Thomas walked away.

At 20+ mil in a few years the same people saying don’t let the asset away will say it was a mistake.
User avatar
TheBoi10
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,284
And1: 6,436
Joined: Apr 13, 2018
 

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#27 » by TheBoi10 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:52 pm

That's an overpay
UneducatedFan86
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,173
And1: 5,537
Joined: Jul 03, 2012
Location: Kawasaki's Bush Party!
     

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#28 » by UneducatedFan86 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:10 am

No thanks. That would be over 50mil for just Fred and Pascal. We'd likely not be able to sign a FA in 2021. There aren't going to be many teams that can just eat Fred's contract and not send back any type of salary. The best outcome is a S&T this season.
User avatar
HighOctane
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,084
And1: 360
Joined: Nov 02, 2006
 

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#29 » by HighOctane » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:10 am

$21M/year is a lot. I'd rather add another $9M/year to grab an actual star player at max money than have FVV at that value. Unless we expect Lowry to retire soon.
Image
User avatar
YogurtProducer
RealGM
Posts: 12,430
And1: 14,394
Joined: Jul 22, 2013
Location: Saskatchewan
       

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#30 » by YogurtProducer » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:32 am

Basketball_Jones wrote:
Ackshun wrote:Not sure how I feel dishing out that much of our cap to a guy that literally **** the bed in the playoffs.

Will he improve ? I dunno. He was out there playing hero ball.

Saw some comparisons statistically to Lillard but..Lillard he is not.


He struggled shooting but overall his numbers certainly don’t qualify as crapping the bed. Maybe you’re thinking of Siakam

FVV was arguably just as bad. Both inefficient but Siakam can be a great defender in all matchups whereas FVV hinders us in the switching department.

FVV is also selfish as ****
User avatar
xAIRNESSx
RealGM
Posts: 13,928
And1: 8,759
Joined: Jan 06, 2005
Location: Mississauga
       

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#31 » by xAIRNESSx » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:45 am

Never had a doubt. It's a fair contract.

I laughed at the 'FVV Appreciation Thread'.
Image
Basketball_Jones
RealGM
Posts: 23,878
And1: 11,854
Joined: Mar 09, 2004
     

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#32 » by Basketball_Jones » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:49 am

YogurtProducer wrote:
Basketball_Jones wrote:
Ackshun wrote:Not sure how I feel dishing out that much of our cap to a guy that literally **** the bed in the playoffs.

Will he improve ? I dunno. He was out there playing hero ball.

Saw some comparisons statistically to Lillard but..Lillard he is not.


He struggled shooting but overall his numbers certainly don’t qualify as crapping the bed. Maybe you’re thinking of Siakam

FVV was arguably just as bad. Both inefficient but Siakam can be a great defender in all matchups whereas FVV hinders us in the switching department.

FVV is also selfish as ****


Siakam shot way worse and should have had an easier time given his physical prowess compared to Fred. Siakam was way more disappointing I won’t throw Fred in there with trashcal
2019 Eastern Conference All Stars

Derozan
Lowry
Ibaka
Valanciunas
Van Vleet
Delon Wright
Lebron
Embiid

There are only 2 teams in the league that rank in the top 6 in offensive and defensive efficiency: the Golden State Warriors and the Toronto Raptors.
User avatar
dacrusha
RealGM
Posts: 12,151
And1: 4,487
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Location: Waiting for Jesse Ventura to show up...
       

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#33 » by dacrusha » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:01 am

$20 million for a player who is sure to be an all star in the very near future is a steal.

Championship heart, defensive disruptor but still learning to run the offence at peak efficiency, there’s no way you let him walk getting cute and penny pinching over a couple million here and there - those are management moves saved for cheap teams like the Wolves, Bulls and Kings.

LOL let FVV walk for nothing and give the reins to Davis - that’s like letting Lowry walk in 2014 and then handing the keys to the offence to Greivis Vasquez.
"If you can’t make a profit, you should sell your team" - Michael Jordan
User avatar
YogurtProducer
RealGM
Posts: 12,430
And1: 14,394
Joined: Jul 22, 2013
Location: Saskatchewan
       

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#34 » by YogurtProducer » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:03 am

Basketball_Jones wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:
Basketball_Jones wrote:
He struggled shooting but overall his numbers certainly don’t qualify as crapping the bed. Maybe you’re thinking of Siakam

FVV was arguably just as bad. Both inefficient but Siakam can be a great defender in all matchups whereas FVV hinders us in the switching department.

FVV is also selfish as ****


Siakam shot way worse and should have had an easier time given his physical prowess compared to Fred. Siakam was way more disappointing I won’t throw Fred in there with trashcal

Pascal 14.9ppg 43TS%
FVV 18.7ppg 46TS%


Let’s not try and get into specifics of who was more trash, but were atrocious in the Celtics series. Not to mention FVV has a history of disappearing in playoff series when his 3 point shot isn’t on fire (Orlando, Philly, half of MIL, and now Boston).

Pascal was still amazing on defence whereas FVV gets exposed against teams like Boston because it forces us to have Lowry guard the 2 which even though he’s decent at, isn’t a preferable matchup. FVV is a switch target for bigger wings to shoot over and he isn’t good enough offensively to make up for it.
User avatar
YogurtProducer
RealGM
Posts: 12,430
And1: 14,394
Joined: Jul 22, 2013
Location: Saskatchewan
       

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#35 » by YogurtProducer » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:03 am

dacrusha wrote:$20 million for a player who is sure to be an all star in the very near future is a steal.

Championship heart, defensive disruptor but still learning to run the offence at peak efficiency, there’s no way you let him walk getting cute and penny pinching over a couple million here and there - those are management moves saved for cheap teams like the Wolves, Bulls and Kings.

LOL let FVV walk for nothing and give the reins to Davis - that’s like letting Lowry walk in 2014 and then handing the keys to the offence to Greivis Vasquez.

Except Lowry was an all nba talent and Vasquez was out of the league within a few years. FVV is no where near Lowry and TD is already better than Greivis
Zeno
RealGM
Posts: 10,857
And1: 9,109
Joined: Jun 06, 2001
   

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#36 » by Zeno » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:20 am

Brogdan's contract was given with the expectation that the cap would be 115 next year and 125 the year after. If the cap remains at 109 for the next two then I suspect that Fred will get something more like 82 million over 4 year rather than 85.
maybe something like approx... 20.5 19 20.5 22. with a player option year 4.
When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?

Please advise….

Dan G.
User avatar
gerrit4
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,785
And1: 2,616
Joined: Mar 10, 2006

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#37 » by gerrit4 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:28 am

IMHO havin Freddy for four years at 21m per, still keeps him as a tradeable contract - especially considering he can play off the ball and is one of the better PG defenders in the league, and also has championship pedigree. Assuming he can give similar production, I’d assume it’s a contract that could easily be offloaded if we get buyers remorse.

But hey, I thought Carroll would be tradeable, so what do I know...
User avatar
OAKLEY_2
RealGM
Posts: 16,256
And1: 6,954
Joined: Dec 19, 2008

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#38 » by OAKLEY_2 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:35 am

Brinbe wrote:masai/bobby and co got some huge decisions to make very shortly.

personally, i'd let him go and go with the young guys.

i really like fred, but there's better uses for that 20+ mill over the next four years.


Just remember you are not paying him Brogdan money because of what he brings as a two guard. You are paying him to be Lowry's successor at point guard. Masai will pay him 21.5 in a heartbeat.
AkelaLoneWolf
RealGM
Posts: 11,393
And1: 7,943
Joined: Apr 09, 2008

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#39 » by AkelaLoneWolf » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:39 am

bboyskinnylegs wrote:should still be a tradeable contract at that level assuming he can maintain his level of play

if he's a starter. but ideally he's a sixth man. difficult to stomach that salary coming off the bench.
"We're the middle children of history. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our great war is a spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives." - Tyler Durden in Fight Club.
AkelaLoneWolf
RealGM
Posts: 11,393
And1: 7,943
Joined: Apr 09, 2008

Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#40 » by AkelaLoneWolf » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:41 am

OAKLEY_2 wrote:
Brinbe wrote:masai/bobby and co got some huge decisions to make very shortly.

personally, i'd let him go and go with the young guys.

i really like fred, but there's better uses for that 20+ mill over the next four years.


Just remember you are not paying him Brogdan money because of what he brings as a two guard. You are paying him to be Lowry's successor at point guard. Masai will pay him 21.5 in a heartbeat.

except he isn't. he's best playing off the ball.
"We're the middle children of history. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our great war is a spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives." - Tyler Durden in Fight Club.

Return to Toronto Raptors