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Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#261 » by mojo13 » Mon May 24, 2021 6:10 pm

Hair Canada wrote:I've watched quite a bit of Mulder this year and I guess I think a bit more highly of him (certainly more than someone like Darling). He's a very good shooter. Not a sure thing (then again, who is?), but when he's in his element he can knock them down even with a hand in his face. The other thing he does fairly well is move without the ball and cut to the rim. Had some nice athletic finishes on where teammates found him on the cut. Would certainly not put the ball in his hands to create, but that's not what he's supposed to do for Team Canada anyway. The defense was also not bad in the games I've watched, especially the point-of-attach defense. He has decent size and athleticism and can apply some pressure on the ball and stay with his man.

In short, I would definitely consider him as a specialized shooter from the bench, who can space the floor playing next guys who can also create like SGA, Pangos, CoJo, Brooks, Barrett, Wiggins, Dort, or NAW (more versatile but a less reliable shooter at this point). To be clear, I would take any of these 8 before Mulder. But if a few of them bail (or are still playing in the NBA post-season), then Mulder can fill the role that we once thought Stauskas would have on the team. Now, I can understand preferring someone like Aaron Best or Phil Scrubb for this role. The difference in contribution would probably not be that big and these guys already have a rich history with the NT and are in a sense more deserving. But Mulder should certainly be in the mix.


It is not as much deserving (but that is a small consideration), but I think there is added value in guys that are most familiar with FIBA, the Team Canada system and coaching. Further I think there is added value with some of the Euro guys being team leaders and having much more experience in high pressure, game on the line situations than end of the rotation NBA players on mediocre or bad teams. Mulder did play one 2019 WC Qualifier window so he is not a complete neophyte to the SMNT.

I can agree that Mychal Mulder in a vacuum is a better player than his role comparables in Phil Scrubb, Aaron Best or Kassius Robertson. But I think each brings something more to the table with their SMNT experience, FIBA experience, big-game/high-pressure experience and leadership capabilities. I am not really advocating for any of them - but just saying I somewhat put them in the same bucket. I'm not sure I'd have a concern whether one made the team over the other (throw Stauskas into that pool too). We have less than two weeks from camp starting (est. June 15) to the first Qualfier game - unless there is a overwhelming talent gap I think they really need to put a premium on the players that they can most quickly blend into a cohesive team.

I still think one of the better team building strategies here would be to take the 2019 WC team and swap out the bottom 4-6 Euro players for the best 4-6 NBA players we can corral. Maybe Boucher, Brissett, Olynyk who all trained with the WC team. Brooks who was hanging out with the team while injured and bring in a fresh face in Dort and (fingers crossed) Barrett/SGA.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#262 » by Hair Canada » Mon May 24, 2021 9:30 pm

mojo13 wrote:
Hair Canada wrote:I've watched quite a bit of Mulder this year and I guess I think a bit more highly of him (certainly more than someone like Darling). He's a very good shooter. Not a sure thing (then again, who is?), but when he's in his element he can knock them down even with a hand in his face. The other thing he does fairly well is move without the ball and cut to the rim. Had some nice athletic finishes on where teammates found him on the cut. Would certainly not put the ball in his hands to create, but that's not what he's supposed to do for Team Canada anyway. The defense was also not bad in the games I've watched, especially the point-of-attach defense. He has decent size and athleticism and can apply some pressure on the ball and stay with his man.

In short, I would definitely consider him as a specialized shooter from the bench, who can space the floor playing next guys who can also create like SGA, Pangos, CoJo, Brooks, Barrett, Wiggins, Dort, or NAW (more versatile but a less reliable shooter at this point). To be clear, I would take any of these 8 before Mulder. But if a few of them bail (or are still playing in the NBA post-season), then Mulder can fill the role that we once thought Stauskas would have on the team. Now, I can understand preferring someone like Aaron Best or Phil Scrubb for this role. The difference in contribution would probably not be that big and these guys already have a rich history with the NT and are in a sense more deserving. But Mulder should certainly be in the mix.


It is not as much deserving (but that is a small consideration), but I think there is added value in guys that are most familiar with FIBA, the Team Canada system and coaching. Further I think there is added value with some of the Euro guys being team leaders and having much more experience in high pressure, game on the line situations than end of the rotation NBA players on mediocre or bad teams. Mulder did play one 2019 WC Qualifier window so he is not a complete neophyte to the SMNT.

I can agree that Mychal Mulder in a vacuum is a better player than his role comparables in Phil Scrubb, Aaron Best or Kassius Robertson. But I think each brings something more to the table with their SMNT experience, FIBA experience, big-game/high-pressure experience and leadership capabilities. I am not really advocating for any of them - but just saying I somewhat put them in the same bucket. I'm not sure I'd have a concern whether one made the team over the other (throw Stauskas into that pool too). We have less than two weeks from camp starting (est. June 15) to the first Qualfier game - unless there is a overwhelming talent gap I think they really need to put a premium on the players that they can most quickly blend into a cohesive team.

I still think one of the better team building strategies here would be to take the 2019 WC team and swap out the bottom 4-6 Euro players for the best 4-6 NBA players we can corral. Maybe Boucher, Brissett, Olynyk who all trained with the WC team. Brooks who was hanging out with the team while injured and bring in a fresh face in Dort and (fingers crossed) Barrett/SGA.


Pretty much agree with you re Mulder.

As for your last paragraph, in principle, this sounds like the right thing to do. But I think it can get tricky if NBA turnout exceeds our expectations. Let's say that the best 6-7 out of that 2019 WC are CoJo, Birch, Pangos, Ejim, Wiltjer, and one of the Scrubbs (or both). What happens if all of SGA, Brooks, Barrett, Wiggins, Dort, and NAW want to play (in addition to CoJo and Pangos)? Do you turn one or two of them down in favor of a Scrubb? Probably not. And in the frontcourt, suppose in addition to Birch, three of Olynyk, Boucher, Powell, TT, Brissett, and Clarke want to play (in addition to Birch). Do you still prefer to go with Ejim/Wiltjer/Scrubb? Perhaps, but that's a tough call.

I suspect we won't get there (some guys are bound to not be available for various reasons). But I think it would be a challenge to go with Wiltjer if you have Boucher available or to take P. Scrubb over Dort.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#263 » by MixxSRC » Tue May 25, 2021 12:43 am

Wiggins commited.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#264 » by DeKobe DeBryant » Tue May 25, 2021 12:57 am

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- Credit to TurboZone for the signature!
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#265 » by TrueNorth31 » Tue May 25, 2021 1:05 am

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Great news - following in his mom's footsteps.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#266 » by Kenter16 » Tue May 25, 2021 1:17 am

Yes! Wiggins is in! He is very key with SGA and Murray out. He's our next best player, except maybe Kelly. This gives me hope that we will have a great turnout.

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#267 » by Kenter16 » Tue May 25, 2021 1:49 am

I wonder if this leads to some more public declarations.
We haven't heard from NAW yet. I would love to hear if he's in.
Has Boucher said if he is in or not? He was banged up a bit at the end of the season.
No word from Brisset yet.
Would love to hear the Cory is in...

Kenter16 wrote:Yes! Wiggins is in! He is very key with SGA and Murray out. He's our next best player, except maybe Kelly. This gives me hope that we will have a great turnout.

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#268 » by Got Nuffin » Tue May 25, 2021 2:19 am

Is Dillion Brooks available? Geez, that man is a beast when his shot is on, and would help offset the loss of Murray somewhat.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#269 » by aminiaturebuddha » Tue May 25, 2021 2:05 pm

Kenter16 wrote:Yes! Wiggins is in! He is very key with SGA and Murray out. He's our next best player, except maybe Kelly. This gives me hope that we will have a great turnout.

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I've been out of the loop for a few days. Is it confirmed that SGA is out? Just out for the qualifying tourney, or for the whole summer even if we qualify?

And yes, Wiggins is a good get. He's really learned to play within himself these past couple of years. And he still has a name and presence in the game that might help convince others to fully commit despite not fully living up to expectations as a former #1 overall draft pick.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#270 » by Kenter16 » Tue May 25, 2021 2:55 pm

aminiaturebuddha wrote:
Kenter16 wrote:Yes! Wiggins is in! He is very key with SGA and Murray out. He's our next best player, except maybe Kelly. This gives me hope that we will have a great turnout.

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I've been out of the loop for a few days. Is it confirmed that SGA is out? Just out for the qualifying tourney, or for the whole summer even if we qualify?

And yes, Wiggins is a good get. He's really learned to play within himself these past couple of years. And he still has a name and presence in the game that might help convince others to fully commit despite not fully living up to expectations as a former #1 overall draft pick.


SGA hasn't confirmed either way. His comments were that he needs to be 100% healthy to play. So, IMO that means he is likely to miss the OQT but be available for the Olympics. Just me reading into it.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#271 » by Kenter16 » Wed May 26, 2021 2:34 am

Well, this is interesting. There seems to be a possibility that there will be fans allowed in Victoria. It says July 1st is the earliest date. Maybe we can get 1000 people in there for the final.
The good news is that it seems like it will be able to proceed in Victoria. I had real doubts about this.

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#272 » by TrueNorth31 » Wed May 26, 2021 2:06 pm

Grange has a story up on the Wiggins announcement. There may be a formal list of invites out later this week.

"A formal list of training camp invitees will likely be announced sometime this week with the OQT barely a month out, but Wiggins’ announcement builds momentum. "

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article/andrew-wiggins-commitment-play-canada-significant-multiple-ways/
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#273 » by mojo13 » Wed May 26, 2021 2:12 pm

TrueNorth31 wrote:Grange has a story up on the Wiggins announcement. There may be a formal list of invites out later this week.

"A formal list of training camp invitees will likely be announced sometime this week with the OQT barely a month out, but Wiggins’ announcement builds momentum. "

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article/andrew-wiggins-commitment-play-canada-significant-multiple-ways/



No!
Not the invite list again...that was a cluster in 2019. Don’t do it!!

Seriously...what is the value in that?
Why not just wait until they are certain to avoid all the questions again?


Anyways...some semi good news in Kevin Pangos.

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#274 » by Jstock12 » Wed May 26, 2021 2:14 pm

mojo13 wrote:
TrueNorth31 wrote:Grange has a story up on the Wiggins announcement. There may be a formal list of invites out later this week.

"A formal list of training camp invitees will likely be announced sometime this week with the OQT barely a month out, but Wiggins’ announcement builds momentum. "

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article/andrew-wiggins-commitment-play-canada-significant-multiple-ways/



No!
Not the invite list again...that was a cluster in 2019. Don’t do it!!

Seriously...what is the value in that?
Why not just wait until they are certain to avoid all the questions again?


Anyways...some semi good news in Kevin Pangos.

Read on Twitter
?s=21


Pangos has been stellar in the Euroleague playoffs. Great news for team Canada.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#275 » by Mirotic12 » Wed May 26, 2021 2:58 pm

Why in the hell would Pangos sign with Barca? He won't get anywhere near the same playing time, touches, or shot attempts with Barca that he does with Zenit. He probably gets the same or more money in Zenit also. It would make no sense at all for him to sign with Barca.

I guess Barca just thought he would join them because he used to play for their head coach Jasikevicius? Even then it really makes no sense. His coach at Zenit (Pascual) is a great coach, and he lets Pangos do whatever he wants to.

The only reason would be if he wants to win a EuroLeague championship, but he's 28, so he still has time to chase that in 2 years. I wonder if Barca really made any offers, or if that's just Pangos' agent using them as leverage.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#276 » by Jstock12 » Wed May 26, 2021 3:08 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:Why in the hell would Pangos sign with Barca? He won't get anywhere near the same playing time, touches, or shot attempts with Barca that he does with Zenit. He probably gets the same or more money in Zenit also. It would make no sense at all for him to sign with Barca.

I guess Barca just thought he would join them because he used to play for their head coach Jasikevicius? Even then it really makes no sense. His coach at Zenit (Pascual) is a great coach, and he lets Pangos do whatever he wants to.

The only reason would be if he wants to win a EuroLeague championship, but he's 28, so he still has time to chase that in 2 years. I wonder if Barca really made any offers, or if that's just Pangos' agent using them as leverage.


It's almost confirmed that Jokubaitis will also sign a 4-year long contract with Barcelona, so that's another young and talented guard for Pangos to compete with for playing time. I guess Kevin didn't want to risk falling out of rotation like Heurtel did.

P.S. Jasikevicius is also an authoritarian coach, who can be pretty brutal verbally. Pangos might have had enough of that too. Pascual seems much more laid back.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#277 » by Kenter16 » Wed May 26, 2021 3:14 pm

Great news for KP! I had him on my roster anyways, but it all but confirms he will be in Victoria.
There is no reason to put a list of attendees out to the public, but it sounds like a FIBA requirement.

Now, we keep looking for confirmation from others. I watched the first half of the Celtics/Brooklyn game last night. TT is officially on watch list. A long playoff run is not in his future. With Birch already in tow, TT is our next best 5. I hope he makes his return to the National Team, he would be very useful.
Dallas is up on the Clippers and it looks like Doncic might lead the Mavs on a long run. Powell may be unavailable. Making TT more valuable.
Still want to hear from NAW and Chris Boucher. Cory probably has his hands tied at this point, so I don't think we will hear any commitment from him until the very last moment.

Guards - Pangos, Dort, CoJo, NAW
Wings - Brooks, Wiggins, Barrett, Brissett
Forwards/Center - Birch, Clarke, Powell, Tristan Thompson, Boucher
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#278 » by Mirotic12 » Wed May 26, 2021 4:07 pm

Kenter16 wrote:Was thinking about this last night after checking out the betting odds on the NBA title. The odds are not in Milwaukee's favour. Even Giannis said as much, which was a really weird comment from him. The most likely scenario is a second round loss to Brooklyn. That puts the Bucks season finishing no later than June 18th. Which would make the Antetokounmpo brothers available for the OQT. If they want to play, I can't imagine that Greece would say no.

Even in that article you linked to Pitino said this:
“They are a little busy right now,” the experienced head coach jokingly mentioned, “I asked them to forget about playing for Milwaukee and just come over here right now.”

Clearly Pitino is going to be asking Giannis to play if they are available. I think the odds of him playing are higher than we have stated on this board.


Thanasis has a knee injury, so he might not even be able to play. Besides, he's really not much of a loss for Greece. Even if him and Kostas Papanikoloau are both out with injuries at the small forward position, Greece can still just use Giannoulis Larentzakis and Ioannis Papapetrou at the 3 position. There is lots of depth at that position for Greece.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#279 » by frumble » Wed May 26, 2021 5:46 pm

The Wiggins commitment and Pangos contract signing are great news.

Which NBA playoff outcome(s) would be best for other commitments? A Memphis loss to Utah?
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#280 » by Kenter16 » Wed May 26, 2021 6:05 pm

frumble wrote:The Wiggins commitment and Pangos contract signing are great news.

Which NBA playoff outcome(s) would be best for other commitments? A Memphis loss to Utah?



Memphis and Knicks getting knocked out in the first round would be the most beneficial. That would get us Brooks and Barrett, with the potential of Clarke as well.

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