ImageImageImageImageImage

OG extension now or RFA match 2021

Moderators: Patman, pbj, Alfred, Duffman100, Morris_Shatford, DG88, Rhettmatic, niQ

DelAbbot
Pro Prospect
Posts: 898
And1: 933
Joined: May 22, 2019
 

OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#1 » by DelAbbot » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:09 am

I'm trying to understand why people are suggesting NOT extending OG right now, in order to keep his cap hold low for 2021 Giannis sweepstakes.

When 2021 FA starts, and some team offers OG a big offer sheet on day 1, forcing us to match - wouldn't that eat into our 2021 cap space? Giannis probably takes his time in 2021 FA and will not sign before we have to match OG's offer sheet. If we sign OG's offer sheet first, then our max slot is gone before we can sign Giannis.

Doesn't this mean, the best thing to do is to extend OG right now, at a reasonable and cost-certain price, and then clear cap space before 2021 FA starts?
Tor_Raps
Head Coach
Posts: 6,721
And1: 9,206
Joined: Oct 14, 2018

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#2 » by Tor_Raps » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:11 am

Extending him now screws our 2021 cap space. Really hope we wait to do that.
User avatar
Gold Dragon
Analyst
Posts: 3,102
And1: 3,227
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Oz
 

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#3 » by Gold Dragon » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:13 am

DelAbbot wrote:I'm trying to understand why people are suggesting NOT extending OG right now, in order to keep his cap hold low for 2021 Giannis sweepstakes.

When 2021 FA starts, and some team offers OG a big offer sheet on day 1, forcing us to match - wouldn't that eat into our 2021 cap space? Giannis probably takes his time in 2021 FA and will not sign before we have to match OG's offer sheet.

Doesn't this mean, the best thing to do is to extend OG right now, at a reasonable and cost-certain price, and then clear cap space before 2021 FA starts?


OG's cap hold is 9.6M. That is the amount he will count towards the cap next offseason if we don't extend him that allows us to retain his RFA rights. After you sign a max FA, you can then match OG's contract and go over the cap.

If we extend OG now, it will likely for more than 9.6M and then we will not have room for a max FA next off season. Even with OG's cap hold, we need Norm to opt out of his option year or to trade him away if he opts in to make room for the max FA.
DelAbbot
Pro Prospect
Posts: 898
And1: 933
Joined: May 22, 2019
 

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#4 » by DelAbbot » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:16 am

Gold Dragon wrote:
DelAbbot wrote:I'm trying to understand why people are suggesting NOT extending OG right now, in order to keep his cap hold low for 2021 Giannis sweepstakes.

When 2021 FA starts, and some team offers OG a big offer sheet on day 1, forcing us to match - wouldn't that eat into our 2021 cap space? Giannis probably takes his time in 2021 FA and will not sign before we have to match OG's offer sheet.

Doesn't this mean, the best thing to do is to extend OG right now, at a reasonable and cost-certain price, and then clear cap space before 2021 FA starts?


OG's cap hold is 9.6M. That is the amount he will count towards the cap next offseason if we don't extend him that allows us to retain his RFA rights. After you sign a max FA, you can then match OG's contract and go over the cap with that amount.

If we extend OG now, it will likely for more than 9.6M and we will not have room for a max FA. Even with OG's cap hold, we need Norm to opt out of his option year or to trade him away if he opts in to make room for the max FA.


Say OG gets $20Mx4 offer sheet on day 1 of 2021 FA, and then on day 10 Giannis decides to sign with someone. Can we delay matching the OG offer sheet to day 11, after signing Giannis to the max on day 10 (going over the cap for OG)?
Zeno
RealGM
Posts: 11,303
And1: 9,503
Joined: Jun 06, 2001
   

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#5 » by Zeno » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:16 am

I think his caphold is 11.6 million and after dumping Norm we would have above max space by a certain amount, maybe 5 million or so. So I'd definitely offer him a four year extension starting at around 17 million if he'd sign it. I might even go to 19 million and dump my 1st next year for some high 2nds to open up an additional 2 million. Some team is offering him max next offseason. Otto Porter got the max.
When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?

Please advise….

Dan G.
Kreamy
RealGM
Posts: 14,875
And1: 1,150
Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Location: Toronto
   

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#6 » by Kreamy » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:19 am

If OG is cool signing for what his cap hold would be ($8-9mm I think), then sure. Doubt it though.
bboyskinnylegs
RealGM
Posts: 31,203
And1: 16,237
Joined: Jul 11, 2009

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#7 » by bboyskinnylegs » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:20 am

there is a chance someone jumps on signing OG early to a big offer, but that's a risk we'd have to take if we're all in on trying to bring Giannis here. I don't think there's a lot of teams that will have capspace that won't also try to land Giannis first though.
User avatar
Red_Claw
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,391
And1: 8,012
Joined: May 31, 2012
Location: Edmonton
       

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#8 » by Red_Claw » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:22 am

I think we trade Pascal and fillers for Giannis if we have a chance at him. Cap space wont matter as much.
JustWin
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,305
And1: 1,792
Joined: Oct 07, 2012
 

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#9 » by JustWin » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:22 am

RFA man... we gotta stop outbidding ourselves! Look at Siakam!
User avatar
Gold Dragon
Analyst
Posts: 3,102
And1: 3,227
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Oz
 

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#10 » by Gold Dragon » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:26 am

DelAbbot wrote:
Gold Dragon wrote:
DelAbbot wrote:I'm trying to understand why people are suggesting NOT extending OG right now, in order to keep his cap hold low for 2021 Giannis sweepstakes.

When 2021 FA starts, and some team offers OG a big offer sheet on day 1, forcing us to match - wouldn't that eat into our 2021 cap space? Giannis probably takes his time in 2021 FA and will not sign before we have to match OG's offer sheet.

Doesn't this mean, the best thing to do is to extend OG right now, at a reasonable and cost-certain price, and then clear cap space before 2021 FA starts?


OG's cap hold is 9.6M. That is the amount he will count towards the cap next offseason if we don't extend him that allows us to retain his RFA rights. After you sign a max FA, you can then match OG's contract and go over the cap with that amount.

If we extend OG now, it will likely for more than 9.6M and we will not have room for a max FA. Even with OG's cap hold, we need Norm to opt out of his option year or to trade him away if he opts in to make room for the max FA.


Say OG gets $20Mx4 offer sheet on day 1 of 2021 FA, and then on day 10 Giannis decides to sign with someone. Can we delay matching the OG offer sheet to day 11, after signing Giannis to the max on day 10 (going over the cap for OG)?


When an RFA gets an offer sheet, there is a 2 day window for the team to match.

The behind the scenes workings of these deals also allow teams to submit transactions to the league in their desired order to make everything fit under CBA rules. That usually happens later on in free agency. That is why you see the deals agreed upon like the Jrue deal and then modified later. Because the deal has actually not been finalized with the league.

We have had teams reneg on deals their GM already agreed upon or free agents reneg on deals in this window between an agreement and formal filing with the league. I think that happened with us when Jordan cancled a deal we made with Charlotte and we also had a free agent reneg on us as well because "God" changed his mind.
DelAbbot
Pro Prospect
Posts: 898
And1: 933
Joined: May 22, 2019
 

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#11 » by DelAbbot » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:41 am

Gold Dragon wrote:
DelAbbot wrote:
Gold Dragon wrote:
OG's cap hold is 9.6M. That is the amount he will count towards the cap next offseason if we don't extend him that allows us to retain his RFA rights. After you sign a max FA, you can then match OG's contract and go over the cap with that amount.

If we extend OG now, it will likely for more than 9.6M and we will not have room for a max FA. Even with OG's cap hold, we need Norm to opt out of his option year or to trade him away if he opts in to make room for the max FA.


Say OG gets $20Mx4 offer sheet on day 1 of 2021 FA, and then on day 10 Giannis decides to sign with someone. Can we delay matching the OG offer sheet to day 11, after signing Giannis to the max on day 10 (going over the cap for OG)?


When an RFA gets an offer sheet, there is a 2 day window for the team to match.

The behind the scenes workings of these deals also allow teams to submit transactions to the league in their desired order to make everything fit under CBA rules. That usually happens later on in free agency. That is why you see the deals agreed upon like the Jrue deal and then modified later. Because the deal has actually not been finalized with the league.

We have had teams reneg on deals their GM already agreed upon or free agents reneg on deals in this window between an agreement and formal filing with the league. I think that happened with us when Jordan cancled a deal we made with Charlotte and we also had a free agent reneg on us as well because "God" changed his mind.


That sounds like a very small window to sign Giannis.

There must be some teams with 2021 cap space, but less than a max slot of cap space. They file a formal offer sheet to OG at ~$20M per year, with the league as soon as 2021 FA starts. Then we got exactly two days to sign Giannis. That's a very small window to operate. So Masai must be very confident in securing Giannis within the first few days of 2021 FA, or we are taking a big gamble with OG's RFA status heading into 2021 FA.
User avatar
Syd-TK3
General Manager
Posts: 9,878
And1: 9,974
Joined: Jun 07, 2015
 

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#12 » by Syd-TK3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:44 am

Do it now he's due for a breakout
Image
kalel123
Veteran
Posts: 2,945
And1: 1,389
Joined: Oct 19, 2004

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#13 » by kalel123 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:05 am

This is where back room deal would come in handy.
Raptors_128
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,854
And1: 1,722
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
       

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#14 » by Raptors_128 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:08 am

If he’s okay with 4-yr/$60 mill or 5-yr/$75 mill lock him in now. Some dumbass team will overpay him like Detroit did with Grant.
User avatar
ItsDanger
Head Coach
Posts: 6,610
And1: 3,331
Joined: Nov 01, 2008

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#15 » by ItsDanger » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:09 am

kalel123 wrote:This is where back room deal would come in handy.

Safe bet OG can keep his mouth shut.
Organization can be defined as an organized body of people with a particular purpose. Not random.
User avatar
Gold Dragon
Analyst
Posts: 3,102
And1: 3,227
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Oz
 

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#16 » by Gold Dragon » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:22 am

DelAbbot wrote:
Gold Dragon wrote:
DelAbbot wrote:
Say OG gets $20Mx4 offer sheet on day 1 of 2021 FA, and then on day 10 Giannis decides to sign with someone. Can we delay matching the OG offer sheet to day 11, after signing Giannis to the max on day 10 (going over the cap for OG)?


When an RFA gets an offer sheet, there is a 2 day window for the team to match.

The behind the scenes workings of these deals also allow teams to submit transactions to the league in their desired order to make everything fit under CBA rules. That usually happens later on in free agency. That is why you see the deals agreed upon like the Jrue deal and then modified later. Because the deal has actually not been finalized with the league.

We have had teams reneg on deals their GM already agreed upon or free agents reneg on deals in this window between an agreement and formal filing with the league. I think that happened with us when Jordan cancled a deal we made with Charlotte and we also had a free agent reneg on us as well because "God" changed his mind.


That sounds like a very small window to sign Giannis.

There must be some teams with 2021 cap space, but less than a max slot of cap space. They file a formal offer sheet to OG at ~$20M per year, with the league as soon as 2021 FA starts. Then we got exactly two days to sign Giannis. That's a very small window to operate. So Masai must be very confident in securing Giannis within the first few days of 2021 FA, or we are taking a big gamble with OG's RFA status heading into 2021 FA.


Just looked into it some more. The 2 days to match is 2 days from the end of the July Moratorium.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article/nba-free-agency-faqs-explaining-moratorium-bird-rights/

The moratorium is usually a 6 day period from when we are allow to negotiate with free agents but nothing is officially finalized until after the moratorium ends. This year it started Nov 20 and is only 2 days long because of the shortened offseason.

So next year if OG gets an offer sheet on July 1, we will have until July 8 to match his offer sheet. The team that makes the offer sheet is unable to offer that amount of money to another free agent while they are waiting for the Raptors to match. That money in their cap is effectively locked for 8 days when all the big UFAs are signing deals so you will find this rarely happens at the beginning of free agency.

Even after the Raptors match, you have a certain time before you file with the league office but I'm not sure how long that window is.
User avatar
seanbig
General Manager
Posts: 8,303
And1: 2,164
Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Location: wrong side of canada for raps

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#17 » by seanbig » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:23 am

I love Og but can someone explain to me why OG is a Rpm of -0.2 and Powell is like a plus 2

Is it because norm is coming off the bench and Og is going
Against starters???

Man I hate stats when it crushes my eye test or Er the scarf test
Official 1,000,000 post crew
Raptor95,Seanbig,Spykelee,ClutchCarter,
aRapsFan4eva,Koz RJC, MAS, Slowlydrowningme,bigdub,GQstylin
RaptorsNorth
RealGM
Posts: 15,973
And1: 13,479
Joined: Feb 20, 2017

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#18 » by RaptorsNorth » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:32 am

Tough, tough call. You know what happened with pascal, you know how much he’s making because we jumped the gun. you know OG might ask for a big bag right ? That’s almost a given! You can probably find another OG in the draft if you trade up. I dunno about pascal and OG making huge money and eating most of our cap. Remember when we overpaid norm ? Now that deal is not as bad when you look at the money being thrown around but we could have gotten him for cheaper because he struggled the season after we gave that bag.
“Elephant in the room : Nick Thibodeau” Board member seanbig :lol: :lol: :lol:

"THEY'RE SAYING US AND GOLDEN STATE ARE THE SUPER TEAMS" Knicks PG Derrick Rose :lol:
Marty_Budda
Junior
Posts: 266
And1: 402
Joined: Aug 06, 2018
     

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#19 » by Marty_Budda » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:13 pm

JustWin wrote:RFA man... we gotta stop outbidding ourselves! Look at Siakam!


Bad example. Siakam is a champion and was an all star last season. He was getting maxed by someone if not us despite stinking it up in the bubble.
User avatar
Parataxis
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,060
And1: 1,341
Joined: Jan 31, 2010
Location: Penticton, BC
       

Re: OG extension now or RFA match 2021 

Post#20 » by Parataxis » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:27 pm

DelAbbot wrote:
Gold Dragon wrote:
DelAbbot wrote:
Say OG gets $20Mx4 offer sheet on day 1 of 2021 FA, and then on day 10 Giannis decides to sign with someone. Can we delay matching the OG offer sheet to day 11, after signing Giannis to the max on day 10 (going over the cap for OG)?


When an RFA gets an offer sheet, there is a 2 day window for the team to match.

The behind the scenes workings of these deals also allow teams to submit transactions to the league in their desired order to make everything fit under CBA rules. That usually happens later on in free agency. That is why you see the deals agreed upon like the Jrue deal and then modified later. Because the deal has actually not been finalized with the league.

We have had teams reneg on deals their GM already agreed upon or free agents reneg on deals in this window between an agreement and formal filing with the league. I think that happened with us when Jordan cancled a deal we made with Charlotte and we also had a free agent reneg on us as well because "God" changed his mind.


That sounds like a very small window to sign Giannis.

There must be some teams with 2021 cap space, but less than a max slot of cap space. They file a formal offer sheet to OG at ~$20M per year, with the league as soon as 2021 FA starts. Then we got exactly two days to sign Giannis. That's a very small window to operate. So Masai must be very confident in securing Giannis within the first few days of 2021 FA, or we are taking a big gamble with OG's RFA status heading into 2021 FA.


Or, equally likely, *assuming that OG wants to stay as a Raptor*... team X offers him 4/80. Instead of signing that offer sheet right away, his agent calls Masai, and says "Hey, we have 80/4 from X. Are you guys going to match that?" Masai say "yeah, that works for us. We'll sign OG to that, just give us a week to sign our max FA first, so we'll have a better team put together". Agent says "Okay, great"

Everybody wins.

Return to Toronto Raptors