ImageImageImageImageImage

The Raptors Have Lost Toronto

Moderators: Patman, pbj, Alfred, Duffman100, Morris_Shatford, DG88, Rhettmatic, niQ

User avatar
OakleyDokely
RealGM
Posts: 17,522
And1: 38,393
Joined: Aug 02, 2008
Location: 416
 

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#121 » by OakleyDokely » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:43 pm

No numbers or facts to back up a wild statement. Yup I'm on the right board.
dagger
RealGM
Posts: 38,930
And1: 11,503
Joined: Aug 19, 2002
         

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#122 » by dagger » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:57 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:As a seasons ticket holder who has lived through the dark times, I thoroughly disagree. Everyone in this town is down for the tank. I often talk Raps with the cashier at the local grocery store I shop at daily, and he just concurred.

It's no different than your typical strike year. Except we still get to watch promising young players develop on TV.


Absolutely, also a season seat holder since Vince was a rookie. Whatever the team's outcome, I have seen far worse. I have seen seasons with literally no hope for the near- to mid-term future, where, looking out 2-3 years, a .500 record would have been a remarkable achievement. Think of the Vince trade season, the Babcock years, Bosh leaving, etc. Compared to that, this team, while obviously flawed - the centre situation is the most desperate I can remember since 2002-03 when we must have gone through a half dozen big men, and there isn't a proper closer like Kawhi - we have a young core under contract, and if we end up adding a future key piece via the draft, we also have a development system in place that is second to none. I feel that if you plugged a half-decent rotation C into the lineup to counter bigs on the other team, we can pretty much beat anyone on any night. For a 2-8 team, we have a ridiculously small -1.9 point differential, better than a number of teams currently sitting in early playoff spots. Even if this season proves to be a write-off, it's not going to be one without hope.
2019 will never be forgotten because FLAGS FLY FOREVER
Raps1103
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,676
And1: 2,058
Joined: Jan 30, 2018
   

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#123 » by Raps1103 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:01 pm

Trolls gonna troll ... but .. if you put that you’re a “raptors fan” in your bio .. the Mods won’t ban you for trolling n baiting ... loop hole !!!
TravisScott55
Rookie
Posts: 1,141
And1: 1,685
Joined: Aug 23, 2017
   

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#124 » by TravisScott55 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:14 pm

Don't know one player on the Leafs besides Matthews.
Raptaz
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,765
And1: 1,597
Joined: Jul 02, 2015
         

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#125 » by Raptaz » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:15 pm

Raps1103 wrote:Trolls gonna troll ... but .. if you put that you’re a “raptors fan” in your bio .. the Mods won’t ban you for trolling n baiting ... loop hole !!!



Mods lock it up there are no numbers out yet to support another wild claim.

Mods lock it up
User avatar
dillio
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,258
And1: 1,051
Joined: Dec 12, 2005
Location: Slums of Shaolin

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#126 » by dillio » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:36 pm

Can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a thread with a stupid take go for 7 pages with almost every comment saying the same thing. I almost wonder if OP is a plant to generate some unity in the fanbase.
mtcan
RealGM
Posts: 15,150
And1: 10,709
Joined: May 19, 2001

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#127 » by mtcan » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:06 pm

OP enjoys being dunked on...over and over and over again. It is a special way to get attention...mostly negative attention but attention nonetheless.
User avatar
Hero
RealGM
Posts: 36,404
And1: 51,722
Joined: Apr 05, 2012
Location: Edward Gardens
 

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#128 » by Hero » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:44 pm

This thread title really caught my eye.
Image
User avatar
vini_vidi_vici
RealGM
Posts: 14,551
And1: 15,460
Joined: Jun 29, 2006
 

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#129 » by vini_vidi_vici » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:46 pm

This is the Raps RGM version of Q-Anon.
Image
iDRTG is terrible.
User avatar
vini_vidi_vici
RealGM
Posts: 14,551
And1: 15,460
Joined: Jun 29, 2006
 

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#130 » by vini_vidi_vici » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:51 pm

dagger wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:As a seasons ticket holder who has lived through the dark times, I thoroughly disagree. Everyone in this town is down for the tank. I often talk Raps with the cashier at the local grocery store I shop at daily, and he just concurred.

It's no different than your typical strike year. Except we still get to watch promising young players develop on TV.


Absolutely, also a season seat holder since Vince was a rookie. Whatever the team's outcome, I have seen far worse. I have seen seasons with literally no hope for the near- to mid-term future, where, looking out 2-3 years, a .500 record would have been a remarkable achievement. Think of the Vince trade season, the Babcock years, Bosh leaving, etc. Compared to that, this team, while obviously flawed - the centre situation is the most desperate I can remember since 2002-03 when we must have gone through a half dozen big men, and there isn't a proper closer like Kawhi - we have a young core under contract, and if we end up adding a future key piece via the draft, we also have a development system in place that is second to none. I feel that if you plugged a half-decent rotation C into the lineup to counter bigs on the other team, we can pretty much beat anyone on any night. For a 2-8 team, we have a ridiculously small -1.9 point differential, better than a number of teams currently sitting in early playoff spots. Even if this season proves to be a write-off, it's not going to be one without hope.


The original tWo thread was in relation to a team that was capped out had not made the POs (in a league where > half the teams do), had just traded for Rudy Gay, and the only glimmer of hope was the NET rating of the starters in that period of time post-trade.

This team just went to the second round last yr and took the Cs to 7 games. Granted this season has started off miserably, but this is nothing copared to those dark days. TO further your point, I think alot of us have been fans going back to Isiah breaking through that paper cut out, we have seen some of the NBAs worst teams all time. This team is nowhere close to that, and I think a few transactions could get us back to competing again.

Im not sure im down for stripping assets (depending on the value ofcourse), but were only 10 games into the season, so that can change obviously.
Image
iDRTG is terrible.
User avatar
Young_Buc
General Manager
Posts: 9,014
And1: 8,322
Joined: Aug 26, 2003
Location: Puff Daddy's House
   

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#131 » by Young_Buc » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:56 pm

Gsptheman has been coming into threads the past 3 years telling us how much more popular the leafs are than the Raptors. Sorry man, I work in education and for the past 10 years in the GTA it hasn't been REMOTELY close amongst young people.

There's a reason Toronto became a D1 basketball factory.
Image
tecumseh18
RealGM
Posts: 13,114
And1: 5,381
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Location: Big green house
 

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#132 » by tecumseh18 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:18 pm

vini_vidi_vici wrote:
dagger wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:As a seasons ticket holder who has lived through the dark times, I thoroughly disagree. Everyone in this town is down for the tank. I often talk Raps with the cashier at the local grocery store I shop at daily, and he just concurred.

It's no different than your typical strike year. Except we still get to watch promising young players develop on TV.


Absolutely, also a season seat holder since Vince was a rookie. Whatever the team's outcome, I have seen far worse. I have seen seasons with literally no hope for the near- to mid-term future, where, looking out 2-3 years, a .500 record would have been a remarkable achievement. Think of the Vince trade season, the Babcock years, Bosh leaving, etc. Compared to that, this team, while obviously flawed - the centre situation is the most desperate I can remember since 2002-03 when we must have gone through a half dozen big men, and there isn't a proper closer like Kawhi - we have a young core under contract, and if we end up adding a future key piece via the draft, we also have a development system in place that is second to none. I feel that if you plugged a half-decent rotation C into the lineup to counter bigs on the other team, we can pretty much beat anyone on any night. For a 2-8 team, we have a ridiculously small -1.9 point differential, better than a number of teams currently sitting in early playoff spots. Even if this season proves to be a write-off, it's not going to be one without hope.


The original tWo thread was in relation to a team that was capped out had not made the POs (in a league where > half the teams do), had just traded for Rudy Gay, and the only glimmer of hope was the NET rating of the starters in that period of time post-trade.

This team just went to the second round last yr and took the Cs to 7 games. Granted this season has started off miserably, but this is nothing copared to those dark days. TO further your point, I think alot of us have been fans going back to Isiah breaking through that paper cut out, we have seen some of the NBAs worst teams all time. This team is nowhere close to that, and I think a few transactions could get us back to competing again.

Im not sure im down for stripping assets (depending on the value ofcourse), but were only 10 games into the season, so that can change obviously.


Different sport, but while the Jays in the middle of the 2015 season were below .500, their run differential and some advanced metrics were closer to that of an elite team. And a few trades (giving up about 10 pitchers) later, with Stroman coming back STRONG, Jays ended up being the best team in baseball until Brett Cecil went down. I don't follow hockey at all, but apparently the St. Louis Blues did something similar two years ago.

Yeah, the Raps core is strong - a souped-up race car looking for a driver. But we don't have the assets to trade right now for a Harden/Beal-type star. It's more tempting to have a fallow year, accumulate assets and come back strong in a year or two (when my seasons tickets would be useful again). But can we lose with such good players? Maybe, if we get rid of Lowry for picks and trade ballast, and only play the rest 30 minutes per game. And keep starting Baynes or Len.
"Say asterisk one more time, m_____rf_____r!"
Slade3
Pro Prospect
Posts: 975
And1: 273
Joined: Oct 27, 2009

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#133 » by Slade3 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:34 pm

Pooh_Jeter wrote:
NBJ13 wrote:Interesting take that i don't agree with at all


What don't you agree with? It's one thing if the Raptors started off strong, but a terrible start, being in Tampa and likely dealing the consensus GOAT in Raptors history is going to be a huge blow to visibility and excitement surrounding the franchise.

I didn't even mention that Masai seems very reluctant to even commit to the team.


Translation: I have no proof that the Raptors have lost Toronto.
User avatar
Pooh_Jeter
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,885
And1: 6,352
Joined: Apr 29, 2008

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#134 » by Pooh_Jeter » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:16 pm

The proof will be in the TV ratings and the attendance/merchandising numbers which isn't possible since the NHL season just started and the baseball season is a month and a half away. This is how predictions work, of course the numbers while the Raptors were the toast of the town were strong. If I took the 2015-16 Blue Jays numbers they would clearly eclipse the Raptors. The Leafs outdraw the Raptors 95% of the time when it comes to TV ratings even when they are good.

TV ratings work in trends, you don't see the ratings drop all at once. Because the Raptors may cede their territory on top to the Leafs and Jays doesn't mean they will suddenly be left without fans or support.

"The Blue Jays on Sportsnet averaged 500,000 viewers in 2020, up 23% year-over-year, and reached 9.8 million Canadians (27% of the population)."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2020/10/04/mlb-sees-local-tv-and-streaming-viewership-up-over-4-for-2020/?sh=7d844ce43dac

I believe so far this season the highest rated Raptors game was at 635K.

You can disagree with my point, but at least understand what my point is first.
DatHomieYouHaTe
Analyst
Posts: 3,478
And1: 1,867
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
       

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#135 » by DatHomieYouHaTe » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:20 pm

Image
Image
TURBOZONE PAGE: http://turbozone.ca
Danny1616
Head Coach
Posts: 7,342
And1: 9,629
Joined: May 26, 2007

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#136 » by Danny1616 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:26 pm

Pooh_Jeter wrote:The proof will be in the TV ratings and the attendance/merchandising numbers which isn't possible since the NHL season just started and the baseball season is a month and a half away. This is how predictions work, of course the numbers while the Raptors were the toast of the town were strong. If I took the 2015-16 Blue Jays numbers they would clearly eclipse the Raptors. The Leafs outdraw the Raptors 95% of the time when it comes to TV ratings even when they are good.

TV ratings work in trends, you don't see the ratings drop all at once. Because the Raptors may cede their territory on top to the Leafs and Jays doesn't mean they will suddenly be left without fans or support.

"The Blue Jays on Sportsnet averaged 500,000 viewers in 2020, up 23% year-over-year, and reached 9.8 million Canadians (27% of the population)."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2020/10/04/mlb-sees-local-tv-and-streaming-viewership-up-over-4-for-2020/?sh=7d844ce43dac

I believe so far this season the highest rated Raptors game was at 635K.

You can disagree with my point, but at least understand what my point is first.


Again, you fail to realize that your thread was about "TORONTO" and not "ONTARIO" or "CANADA AS A WHOLE."

Any area outside of the Greater Toronto Area, Leafs and Jays easily eclipse the Raptors, but that's not what your thread was about.

Will the Raptors lose Toronto? No, they never will. The Raptors are arguably the most popular sports team for millennials and minorities living in the GTA. This will continue to increase in the future as most die hard puck fans are the Generation X and baby boomer crowds.

Are the Leafs and Jays way more popular than the Raptors in cities outside of the GTA and Ontario? Yeah, no ****. If you lived here you would know that.
User avatar
vini_vidi_vici
RealGM
Posts: 14,551
And1: 15,460
Joined: Jun 29, 2006
 

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#137 » by vini_vidi_vici » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:27 pm

Pooh_Jeter wrote:The proof will be in the TV ratings and the attendance/merchandising numbers which isn't possible since the NHL season just started and the baseball season is a month and a half away. This is how predictions work, of course the numbers while the Raptors were the toast of the town were strong. If I took the 2015-16 Blue Jays numbers they would clearly eclipse the Raptors. The Leafs outdraw the Raptors 95% of the time when it comes to TV ratings even when they are good.

TV ratings work in trends, you don't see the ratings drop all at once. Because the Raptors may cede their territory on top to the Leafs and Jays doesn't mean they will suddenly be left without fans or support.

"The Blue Jays on Sportsnet averaged 500,000 viewers in 2020, up 23% year-over-year, and reached 9.8 million Canadians (27% of the population)."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2020/10/04/mlb-sees-local-tv-and-streaming-viewership-up-over-4-for-2020/?sh=7d844ce43dac

I believe so far this season the highest rated Raptors game was at 635K.

You can disagree with my point, but at least understand what my point is first.


So your argument would then be, The Raptors have lost Canada, not Toronto then.

Also what are the streaming numbers?? Merchandising?? TV contracts?? revenue (per game/s played)?? Exposure?? etc..
Image
iDRTG is terrible.
dagger
RealGM
Posts: 38,930
And1: 11,503
Joined: Aug 19, 2002
         

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#138 » by dagger » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:27 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:
vini_vidi_vici wrote:
dagger wrote:
Absolutely, also a season seat holder since Vince was a rookie. Whatever the team's outcome, I have seen far worse. I have seen seasons with literally no hope for the near- to mid-term future, where, looking out 2-3 years, a .500 record would have been a remarkable achievement. Think of the Vince trade season, the Babcock years, Bosh leaving, etc. Compared to that, this team, while obviously flawed - the centre situation is the most desperate I can remember since 2002-03 when we must have gone through a half dozen big men, and there isn't a proper closer like Kawhi - we have a young core under contract, and if we end up adding a future key piece via the draft, we also have a development system in place that is second to none. I feel that if you plugged a half-decent rotation C into the lineup to counter bigs on the other team, we can pretty much beat anyone on any night. For a 2-8 team, we have a ridiculously small -1.9 point differential, better than a number of teams currently sitting in early playoff spots. Even if this season proves to be a write-off, it's not going to be one without hope.


The original tWo thread was in relation to a team that was capped out had not made the POs (in a league where > half the teams do), had just traded for Rudy Gay, and the only glimmer of hope was the NET rating of the starters in that period of time post-trade.

This team just went to the second round last yr and took the Cs to 7 games. Granted this season has started off miserably, but this is nothing copared to those dark days. TO further your point, I think alot of us have been fans going back to Isiah breaking through that paper cut out, we have seen some of the NBAs worst teams all time. This team is nowhere close to that, and I think a few transactions could get us back to competing again.

Im not sure im down for stripping assets (depending on the value ofcourse), but were only 10 games into the season, so that can change obviously.



Different sport, but while the Jays in the middle of the 2015 season were below .500, their run differential and some advanced metrics were closer to that of an elite team. And a few trades (giving up about 10 pitchers) later, with Stroman coming back STRONG, Jays ended up being the best team in baseball until Brett Cecil went down. I don't follow hockey at all, but apparently the St. Louis Blues did something similar two years ago.

Yeah, the Raps core is strong - a souped-up race car looking for a driver. But we don't have the assets to trade right now for a Harden/Beal-type star. It's more tempting to have a fallow year, accumulate assets and come back strong in a year or two (when my seasons tickets would be useful again). But can we lose with such good players? Maybe, if we get rid of Lowry for picks and trade ballast, and only play the rest 30 minutes per game. And keep starting Baynes or Len.



It's an interesting dilemma. David Thorpe watched the Portland game and tweeted that if the Raptors don't fall into the trap of believing they cannot win close games, they could become a "seriously good" playoff team. He cited as an example the 2016-17 Miami team that starting 10-31 and then reversed those numbers to finish 31-10 (only that left them in 9th place).
2019 will never be forgotten because FLAGS FLY FOREVER
User avatar
Pooh_Jeter
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,885
And1: 6,352
Joined: Apr 29, 2008

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#139 » by Pooh_Jeter » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:31 pm

Danny1616 wrote:
Pooh_Jeter wrote:The proof will be in the TV ratings and the attendance/merchandising numbers which isn't possible since the NHL season just started and the baseball season is a month and a half away. This is how predictions work, of course the numbers while the Raptors were the toast of the town were strong. If I took the 2015-16 Blue Jays numbers they would clearly eclipse the Raptors. The Leafs outdraw the Raptors 95% of the time when it comes to TV ratings even when they are good.

TV ratings work in trends, you don't see the ratings drop all at once. Because the Raptors may cede their territory on top to the Leafs and Jays doesn't mean they will suddenly be left without fans or support.

"The Blue Jays on Sportsnet averaged 500,000 viewers in 2020, up 23% year-over-year, and reached 9.8 million Canadians (27% of the population)."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2020/10/04/mlb-sees-local-tv-and-streaming-viewership-up-over-4-for-2020/?sh=7d844ce43dac

I believe so far this season the highest rated Raptors game was at 635K.

You can disagree with my point, but at least understand what my point is first.


Again, you fail to realize that your thread was about "TORONTO" and not "ONTARIO" or "CANADA AS A WHOLE."

Any area outside of the Greater Toronto Area, Leafs and Jays easily eclipse the Raptors, but that's not what your thread was about.

Will the Raptors lose Toronto? No, they never will. The Raptors are arguably the most popular sports team for millennials and minorities living in the GTA.

Are the Leafs and Jays way more popular than the Raptors in cities outside of the GTA and Ontario? Yeah, no ****. If you lived here you would know that.


"The Raptors are arguably the most popular sports team for millennials and minorities living in the GTA."

First, you just acknowledged it's arguable. Secondly, it's not just milennnials and visible minorities who live in the GTA and they certainly don't support the Raptors at a 100% rate.

You debunked your own argument.
User avatar
Brinbe
RealGM
Posts: 44,541
And1: 16,804
Joined: Feb 26, 2005
Location: Terana
         

Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#140 » by Brinbe » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:33 pm

Nah. Don't agree with this take.
Image

Return to Toronto Raptors