Hmmm.. so do we believe in Masai..

[omar36]

masai is focused soley on next year. its going to be giannis or bust

I dont think we get him tbh and when that happens, masai will have to make tough decisions.theres a reason why masai drafted flynn, a capable player ready to play now and not some young project. I think masai beleives with giannis hes set for years bc we would have a legit mvp with a great supporting cast and a fantastic coach.

however again, when he signs and if he does before the season, we are in trouble. a core of fvv/pascal/og arengt anything more then a 2nd round exit

[bboyskinnylegs]

I like that we have a plan we're trying to execute on and we are 100% committed to it despite how the optics might look. Remember when BC helped setup the Heat for 2010 FA because he had to wheel and deal his way out of the JO trade?

[ratul]

This is about the repeater tax. We were effed with the repeater tax and paying pascal 30 million

[2019nbachamps]

What is the most we could've offered Serge without paying the luxury tax?

[Caped Crusader]

You first said Siakam’s contract had nothing to do with us not signing ibaka because of bird rights, and now you say Siakam would not have accepted a lower contract. Which is it?

The point is that siakam’s contract, once again, is the reason we don’t have ibaka. The max contract for siakam was not only devastating, it was an extension and even at 4/100, we still have room to sign ibaka.

Masai is a wizard but that siakam contract will hurt us badly. And already has. Your point about bird rights is not correct

Siakam's contract had zero impact on Ibaka.

The Raps didnt want to offer Ibaka multiple years to keep him in order to preserve cap space for 2021.

The Raps don't have any chance of landing an impact player without having a solid core in place and that core includes a signed Siakam.

This makes no sense. Siakams contract is precisely the main reason we are cap constrained in 2021 and could not keep ibaka. Offer siakam 4/100 which I think he takes given it is an extension and we still keep ibaka.

I love Masai but he can make mistakes. He did give javale mcgee 60 million at one point.

Given that Ibaka took a 2 year deal with a player option to join a contender, I think his focus wasn't primarily about money which we still could have offered over LA albeit it would have been a one year deal. Him not re-signing in Toronto has nothing to do with Siakam's contract.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[OakleyDokely]

You first said Siakam’s contract had nothing to do with us not signing ibaka because of bird rights, and now you say Siakam would not have accepted a lower contract. Which is it?

The point is that siakam’s contract, once again, is the reason we don’t have ibaka. The max contract for siakam was not only devastating, it was an extension and even at 4/100, we still have room to sign ibaka.

Masai is a wizard but that siakam contract will hurt us badly. And already has. Your point about bird rights is not correct

Siakam's contract had zero impact on Ibaka.

The Raps didnt want to offer Ibaka multiple years to keep him in order to preserve cap space for 2021.

The Raps don't have any chance of landing an impact player without having a solid core in place and that core includes a signed Siakam.

This makes no sense. Siakams contract is precisely the main reason we are cap constrained in 2021 and could not keep ibaka. Offer siakam 4/100 which I think he takes given it is an extension and we still keep ibaka.

I love Masai but he can make mistakes. He did give javale mcgee 60 million at one point.

You can offer Siakam whatever you want, it doesn't mean he will take it. He wouldn't accept 4/100 when he'd get the max in the offseason. His agent isnt stupid. He'd be the best FA on the market this offseason and he'd get multiple max offers on day 1, especially from all the rebuilding teams who'd love to add a mid 20s allstar for just cash. Hayward just got 120M and people think Siakam is going to accept less.

4/100 wasnt an option. People need to stop pretending it was.

[Kingsway_fan]

masai is focused soley on next year. its going to be giannis or bust

I dont think we get him tbh and when that happens, masai will have to make tough decisions.theres a reason why masai drafted flynn, a capable player ready to play now and not some young project. I think masai beleives with giannis hes set for years bc we would have a legit mvp with a great supporting cast and a fantastic coach.

however again, when he signs and if he does before the season, we are in trouble. a core of fvv/pascal/og arengt anything more then a 2nd round exit

Lol.. raps are not getting past round one with their starting center gone... no depth at forward positions...
Seriously, this team will be fighting for a playoff position....

[anotherhomer]

masai is focused soley on next year. its going to be giannis or bust

I dont think we get him tbh and when that happens, masai will have to make tough decisions.theres a reason why masai drafted flynn, a capable player ready to play now and not some young project. I think masai beleives with giannis hes set for years bc we would have a legit mvp with a great supporting cast and a fantastic coach.

however again, when he signs and if he does before the season, we are in trouble. a core of fvv/pascal/og arengt anything more then a 2nd round exit

Lol.. raps are not getting past round one with their starting center gone... no depth at forward positions...
Seriously, this team will be fighting for a playoff position....

it's gonna be a tough year

[ratul]

Spoiler:

Siakam's contract had zero impact on Ibaka.

The Raps didnt want to offer Ibaka multiple years to keep him in order to preserve cap space for 2021.

The Raps don't have any chance of landing an impact player without having a solid core in place and that core includes a signed Siakam.

This makes no sense. Siakams contract is precisely the main reason we are cap constrained in 2021 and could not keep ibaka. Offer siakam 4/100 which I think he takes given it is an extension and we still keep ibaka.

I love Masai but he can make mistakes. He did give javale mcgee 60 million at one point.

You can offer Siakam whatever you want, it doesn't mean he will take it. He wouldn't accept 4/100 when he'd get the max in the offseason. His agent isnt stupid. He'd be the best FA on the market this offseason and he'd get multiple max offers on day 1, especially from all the rebuilding teams who'd love to add a mid 20s allstar for just cash. Hayward just got 120M and people think Siakam is going to accept less.

4/100 wasnt an option. People need to stop pretending it was.

You really can’t make up your mind can you? You initially claimed we could sign ibaka to whatever price we wanted because we had bird rights. When I reminded you that we would have to pay the repeater tax, you pivoted to the argument that pascal would not have settled for less than the max.

The reality is that pascal’s contract means we couldn’t resign ibaka. We would have had to pay the repeater tax likely. It’s a very bad contract and while we disagree on what pascal would have accepted, the reality is that pascal’s contract is awful now. Couple this with norm able to opt out next year and no centre, we have a bad contract that will hamper our ability to compete near term.

Again, Masai is a wizard. But he also gave javale mcgee 60 million and tried to trade Lowry so there are going to be hits and misses. Let’s not forget giving 60 million to demarre Carroll. Masai is the goat but let’s not think the raps didn’t screw up here. We prob did and let’s hope 2021 is better.

[Yeezus_]

This is about the repeater tax. We were effed with the repeater tax and paying pascal 30 million

We werent going to pay tax by re-signing Ibaka to a 1 year $15M deal or anything around there.

[Yeezus_]

masai is focused soley on next year. its going to be giannis or bust

I dont think we get him tbh and when that happens, masai will have to make tough decisions.theres a reason why masai drafted flynn, a capable player ready to play now and not some young project. I think masai beleives with giannis hes set for years bc we would have a legit mvp with a great supporting cast and a fantastic coach.

however again, when he signs and if he does before the season, we are in trouble. a core of fvv/pascal/og arengt anything more then a 2nd round exit

Lol.. raps are not getting past round one with their starting center gone... no depth at forward positions...
Seriously, this team will be fighting for a playoff position....

I mean, neither Ibaka or Gasol were on the floor against the Celtics in crunch time for essentially the entire series.

[MadDogSHWA]

Plan is clearly next year. Let’s develop our young guys.

Totally. Any perceived hole in our roster is a void that one of the young guys can step into.

[OakleyDokely]

Spoiler:

This makes no sense. Siakams contract is precisely the main reason we are cap constrained in 2021 and could not keep ibaka. Offer siakam 4/100 which I think he takes given it is an extension and we still keep ibaka.

I love Masai but he can make mistakes. He did give javale mcgee 60 million at one point.

You can offer Siakam whatever you want, it doesn't mean he will take it. He wouldn't accept 4/100 when he'd get the max in the offseason. His agent isnt stupid. He'd be the best FA on the market this offseason and he'd get multiple max offers on day 1, especially from all the rebuilding teams who'd love to add a mid 20s allstar for just cash. Hayward just got 120M and people think Siakam is going to accept less.

4/100 wasnt an option. People need to stop pretending it was.

You really can’t make up your mind can you? You initially claimed we could sign ibaka to whatever price we wanted because we had bird rights. When I reminded you that we would have to pay the repeater tax, you pivoted to the argument that pascal would not have settled for less than the max.

The reality is that pascal’s contract means we couldn’t resign ibaka. We would have had to pay the repeater tax likely. It’s a very bad contract and while we disagree on what pascal would have accepted, the reality is that pascal’s contract is awful now. Couple this with norm able to opt out next year and no centre, we have a bad contract that will hamper our ability to compete near term.

Again, Masai is a wizard. But he also gave javale mcgee 60 million and tried to trade Lowry so there are going to be hits and misses. Let’s not forget giving 60 million to demarre Carroll. Masai is the goat but let’s not think the raps didn’t screw up here. We prob did and let’s hope 2021 is better.

I'm not going to keep repeating my point because you cant understand.

If the Raps wanted Ibaka long term, they could've easily beat the LA offer without going into the tax. The Raps are currently 20 mill below the tax line. They could've signed Ibaka for 3/45 and stayed below tax while also using part of the MLE.

Siakam has nothing to do with Masai not wanting to give Ibaka multiple years. Siakam is a long term building block, Ibaka is not. They have nothing to do with each other.

[MonkBatter42]

Siakam's contract had zero impact on Ibaka.

The Raps didnt want to offer Ibaka multiple years to keep him in order to preserve cap space for 2021.

The Raps don't have any chance of landing an impact player without having a solid core in place and that core includes a signed Siakam.

This makes no sense. Siakams contract is precisely the main reason we are cap constrained in 2021 and could not keep ibaka. Offer siakam 4/100 which I think he takes given it is an extension and we still keep ibaka.

I love Masai but he can make mistakes. He did give javale mcgee 60 million at one point.

You can offer Siakam whatever you want, it doesn't mean he will take it. He wouldn't accept 4/100 when he'd get the max in the offseason. His agent isnt stupid. He'd be the best FA on the market this offseason and he'd get multiple max offers on day 1, especially from all the rebuilding teams who'd love to add a mid 20s allstar for just cash. Hayward just got 120M and people think Siakam is going to accept less.

4/100 wasnt an option. People need to stop pretending it was.

Perhaps, but I think the argument is that Masai/Bobby should have still waited for Pascal to become a RFA, to see what his market value would actually be this offseason. After mediocre play since January and a horrendous showing in the bubble, it's not exactly certain he could have commanded somewhere in the $120-130 million range. And even if some team did throw that money at him, we'd simply match it. Bottom line is that the extension was premature and not needed.

[OakleyDokely]

This makes no sense. Siakams contract is precisely the main reason we are cap constrained in 2021 and could not keep ibaka. Offer siakam 4/100 which I think he takes given it is an extension and we still keep ibaka.

I love Masai but he can make mistakes. He did give javale mcgee 60 million at one point.

You can offer Siakam whatever you want, it doesn't mean he will take it. He wouldn't accept 4/100 when he'd get the max in the offseason. His agent isnt stupid. He'd be the best FA on the market this offseason and he'd get multiple max offers on day 1, especially from all the rebuilding teams who'd love to add a mid 20s allstar for just cash. Hayward just got 120M and people think Siakam is going to accept less.

4/100 wasnt an option. People need to stop pretending it was.

Perhaps, but I think the argument is that Masai/Bobby should have still waited for Pascal to become a RFA, to see what his market value would actually be this offseason. After mediocre play since January and a horrendous showing in the bubble, it's not exactly certain he could have commanded somewhere in the $120-130 million range. And even if some team did throw that money at him, we'd simply match it. Bottom line is that the extension was premature and not needed.

In an offseason where Haywood is getting 120M, and guys like Grant are getting 20M a year, Siakam would easily be maxed out by a team like NY, DET, ATL. It's so obvious that it's not even worth debating.

[Starr1]

My faith in Masai is starting to shake. Pls do something quick else we turn to a treadmill team.

[ratul]

You can offer Siakam whatever you want, it doesn't mean he will take it. He wouldn't accept 4/100 when he'd get the max in the offseason. His agent isnt stupid. He'd be the best FA on the market this offseason and he'd get multiple max offers on day 1, especially from all the rebuilding teams who'd love to add a mid 20s allstar for just cash. Hayward just got 120M and people think Siakam is going to accept less.

4/100 wasnt an option. People need to stop pretending it was.

Perhaps, but I think the argument is that Masai/Bobby should have still waited for Pascal to become a RFA, to see what his market value would actually be this offseason. After mediocre play since January and a horrendous showing in the bubble, it's not exactly certain he could have commanded somewhere in the $120-130 million range. And even if some team did throw that money at him, we'd simply match it. Bottom line is that the extension was premature and not needed.

In an offseason where Haywood is getting 120M, and guys like Grant are getting 20M a year, Siakam would easily be maxed out by a team like NY, DET, ATL. It's so obvious that it's not even worth debating.

Oi vey

1. Detroit did not have max cap space - they would have been just under 30mn in cap space - not enough for a max.
2. Not a single player moved to another team for a max contract - the closest is Hayward which many people believe is an utterly ridiculous contract. Yet, it's still less 15 million less than what we pre-signed up for with Pascal
3. Most importantly, as the OP mentioned - we could have waited for Pascal to become an RFA and matched any deal that came our way. If for some reason, someone did throw the max, we could have matched it. In our current situation, we had to let Ibaka go because we already effed up with the Siakam signing. There was basically no downside to waiting with Pascal.


It's an eff-up. It happens - we have screwed ourselves on the cap with the Pascal contract. Masai remains the best but the Pascal thing has likely meant we couldn't keep Ibaka and flexibility in 2021.

[bluerap23]

Do we believe in the man that brought a championship to Toronto?

I mean who knows how to manage this team better - the man that is known to be a top 5 exec in the sport or some armchair GM's on this board.

This is a difficult question to answer.

[OakleyDokely]

Perhaps, but I think the argument is that Masai/Bobby should have still waited for Pascal to become a RFA, to see what his market value would actually be this offseason. After mediocre play since January and a horrendous showing in the bubble, it's not exactly certain he could have commanded somewhere in the $120-130 million range. And even if some team did throw that money at him, we'd simply match it. Bottom line is that the extension was premature and not needed.

In an offseason where Haywood is getting 120M, and guys like Grant are getting 20M a year, Siakam would easily be maxed out by a team like NY, DET, ATL. It's so obvious that it's not even worth debating.

Oi vey

1. Detroit did not have max cap space - they would have been just under 30mn in cap space - not enough for a max.
2. Not a single player moved to another team for a max contract - the closest is Hayward which many people believe is an utterly ridiculous contract. Yet, it's still less 15 million less than what we pre-signed up for with Pascal
3. Most importantly, as the OP mentioned - we could have waited for Pascal to become an RFA and matched any deal that came our way. If for some reason, someone did throw the max, we could have matched it. In our current situation, we had to let Ibaka go because we already effed up with the Siakam signing. There was basically no downside to waiting with Pascal.


It's an eff-up. It happens - we have screwed ourselves on the cap with the Pascal contract. Masai remains the best but the Pascal thing has likely meant we couldn't keep Ibaka and flexibility in 2021.

You have no understanding of the current Raptors cap situation.

[mickie]

I believe and trust Masai.. the guy knows what he's doing.. remember when the whole Raptorland crucified him when he traded DeMar.. he put his whole career on the line for that trade so i will still give him the chance.