RealGM

Ackshun wrote:

Basketball_Jones wrote:

Ackshun wrote:Not sure how I feel dishing out that much of our cap to a guy that literally **** the bed in the playoffs.

Will he improve ? I dunno. He was out there playing hero ball.

Saw some comparisons statistically to Lillard but..Lillard he is not.

He struggled shooting but overall his numbers certainly don’t qualify as crapping the bed. Maybe you’re thinking of Siakam

19ppg on 17 shots for both rounds.

47-135 in the Boston series for a whopping 35%. Dont care whatever advanced stats get thrown at me here. When you shoot the ball that much, and fail that many times, you have shat the bed.

And yes, more than one player can **** the bed.

Also in the words of Bargani, its basketball. Not rebound ball. Or PER ball. Or VORP ball.

Lol. Ok. Seriously. That's a lot of money.

So basically you are saying he shat the bed based on his shooting percentage in one playoff series. Go check Kemba’s numbers with FVV guarding him.

We don’t win the chip with out him. Period.

There are not many high leverage 3/D role players out there that can deliver the way he has.

Makes me so sad that our own fan base cannot appreciate what we have.

If the cap goes down 10-15% then this is crazy.

Fred is due something like 15 mil if the cap goes down.

Also this premier position is a fallacy. It’s the deepest position in the league.

Nearly every team will have huge cap space next off-season. If we need to make room to sign Giannis or someone else he would be a positive trade asset even at 20+ million. 18/6/4 with excellent defense, entering his prime years, championship experience and top tier locker room guy. FVV is a fringe all-star level (in the East) player and plenty of teams would love to have a younger vet to help their prospects develop.

No brainer to re-sign him. Terrible asset management to let him walk over a few million premium.

Fred was arguably our second best player last year behind Lowry. 4/85M is a fair deal assuming the cap stays flat (big assumption). Brogdon comp is a good one.

bluerap23 wrote:

Ackshun wrote:

Basketball_Jones wrote:
He struggled shooting but overall his numbers certainly don’t qualify as crapping the bed. Maybe you’re thinking of Siakam

19ppg on 17 shots for both rounds.

47-135 in the Boston series for a whopping 35%. Dont care whatever advanced stats get thrown at me here. When you shoot the ball that much, and fail that many times, you have shat the bed.

And yes, more than one player can **** the bed.

Also in the words of Bargani, its basketball. Not rebound ball. Or PER ball. Or VORP ball.

Lol. Ok. Seriously. That's a lot of money.

So basically you are saying he shat the bed based on his shooting percentage in one playoff series. Go check Kemba’s numbers with FVV guarding him.

We don’t win the chip with out him. Period.

There are not many high leverage 3/D role players out there that can deliver the way he has.

Makes me so sad that our own fan base cannot appreciate what we have.

Well, I have other reasons for holding my opinion regarding FVV. I think he does a ton of great things for us and yeah he was super clutch for the Kawhi run. But he was literally our 6th scoring option back then (and paid like one). And yea, he locked up Curry but prior, was unplayable against Philly.

Anyhow we are all entitled to our opinions. Paying FVV that much $ is an error in my personal opinion. He isn't Brogdon.

Also, I'm not saying I don't want him back. Just saying the price is steep considering.

Ackshun wrote:

bluerap23 wrote:

Ackshun wrote:
19ppg on 17 shots for both rounds.

47-135 in the Boston series for a whopping 35%. Dont care whatever advanced stats get thrown at me here. When you shoot the ball that much, and fail that many times, you have shat the bed.

And yes, more than one player can **** the bed.

Also in the words of Bargani, its basketball. Not rebound ball. Or PER ball. Or VORP ball.

Lol. Ok. Seriously. That's a lot of money.

So basically you are saying he shat the bed based on his shooting percentage in one playoff series. Go check Kemba’s numbers with FVV guarding him.

We don’t win the chip with out him. Period.

There are not many high leverage 3/D role players out there that can deliver the way he has.

Makes me so sad that our own fan base cannot appreciate what we have.

Well, I have other reasons for holding my opinion regarding FVV. I think he does a ton of great things for us and yeah he was super clutch for the Kawhi run. But he was literally our 6th scoring option back then (and paid like one). And yea, he locked up Curry but prior, was unplayable against Philly.

Anyhow we are all entitled to our opinions. Paying FVV that much $ is an error in my personal opinion. He isn't Brogdon.

Also, I'm not saying I don't want him back. Just saying the price is steep considering.

Yep.

He is an elite three point shooter who doesn’t have much to his offensive game and plays good D.

He is easy to shut down if he’s your 1-3 best player but looks great in that 4-5 role. His stats this year don’t do justice in terms of what he is. At the end of the day playoffs is what matters and he did exactly what many of us thought against Boston which was look lost against length, bad at finishing, little to no mid range, and couldn’t hit the three when he had to create for himself.

Sure as the 4-6 best player on your team he’s great, but do you pay that guy 20+ with a cap going down?

I like Fred but not for that money.

An asset walking away is an overblown issue. I’m sure Boston fans thought the same when Thomas walked away.

At 20+ mil in a few years the same people saying don’t let the asset away will say it was a mistake.

That's an overpay

No thanks. That would be over 50mil for just Fred and Pascal. We'd likely not be able to sign a FA in 2021. There aren't going to be many teams that can just eat Fred's contract and not send back any type of salary. The best outcome is a S&T this season.

$21M/year is a lot. I'd rather add another $9M/year to grab an actual star player at max money than have FVV at that value. Unless we expect Lowry to retire soon.

Basketball_Jones wrote:

Ackshun wrote:Not sure how I feel dishing out that much of our cap to a guy that literally **** the bed in the playoffs.

Will he improve ? I dunno. He was out there playing hero ball.

Saw some comparisons statistically to Lillard but..Lillard he is not.

He struggled shooting but overall his numbers certainly don’t qualify as crapping the bed. Maybe you’re thinking of Siakam

FVV was arguably just as bad. Both inefficient but Siakam can be a great defender in all matchups whereas FVV hinders us in the switching department.

FVV is also selfish as ****

Never had a doubt. It's a fair contract.

I laughed at the 'FVV Appreciation Thread'.

YogurtProducer wrote:

Basketball_Jones wrote:

Ackshun wrote:Not sure how I feel dishing out that much of our cap to a guy that literally **** the bed in the playoffs.

Will he improve ? I dunno. He was out there playing hero ball.

Saw some comparisons statistically to Lillard but..Lillard he is not.

He struggled shooting but overall his numbers certainly don’t qualify as crapping the bed. Maybe you’re thinking of Siakam

FVV was arguably just as bad. Both inefficient but Siakam can be a great defender in all matchups whereas FVV hinders us in the switching department.

FVV is also selfish as ****

Siakam shot way worse and should have had an easier time given his physical prowess compared to Fred. Siakam was way more disappointing I won’t throw Fred in there with trashcal

$20 million for a player who is sure to be an all star in the very near future is a steal.

Championship heart, defensive disruptor but still learning to run the offence at peak efficiency, there’s no way you let him walk getting cute and penny pinching over a couple million here and there - those are management moves saved for cheap teams like the Wolves, Bulls and Kings.

LOL let FVV walk for nothing and give the reins to Davis - that’s like letting Lowry walk in 2014 and then handing the keys to the offence to Greivis Vasquez.

Basketball_Jones wrote:

YogurtProducer wrote:

Basketball_Jones wrote:
He struggled shooting but overall his numbers certainly don’t qualify as crapping the bed. Maybe you’re thinking of Siakam

FVV was arguably just as bad. Both inefficient but Siakam can be a great defender in all matchups whereas FVV hinders us in the switching department.

FVV is also selfish as ****

Siakam shot way worse and should have had an easier time given his physical prowess compared to Fred. Siakam was way more disappointing I won’t throw Fred in there with trashcal

Pascal 14.9ppg 43TS%
FVV 18.7ppg 46TS%


Let’s not try and get into specifics of who was more trash, but were atrocious in the Celtics series. Not to mention FVV has a history of disappearing in playoff series when his 3 point shot isn’t on fire (Orlando, Philly, half of MIL, and now Boston).

Pascal was still amazing on defence whereas FVV gets exposed against teams like Boston because it forces us to have Lowry guard the 2 which even though he’s decent at, isn’t a preferable matchup. FVV is a switch target for bigger wings to shoot over and he isn’t good enough offensively to make up for it.

dacrusha wrote:$20 million for a player who is sure to be an all star in the very near future is a steal.

Championship heart, defensive disruptor but still learning to run the offence at peak efficiency, there’s no way you let him walk getting cute and penny pinching over a couple million here and there - those are management moves saved for cheap teams like the Wolves, Bulls and Kings.

LOL let FVV walk for nothing and give the reins to Davis - that’s like letting Lowry walk in 2014 and then handing the keys to the offence to Greivis Vasquez.

Except Lowry was an all nba talent and Vasquez was out of the league within a few years. FVV is no where near Lowry and TD is already better than Greivis

Brogdan's contract was given with the expectation that the cap would be 115 next year and 125 the year after. If the cap remains at 109 for the next two then I suspect that Fred will get something more like 82 million over 4 year rather than 85.
maybe something like approx... 20.5 19 20.5 22. with a player option year 4.

IMHO havin Freddy for four years at 21m per, still keeps him as a tradeable contract - especially considering he can play off the ball and is one of the better PG defenders in the league, and also has championship pedigree. Assuming he can give similar production, I’d assume it’s a contract that could easily be offloaded if we get buyers remorse.

But hey, I thought Carroll would be tradeable, so what do I know...

Brinbe wrote:masai/bobby and co got some huge decisions to make very shortly.

personally, i'd let him go and go with the young guys.

i really like fred, but there's better uses for that 20+ mill over the next four years.

Just remember you are not paying him Brogdan money because of what he brings as a two guard. You are paying him to be Lowry's successor at point guard. Masai will pay him 21.5 in a heartbeat.

bboyskinnylegs wrote:should still be a tradeable contract at that level assuming he can maintain his level of play

if he's a starter. but ideally he's a sixth man. difficult to stomach that salary coming off the bench.

OAKLEY_2 wrote:

Brinbe wrote:masai/bobby and co got some huge decisions to make very shortly.

personally, i'd let him go and go with the young guys.

i really like fred, but there's better uses for that 20+ mill over the next four years.

Just remember you are not paying him Brogdan money because of what he brings as a two guard. You are paying him to be Lowry's successor at point guard. Masai will pay him 21.5 in a heartbeat.

except he isn't. he's best playing off the ball.