would you be okay with a rebuild?

[Parataxis]

We're legitimate contenders every year. We're playing fun, exciting basketball. We have our future draft picks, young players under contract/control, and multiple all-stars.

Why would we want to walk away from that? We're set up for both the present and the future.

***

On the other hand, if we go into rebuild mode, we could come out looking like anything! Even a team set up for the future!

Literally the best case scenario in a rebuild is looking like we do now.

[Bruin]

How has tanking and rebuilding gone for Sacramento and Minnesota? Look at what happened with Philly they were supposed to be the next top dogs of the league with their “Trust the progress” bull and see where that got them

[Clutch0z24]

This thread is all based on how good Siakam/OG/FVV (If Resigned) can become together or if we can land a top tier free agent in 2021.....If these 3 can turn into top players in the NBA or lead our team to being real contenders every year, Or we get a real true superstar then no need for rebuilding....

But if Siakam continues to look like he did in this years playoffs, Lowry gets old, No stars come here and we end up getting just an average player in 2021 then we would have no choice but to rebuild and try and get a real superstar in the draft...

If your a team that can't grab a real superstar via free agency and the players you have can't get you over the hump you really have no choice but to play the draft or your just stuck in no mans land and being a 4th seed and bounced in the 2nd round every year to teams who have real superstar type players

[C_Money]

No, and its not happening

[LBJKB24MJ23]

How has tanking and rebuilding gone for Sacramento and Minnesota? Look at what happened with Philly they were supposed to be the next top dogs of the league with their “Trust the progress” bull and see where that got them

I would be most certainly be comfortable with a rebuild with Masai at the helm. if he decides this team needs to rebuild , he'll do it. with our scouting and the eyes of Masai and Webster. these guys know talent.

umm Philly actually made the right moves up until last year I would say. They let go of Redick and Butler, but their rebuild was pretty successful. if They kept Butler and Redick instead of Tobias or traded Simmons, they would be looking fairly superior. that is something Webster or Masai would have done.

Thats the difference between Sacramento and Minny. they don't have Masai or our scouting department. Remember, we have Masai, Webster, scouting department, and Nick **** Nurse. the guys who picked Siakam, OG, and FVV out fo nowhere. if the Raptors went into rebuild mode, Raptors would probably look like the next Golden State Warriors or OKC Thunder prior to Harden getting shipped out. home grown top tier talent.


and remember, as much as players that played for the Toronto saying "they love the city" - no superstar free agent has signed with the Raptors, all this considering restrictive flights and borders closing as well working against the Raptors.

[v1n5anity]

Nope. We got the pieces to go far. Just need a Giannis-type of player to take us up a notch...and Siakam to play like the 18-19 version. We have the best GM & Head Coach so no need for a rebuild.

[rrdjutriurt]

Heck no, rebuilds suck! There is no advantage to becoming an irrelevant franchise for years on end and it only sours outside perception of the franchise for infinite amounts of time. Massai would never stick around to see us dump assets in order to stink the joint out for 5 years in order to get some decent draft picks. You spend all kinds of time developing rookies and by the time they reach all-star level you end up losing them to free agency anyways.

Relevance matters in the NBA. Always being in the hunt is far more advantageous to building your team then being put into the Knicks type of incompetence persona around the league. The ability to build a winner from a competitive team is what really good general managers are for. That's why we have Massai and Bobby and that's why we will win again!

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Heck no, rebuilds suck! There is no advantage to becoming an irrelevant franchise for years on end and it only sours outside perception of the franchise for infinite amounts of time. Massai would never stick around to see us dump assets in order to stink the joint out for 5 years in order to get some decent draft picks. You spend all kinds of time developing rookies and by the time they reach all-star level you end up losing them to free agency anyways.

Relevance matters in the NBA. Always being in the hunt is far more advantageous to building your team then being put into the Knicks type of incompetence persona around the league. The ability to build a winner from a competitive team is what really good general managers are for. That's why we have Massai and Bobby and that's why we will win again!

Toronto isn't relevant enough. they made a last ditch effort with Kawhi by trading a player from our last rebuild, Demar. we traded all our lottery picks away to win a chip - I would say the Toronto rebuild worked, don't you think?

[Syd-TK3]

I'd actually have no problem with a rebuild I really want to see what Masai can do with a high lottery pick and to watch some young talent grow. But it's impossible for us to be bad enough to get high picks so you'd have to find a way to turn Lowry and something else into that

[LBJKB24MJ23]

This thread is all based on how good Siakam/OG/FVV (If Resigned) can become together or if we can land a top tier free agent in 2021.....If these 3 can turn into top players in the NBA or lead our team to being real contenders every year, Or we get a real true superstar then no need for rebuilding....

But if Siakam continues to look like he did in this years playoffs, Lowry gets old, No stars come here and we end up getting just an average player in 2021 then we would have no choice but to rebuild and try and get a real superstar in the draft...

If your a team that can't grab a real superstar via free agency and the players you have can't get you over the hump you really have no choice but to play the draft or your just stuck in no mans land and being a 4th seed and bounced in the 2nd round every year to teams who have real superstar type players

If the Raptors want to retool for a new championship, Siakam comes back next year with a jumper and handles, OG with handles, and FVV stays being steady, then ya i think Raptors are in a good position for a FA signing. Siakam has to be voted into the all star game every year and continue to make another 2nd all-nba team to entice another FA to sign with the Raptors. OG making all-NBA defensive team would bolster Raptors chances for sure.

I think FVV, who we saw as a starter last year, is pretty much his ceiling like 18-20ppg, 8apg, 4 rpg. 40% 3 point shooting or something like that?

[Lateral Quicks]

Definitely not. Rebuilds can take half a decade, and even then you're not guaranteed success.

Perennial playoff team like the Spurs - that should be the goal.

[KrazyP]

But if Siakam continues to look like he did in this years playoffs, Lowry gets old, No stars come here and we end up getting just an average player in 2021 then we would have no choice but to rebuild and try and get a real superstar in the draft...

If your a team that can't grab a real superstar via free agency and the players you have can't get you over the hump you really have no choice but to play the draft or your just stuck in no mans land and being a 4th seed and bounced in the 2nd round every year to teams who have real superstar type players

How can anybody have this opinion after watching this team rise to a championship from 2013 to 2019? What high draft picks did Ujiri tank/rebuild for exactly? What "real superstar" did he land through free agency or the draft?

Posts like yours are giving me 2013-2014 deja-vu. The rebuild through the draft movement was strong that season. Tank World Order had completely taken over realgm.

Lets reflect back on that time as a history lesson.

1. The best player taken in the draft that everybody wanted to tank for that season was picked in the second round - Nikola Jokic

2. Outside of Embiid (who's still hasn't accomplished anything) the draft lottery that year produced NOTHING of significance. Wiggins, JParker, Exum, Smart, Gordon, TJWarren, Randle, Stauskas, Saric, LaVine, McDermott, Randle, E.Payton,

3. The pre-Kawhi Raptors had more success (both Regular season and playoffs) than any lottery team from that year.....(The Cavs being the only exception as Lebron decided to sign with them as a free agent).

Strong management and luck = championships....not tanking for high draft picks.

[TheAlchemist]

We can still add talent to our team.

We can sign DeRozan or grab a star like Oladipo/Jrue Holiday and add them to our team.

Gasol was diminishing returns.

Ibaka is a great solid vet, but I'm not going to lose sleep losing him.

I agree with others. Why tank?

[Clutch0z24]

But if Siakam continues to look like he did in this years playoffs, Lowry gets old, No stars come here and we end up getting just an average player in 2021 then we would have no choice but to rebuild and try and get a real superstar in the draft...

If your a team that can't grab a real superstar via free agency and the players you have can't get you over the hump you really have no choice but to play the draft or your just stuck in no mans land and being a 4th seed and bounced in the 2nd round every year to teams who have real superstar type players

How can anybody have this opinion after watching this team rise to a championship from 2013 to 2019? What high draft picks did Ujiri tank/rebuild for exactly? What "real superstar" did he land through free agency or the draft?

Posts like yours are giving me 2013-2014 deja-vu. The rebuild through the draft movement was strong that season. The Tank World Order Revoluton had completely taken over realgm.

Lets reflect back on that time as a history lesson.

1. The best player taken in the draft that everybody wanted to tank for that season was picked in the second round - Nikola Jokic

2. Outside of Embiid (who's still hasn't accomplished anything) the draft lottery that year produced NOTHING of significance. Wiggins, JParker, Exum, Smart, Gordon, TJWarren, Randle, Stauskas, Saric, LaVine, McDermott, Randle, E.Payton,

3. The pre-Kawhi Raptors had more success (both Regular season and playoffs) than any lottery team from that year.....(The Cavs being the only exception as Lebron decided to sign with them as a free agent).

Strong management and luck = championships....not tanking for high draft picks.

This is just the obvious thing to do if your team is not good enough the ONLY way you get a true REAL superstar is through the Draft...Thats where you find talent if your not getting a Superstar free agent....

Its a easy take to make lets be real here ....Raptors from 2013-2018 were never REAL threats or even close to being a real Championship team....Yes we were competitive and had good regular season success...But did we sign a free agent them years? Nope we got DeMarre Carroll ...

Masai built this team through the draft weather you like it or NOT ...Masai grabbed guys with late 20s and 2nd rounders and undrafted guys....Mostly all our good players we have atm are guys taking guess where?...IN the draft....

Look at the Celtics who just beat us they beat us cause they played the draft well with the picks they got and grabbed Tatum/Brown who were just a little bit better then what we had....

We won in 2018-2019 cause we got really really lucky in that Kawhi who demanded a trade to one of the LA teams at the time was playing for the Spurs who refused to trade him to a rival LA team....And tbh i feel Pop and the spurs always had respect for the Raptors and sent him here for DeRozan and oh another draft pick in Poeltl ....

Now if we dont end up getting a top level free agent and or Siakam doesn't shows he can become a superstar we would end up being a 2nd round team at best....If we are not bringing in upgraded talent in the Free agency how are we getting real talent in? that can put us past teams like Celtics/Nets/Heat/76ers/Bucks (If they keep Giannis) ....

Yes we have good players but atm Lowry is our only elite player we have atm ...Yes Siakam is great but he showed us this playoffs he will take a while to become elite....Once Lowry is gone which he only has a few years left If Siakam doesn't get on Tatums or a top playoff performer we would need him to become we would just be an average team in the East and if you like being average then by all means keep it going...

For me i would rather try to get a REAL playoff performer and a superstar then just be a 50 win regular season 2nd round exit every year type team

[Clay Davis]

I'm okay with retooling and allowing for an anomalous tanking season like the Spurs had to Timmy D.

Sustained rebuilds don't generally tend to succeed. I mean, c'mon guys, how many years of mediocrity do you realistically think it'll take for us to lose our 50+ win, gritty, hard-to-play-against culture? It wouldn't take more than three seasons.

[Anticon]

retool on the fly is probably a more apt term lol.

bottoming out is never a good decision imo and i've seen it happen here during the babs and bc era. doesn't work

This exactly. Most teams in the east that have tanked intentionally have barely improved or gotten worse - Chicago, New York, Orlando, Atlanta. Philly is the exception but none of us are willing to sit through 5 years of that and they're not even that good anyway.

Masai and co have created an atmosphere here and culture that needs winning and competitiveness to work. Bottoming out is only something you do if a season is beyond reach and it makes sense to rest guys.

If you have an off year like Miami last year you aim to get a steal with a high lottery pick and develop them properly.

[Clutch0z24]

But if Siakam continues to look like he did in this years playoffs, Lowry gets old, No stars come here and we end up getting just an average player in 2021 then we would have no choice but to rebuild and try and get a real superstar in the draft...

If your a team that can't grab a real superstar via free agency and the players you have can't get you over the hump you really have no choice but to play the draft or your just stuck in no mans land and being a 4th seed and bounced in the 2nd round every year to teams who have real superstar type players

How can anybody have this opinion after watching this team rise to a championship from 2013 to 2019? What high draft picks did Ujiri tank/rebuild for exactly? What "real superstar" did he land through free agency or the draft?

Posts like yours are giving me 2013-2014 deja-vu. The rebuild through the draft movement was strong that season. Tank World Order had completely taken over realgm.

Lets reflect back on that time as a history lesson.

1. The best player taken in the draft that everybody wanted to tank for that season was picked in the second round - Nikola Jokic

2. Outside of Embiid (who's still hasn't accomplished anything) the draft lottery that year produced NOTHING of significance. Wiggins, JParker, Exum, Smart, Gordon, TJWarren, Randle, Stauskas, Saric, LaVine, McDermott, Randle, E.Payton,

3. The pre-Kawhi Raptors had more success (both Regular season and playoffs) than any lottery team from that year.....(The Cavs being the only exception as Lebron decided to sign with them as a free agent).

Strong management and luck = championships....not tanking for high draft picks.

Lets go through our past teams and when we were successfull....

Vince Carter/T-Mac = Playoff team
VC Alone = Playoff team

Chris Bosh=Was our best player but not much success due to lack of talent around him...

Lets look at that team from 2013-2018 you said...
DeMar=9th Pick, JV=5th Pick, Ross=8th Pick, Lowry Trade.....That was our squad for many years and rest of guys were role players...We built that team as well through the draft....We were never real threats to win but we had good success in winning games...

I do agree that management can win you championships which we have ...But they don't play the games...Its up to the players to perform at the end of the day....If we lose out on Giannis idk how we will get better then what we were this year....I really feel this year was our last chance to really compete for a championship which we lost to Celtics...

We will most likely lose 2 of Gasol/Ibaka/FVV and resign one of them...Try and make a run at Giannis and if that fails idk how you expect us to become a real threat to the title ...Yes i like being competitive but i would rather have a real shot for a title then just winning meaningless games...And i think our best bet is getting a generational talent through the draft...

Giannis is our next best hope just fingers crossed we get him

[Anticon]

If your a team that can't grab a real superstar via free agency and the players you have can't get you over the hump you really have no choice but to play the draft or your just stuck in no mans land and being a 4th seed and bounced in the 2nd round every year to teams who have real superstar type players

There's nothing incorrect about what you're saying...but it's a bridge you cross when you come to it. We will all know when that moment comes. You can also find a lot of value in the late lottery in the draft which doesn't require a full tank.

And let's also not pretend that getting into the lottery is the pathway to a 50 win team. There are far more examples of that being wishful thinking than actually working (and Boston is not a relevant example).

[dhackett1565]

Yeah, the whole idea is to sign Giannis to add to that youth, with Pascal and maybe FVV in for Powell.

The team is not going to trade their prime/vet good players (Lowry, Siakam) to actively get worse and add draft assets. There's not much point in considering it. Their plans have been pretty obvious for a while now - stay competitive to make a good FA pitch in summer 2021 to Giannis or another very good player.

The best free agent we have signed is Hedo

and I find it interesting how everyone that thinks we are getting giannis just assumes, lowry will take a lot less money...like mid level money. this is a guy who was threatening to hold out just last off-season if he didn't get 35 million. idk we will see

Anyone who assumes that is being silly. First, we won't have the MLE to offer Lowry. Second, if we get Giannis, we likely lose Lowry, unless we lose Fred this summer (in which case we can peg some of the money that would go to Fred to Lowry instead).

I doubt there was much truth to the rumour of him threatening to hold out. He got 30M. And it was a perfectly reasonable price point (lower than I expected in fact) to buy a single year extension considering the Raptors were pretty transparently looking to move past him in 2021 and had no real cap on their spending for one season when that negotiation took place. That said, it is a very long shot (not impossible, but exceedingly unlikely) to think that Lowry would stay cheap, even with a promise of a golden parachute sort of deal thereafter.

[Badonkadonk]

The thing I appreciate about this management group is that they can pivot to whatever direction makes sense based on the current roster and market conditions.

It's completely foolish to bank on Giannis coming - I'm sure they'll take their shot, but I'm also sure they're prepared for every scenario depending on how things play out, how players continue to develop etc.

There's no such thing as a true "rebuild" anymore.