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The Raptors Have Lost Toronto

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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#101 » by gsptheman » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:03 am

omar36 wrote:fans will follow whoever is doing good lol.


unless its the leafs
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#102 » by omar36 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:05 am

gsptheman wrote:
omar36 wrote:fans will follow whoever is doing good lol.


unless its the leafs


sell out every year and would fill jurassic park just as well if they actually prgoressed lol. casual toronto fans dont care lol, i still know some hat think raptors are a legit contender and thier excited for them in the playoffs
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#103 » by Danny1616 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:10 am

Pooh_Jeter wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
Pooh_Jeter wrote:Its unfortunate that instead of respectfully disagreeing with someone's opinion you have people denigrating where I live and that I didn't come from a rich family who brought me to Raptors games regularly. Trying to use where my immigrant parents chose to raise me as some sort of negative is uncalled for. I've actually seen the Raptors live multiple times when they have come out West.


1) Being wealthy doesn't have anything to do with this. I am not wealthy, and maybe go to 1 Raptors game a year (in the 300 level). Literally everyone in my friends circle are die hard Raptors fan. You go to more multi-cultural cities right outside Toronto like Mississauga, Brampton, Scarborough, Markham etc. and basketball is easily the most popular sport. Literally, everyone here knows and supports the Raptors, doesn't matter if you are young or old etc. You will see people wearing Raptors gear everyday if you go outside. You see Raptors flags/symbols on cars/licence plates, on buildings etc.

Only if you go outside the Greater Toronto Area where it's much more homogeneous is hockey easily the #1 sport.

2) Yes, you are not from the GTA. I've been in Vancouver where basketball isn't even close to as popular. The Canucks reign supreme. I have a friend that moved from Toronto to Vancouver and even has difficulty getting a Raptors game turned on at a local bar. This is nothing against Vancouver, it's an incredible and beautiful city, but you just don't understand how popular basketball is in Toronto.

Toronto is a basketball powerhouse and has cemented itself as a top 5 NBA city along with LA, New York, Chicago and Philadelphia.


Basketball fandom doesn't equate directly to Raptors fandom. There is nothing in my post stating that basketball isn't popular or growing in Canada, its specific to the Raptors. They still have that championship glow, but it will quickly evaporate if the conditions don't improve.

How is it that you can speak definitively about the landscape of sports and basketball in Vancouver because of a friend, but i can't speak about a team I've followed for 20+ years and have multiple friends/family in the area?

With hockey starting up again and baseball on the near horizon the Raptors ratings and visibility will absolutely drop.


Your thread was that the "Raptors have lost Toronto."

Of course if a team sucks, viewership will go down, that's with any sport team in any city.

But the Raptors are way too big, and way too popular to ever "lose Toronto." As multiple have stated even from 2004-2013, when the Raptors were horrible nearly every season, the Raptors still did very well in terms of attendance and viewership. Over the past 7 years basketball has exploded with team success. It doesn't just go away.

It's widely known that basketball doesn't come close to hockey in Vancouver, that's not even a topic for debate.
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#104 » by Danny1616 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:18 am

gsptheman wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
Pooh_Jeter wrote:
The thing is, the Leafs have been mostly bad for essentially decades now and there has been little to no erosion in terms of fan support. As much as their first round exits have been a laughing stock, they ignite the city when they are even remotely good.

The Blue Jays have seen a dip in fan support no doubt, but I think Canada wide they have quite a following still and we saw that the moment they became relevant again the fan support sky rocketed.

No doubt the Raptors have been very successful, but they don't have the built in fan base those other two teams have. They NEED that star power and success to be at the top of the food chain. Being ehhh just doesn't cut it.


Raptors were still one of the top teams in attendance even in the Bargnani era.

Raptors fan base is huge and secure around the GTA.

Immigrants, minorities and young people easily prefer the Raptors over the Leafs.

You clearly don't live in the GTA.

All you have to do is look at the explosion of basketball talent and youth basketball programs over the past decade. The GTA has built a powerhouse basketball program that rivals some of the best cities in America. You see homegrown talent entering the NBA draft nearly every year.


brah raptors were struggling in the late 2000s attendance was **** and I think one of the seasons there TV ratings were like 50,000 viewers for season opener. Leafs fans were forced to buy raptors season tickets yall forget that?
Who said minorities are more into raptors? please stop making up these stuff up, if that was the case by now leafs would be finished since 50% of GTA is born outside of canada and yet raptors are not even close to jays popularity forget about the leafs. not even close...


Raptors were 13th in the league in attendance in 2007.

Raptors were 9th in in the league in attendance in 2008.

Raptors were 10th in the league in attendance in 2009.

Raptors were 14th in the league in attendance in 2010.

So even when the Raptors sucked, they were still in the top third in the league or so in attendance.

Also, my argument was EXCLUSIVELY TO THE GTA. I clearly stated that in areas outside of the GTA, hockey (and baseball) reign supreme. Yeah if you go to Ottawa or Hamilton or Barrie or Oshawa or London or Windsor etc. of course hockey is still #1. In the GTA basketball is just as popular as hockey.

Also, don't just make up stats that Raptors only had 50,000 viewers for a season opener. Here is an article from 2008.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2008/02/15/raptors_gaining_rapidly_with_tv_viewers.html

Meanwhile, the Toronto Raptors are experiencing double-digit increases even though the team's record is no better than it was at this time last year.

We're talking some pretty impressive increases here: up 51 per cent on Sportsnet (165,000 average), 28 per cent on The Score (120,000) and 6 per cent on TSN (158,000). And though the accuracy of digital ratings is somewhat suspect, Raptors NBA TV has seen its average audiences (68,000) almost triple.

Overall, ratings are up 34 per cent, marking the second successive season of double-digit increases.

No matter how you read the entrails, some of that Raptors growth has to be at the expense of the Leafs. After all, those abandoning the Blue and White are more likely to move to a local basketball team than poker.


So you are plain wrong and provided no data/evidence to back up your statements. In fact, during the period in which the Raptors sucked and would only win 25-30 games, ratings and subscriptions to Raptors TV increased.
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#105 » by gsptheman » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:19 am

Danny1616 wrote:
Pooh_Jeter wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
1) Being wealthy doesn't have anything to do with this. I am not wealthy, and maybe go to 1 Raptors game a year (in the 300 level). Literally everyone in my friends circle are die hard Raptors fan. You go to more multi-cultural cities right outside Toronto like Mississauga, Brampton, Scarborough, Markham etc. and basketball is easily the most popular sport. Literally, everyone here knows and supports the Raptors, doesn't matter if you are young or old etc. You will see people wearing Raptors gear everyday if you go outside. You see Raptors flags/symbols on cars/licence plates, on buildings etc.

Only if you go outside the Greater Toronto Area where it's much more homogeneous is hockey easily the #1 sport.

2) Yes, you are not from the GTA. I've been in Vancouver where basketball isn't even close to as popular. The Canucks reign supreme. I have a friend that moved from Toronto to Vancouver and even has difficulty getting a Raptors game turned on at a local bar. This is nothing against Vancouver, it's an incredible and beautiful city, but you just don't understand how popular basketball is in Toronto.

Toronto is a basketball powerhouse and has cemented itself as a top 5 NBA city along with LA, New York, Chicago and Philadelphia.


Basketball fandom doesn't equate directly to Raptors fandom. There is nothing in my post stating that basketball isn't popular or growing in Canada, its specific to the Raptors. They still have that championship glow, but it will quickly evaporate if the conditions don't improve.

How is it that you can speak definitively about the landscape of sports and basketball in Vancouver because of a friend, but i can't speak about a team I've followed for 20+ years and have multiple friends/family in the area?

With hockey starting up again and baseball on the near horizon the Raptors ratings and visibility will absolutely drop.


Your thread was that the "Raptors have lost Toronto."

Of course if a team sucks, viewership will go down, that's with any sport team in any city.

But the Raptors are way too big, and way too popular to ever "lose Toronto." As multiple have stated even from 2004-2013, when the Raptors were horrible nearly every season, the Raptors still did very well in terms of attendance and viewership. Over the past 7 years basketball has exploded with team success. It doesn't just go away.

It's widely known that basketball doesn't come close to hockey in Vancouver, that's not even a topic for debate.



Brah you are right every sports team viewership goes down when they are not good, unless its the leafs. Leafs have been the laughing stock for the past 50 years yet there setting new viewership records every season in your city where you say minorities don't watch hockey LMAO.... Raptors 2011 season opener had 50,000 TV viewers and it might me going there now if they dont start winning fast
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#106 » by Danny1616 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:21 am

gsptheman wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
Pooh_Jeter wrote:
Basketball fandom doesn't equate directly to Raptors fandom. There is nothing in my post stating that basketball isn't popular or growing in Canada, its specific to the Raptors. They still have that championship glow, but it will quickly evaporate if the conditions don't improve.

How is it that you can speak definitively about the landscape of sports and basketball in Vancouver because of a friend, but i can't speak about a team I've followed for 20+ years and have multiple friends/family in the area?

With hockey starting up again and baseball on the near horizon the Raptors ratings and visibility will absolutely drop.


Your thread was that the "Raptors have lost Toronto."

Of course if a team sucks, viewership will go down, that's with any sport team in any city.

But the Raptors are way too big, and way too popular to ever "lose Toronto." As multiple have stated even from 2004-2013, when the Raptors were horrible nearly every season, the Raptors still did very well in terms of attendance and viewership. Over the past 7 years basketball has exploded with team success. It doesn't just go away.

It's widely known that basketball doesn't come close to hockey in Vancouver, that's not even a topic for debate.



Brah you are right every sports team viewership goes down when they are not good, unless its the leafs. Leafs have been the laughing stock for the past 50 years yet there setting new viewership records every season in your city where you say minorities don't watch hockey LMAO.... Raptors 2011 season opener had 50,000 TV viewers and it might me going there now if they dont start winning fast


Read my post above.

You were wrong.

And to repeat, the Leafs are the most popular team when you consider Ontario as a whole. But Raptors are just as popular in the GTA. How hard is that for you to understand?

Read my post clearly.

Ontario has a population of nearly 15 million. About 6 million live in the GTA area. So yes of course the Leafs are #1 when you consider the Ontario province as a whole, lol. Literally everyone outside of the GTA are exclusively Leafs and Jays fans (except Ottawa area and eastern parts that like the Senators). You go to London or Oshawa or Peterborough or Barrie etc. then yeah of course there will mostly be leaf fans.

I also not once said minorities don't watch hockey. I said that minorities generally like basketball more. Don't throw words I never said.
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#107 » by gsptheman » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:29 am

Danny1616 wrote:
gsptheman wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
Raptors were still one of the top teams in attendance even in the Bargnani era.

Raptors fan base is huge and secure around the GTA.

Immigrants, minorities and young people easily prefer the Raptors over the Leafs.

You clearly don't live in the GTA.

All you have to do is look at the explosion of basketball talent and youth basketball programs over the past decade. The GTA has built a powerhouse basketball program that rivals some of the best cities in America. You see homegrown talent entering the NBA draft nearly every year.


brah raptors were struggling in the late 2000s attendance was **** and I think one of the seasons there TV ratings were like 50,000 viewers for season opener. Leafs fans were forced to buy raptors season tickets yall forget that?
Who said minorities are more into raptors? please stop making up these stuff up, if that was the case by now leafs would be finished since 50% of GTA is born outside of canada and yet raptors are not even close to jays popularity forget about the leafs. not even close...


Raptors were 13th in the league in attendance in 2007.

Raptors were 9th in in the league in attendance in 2008.

Raptors were 10th in the league in attendance in 2009.

Raptors were 14th in the league in attendance in 2010.

So even when the Raptors sucked, they were still in the top third in the league or so in attendance.

Also, my argument was EXCLUSIVELY TO THE GTA. I clearly stated that in areas outside of the GTA, hockey (and baseball) reign supreme. Yeah if you go to Ottawa or Hamilton or Barrie or Oshawa or London or Windsor etc. of course hockey is still #1. In the GTA basketball is just as popular as hockey.

Also, don't just make up stats that Raptors only had 50,000 viewers for a season opener. Here is an article from 2008.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2008/02/15/raptors_gaining_rapidly_with_tv_viewers.html

Meanwhile, the Toronto Raptors are experiencing double-digit increases even though the team's record is no better than it was at this time last year.

We're talking some pretty impressive increases here: up 51 per cent on Sportsnet (165,000 average), 28 per cent on The Score (120,000) and 6 per cent on TSN (158,000). And though the accuracy of digital ratings is somewhat suspect, Raptors NBA TV has seen its average audiences (68,000) almost triple.

Overall, ratings are up 34 per cent, marking the second successive season of double-digit increases.

No matter how you read the entrails, some of that Raptors growth has to be at the expense of the Leafs. After all, those abandoning the Blue and White are more likely to move to a local basketball team than poker.


So you are plain wrong and provided no data/evidence to back up your statements. In fact, during the period in which the Raptors sucked and would only win 25-30 games, ratings and subscriptions to Raptors TV increased.


I dont think you live in the GTA ior go downtown much. When Leafs and raptors are playing the same night 90% bars in the GTA will have leafs on main screen with volume and maybe like 1 corner small TV for the raps...im saying this from experince pisses me off tho to be honest
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#108 » by Danny1616 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:31 am

gsptheman wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
gsptheman wrote:
brah raptors were struggling in the late 2000s attendance was **** and I think one of the seasons there TV ratings were like 50,000 viewers for season opener. Leafs fans were forced to buy raptors season tickets yall forget that?
Who said minorities are more into raptors? please stop making up these stuff up, if that was the case by now leafs would be finished since 50% of GTA is born outside of canada and yet raptors are not even close to jays popularity forget about the leafs. not even close...


Raptors were 13th in the league in attendance in 2007.

Raptors were 9th in in the league in attendance in 2008.

Raptors were 10th in the league in attendance in 2009.

Raptors were 14th in the league in attendance in 2010.

So even when the Raptors sucked, they were still in the top third in the league or so in attendance.

Also, my argument was EXCLUSIVELY TO THE GTA. I clearly stated that in areas outside of the GTA, hockey (and baseball) reign supreme. Yeah if you go to Ottawa or Hamilton or Barrie or Oshawa or London or Windsor etc. of course hockey is still #1. In the GTA basketball is just as popular as hockey.

Also, don't just make up stats that Raptors only had 50,000 viewers for a season opener. Here is an article from 2008.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2008/02/15/raptors_gaining_rapidly_with_tv_viewers.html

Meanwhile, the Toronto Raptors are experiencing double-digit increases even though the team's record is no better than it was at this time last year.

We're talking some pretty impressive increases here: up 51 per cent on Sportsnet (165,000 average), 28 per cent on The Score (120,000) and 6 per cent on TSN (158,000). And though the accuracy of digital ratings is somewhat suspect, Raptors NBA TV has seen its average audiences (68,000) almost triple.

Overall, ratings are up 34 per cent, marking the second successive season of double-digit increases.

No matter how you read the entrails, some of that Raptors growth has to be at the expense of the Leafs. After all, those abandoning the Blue and White are more likely to move to a local basketball team than poker.


So you are plain wrong and provided no data/evidence to back up your statements. In fact, during the period in which the Raptors sucked and would only win 25-30 games, ratings and subscriptions to Raptors TV increased.


I dont think you live in the GTA ior go downtown much. When Leafs and raptors are playing the same night 90% bars in the GTA will have leafs on main screen with volume and maybe like 1 corner small TV for the raps...im saying this from experince pisses me off tho to be honest


Again, not as true in recent years. That was true more in the early 2010s for sure. I noticed big shifts in downtown bars putting on Raptors games around 2016.

Also the GTA doesn't just encompass downtown Toronto. If you go to Mississauga, Brampton, Scarborough or Markham you will see that the Raptors are just as big. That is not to say that the Leafs aren't big either in those areas. Again I never said that people who watch the Raptors don't also watch the Leafs. And of course, there are still many die hard Leafs fans everywhere.
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#109 » by gsptheman » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:34 am

Danny1616 wrote:
gsptheman wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
Your thread was that the "Raptors have lost Toronto."

Of course if a team sucks, viewership will go down, that's with any sport team in any city.

But the Raptors are way too big, and way too popular to ever "lose Toronto." As multiple have stated even from 2004-2013, when the Raptors were horrible nearly every season, the Raptors still did very well in terms of attendance and viewership. Over the past 7 years basketball has exploded with team success. It doesn't just go away.

It's widely known that basketball doesn't come close to hockey in Vancouver, that's not even a topic for debate.



Brah you are right every sports team viewership goes down when they are not good, unless its the leafs. Leafs have been the laughing stock for the past 50 years yet there setting new viewership records every season in your city where you say minorities don't watch hockey LMAO.... Raptors 2011 season opener had 50,000 TV viewers and it might me going there now if they dont start winning fast


Read my post above.

You were wrong.

And to repeat, the Leafs are the most popular team when you consider Ontario as a whole. But Raptors are just as popular in the GTA. How hard is that for you to understand?

Read my post clearly.

Ontario has a population of nearly 15 million. About 6 million live in the GTA area. So yes of course the Leafs are #1 when you consider the Ontario province as a whole, lol. Literally everyone outside of the GTA are exclusively Leafs and Jays fans (except Ottawa area and eastern parts that like the Senators). You go to London or Oshawa or Peterborough or Barrie etc. then yeah of course there will mostly be leaf fans.

I also not once said minorities don't watch hockey. I said that minorities generally like basketball more. Don't throw words I never said.


no there not bro show me some number, go compare leafs and raptors local tv ratings in southern ontario. Leafs get like 4 times as much even now when they havent won anything whereas raptors are champions. Facts are facts bro
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#110 » by Danny1616 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:37 am

gsptheman wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
gsptheman wrote:

Brah you are right every sports team viewership goes down when they are not good, unless its the leafs. Leafs have been the laughing stock for the past 50 years yet there setting new viewership records every season in your city where you say minorities don't watch hockey LMAO.... Raptors 2011 season opener had 50,000 TV viewers and it might me going there now if they dont start winning fast


Read my post above.

You were wrong.

And to repeat, the Leafs are the most popular team when you consider Ontario as a whole. But Raptors are just as popular in the GTA. How hard is that for you to understand?

Read my post clearly.

Ontario has a population of nearly 15 million. About 6 million live in the GTA area. So yes of course the Leafs are #1 when you consider the Ontario province as a whole, lol. Literally everyone outside of the GTA are exclusively Leafs and Jays fans (except Ottawa area and eastern parts that like the Senators). You go to London or Oshawa or Peterborough or Barrie etc. then yeah of course there will mostly be leaf fans.

I also not once said minorities don't watch hockey. I said that minorities generally like basketball more. Don't throw words I never said.


no there not bro show me some number, go compare leafs and raptors local tv ratings in southern ontario. Leafs get like 4 times as much even now when they havent won anything whereas raptors are champions. Facts are facts bro


You keep missing the point of my argument. Of course the Leafs pull better ratings when they are more popular in every city outside of the GTA, How many times do I have to repeat myself?

Facts are facts? Like every fact that you’ve gotten wrong?

As I said among millennials and minority groups IN THE GTA , Raptors are just as popular. For the older demographic (the 40 and above crowd) and people living outside the GTA, it’s the Leafs.
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#111 » by gsptheman » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:41 am

Danny1616 wrote:
gsptheman wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
Raptors were 13th in the league in attendance in 2007.

Raptors were 9th in in the league in attendance in 2008.

Raptors were 10th in the league in attendance in 2009.

Raptors were 14th in the league in attendance in 2010.

So even when the Raptors sucked, they were still in the top third in the league or so in attendance.

Also, my argument was EXCLUSIVELY TO THE GTA. I clearly stated that in areas outside of the GTA, hockey (and baseball) reign supreme. Yeah if you go to Ottawa or Hamilton or Barrie or Oshawa or London or Windsor etc. of course hockey is still #1. In the GTA basketball is just as popular as hockey.

Also, don't just make up stats that Raptors only had 50,000 viewers for a season opener. Here is an article from 2008.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2008/02/15/raptors_gaining_rapidly_with_tv_viewers.html



So you are plain wrong and provided no data/evidence to back up your statements. In fact, during the period in which the Raptors sucked and would only win 25-30 games, ratings and subscriptions to Raptors TV increased.


I dont think you live in the GTA ior go downtown much. When Leafs and raptors are playing the same night 90% bars in the GTA will have leafs on main screen with volume and maybe like 1 corner small TV for the raps...im saying this from experince pisses me off tho to be honest


Again, not as true in recent years. That was true more in the early 2010s for sure. I noticed big shifts in downtown bars putting on Raptors games around 2016.

Also the GTA doesn't just encompass downtown Toronto. If you go to Mississauga, Brampton, Scarborough or Markham you will see that the Raptors are just as big. That is not to say that the Leafs aren't big either in those areas. Again I never said that people who watch the Raptors don't also watch the Leafs. And of course, there are still many die hard Leafs fans everywhere.


brah im brown from mississuga got lots of friends and fasmily in brampton. all you have to do is go check out ball hockey leagues in brampton and mississauga and you will understand. 90% brown players, even shinny hockey has loads of brown players and than go check out basketball games you will see 99% black players. dont just look at jurassic park and decide the demographic of teams. LOL
Leafs fan base is massive probably one of the biggest in sports and the most loyal for sure
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#112 » by gsptheman » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:44 am

Danny1616 wrote:
gsptheman wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
Read my post above.

You were wrong.

And to repeat, the Leafs are the most popular team when you consider Ontario as a whole. But Raptors are just as popular in the GTA. How hard is that for you to understand?

Read my post clearly.

Ontario has a population of nearly 15 million. About 6 million live in the GTA area. So yes of course the Leafs are #1 when you consider the Ontario province as a whole, lol. Literally everyone outside of the GTA are exclusively Leafs and Jays fans (except Ottawa area and eastern parts that like the Senators). You go to London or Oshawa or Peterborough or Barrie etc. then yeah of course there will mostly be leaf fans.

I also not once said minorities don't watch hockey. I said that minorities generally like basketball more. Don't throw words I never said.


no there not bro show me some number, go compare leafs and raptors local tv ratings in southern ontario. Leafs get like 4 times as much even now when they havent won anything whereas raptors are champions. Facts are facts bro


You keep missing the point of my argument. Of course the Leafs pull better ratings when they are more popular in every city outside of the GTA, How many times do I have to repeat myself?

Facts are facts? Like every fact that you’ve gotten wrong?

As I said among millennials and minority groups IN THE GTA , Raptors are just as popular. For the older demographic (the 40 and above crowd) and people living outside the GTA, it’s the Leafs.


I said local TV ratings which are southern ontario so if GTA has 6 million ppl and raptors are on par with the leafs the TV ratings should be close but there not, go do research before commenting
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#113 » by Clay Davis » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:49 am

Danny1616 wrote:
gsptheman wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
Raptors were 13th in the league in attendance in 2007.

Raptors were 9th in in the league in attendance in 2008.

Raptors were 10th in the league in attendance in 2009.

Raptors were 14th in the league in attendance in 2010.

So even when the Raptors sucked, they were still in the top third in the league or so in attendance.

Also, my argument was EXCLUSIVELY TO THE GTA. I clearly stated that in areas outside of the GTA, hockey (and baseball) reign supreme. Yeah if you go to Ottawa or Hamilton or Barrie or Oshawa or London or Windsor etc. of course hockey is still #1. In the GTA basketball is just as popular as hockey.

Also, don't just make up stats that Raptors only had 50,000 viewers for a season opener. Here is an article from 2008.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2008/02/15/raptors_gaining_rapidly_with_tv_viewers.html



So you are plain wrong and provided no data/evidence to back up your statements. In fact, during the period in which the Raptors sucked and would only win 25-30 games, ratings and subscriptions to Raptors TV increased.


I dont think you live in the GTA ior go downtown much. When Leafs and raptors are playing the same night 90% bars in the GTA will have leafs on main screen with volume and maybe like 1 corner small TV for the raps...im saying this from experince pisses me off tho to be honest


Again, not as true in recent years. That was true more in the early 2010s for sure. I noticed big shifts in downtown bars putting on Raptors games around 2016.

Also the GTA doesn't just encompass downtown Toronto. If you go to Mississauga, Brampton, Scarborough or Markham you will see that the Raptors are just as big. That is not to say that the Leafs aren't big either in those areas. Again I never said that people who watch the Raptors don't also watch the Leafs. And of course, there are still many die hard Leafs fans everywhere.


Even during the 2019 play-offs, bars would play the Leafs on the best TVs and the Raptors on one (if that). Of course, that changed once the Leafs were eliminated. You simply can't compare seven decades of history with a couple.

Look, I think that the Raptors were more popular for a small stretch, but it was an abberation; if the Leafs were a 6th-8th seed, they'd generate magnitudes more attention in this city than the Raptors being a 1st-3rd seed.
We talkin' 'bout money laundering? In WEST BALTIMORE?!
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#114 » by omar36 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:54 am

Danny1616 wrote:
gsptheman wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
Your thread was that the "Raptors have lost Toronto."

Of course if a team sucks, viewership will go down, that's with any sport team in any city.

But the Raptors are way too big, and way too popular to ever "lose Toronto." As multiple have stated even from 2004-2013, when the Raptors were horrible nearly every season, the Raptors still did very well in terms of attendance and viewership. Over the past 7 years basketball has exploded with team success. It doesn't just go away.

It's widely known that basketball doesn't come close to hockey in Vancouver, that's not even a topic for debate.



Brah you are right every sports team viewership goes down when they are not good, unless its the leafs. Leafs have been the laughing stock for the past 50 years yet there setting new viewership records every season in your city where you say minorities don't watch hockey LMAO.... Raptors 2011 season opener had 50,000 TV viewers and it might me going there now if they dont start winning fast


Read my post above.

You were wrong.

And to repeat, the Leafs are the most popular team when you consider Ontario as a whole. But Raptors are just as popular in the GTA. How hard is that for you to understand?

Read my post clearly.

Ontario has a population of nearly 15 million. About 6 million live in the GTA area. So yes of course the Leafs are #1 when you consider the Ontario province as a whole, lol. Literally everyone outside of the GTA are exclusively Leafs and Jays fans (except Ottawa area and eastern parts that like the Senators). You go to London or Oshawa or Peterborough or Barrie etc. then yeah of course there will mostly be leaf fans.

I also not once said minorities don't watch hockey. I said that minorities generally like basketball more. Don't throw words I never said.



yup which tho i doubt you or I have the actual evidence (doubt anyone keeps track), i agree with ya. this is coming from a minority (south asian) that loves hockey much more then i do basketball.

fact is basketball is super acessible for minorites and just in general. trying to convince my parents to get me into hockey , they could put my brother and I into soccer/basketball seasons for 2-3 years for one season of hockey lol. its super expensive and thus turns off alot of lower income/middle class parents. not to mention, not many south asians put there kids into violent sports like hockey or football, basketball or soccer is just more appealing.

just my 2 cents

tho HNIC has done a great job with punjabi announcers, its def helped build that community up.
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#115 » by Danny1616 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:58 am

[streamable][/streamable]
Clay Davis wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
gsptheman wrote:
I dont think you live in the GTA ior go downtown much. When Leafs and raptors are playing the same night 90% bars in the GTA will have leafs on main screen with volume and maybe like 1 corner small TV for the raps...im saying this from experince pisses me off tho to be honest


Again, not as true in recent years. That was true more in the early 2010s for sure. I noticed big shifts in downtown bars putting on Raptors games around 2016.

Also the GTA doesn't just encompass downtown Toronto. If you go to Mississauga, Brampton, Scarborough or Markham you will see that the Raptors are just as big. That is not to say that the Leafs aren't big either in those areas. Again I never said that people who watch the Raptors don't also watch the Leafs. And of course, there are still many die hard Leafs fans everywhere.


Even during the 2019 play-offs, bars would play the Leafs on the best TVs and the Raptors on one (if that). Of course, that changed once the Leafs were eliminated. You simply can't compare seven decades of history with a couple.

Look, I think that the Raptors were more popular for a small stretch, but it was an abberation; if the Leafs were a 6th-8th seed, they'd generate magnitudes more attention in this city than the Raptors being a 1st-3rd seed.


And I agree with most of what you say.

I also didn’t dispute that among the 40+ crowd and in areas outside the GTA, Leafs are easily more popular. That’s not up for debate.

However, I believe there is truth that among the millennial generation and for minority populations around the GTA, basketball is just as popular and growing.
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#116 » by Johnny Bball » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:07 am

Pooh_Jeter wrote:Its unfortunate that instead of respectfully disagreeing with someone's opinion you have people denigrating where I live and that I didn't come from a rich family who brought me to Raptors games regularly. Trying to use where my immigrant parents chose to raise me as some sort of negative is uncalled for. I've actually seen the Raptors live multiple times when they have come out West.


Please show me one post that denigrates vancouver or BC, or your parents or whatever else you want to pretend to be a victim about.

Pooh_Jeter wrote:I have friends and family who live in the GTA area. Ive been there plenty of times. Also, im not just relying on anecdotal trends. I actually did a minor in university on media and communication studies. Having a holistic understanding of media trends specifically regarding sports is where I'm inferring my conclusion about the Raptors potential place in the sporting landscape.

Let's be real a bunch of basketball fans on a basketball message board are certainly not going to be without their biases.


You're relying on even less than anecdotal trends and you know it.
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#117 » by agentzero2010 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:25 am

I’ve really grown disinterested in this team not because they suck, I actually think they might have a chance of clawing back to .500 and a play in seed at worst, it’s because the brand of basketball is boring. Raptors simply don’t have any exciting players to watch. There’s no high flying dunkers, or sharp shooters, or uniquely skilled players. DeMar had the mid range. Kawhi had the amazing 2-way game. I keep saying this but it’s just a bunch of tiny guys running around and shooting 3s, and bricking them more often than not. And what makes it even worse is that the entire court, sideline, backboard, stanchion, and seats are covered in ads. I get it, they need ad money but god damn, it’s way too much. And to top it off, we have one of the weirdest looking uniforms and we haven’t even worn the city or earned uniforms which are even worse if it resembles the 2k21 uniforms. I can’t be the only one that feels this way right? The entire raptors package is just not fun and not aesthetically pleasing to watch.
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#118 » by JYD » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:32 am

agentzero2010 wrote: I can’t be the only one that feels this way right? The entire raptors package is just not fun and not aesthetically pleasing to watch.


It's a down year, and a weird year, but every year can't be great. Good time to be a general fan of the NBA with an eye on how things flesh out with our team, looking forward to the deadline, next draft, etc.
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#119 » by Centre Court » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:38 pm

Sports viewership and ratings for all sports is down due to the pandemic and games played in empty venues. It’s not just Toronto or the Raptors. This is a once in a hundred year pandemic for god sakes.
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Re: The Raptors Have Lost Toronto 

Post#120 » by binjumper » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:39 pm

Pooh_Jeter wrote:I appreciate that everyone on a basketball forum enjoys basketball, but this is a larger ethnographic observation. With the NHL back and Spring Training not that far off I'd expect the TV ratings and overall social engagement for the Raptors to significantly drop.

The new jersey drop was a failure. You're already seeing sales on the jerseys. There needs to be a significant rethink around the organization.



You'd think with the massive amounts of jobs lost and the economy not looking too good right now. People rather use their money to put food on the table than buy a jersey. Read the room.
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