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Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry

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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#101 » by Indeed » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:11 pm

JB7 wrote:As long as Philly remains at the top of the conference, the less likely they deal for Lowry.

Lowry's deal is too large for them to fit in the required number of players to match, without depleting their bench.

Plus, they can just sign him in the off-season to the MLE, without giving up any assets. Plus, if they traded for him, they would probably have to pay him more than the MLE, as they would have his bird rights.

Still think the deal that is waiting for the Raps with Lowry is with GSW (Lowry, McCaw & Davis for Wiggins, Chriss and a pick - probably not the Minny pick though). GSW saves a ton of money next year with Lowry's expiring deal (salary plus tax implications), plus they get a solid second option for this year.


They will include the Minny pick, along with our 2nd round pick. They probably don't want to add salary next year anyway.
Meanwhile, Wiggins does not give enough offense to be the 2nd scoring option for his big salary, and we are giving them an expiring to get below the tax the year after.

I don't think we are giving them McCaw / Davis, they have enough guards as well.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#102 » by PoundTown » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:23 pm

Psubs wrote:
PoundTown wrote:
t54zhao wrote:Obviously you trade Lowry to the Sixers.

Lowry is an advanced stats darling and guess who's in charge over in Philadelphia? Mr Advanced Stats himself Morey.

Trade him for the Mike Scott, Thybull/Maxey, and Danny Green package.

Then trade Mike Scott and Danny Green to other contenders.

Lowry becomes 1-2 young prospects from the Sixers, maybe 2-3 late firsts depending on what you get for two shooters in Mike Scott and Danny Green.

And we tank even more for Cade

Perfect move.


If they do that, you do it. Would rather have a 2nd over thybulle though. No way I want a wing that is an absolute liability on offence.


Agreed, Thybulle is like Roberson 2.0.



Maxey's pull up J is elite. With that elite floater already he can score on all levels already. I would think he's untouchable, even more than Simmons. Might be able to get Joe.

Lowry, Matt Thomas and cash for Green, Scott, Isaiah Joe, and 2021 1st pick.

If Nurse isn't going to use Thomas, better flip him while he's shooting 50% from 3.


It's one of Joe or Maxey to be included. Maxey is option 1, but just saw that Joe put together a few really nice games as well. I didn't get to see if the guy really defends other than he is active in the passing lanes and looks like he could at least be capable from a size and athletecism stand point. Offensively, looks to me kind of like Tim Hardaway. If Maxey is off the table, that's next best deal with the FRP attached.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#103 » by brownbobcat » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:42 pm

PoundTown wrote:If they do that, you do it. Would rather have a 2nd over thybulle though. No way I want a wing that is an absolute liability on offence.

Thybulle is elite on D - if he was passable offensively, he'd be worth OG money and wouldn't be available. I think that's a worthwhile gamble over a 2nd rounder.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#104 » by PoundTown » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:45 pm

Psubs wrote:
dTox wrote:I'd rather let kyle walk than take on Harris' albatross contract in a trade

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


Perhaps they won't let Maxey go, but maybe Joe.

Lowry, Harris, Len and future 2nd pick for Harris, Joe, cash and 1st pick


I don't necessarily think they even want to let Harris go. Bad contract or not, Harris still helps them win and puts the ball in the basket efficiently as an off-ball option. These guys make this trade to win, not to shed salary.

Lowry
Curry
Simmons
Harris
Embiid

with Dwight and Maxey off the bench, this is a great squad that is loaded offensively, solid defensivly with decent coaching, and if they commit to going into tax next year to retain Lowry using bird rights, they have a little window to work with. By the time Lowry is fully washed, Maxey is ready for a bigger role and contract extension. Makes too much sense.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#105 » by mtcan » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:52 pm

brownbobcat wrote:
PoundTown wrote:If they do that, you do it. Would rather have a 2nd over thybulle though. No way I want a wing that is an absolute liability on offence.

Thybulle is elite on D - if he was passable offensively, he'd be worth OG money and wouldn't be available. I think that's a worthwhile gamble over a 2nd rounder.

I like Thybulle but he is another OG...and we really need guys who can hit a damn shot.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#106 » by sidsid » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:16 pm

I'm usually for maximizing assets, but in Lowry's case there's great value in upping the value of our pick now vs. potentially getting a better return at the trade deadline for him (which is where we'd likely get better offers for Lowry).

The team's stats pretty clearly show that we're at least an average, mediocre team, not an outright awful one. We've just been pulling off some clutch losses and key bad play from all players at the right time.

Covid and injuries might play an unintentional role in keeping us down, but you can't rely on it. Gotta be proactive and trade Lowry soon.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#107 » by brownbobcat » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:17 pm

JB7 wrote:As long as Philly remains at the top of the conference, the less likely they deal for Lowry.

Lowry's deal is too large for them to fit in the required number of players to match, without depleting their bench.

Plus, they can just sign him in the off-season to the MLE, without giving up any assets. Plus, if they traded for him, they would probably have to pay him more than the MLE, as they would have his bird rights.

I'm of the opinion that being near the top makes it more likely they'll trade for Lowry because they'll want to capitalize on things NOW. Morey knows how short the championship window can be. Next season is next season, it's not guaranteed that they can get Lowry for the MLE or that Lowry would even be the same player in 2022.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#108 » by billy_hoyle » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:18 pm

mtcan wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:
PoundTown wrote:If they do that, you do it. Would rather have a 2nd over thybulle though. No way I want a wing that is an absolute liability on offence.

Thybulle is elite on D - if he was passable offensively, he'd be worth OG money and wouldn't be available. I think that's a worthwhile gamble over a 2nd rounder.

I like Thybulle but he is another OG...and we really need guys who can hit a damn shot.


I really like Thybulle, I'd love to have him on this team. If he develops offensively, man... That is a valuable player.

I watched the full-game highlights of that Maxey start. He made an insane number of mid-range pull ups. The kind that land softly on the rim and then drop.

Those are the kind of shots that I think are pretty unsustainable. How many PGs have really been efficient with that type of repertoire?

Lou Williams
Tony Parker
Who else?

Seems more like a Brandon Jennings 51pt game to me.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#109 » by mdenny » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:22 pm

mtcan wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:
PoundTown wrote:If they do that, you do it. Would rather have a 2nd over thybulle though. No way I want a wing that is an absolute liability on offence.

Thybulle is elite on D - if he was passable offensively, he'd be worth OG money and wouldn't be available. I think that's a worthwhile gamble over a 2nd rounder.

I like Thybulle but he is another OG...and we really need guys who can hit a damn shot.



We might eventually only use Thybulle as a lock-down defender off the bench. A cheap role player who has elite defence locked in for cheap another 3 years. Or we could convert OG into another piece if Tybulle becomes good enough to replace him and we have aredundancy.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#110 » by mdenny » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:29 pm

billy_hoyle wrote:
mtcan wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:Thybulle is elite on D - if he was passable offensively, he'd be worth OG money and wouldn't be available. I think that's a worthwhile gamble over a 2nd rounder.

I like Thybulle but he is another OG...and we really need guys who can hit a damn shot.


I really like Thybulle, I'd love to have him on this team. If he develops offensively, man... That is a valuable player.

I watched the full-game highlights of that Maxey start. He made an insane number of mid-range pull ups. The kind that land softly on the rim and then drop.

Those are the kind of shots that I think are pretty unsustainable. How many PGs have really been efficient with that type of repertoire?

Lou Williams
Tony Parker
Who else?

Seems more like a Brandon Jennings 51pt game to me.


Rafer Alston had that shot. To a certain extent Jalen Rose.

I wonder if this is something that young players will start adding to their game more. It's basically impossible to defend when a guy doesn't have to go straight up to have a reliable shot. I could see this becoming a new 'thing'.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#111 » by Jetfire » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:32 pm

If lowry goes to Phili he's going to win another championship. If were going to trade him it would be nice to send him to his birthplace to win again, for all that he's done for the Raptors. He's the only raps player I'd wear their jersey (if they weren't so ridiculously expensive)
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#112 » by DelAbbot » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:48 pm

billy_hoyle wrote:
mtcan wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:Thybulle is elite on D - if he was passable offensively, he'd be worth OG money and wouldn't be available. I think that's a worthwhile gamble over a 2nd rounder.

I like Thybulle but he is another OG...and we really need guys who can hit a damn shot.


I really like Thybulle, I'd love to have him on this team. If he develops offensively, man... That is a valuable player.

I watched the full-game highlights of that Maxey start. He made an insane number of mid-range pull ups. The kind that land softly on the rim and then drop.

Those are the kind of shots that I think are pretty unsustainable. How many PGs have really been efficient with that type of repertoire?

Lou Williams
Tony Parker
Who else?

Seems more like a Brandon Jennings 51pt game to me.


If Thybulle can just improve catch-and-shoot-3's to above average, he is younger/in-prime Danny Green / Robert Covington.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#113 » by PoundTown » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:22 pm

DelAbbot wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:
mtcan wrote:I like Thybulle but he is another OG...and we really need guys who can hit a damn shot.


I really like Thybulle, I'd love to have him on this team. If he develops offensively, man... That is a valuable player.

I watched the full-game highlights of that Maxey start. He made an insane number of mid-range pull ups. The kind that land softly on the rim and then drop.

Those are the kind of shots that I think are pretty unsustainable. How many PGs have really been efficient with that type of repertoire?

Lou Williams
Tony Parker
Who else?

Seems more like a Brandon Jennings 51pt game to me.


If Thybulle can just improve catch-and-shoot-3's to above average, he is younger/in-prime Danny Green / Robert Covington.


He's just way too much of a liability offensively for me. He's Danny Green without the three point shot offensively. As possibly the worst offensive team in NBA and getting dramatically worse by getting rid of 1/3rd of our guys that can do anything offensively, I don't get the point. Defense is our strong suit. As much as I know a bunch of you are making this trade by fueling the tank, I am more inclined to do this to reward Lowry, understand we need to rebuild, but I'm not cheering for losses. Not until the last ten games of the year anyways. No good habits were ever made trying to lose, but obviously this trade makes it even harder for us to win. Personally, would love to get Oladipo in offseason to accelerate the rebuild, providing that dude would come. Probably a longshot now that we're no good, but with say an Evan Mobley drafted, maybe he could see the upside.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#114 » by billy_hoyle » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:29 pm

mdenny wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:
mtcan wrote:I like Thybulle but he is another OG...and we really need guys who can hit a damn shot.


I really like Thybulle, I'd love to have him on this team. If he develops offensively, man... That is a valuable player.

I watched the full-game highlights of that Maxey start. He made an insane number of mid-range pull ups. The kind that land softly on the rim and then drop.

Those are the kind of shots that I think are pretty unsustainable. How many PGs have really been efficient with that type of repertoire?

Lou Williams
Tony Parker
Who else?

Seems more like a Brandon Jennings 51pt game to me.


Rafer Alston had that shot. To a certain extent Jalen Rose.

I wonder if this is something that young players will start adding to their game more. It's basically impossible to defend when a guy doesn't have to go straight up to have a reliable shot. I could see this becoming a new 'thing'.


Those are two pretty good examples. I'm not sure Rafer was ever very efficient, hence why he was only in the league for a short while. That definitely is the way he scored though.

Jalen is a good example, he totally had that type of shot in his game. If he was a decent defender he would have been in regular all-star consideration.

I think it's really difficult skill to add, otherwise there would be more examples.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#115 » by nivisi9 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:45 pm

I'm usually for maximizing assets, but in Lowry's case there's great value in upping the value of our pick now vs. potentially getting a better return at the trade deadline for him (which is where we'd likely get better offers for Lowry).


This, need to trade him sooner then later because the better lottery pick is our greatest asset.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#116 » by Too Late Crew » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:57 pm

He needs to be traded sooner than later. I’m not worried about the tank. I’m not worried about getting the absolute maximum value for him as long as we get good value. The things that scare me the most are injuries and COVID shutdowns. Kyle has a very short shelf life of being a very good older player on an expiring contract. At his age and size he’s a ticking time bomb in terms of one injury shredding his value. He’s most valuable to help put a team over the top now. If he’s hurt that goes away. With this being the last year of his contract I’d rather see him traded now rather than having COVID shut down the league and then having to deal with either resigning him or losing him for nothing. If he can be sent to a good situation for
Him great I’d like to see him rewarded for his service but ultimately he’s an asset with a short shelf life and getting best return ASAP is priority. All those sentimental folks can wait for him to be waived in a year or 2 and then sign him to the minimum so he can retire a raptor if you want
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#117 » by ConSarnit » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:28 am

What should happen is TOR should inform Lowry they might trade him, have him give them a list of teams he’d go to, and then allow Lowry’s agent to negotiate a 1 year extension (similar to Iggy). This should up Lowrys value in a trade while giving his new team security he won’t leave and lock in more guaranteed money for Lowry.
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#118 » by Marty_Budda » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:42 am

PoundTown wrote:
DelAbbot wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:
I really like Thybulle, I'd love to have him on this team. If he develops offensively, man... That is a valuable player.

I watched the full-game highlights of that Maxey start. He made an insane number of mid-range pull ups. The kind that land softly on the rim and then drop.

Those are the kind of shots that I think are pretty unsustainable. How many PGs have really been efficient with that type of repertoire?

Lou Williams
Tony Parker
Who else?

Seems more like a Brandon Jennings 51pt game to me.


If Thybulle can just improve catch-and-shoot-3's to above average, he is younger/in-prime Danny Green / Robert Covington.


He's just way too much of a liability offensively for me. He's Danny Green without the three point shot offensively. As possibly the worst offensive team in NBA and getting dramatically worse by getting rid of 1/3rd of our guys that can do anything offensively, I don't get the point. Defense is our strong suit. As much as I know a bunch of you are making this trade by fueling the tank, I am more inclined to do this to reward Lowry, understand we need to rebuild, but I'm not cheering for losses. Not until the last ten games of the year anyways. No good habits were ever made trying to lose, but obviously this trade makes it even harder for us to win. Personally, would love to get Oladipo in offseason to accelerate the rebuild, providing that dude would come. Probably a longshot now that we're no good, but with say an Evan Mobley drafted, maybe he could see the upside.


Honest question. Is he any better than Stanley?
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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#119 » by Zeno » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:22 am

ConSarnit wrote:What should happen is TOR should inform Lowry they might trade him, have him give them a list of teams he’d go to, and then allow Lowry’s agent to negotiate a 1 year extension (similar to Iggy). This should up Lowrys value in a trade while giving his new team security he won’t leave and lock in more guaranteed money for Lowry.

Lowry's contract is such that he's not extension eligible. He is going to be a free agent no matter whether he or his team wants him to be or not.
When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?

Please advise….

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Re: Why its time to trade Kyle Lowry 

Post#120 » by DelAbbot » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:43 am

Marty_Budda wrote:
PoundTown wrote:
DelAbbot wrote:
If Thybulle can just improve catch-and-shoot-3's to above average, he is younger/in-prime Danny Green / Robert Covington.


He's just way too much of a liability offensively for me. He's Danny Green without the three point shot offensively. As possibly the worst offensive team in NBA and getting dramatically worse by getting rid of 1/3rd of our guys that can do anything offensively, I don't get the point. Defense is our strong suit. As much as I know a bunch of you are making this trade by fueling the tank, I am more inclined to do this to reward Lowry, understand we need to rebuild, but I'm not cheering for losses. Not until the last ten games of the year anyways. No good habits were ever made trying to lose, but obviously this trade makes it even harder for us to win. Personally, would love to get Oladipo in offseason to accelerate the rebuild, providing that dude would come. Probably a longshot now that we're no good, but with say an Evan Mobley drafted, maybe he could see the upside.


Honest question. Is he any better than Stanley?


Watch some of his highlights - very fluid on defense

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