RealGM

gerrit4 wrote:IMHO havin Freddy for four years at 21m per, still keeps him as a tradeable contract - especially considering he can play off the ball and is one of the better PG defenders in the league, and also has championship pedigree. Assuming he can give similar production, I’d assume it’s a contract that could easily be offloaded if we get buyers remorse.

But hey, I thought Carroll would be tradeable, so what do I know...

FVV posted 8/3/2 during our championship run.

dacrusha wrote:$20 million for a player who is sure to be an all star in the very near future is a steal.

Championship heart, defensive disruptor but still learning to run the offence at peak efficiency, there’s no way you let him walk getting cute and penny pinching over a couple million here and there - those are management moves saved for cheap teams like the Wolves, Bulls and Kings.

LOL let FVV walk for nothing and give the reins to Davis - that’s like letting Lowry walk in 2014 and then handing the keys to the offence to Greivis Vasquez.

TD isn't even a point guard. I'm really confused why people would even bring him up in this conversation. TD's role competition is with Norm. Completely different skill-sets.

Anyways, FVV is elite in the areas that Nurse cares about the most out of that position - he's very disruptive defensively and is very strong executing schemes on both ends of the court. His intelligence on the court is what forces Nurse to keep him on for ~40 mins while people are blindly focused on how well he's shooting on any given night.

It's a no-brainer to re-sign him at that money, which is why it's guaranteed to happen quickly if not with the Raps.

That would be good asset management if Kyles eventual replacement is paid 12 million less. If we could get Kyle back at Freddy’s current salary of 9 million for as long as he remains playable, that would give us our point guard rotation for about 10 million less than it currently is.
The Brogdan contract would be ideal for both sides as it gives the Raptors a asset that could fit into most blockbuster trades and Freddy takes a slight discount and gives the team more roster flexibility to remain on a winner.

Brogdan-level contract for Van Vleet IMO is still manageable. You always want to avoid losing talent for nothing, especially for a team like Raptors that always have hard time attracting free agents. As long as the contract is reasonably tradeable, I think you have to go for it. Ujiri has shown that he's not afraid to trade a guy he just resigned if there's a trade to be made out there.

However, anything meaningfully higher than that, you'd have to seriously consider cutting your losses with uncertainty over the cap numbers in the near future and that might be what a team like Knicks will be angling for.

People who say this is an overpay out to lunch. If players at similar level get that kind of money and there are multiple teams out there willing to pay that money, that's his market value. Of course, right now, it's all speculation so we'll see what happens.

Also, if Raptors make moves to go all-in on 2021 free agency, chances are we'll be sorely disappointed. You want to have the ability to go for it if opportunities present themselves with the likes of Giannis but you also have to be realistic here, realize that chances are still very low, and plan accordingly.

Steelo Green wrote:

Ackshun wrote:

bluerap23 wrote:
So basically you are saying he shat the bed based on his shooting percentage in one playoff series. Go check Kemba’s numbers with FVV guarding him.

We don’t win the chip with out him. Period.

There are not many high leverage 3/D role players out there that can deliver the way he has.

Makes me so sad that our own fan base cannot appreciate what we have.

Well, I have other reasons for holding my opinion regarding FVV. I think he does a ton of great things for us and yeah he was super clutch for the Kawhi run. But he was literally our 6th scoring option back then (and paid like one). And yea, he locked up Curry but prior, was unplayable against Philly.

Anyhow we are all entitled to our opinions. Paying FVV that much $ is an error in my personal opinion. He isn't Brogdon.

Also, I'm not saying I don't want him back. Just saying the price is steep considering.

Yep.

He is an elite three point shooter who doesn’t have much to his offensive game and plays good D.

He is easy to shut down if he’s your 1-3 best player but looks great in that 4-5 role. His stats this year don’t do justice in terms of what he is. At the end of the day playoffs is what matters and he did exactly what many of us thought against Boston which was look lost against length, bad at finishing, little to no mid range, and couldn’t hit the three when he had to create for himself.

Sure as the 4-6 best player on your team he’s great, but do you pay that guy 20+ with a cap going down?

I like Fred but not for that money.

An asset walking away is an overblown issue. I’m sure Boston fans thought the same when Thomas walked away.

At 20+ mil in a few years the same people saying don’t let the asset away will say it was a mistake.

Um Thomas didn’t walk away he was traded away for Kyrie Irving. Good basketball executives don’t let assets walk for nothing.

The comparison to IT is ridiculous for other reasons as well.

fvv v. bogdanovic...who is the better fit long term

I'm sorry but I still don't think FVV is worth $20+ mill/yr. He greatly benefits from playing next to Lowry and I also believe Gasol's bball IQ/passing ability helped him seem to take more "steps". I personally question his effectiveness when those 2 are removed which will be the case much sooner than later when Marc is already gone n Kyle won't be too much longer himself

If Knicks are willing to trade for a max player in Chris Paul at crazy salary what makes people think that they wont offer 25 Mil to Fred if they dont get CP3. And if its a 5 mil difference i think Fred leaves , which is fine cause i sure as hell dont want Raps paying that amount to him.

I would let Fred go and draft Winston with our second rounder. I legitmately think that Lowry is the reason Fred is considered a good player. Winston could probably hold that down.

25 million for FVV is way too much. He wouldn't bring as much value back with that kind of contract and I would rather take a chance on Oladipo.

I am hoping the Raptors go for Reed and Winston in the draft. Lowry would be great for a younger player to learn from next season. Next season will probably be Lowry's last in productivity.

His dad

“He’s not a superstar or nothing like that, but Fred is hell of a f---ing ballplayer. He’s a true basketball player,” Danforth said. "He’s a throwback to back in the day, to a guy like Dennis Johnson from the Celtics, those kind of guys who are unheralded.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-raptors-fred-vanvleet-20201014-gn77zjyswfdhnenxbc274eefbm-story.html%3foutputType=amp

bluerap23 wrote:

Steelo Green wrote:

Ackshun wrote:
Well, I have other reasons for holding my opinion regarding FVV. I think he does a ton of great things for us and yeah he was super clutch for the Kawhi run. But he was literally our 6th scoring option back then (and paid like one). And yea, he locked up Curry but prior, was unplayable against Philly.

Anyhow we are all entitled to our opinions. Paying FVV that much $ is an error in my personal opinion. He isn't Brogdon.

Also, I'm not saying I don't want him back. Just saying the price is steep considering.

Yep.

He is an elite three point shooter who doesn’t have much to his offensive game and plays good D.

He is easy to shut down if he’s your 1-3 best player but looks great in that 4-5 role. His stats this year don’t do justice in terms of what he is. At the end of the day playoffs is what matters and he did exactly what many of us thought against Boston which was look lost against length, bad at finishing, little to no mid range, and couldn’t hit the three when he had to create for himself.

Sure as the 4-6 best player on your team he’s great, but do you pay that guy 20+ with a cap going down?

I like Fred but not for that money.

An asset walking away is an overblown issue. I’m sure Boston fans thought the same when Thomas walked away.

At 20+ mil in a few years the same people saying don’t let the asset away will say it was a mistake.

Um Thomas didn’t walk away he was traded away for Kyrie Irving. Good basketball executives don’t let assets walk for nothing.

The comparison to IT is ridiculous for other reasons as well.

Who is talking about that, he wanted to be extended and they said no, and rightfully so.

IT was an MVP candidate.

Plenty of executives have let assets walk for nothing that aren’t worth it.

Fred at 20+ mil means you can trade him for negative assets, similar when we traded Demarre.

The cap going down and this deal would be horrible.

I'd be fine with that. But nothing higher.

Guys,

Nobody in their right minds is taking 18 mil with a season like Fred had. Come on.

Raps in 4 wrote:I'd be fine with that. But nothing higher.

Agreed 4yr/85mil is literally the MAX of how far we should go. Wouldn't even do 22mil AAV.

Needs to be less than that honestly

The “source” is most likely his agent trying to drive up the price, tbh.

Steelo Green wrote:

bluerap23 wrote:

Steelo Green wrote:Yep.

He is an elite three point shooter who doesn’t have much to his offensive game and plays good D.

He is easy to shut down if he’s your 1-3 best player but looks great in that 4-5 role. His stats this year don’t do justice in terms of what he is. At the end of the day playoffs is what matters and he did exactly what many of us thought against Boston which was look lost against length, bad at finishing, little to no mid range, and couldn’t hit the three when he had to create for himself.

Sure as the 4-6 best player on your team he’s great, but do you pay that guy 20+ with a cap going down?

I like Fred but not for that money.

An asset walking away is an overblown issue. I’m sure Boston fans thought the same when Thomas walked away.

At 20+ mil in a few years the same people saying don’t let the asset away will say it was a mistake.

Um Thomas didn’t walk away he was traded away for Kyrie Irving. Good basketball executives don’t let assets walk for nothing.

The comparison to IT is ridiculous for other reasons as well.

Who is talking about that, he wanted to be extended and they said no, and rightfully so.

IT was an MVP candidate.

Plenty of executives have let assets walk for nothing that aren’t worth it.

Fred at 20+ mil means you can trade him for negative assets, similar when we traded Demarre.

The cap going down and this deal would be horrible.

Dude, you are talking about that. You are the one who brought up Thomas when he wasn't even a viable example due to obvious reasons. The biggest one being Ainge didn't let him walk away for nothing; never mind the fact that Isiah Thomas was a damaged goods coming off career-altering injury. And you can't even admit you are wrong when you get fact checked. And you wonder why you are considered to be hatin' troll.

The least you can do when talking about "plenty" of execs letting assets walk away for nothing is to prove your point with some actual examples especially when your one shining example was proven to be wrong.

I think you pay him. If you had to move him later, you could. Think $17-18m is pretty much starter money and he’s a good starter.

You need to pay extra when you are Raptors.

MixxSRC wrote:You need to pay extra when you are Raptors.

Not really. The problem is that we’re in competition with turd squads who actually would have to overpay to get him.