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Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#21 » by mojo13 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:04 am

Mirotic- what is your guess on the team Greece puts together?
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#22 » by Stromile12 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:14 pm

I just want to say that I hope we field a team with our best NBA players, time for Canada to get some respect.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#23 » by Mirotic12 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:41 pm

mojo13 wrote:Mirotic- what is your guess on the team Greece puts together?


Kostas Papanikolaou is very likely out, since he just had a back injury and a season ending surgery. It would seem to be just about impossible for him to be ready to play.

I assume that Ioannis Bourousis is also out, since he just had to quit basketball indefinitely, due to "personal issues". Although he didn't say that he has retired.

Everyone connected to the situation keeps saying it's very unlikely that Giannis plays.

I don't know about Giannis' brothers, since they will have hardly played much this season, I guess they might be able to play, if Pitino wanted them.

Michael Bramos said last year that he enjoys having his summers off, and he hasn't played with the national team for a long time, so I assume he isn't an option either.

Stratos Perperoglou seems to be retired apparently........

Some months back, the media was saying that Nikos Zisis was going to play again, but I haven't heard anything about it since. He was out for awhile with a knee injury. We will have to wait to see.

The federation officials, Rick Pitino, and the Greek media have been saying that Vassilis Spanoulis is going to play, but a couple weeks ago he said he won't decide for sure until after the season ends. He's had two straight devastating season ending foot injuries and surgeries in the last two seasons.

Supposedly, the injury is worse than an Achilles tear for basketball players, and takes about 2 years to fully recover from. And the rate of success for professional athletes to continue their career after just one such injury is about 10 percent. He's had two in the last 2 years, and actually he should have just now been cleared to play from the first injury he had 2 years ago. He's been on a very strict minutes restriction this whole season with Olympiacos. So who knows, maybe he wants to play and the coach wants him to, but maybe the doctors are saying no? We will have to wait to see.

It's hard to say now what the team would probably be, with some guys being out then, and I really have no idea what kind of selection an American coach, that spends all his time in the USA would come up with. He doesn't see 95% of the Greek players at all.

I would guess that the training camp will look something like this:

Guards:

Nick Calathes 6-6 PG (EuroLeague)
Nikos Zisis 6-6 PG/SG/SF (FIBA Champions League) (if available)
Lefteris Bochoridis 6-5 PG/SG/SF (EuroLeague)
Kostas Sloukas 6-3 PG (EuroLeague)

Vassilis Spanoulis 6-4 PG/SG (EuroLeague)
Giannoulis Larentzakis 6-5 SG/SF (EuroLeague)
Tyler Dorsey 6-5 SG/SF (EuroLeague)

Forwards:

Ioannis Papapetrou 6-9 SF (EuroLeague)
Leonidas Kaselakis 6-8 SF/PF (EuroLeague)
Thanasis Antetokounmpo 6-6 SF (NBA) (if available)

Georgios Printezis 6-9 PF/C (EuroLeague)
Linos Chrysikopoulos 6-10 PF (FIBA Champions League)
Dimitris Agravanis 6-10 PF/C (EuroCup)
Kostas Antetokounmpo 6-10 PF/C (NBA / G-League) (if available)

Centers:

Georgios Papagiannis 7-3 C (EuroLeague)
Dinos Mitoglou 6-11 PF/C (EuroLeague)
Kosta Koufos 7-0 C (EuroLeague)
Vassilis Kavvadas 6-9 C (FIBA Europe Cup)
Ioannis Bourousis 7-1 C (FIBA Champions League) (if available)

It's also possible that they select 1-2 players from this list of good 3 point shooters:

Nikos Gkikas 6-1 PG (FIBA Champions League)
Vassilis Toliopoulos 6-2 PG/SG (Greek League)
Antonis Koniaris 6-5 PG/SG (Greek League)
Ioannis Athinaiou 6-4 PG/SG (EuroCup)
Theodoros Zaras 6-6 SG/SF (Greek League)
Michael Bramos 6-6 SF (EuroCup) (if available)
Charis Giannopoulos 6-7 SG/SF (EuroCup)
Dusan Sakota 6-11 PF (free agent)


What I don't like is if they have like Papagiannis and Koufos as the main centers, and also Sloukas playing with them. That's a complete recipe for disaster on defense. Papgiannis can't cover on the perimeter and switches for the most part, although he does OK sometimes.

Sloukas and Koufos.......they are absolutely horrific level defenders, both individually, and also in a 2 man game. Bartzokas started them together and Pangos had 14 points in the first quarter, off 4 threes made. Because they are both so unbelievably bad at defense. Pangos was wide open the entire time Sloukas and Koufos were on the floor together. It would be better with Papagiannis, but still bad against lead guards that have deep shooting range.

Bourousis, if he played, would have the same issues on defense as Koufos. Bourousis used to be an athletic freak, but now he's old and enormously huge. He can't guard away from the paint anymore either.

So that's why I think they should have some bigs like Dimitris Agravanis and Vassilis Kavvadas in the training camp for Pitino to look at. Because they are bigs that can cover defensively on the perimeter very well. They are very good defenders all around.

Panathinaikos uses Dinos Mitoglou at center quite a bit, because he's better at covering defensively on the perimeter than Papagiannis and Zach Auguste (Auguste is also terrible away from the basket on defense). But he's not really adequate in that area either.

On the positive side, it's a really deep, versatile, and physical team. And other than the aforementioned centers, Kostas Sloukas, and Tyler Dorsey, everyone else on the team is a good defender. The only other problem I see with the team is Calathe's horrific level outside shooting, which has cost Greece in almost every single elimination game for going on years and years now. But maybe finally he might be on the bench in crucial moments, if Zisis and Spanoulis play.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#24 » by duppyy » Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:57 pm

I remember people were saying RJ wouldn’t even crack the Canadian team roster earlier this season, smh. He’s killing it recently.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#25 » by WaltFrazier » Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:39 pm

duppyy wrote:I remember people were saying RJ wouldn’t even crack the Canadian team roster earlier this season, smh. He’s killing it recently.


I was one of those, after we played the Knicks and he did very little. Good to see him playing great. What are the chances of him coming home to TO after his first contract ends?
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#26 » by Kenter16 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:01 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:Since you guys are speculating about Giannis...

It's highly unlikely that he plays at the qualification tournament. For the last year-and-a-half, Greece's coaches and federation officials have been saying over and over in the press that he won't be invited by the federation and won't be asked to play by the coaches.

And we all know that the Bucks don't want him to play. So the only way he plays is if he forces it and demands to play. Greece's coach Pitino said several times just recently that they are making no plans whatsoever with Giannis being included in the team.

So unless Giannis really, really wants to play, he's not playing.


My take on this is that Greece and Pitino are preparing for him to not be there. If he is available they will ask him and it will be up to him. It doesn't add up in my mind to say 'no thanks' to the reigning league MVP if he wants to play. Even if his game doesn't translate 100% to the FIBA game. Why would they not invite him? Personal beefs can only go so far when you are that talented.
That being said, I agree I think that there is a slim chance he will be in Victoria (or Seattle or Houston or Tampa Bay). Milwaukee has to get knocked out in the first round and he has to want to play. Both seem unlikely, so it seems really unlikely he shows up.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#27 » by mojo13 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:13 pm

Mirotic - appreciate the detailed response. Interesting to hear what's going on with Giannis.
Lots to work with for Greece and I keep forgetting the size Greece can bring to the floor at every position.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#28 » by kwajo » Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:10 pm

Felt this was relevant, and as a Maritimer I wanted to show my pride:

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#29 » by Kenter16 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:24 am

As the playoff picture in the NBA starts to take shape. Here is a look at the most likely NBA players to join Team Canada in the OQT.

Players who have contracts and are on teams that won't make a lengthy playoff run
RJ Barrett
Dillion Brooks
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (may have contract/insurance issues)
Nickeal Alexander-Walker
Chris Boucher (assuming the Raps pick up his option)


Same as above, but without a public commitment
Lugentz Dort
Brandon Clarke

Would like someone to ask these two if they plan to play. They will be available.

Contract, but possible playoff run
Jamal Murray
Andrew Wiggins
Michael Mulder (signed, but not guaranteed)
Tristan Thompson
Dwight Powell

The west is very tough and none of the teams these guys play for are likely to make a run. They will have to face the Suns, Lakers, Clippers or the Jazz in the first round and then one of the other 3 in the second round. That is tough.
Thompson is in trade rumours right now. Boston may need to include his contract to upgrade. Likely means if he gets dealt it's to a non playoff team.

Without a contract for 2021-22
Kelly Olynyk
Khem Birch
Trey Lyles
Cory Joesph (option will be declined IMO)

There is an argument to be made that Khem Birch and CoJo are better off playing and 'show casing' their talent. Maybe not a bad thing to lead your team to the Olympics a couple weeks before free agency opens. Not a guarantee that these two don't play.


Most probable lineup for OQT
SGA - Pangos
NAW
RJ - Brooks
Boucher
TT - Powell

That's a great start.
We could add - Wiggins, Murray, Birch, Dort, CoJo and Clarke. Not to mention the Euro guys to fill some holes. Andrew Nicholson may be needed if we can't find a centre.
We will most likely go to the OQT with the most talented team. That doesn't mean we win, but it means we have a good shot.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#30 » by TrueNorth31 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:33 pm

Lou Dort has had his final 2 years guaranteed which may help with his participation this summer. Previously his next 2 years were non guaranteed at $1.8 and $1.9 respectively. Given how good of a defender he is this is quite a good bargain for OKC . I'm not sure he's expressed a lot of interest in playing for Canada in the past , but now having guaranteed money in the bank for his future can only help.

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#31 » by Kenter16 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:53 pm

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Not a great quote from Murray, in terms of his availability for the OQT. He sounds like a guy who is exhausted. Might be a lot to ask of him to hop on a plane as soon as Denver loses in the playoffs to play for Canada.
Maybe I am reading too much into it. But, in my head, I am not expecting him to make the trip. SGA will have to lead the way.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#32 » by mojo13 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:08 pm

I'm quite skeptical of Murray as well. His history includes nursing plenty of summertime injuries as an excuse not to play for Team Canada. I really don't think we will see Murray in Victoria - but I do think that if we Qualify, it will be tough for him to skip on the Olympics. I'd welcome him, if it came to that (not something I'd say about more than 3 or 4 players).

Murray's issues makes it extra exciting to see Barrett evolve into a really good player. Out of the youngsters, he has the most ties to the program and I guess would be most likely to show up.

It also makes me look back on the decision to include an 18 year old SGA on the 2016 Manila Qualifier team as a very wise move by Nash/Rowan/Triano. I scoffed at it at the time as he wasn't a player that could help the team and there were better players available.

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#33 » by frumble » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:03 pm

mojo13 wrote:I'm quite skeptical of Murray as well. His history includes nursing plenty of summertime injuries as an excuse not to play for Team Canada. I really don't think we will see Murray in Victoria - but I do think that if we Qualify, it will be tough for him to skip on the Olympics. I'd welcome him, if it came to that (not something I'd say about more than 3 or 4 players).

Murray's issues makes it extra tasty to see Barrett evolve into a really good player. Out of the youngsters, he has the most ties to the program and I guess would be most likely to show up.

It also makes me look back on the decision to include an 18 year old SGA on the 2016 Manila Qualifier team as a very wise move by Nash/Rowan/Triano. I scoffed at it at the time as he wasn't a player that could help the team and there were better players available.

.


Yeah, I share your pessimism re Murray.

Re SGA, you think he is more likely to play for us in Victoria, or generally, because of the experience in 2016?
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#34 » by Kenter16 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:06 pm

frumble wrote:
mojo13 wrote:I'm quite skeptical of Murray as well. His history includes nursing plenty of summertime injuries as an excuse not to play for Team Canada. I really don't think we will see Murray in Victoria - but I do think that if we Qualify, it will be tough for him to skip on the Olympics. I'd welcome him, if it came to that (not something I'd say about more than 3 or 4 players).

Murray's issues makes it extra tasty to see Barrett evolve into a really good player. Out of the youngsters, he has the most ties to the program and I guess would be most likely to show up.

It also makes me look back on the decision to include an 18 year old SGA on the 2016 Manila Qualifier team as a very wise move by Nash/Rowan/Triano. I scoffed at it at the time as he wasn't a player that could help the team and there were better players available.

.


Yeah, I share your pessimism re Murray.

Re SGA, you think he is more likely to play for us in Victoria, or generally, because of the experience in 2016?


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There shouldn't be any pessimism towards Murray's commitment on the whole. Even though he didn't play in the world cup, he attended training camp. He couldn't practice because of an injury, but he was there with the team. That means something. It was likely the Nuggets who were the driving force in him not playing.
He will definitely be at the Olympics, if we get there. If he can get a couple weeks off before the OQT, he will probably be there. We should just plan on him not being there because that is not likely. Also, if its not against COVID protocol, he may be there even if he doesn't play.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#35 » by TrueNorth31 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:11 pm

If we do somehow qualify for the Olympics hopefully we can get invited to this thing as well.

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#36 » by Kenter16 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:42 pm

TrueNorth31 wrote:If we do somehow qualify for the Olympics hopefully we can get invited to this thing as well.

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Unlikely we would go. The final for the OQT is set for July 4. It would be great to see our guys against the world's best, but that's a lot to ask for these guys.


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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#37 » by TrueNorth31 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:55 pm

Kenter16 wrote:
TrueNorth31 wrote:If we do somehow qualify for the Olympics hopefully we can get invited to this thing as well.

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Unlikely we would go. The final for the OQT is set for July 4. It would be great to see our guys against the world's best, but that's a lot to ask for these guys.


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Perhaps the timing is too tight. Remember this isn't an official tournament per say, rather it appears to be a way for a group of teams to get together and play some games against each other in a comfortable environment for Team USA ( if you've ever been to NBA summer league it's readily apparent the NBA players absolutely love Vegas ). If we went ( would they even let us into the bubble ? ) we'd probably not show up until July 10/11, have a few practices/games/scrimmages and then move on when the other teams leave on July 16 ( or conversely we could show up July 7 and take a short break after July 16 ).

Yes, it's a big ask, but we need to be playing some exhibitions in the intervening 3 week period between Victoria and our first potential Olympic game on July 25/21 if we do somehow qualify . If we don't we're not going to have much success. I know one of the problems with the 2019 World Cup is that the NBA guys didn't want to spend 3 weeks training in Australia and then another 2 weeks in China ( Dwight Powell talked about this ). Instead of traipsing all over hell's half acre searching out games most of our players would probably prefer the Vegas model. One good thing is that Japan is not requiring a 2 week quarantine in country pre Olympics , rather they want athletes in/out as soon as possible.

Another question - do you bring in some new players after the qualification ? That's a real tough issue. Many more players would be potentially available, but at some point you have to reward loyalty and encourage cohesive team play. It's the age old conundrum in Fiba basketball - talent versus team play. Ideally you'd like to have both, but sometimes that's just not possible.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#38 » by TrueNorth31 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:04 pm

TrueNorth31 wrote:
Kenter16 wrote:
TrueNorth31 wrote:If we do somehow qualify for the Olympics hopefully we can get invited to this thing as well.

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Unlikely we would go. The final for the OQT is set for July 4. It would be great to see our guys against the world's best, but that's a lot to ask for these guys.


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Perhaps the timing is too tight, but remember this isn't an official tournament per say, rather it appears to be a way for a group of teams to get together and play some games against each other in a comfortable environment for Team USA ( if you've ever been to NBA summer league it's readily apparent the NBA players absolutely love Vegas ). If we went ( would they even let us into the bubble or would they even need a bubble by then ? ) we'd probably not show up until July 10/11, have a few practices/games/scrimmages and then move on when the other teams leave on July 16 ( or conversely we could show up July 7 and take a short break after July 16 ).

Yes, it's a big ask, but we need to be playing some exhibitions in the intervening 3 week period between Victoria and our first potential Olympic game on July 25/21 . If we don't we're not going to have much success. I know one of the problems with the 2019 World Cup is that the NBA guys didn't want to spend 3 weeks training in Australia and then another 2 weeks in China. Dwight Powell talked about this as to why he didn't go - the reason we did this was due to money. Canada Basketball doesn't have any and the Australian exhibition promoters paid our training expenses down under. The attraction of Vegas is that it would be relatively cheap expense wise. Instead of traipsing all over hell's half acre searching out games most of our players would probably prefer the Vegas model. One good thing is that Japan is not requiring a 2 week quarantine in country pre Olympics , rather they want athletes in/out as soon as possible.

Another question - do you bring in some new players after the qualification ? That's a real tough issue. Many more players would be potentially available, but at some point you have to reward loyalty and encourage cohesive team play. It's the age old conundrum in Fiba basketball - talent versus team play. Ideally you'd like to have both, but sometimes that's just not possible.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#39 » by aminiaturebuddha » Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:22 am

Wiggins with a monster stat line tonight in a win for Golden State without Curry - 40 pts, 8 rbds, 4 asts, 4 stls. He really seems to have turned a corner this year by playing within himself and finding a role on a team where he doesn't have to try to be "the man" and live up to the pressure of being a former number 1 overall pick.

If this more efficient and defence-oriented Wiggins is for real, he could really help the National Team. Hopefully he can be brought back into the fold.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#40 » by Mirotic12 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:50 pm

FIBA's rules about naturalized players do indeed appear to be arbitrary. This seems to support the claims from Spain's and Greece's federations. It appears to back up what those federations claimed, in that FIBA's rules on naturalized players are arbitrary and are applied differently for each national team. They claimed that teams like Spain and Greece won't be allowed to use even players that had citizenship and were in their country at age 14, two years before the stated age of 16 in FIBA's rules. As the Spanish and Greek federations claimed, even if players had full citizenship and were in their country at age 14 or 15, and were not naturalized, FIBA was not allowing them to play for their national teams now.

Then we have Nigeria, which seems to not have to adhere to these same rules at all. Not even the age 16 rule. Because this article talks about them having NBA players with no ties to the country and no parents or grandparents with ties to the country either, being able to take a naturalized spot under FIBA's rules. But as we know, each team is only supposed to get one such place.

OK, so if that is true for Nigeria also, how can they still have 10-12 players on their national team at major tournaments, that were not living in the country by before age 14 (as is supposedly being applied to Spain and Greece), or by age 16, as the rules of FIBA state? These are players that were born and raised in the USA, played high school and college basketball in the USA, are now in their 20s, and according to all info, have only lived in the USA..........

It doesn't add up. They have 10-12 players that never set foot in Nigeria, and yet they still have an open naturalized player spot that they have not even used?

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31097946/denver-nuggets-morris-commits-play-nigeria-internationally

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