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Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games

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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#41 » by Raptors_Dynasty » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:33 pm

Just looked at the East standings, looks like the top 8 teams look pretty accurate. Just hit me we won't be in the playoffs for the first time in 8 years wow.
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#42 » by lebron stopper » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:54 pm

Indeed wrote:Not sure if you actually watch the game. I watched the game against the Kings, and his scoring comes from spot up and transition. In half court, his only tool to create his own shot is came out from screen and drive straight to the rim (no shot blocker and not being cut off), which is rather limited. While his defense isn't anything good in particular, Fox blown by him on one of the first few possessions.


Yes, I watched. He punished the Kings over and over again for leaving him open.

He's an off-ball player (shooter/cutter/rim runner/etc.), not a shot creator, and that's okay. There's another team that will want that skillset.

Indeed wrote:I am not surprised his numbers are better being a starter, as his game comes from transition, our starting lineup has good defensive players (or two way players) from making them into fast break, however, his individual ability didn't stand out, where his replacement value is currently -0.1:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/powelno01.html


Didn't you just say he was bad as a starter?

Indeed wrote:I wouldn't put him as a starter because we want to make him look good. I would rather have someone who can actually help reduce the pressure from our starters to play that spot.


That's precisely what he did as a starter last season.

There are teams that will want to trade for players like Powell who can make an impact without needing the ball.
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#43 » by Inevitable » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:57 pm

Raptors_Dynasty wrote:Just looked at the East standings, looks like the top 8 teams look pretty accurate. Just hit me we won't be in the playoffs for the first time in 8 years wow.


We can still make it, our net rating indicates us at around a .500 team. But we simply can't close games and are a starter injury/covid related absence away from cementing ourselves at the bottom.
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#44 » by Indeed » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:23 am

lebron stopper wrote:
Indeed wrote:Not sure if you actually watch the game. I watched the game against the Kings, and his scoring comes from spot up and transition. In half court, his only tool to create his own shot is came out from screen and drive straight to the rim (no shot blocker and not being cut off), which is rather limited. While his defense isn't anything good in particular, Fox blown by him on one of the first few possessions.


Yes, I watched. He punished the Kings over and over again for leaving him open.

He's an off-ball player (shooter/cutter/rim runner/etc.), not a shot creator, and that's okay. There's another team that will want that skillset.

Indeed wrote:I am not surprised his numbers are better being a starter, as his game comes from transition, our starting lineup has good defensive players (or two way players) from making them into fast break, however, his individual ability didn't stand out, where his replacement value is currently -0.1:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/powelno01.html


Didn't you just say he was bad as a starter?

Indeed wrote:I wouldn't put him as a starter because we want to make him look good. I would rather have someone who can actually help reduce the pressure from our starters to play that spot.


That's precisely what he did as a starter last season.

There are teams that will want to trade for players like Powell who can make an impact without needing the ball.


That is not true, playoff teams want a lockdown or scoring guard. Powell has no place in a playoff team being a starter, as he is undersize to play SF. Look around at the starting lineup of teams, please let me know who he will replace:
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?sort=MIN&dir=1
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#45 » by casual_raps_fan » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:27 am

Inevitable wrote:
Raptors_Dynasty wrote:Just looked at the East standings, looks like the top 8 teams look pretty accurate. Just hit me we won't be in the playoffs for the first time in 8 years wow.


We can still make it, our net rating indicates us at around a .500 team. But we simply can't close games and are a starter injury/covid related absence away from cementing ourselves at the bottom.

I used to think that at the beginning of the season but I'm not so sure now.

Siakam, OG, Norm had really bad starts and it was reasonable to expect them to start playing better... the center position is unfixable though. We probably have the worst center rotation in the entire league.

It's unreasonable to expect a team with no playable center and mediocre wing depth to be able to make the playoffs.
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#46 » by lebron stopper » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:43 am

Indeed wrote:
lebron stopper wrote:
Indeed wrote:Not sure if you actually watch the game. I watched the game against the Kings, and his scoring comes from spot up and transition. In half court, his only tool to create his own shot is came out from screen and drive straight to the rim (no shot blocker and not being cut off), which is rather limited. While his defense isn't anything good in particular, Fox blown by him on one of the first few possessions.


Yes, I watched. He punished the Kings over and over again for leaving him open.

He's an off-ball player (shooter/cutter/rim runner/etc.), not a shot creator, and that's okay. There's another team that will want that skillset.

Indeed wrote:I am not surprised his numbers are better being a starter, as his game comes from transition, our starting lineup has good defensive players (or two way players) from making them into fast break, however, his individual ability didn't stand out, where his replacement value is currently -0.1:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/powelno01.html


Didn't you just say he was bad as a starter?

Indeed wrote:I wouldn't put him as a starter because we want to make him look good. I would rather have someone who can actually help reduce the pressure from our starters to play that spot.


That's precisely what he did as a starter last season.

There are teams that will want to trade for players like Powell who can make an impact without needing the ball.


That is not true, playoff teams want a lockdown or scoring guard. Powell has no place in a playoff team being a starter, as he is undersize to play SF. Look around at the starting lineup of teams, please let me know who he will replace:
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?sort=MIN&dir=1


1. Powell averaged 16.0 PPG last season on 62.4% TS (18.7 PPG on 65.3% TS as a starter) on a team with the second best record in the league, so he definitely has a place on a playoff team, especially as a starter (or more specifically, playing next to far better players).

2. You do know he can (and should) play SG, right?

3. Dallas (DFS), Golden State (1 of Wiggins/Oubre Jr.), LA Lakers (Matthews), Memphis (Brooks), New Orleans (Ball). Common denominator between all of those teams is that they are weak at SG right now (or could use more shooting) and they all have superstar players that Powell can easily complement and play off of.

Your idea of Powell being unwanted trash is easily debunked (he fits on multiple teams on paper), you have no clue what kind of player he is (you don't even seem to know something as basic as his natural position which is SG), and your assessment of him is coloured purely by recency bias + ludicrously small sample size (and even that shows that he's playing better as a starter).
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#47 » by Indeed » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:54 am

lebron stopper wrote:
Indeed wrote:
lebron stopper wrote:
Yes, I watched. He punished the Kings over and over again for leaving him open.

He's an off-ball player (shooter/cutter/rim runner/etc.), not a shot creator, and that's okay. There's another team that will want that skillset.



Didn't you just say he was bad as a starter?



That's precisely what he did as a starter last season.

There are teams that will want to trade for players like Powell who can make an impact without needing the ball.


That is not true, playoff teams want a lockdown or scoring guard. Powell has no place in a playoff team being a starter, as he is undersize to play SF. Look around at the starting lineup of teams, please let me know who he will replace:
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?sort=MIN&dir=1


1. Powell averaged 16.0 PPG last season on 62.4% TS (18.7 PPG on 65.3% TS as a starter) on a team with the second best record in the league, so he definitely has a place on a playoff team, especially as a starter (or more specifically, playing next to far better players).

2. You do know he can (and should) play SG, right?

3. Dallas (DFS), Golden State (1 of Wiggins/Oubre Jr.), LA Lakers (Matthews), Memphis (Brooks), New Orleans (Ball). Common denominator between all of those teams is that they are weak at SG right now (or could use more shooting) and they all have superstar players that Powell can easily complement and play off of.

Your idea of Powell being unwanted trash is easily debunked (he fits on multiple teams on paper), you have no clue what kind of player he is (you don't even seem to know something as basic as his natural position which is SG), and your assessment of him is coloured purely by recency bias + ludicrously small sample size (and even that shows that he's playing better as a starter).


He plays like a wing, not SG. Ross is more a SG than Powell slashing.
Meanwhile, those playoff teams you mention have better defender than Powell. 6'8 DFS and Wiggins/Oubre are bigger and longer (6'8 vs 6'4), Matthews is a lockdown defender, while Ball is a PG (assist / TO ratio). You ask those teams if they want Powell, they will laugh at you. There is a reason we start VanVleet/Lowry over Powell.
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#48 » by lebron stopper » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:42 am

Indeed wrote:
lebron stopper wrote:
Indeed wrote:
That is not true, playoff teams want a lockdown or scoring guard. Powell has no place in a playoff team being a starter, as he is undersize to play SF. Look around at the starting lineup of teams, please let me know who he will replace:
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?sort=MIN&dir=1


1. Powell averaged 16.0 PPG last season on 62.4% TS (18.7 PPG on 65.3% TS as a starter) on a team with the second best record in the league, so he definitely has a place on a playoff team, especially as a starter (or more specifically, playing next to far better players).

2. You do know he can (and should) play SG, right?

3. Dallas (DFS), Golden State (1 of Wiggins/Oubre Jr.), LA Lakers (Matthews), Memphis (Brooks), New Orleans (Ball). Common denominator between all of those teams is that they are weak at SG right now (or could use more shooting) and they all have superstar players that Powell can easily complement and play off of.

Your idea of Powell being unwanted trash is easily debunked (he fits on multiple teams on paper), you have no clue what kind of player he is (you don't even seem to know something as basic as his natural position which is SG), and your assessment of him is coloured purely by recency bias + ludicrously small sample size (and even that shows that he's playing better as a starter).


He plays like a wing, not SG. Ross is more a SG than Powell slashing.
Meanwhile, those playoff teams you mention have better defender than Powell. 6'8 DFS and Wiggins/Oubre are bigger and longer (6'8 vs 6'4), Matthews is a lockdown defender, while Ball is a PG (assist / TO ratio). You ask those teams if they want Powell, they will laugh at you. There is a reason we start VanVleet/Lowry over Powell.


DFS/Wiggins/Oubre/Ball are bench players who are forced to start, Matthews is extremely ancient at this point, and you've implicitly admitted that Powell is a better option than Brooks by not mentioning him (looks like we found a potential trade partner in the Grizzlies!). All of those teams would happily welcome the shooting and cutting abilities that Powell brings to the table to complement their stars. In fact, Warriors/Mavs/Grizzlies/Pels are all bottom 11 in three-point shooting percentage - Powell can help those teams with his shooting. Hard to laugh at a team that offers you a good player that shores up one of your weaknesses.

Raptors start VanVleet because he's being groomed as Lowry's replacement, not because Powell is bad. Again, he put up 18.7 PPG on 65.3% TS as a starter last season, so being bad is clearly not the reason why Powell doesn't start. You haven't been able to argue against these numbers after multiple replies, and yet somehow you still try to argue and pretend that Powell is undesirable for some reason.
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#49 » by Indeed » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:11 pm

lebron stopper wrote:
Indeed wrote:
lebron stopper wrote:
1. Powell averaged 16.0 PPG last season on 62.4% TS (18.7 PPG on 65.3% TS as a starter) on a team with the second best record in the league, so he definitely has a place on a playoff team, especially as a starter (or more specifically, playing next to far better players).

2. You do know he can (and should) play SG, right?

3. Dallas (DFS), Golden State (1 of Wiggins/Oubre Jr.), LA Lakers (Matthews), Memphis (Brooks), New Orleans (Ball). Common denominator between all of those teams is that they are weak at SG right now (or could use more shooting) and they all have superstar players that Powell can easily complement and play off of.

Your idea of Powell being unwanted trash is easily debunked (he fits on multiple teams on paper), you have no clue what kind of player he is (you don't even seem to know something as basic as his natural position which is SG), and your assessment of him is coloured purely by recency bias + ludicrously small sample size (and even that shows that he's playing better as a starter).


He plays like a wing, not SG. Ross is more a SG than Powell slashing.
Meanwhile, those playoff teams you mention have better defender than Powell. 6'8 DFS and Wiggins/Oubre are bigger and longer (6'8 vs 6'4), Matthews is a lockdown defender, while Ball is a PG (assist / TO ratio). You ask those teams if they want Powell, they will laugh at you. There is a reason we start VanVleet/Lowry over Powell.


DFS/Wiggins/Oubre/Ball are bench players who are forced to start, Matthews is extremely ancient at this point, and you've implicitly admitted that Powell is a better option than Brooks by not mentioning him (looks like we found a potential trade partner in the Grizzlies!). All of those teams would happily welcome the shooting and cutting abilities that Powell brings to the table to complement their stars. In fact, Warriors/Mavs/Grizzlies/Pels are all bottom 11 in three-point shooting percentage - Powell can help those teams with his shooting. Hard to laugh at a team that offers you a good player that shores up one of your weaknesses.

Raptors start VanVleet because he's being groomed as Lowry's replacement, not because Powell is bad. Again, he put up 18.7 PPG on 65.3% TS as a starter last season, so being bad is clearly not the reason why Powell doesn't start. You haven't been able to argue against these numbers after multiple replies, and yet somehow you still try to argue and pretend that Powell is undesirable for some reason.


Is Memphis a playoffs team.
Meanwhile, you said those players are bench players, by what? You determine Powell is not a bench player, while those others are bench players? Those being biggers are for defense purpose, and we saw Oubre being a better defender than Powell on the last game.

Meanwhile, we start VanVleet because he is simply producing, we need that production as a starter on both end, and the production from Powell is bad. How Powell got 65.3% TS? Transition, that is not some kind of offense we want to rely on to. We want a creator in VanVleet. It is just a matter of time, Davis will be ahead of Powell, simply Davis can create off the dribble and provide assist, while Powell can only settle for catch and shoot in the half court, where Davis can also do that.
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#50 » by lebron stopper » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:01 pm

Indeed wrote:Is Memphis a playoffs team.


They have Ja Morant and Jaren Jackson Jr. so I don't see why not.

Indeed wrote:Meanwhile, you said those players are bench players, by what?


They're not very good players? Powell's TS% last season was far better than any of theirs, that's for sure.

Indeed wrote:Meanwhile, we start VanVleet because he is simply producing, we need that production as a starter on both end, and the production from Powell is bad. How Powell got 65.3% TS? Transition, that is not some kind of offense we want to rely on to. We want a creator in VanVleet. It is just a matter of time, Davis will be ahead of Powell, simply Davis can create off the dribble and provide assist, while Powell can only settle for catch and shoot in the half court, where Davis can also do that.


You just contradicted yourself again. And Powell didn't score 18.7 PPG on 65.3% TS as a starter purely off of fast break points, that's more nonsense.

Powell will get traded to a team that needs shooting, and the Raptors will recoup some assets in the process and finally move on from him.
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#52 » by Indeed » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:15 pm

lebron stopper wrote:
Indeed wrote:Is Memphis a playoffs team.


They have Ja Morant and Jaren Jackson Jr. so I don't see why not.

Indeed wrote:Meanwhile, you said those players are bench players, by what?


They're not very good players? Powell's TS% last season was far better than any of theirs, that's for sure.

Indeed wrote:Meanwhile, we start VanVleet because he is simply producing, we need that production as a starter on both end, and the production from Powell is bad. How Powell got 65.3% TS? Transition, that is not some kind of offense we want to rely on to. We want a creator in VanVleet. It is just a matter of time, Davis will be ahead of Powell, simply Davis can create off the dribble and provide assist, while Powell can only settle for catch and shoot in the half court, where Davis can also do that.


You just contradicted yourself again. And Powell didn't score 18.7 PPG on 65.3% TS as a starter purely off of fast break points, that's more nonsense.

Powell will get traded to a team that needs shooting, and the Raptors will recoup some assets in the process and finally move on from him.


They are not very good players while Powell simply based on TS% can claim he is a better player? That is more non-sense to me. Look at other advance stats, ORtg, BPM, he is a negative.

Meanwhile, I did not contradict myself, and his ORtg is horrible this year. Our defense isn't ranked well, and Powell couldn't contribute. Simply put, he is limited. He is the size of SG, and we play VanVleet over him. He is plays the SF slashing role, and we play OG over him. There is a reason we did not play him a lot of minutes this season. We have better option even our depth isn't that strong.
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#53 » by lebron stopper » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:52 pm

Indeed wrote:Look at other advance stats, ORtg, BPM


Just did that for the players you claim are better than Powell, and it turns out all of them (expect DFS maybe) have worse metrics than Powell for this season and for last season.

Indeed wrote:Meanwhile, I did not contradict myself


Yes, you did. You said he can't produce, then proceeded to cite his sky-high TS% in the very next sentence, which directly refutes your own point.

Indeed wrote:Simply put, he is limited.


He's not as limited as you make him out to be. You don't get 60%+ TS as a guard by being terrible.
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#54 » by Indeed » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:05 pm

lebron stopper wrote:
Indeed wrote:Look at other advance stats, ORtg, BPM


Just did that for the players you claim are better than Powell, and it turns out all of them (expect DFS maybe) have worse metrics than Powell for this season and for last season.

Indeed wrote:Meanwhile, I did not contradict myself


Yes, you did. You said he can't produce, then proceeded to cite his sky-high TS% in the very next sentence, which directly refutes your own point.

Indeed wrote:Simply put, he is limited.


He's not as limited as you make him out to be. You don't get 60%+ TS as a guard by being terrible.


Oh please, the TS% does not reflect himself can produce as a creator. When you look at his % of FG Ast'd this year, over 80% of his shots are assisted. His 4rd year being the lease assisted on his 2P scoring with 40% being assisted has a TS % of 50%. That number indicate him being limited on creating his own shot.

A 60% TS as a guard does not necessarily mean he can create his own shot, and we gave him those end of shot clock last year and I believe one earlier this year, and ended up with a low efficient shot.

As for the other players I mentioned, they are SF size, which I already said earlier (6'8 vs Powell only at 6'4). If you said Powell is a guard, then why you think Powell can replace them?

I would really like to see who is interested in Powell, I just don't think he is a replacement to any playoff teams at the starting position, and if he is not a 6th man, I am unsure teams would want a 10m player to be the 7th or 8th option.
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#55 » by Indeed » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:08 pm

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612761&CF=MIN*G*10

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612761&CF=MIN*G*10&GroupQuantity=3
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#56 » by canz55 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:55 pm

CoinTossRoss31 wrote:
canz55 wrote:
stanch sabonis wrote:
Look good? What is the best case scenario for this team? A first round exit? That's preferable to having a top pick in a loaded draft? lol
I'd like a top pick as much as the next person but we're not bad enough to get a lottery pick.

I thought that trading Lowry or him getting injured would virtually guarantee a bottom finish but I'm not convinced the Raps would finish the season in the basement even with FVV and Norman/Mccaw running the guard.
.



I disagree. We lost to GS who won't make the playoffs, and Portland who will probably be somewhere from 5-10 in the west..
Its not statistically plausible that the Raptors keep losing all these close games for the remainder of the season. There are 62 games left to play - many of these last-minute misses we've been seeing will eventually turn into made shots.
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Re: Raps 2-8 .. next 10 games 

Post#57 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:06 pm

Indeed wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612761&CF=MIN*G*10

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612761&CF=MIN*G*10&GroupQuantity=3


:lol:

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