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Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#741 » by Mirotic12 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:35 pm

mojo13 wrote:I wrote a detailed response to this the other day but it seems to have been lost in the site crash. In short it seems clear you don't understand how the formula works and you should review it.

Teams are not penalized for missing the Olympics - at worst they miss out on the opportunity to gain points via wins. Nations can technically lose points in the Olympics with poor results. If the match points in a loss are below their current average it will reduce their ranking points. This happened to Nigeria from their three Olympic losses (They went from 439 to 429 points). And why Iran overtook Nigeria in the rankings (Iran moved up about 6 points, even though they lost all three). The Czechs who lost all three also went down in points (585 to 579) - but that is muddy as they played in the Qualifier as well. They clearly has some good historical match points time decay out.
Greece didn't drop in points b/c they missed the Olympics but because of the losses to Canada and the Czechs in the Qualifiers and time decay on past points (I can accept an argument that missing the Olympics or WCs puts you at the mercy of time decay and you will likely drop in points)

The major events and regions are already weighted from 2.5x for the World Cup all they way down to 0.3 for the Afrobasket (and weighted for pre-qualifiers, qualifiers as well). It almost follows the order you want above to a tee (except the it goes WC 2.5x, Olympics, 2.0x then Euros 1.0x).

The time decay also drops the historical results much as you ask with Year 6 & 7 results worth as little as 0.25x.
They have also already combined Oceania and Asia for WC qualifying.

Read it:
http://www.fiba.basketball/documents/rankingmen/howitworks


I read it. EuroBasket for example is the clearly highest level tournament, yet counts just third in the ratings........just one of several problems with the rankings system.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#742 » by UcanUwill » Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:19 pm

Cleveland Cavaliers interested in Kevin Pangos according to Lithuanian media.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#743 » by mojo13 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:44 pm

UcanUwill wrote:Cleveland Cavaliers interested in Kevin Pangos according to Lithuanian media.


Here is the read if anyone is interested.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/08/kevin-pangos-drawing-interest-from-cavaliers-others.html



And some other notable Euro signings over the past couple weeks:

Phil Scrubb heads back to the Russian VTB to sign with Avtodor. Good league, very mediocre club. He seems to be slowly declining in the quality of clubs he is joining. Perhaps now past his peak - although only 28.
However - he is a playing on a British passport and someone was telling me that with Brexit the British passport is losing some of its non-import quota status' among certain leagues. If he is having to play as a true import that probably impacts his pay and the quality of clubs he can land on.

Also Kyle Alexander is back with Fuenlabrada in Spain’s ACB for another season. He played really well in the Summer League and has a decent shot at some sort of contract or at least a camp invite. However, he had a deadline with Fuenlabrada to find an NBA contract by this past weekend which passed.

Owen Klassen signs with Basketball Löwen Braunschweig of the BBL. Middling club in a middle league. Meh.

MiKyle McIntosh heads to Australia's NBL to join the Tasmanian Jackjumpers. Not many Canadians ever in the NBL, so tough to tell if this is a move up/down/sideways. He was with ESSM Le Portel in the French Pro-A last season.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#744 » by Hair Canada » Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:41 pm

mojo13 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Cleveland Cavaliers interested in Kevin Pangos according to Lithuanian media.


Here is the read if anyone is interested.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/08/kevin-pangos-drawing-interest-from-cavaliers-others.html



And some other notable Euro signings over the past couple weeks:

Phil Scrubb heads back to the Russian VTB to sign with Avtodor. Good league, very mediocre club. He seems to be slowly declining in the quality of clubs he is joining. Perhaps now past his peak - although only 28.
However - he is a playing on a British passport and someone was telling me that with Brexit the British passport is losing some of its non-import quota status' among certain leagues. If he is having to play as a true import that probably impacts his pay and the quality of clubs he can land on.

Also Kyle Alexander is back with Fuenlabrada in Spain’s ACB for another season. He played really well in the Summer League and has a decent shot at some sort of contract or at least a camp invite. However, he had a deadline with Fuenlabrada to find an NBA contract by this past weekend which passed.

Owen Klassen signs with Basketball Löwen Braunschweig of the BBL. Middling club in a middle league. Meh.

MiKyle McIntosh heads to Australia's NBL to join the Tasmanian Jackjumpers. Not many Canadians ever in the NBL, so tough to tell if this is a move up/down/sideways. He was with ESSM Le Portel in the French Pro-A last season.


Thanks for the updates. We count on you for these! Keeping track of everyone overseas is not easy and only gets harder with the years, as their number grows.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#745 » by mojo13 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:31 pm

I even posted a little too soon today as Jahvon Blair heads to Greece with his first pro contact. He signs with Lavrio B.C. in the Greek League and FIBA Basketball Champions League (BCL). Lavrio was a surprise finalist in last season's Greek League playoffs and a solid club to start with.

And moments ago Caleb Agada signed with Melbourne United of the Australian NBL.



I have a tracker going of where everyone is at outside the NBA with an eye to the Word Cup Qualification player pool. Once I think it is 95% there I'll post it. Still a few guys that are unsigned (I think).
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#746 » by mojo13 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:01 pm

Ah....trainign camps are already starting and it is likely in a good enough spot to share and ask for input from y'all.

Here is what I think is the likely player pool for the World Cup Qualification.
The caveats here are that no one with a NBA contract is part of this (regulars or two-way) and that we had poor in-season attendance from anyone in the G-League or anyone playing on EuroLeague squads (I included them though).

I've included their general position, club, domestic league and internatioal leguae and if they have ever played SMNT before (Yes/No)

PG Kevin Pangos ??? ??? ??? Yes
PG Kaza Kajami Keane Le Mans Pro-A BCL Yes
PG Trae Bell Haynes CB Breogán ACB NA Yes
PG Kadre Gray Leyma Basket Coruna LEB Gold (Spain 2nd) NA Yes
PG/SG Philip Scrubb Avtodor Saratov VTB NA Yes
PG/SG Dylan Ennis Gran Canaria ACB EuroCup No
PG/SG Olivier Hanlan Aris Greece NA Yes
PG/SG Naz Mitrou-Long Brescia Series-A EuroCup No
SG Jahvon Blair Lavrio B.C. Greek BCL No
SG Kassius Robertson Monbus Obradoiro ACB NA Yes
SG Johnny Berhanemeskel Chorale Roanne Basket Pro-A NA Yes
SG Aaron Best ??? ??? Yes
SG/SF Marial Shayok Fenerbahce BSL EuroLeague No
SF/PF Isiaha Mike Niners Chemnitz BBL NA No
SF/PF MiKyle McIntosh Tasmania JackJumpers NBL NA Yes
SF/PF Thomas Scrubb Monbus Obradoiro ACB NA Yes
SF/PF Dyshawn Pierre Fenerbahce BSL EuroLeague Yes
SF/PF Melvin Ejim Cedevita Olimpija Ljubjana ABA EuroCup Yes
SF/PF Aaron Doornekamp Lenovo Tenerife ACB BCL Yes
PF Kyle Wiltjer Tenerife ACB EuroCup Yes
PF Anthony Bennett NA NA NA Yes
PF Conor Morgan Andorra ACB EuroCup Yes
PF Andrew Nicholson Incheon Electroland Elephants KBL (South Korea) NA Yes
C Owen Klassen Löwen Braunschweig BBL NA Yes
C Kyle Alexander Fuenlabrada ACB NA No

I think this represents the player pool Team Canada will be working with. Let me know if I have anything wrong here or am missing anyone.

Kevin Pangos, Aaron Best and Anthony Bennett are the three main unsigned guys from what I can tell. I also highlighted the EuroLeague guys who are much less likely to play and those who have yet to play for Canada (also less likely to play IMO).

Some others notes:
G-Leaguers: Simi Shittu, Karim Mane, Nate Darling, AJ Lawson, Justin Jackson
Unknown Status: Tyler Ennis, Nik Stauskas
Not Eligible: Anyone with an NBA contract, Caleb Agada (Nigeria), Dejan Kravic (Serbia)

I think a best case starting 5 nowadays would be :
Pangos
Shayok
Pierre
Nicholson
Alexander
but I feel that 4 of those 5 won't play (Alexander might).

Taking that into consideration I expect they go with a heavy does of vets that have experience playing together and work in some new blood, so maybe something like this is a reasonable expectation of a good turnout:

Keane (Bell-Haynes)
Scrubb (Robertson)
Ejim (T Scrubb)
Wiltjer (Morgan)
Alexander (Klassen)

I'd really like Dylan Ennis to get a shot.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#747 » by TheFutureMM » Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:08 pm

mojo13 wrote:Ah....trainign camps are already starting and it is likely in a good enough spot to share and ask for input from y'all.

Here is what I think is the likely player pool for the World Cup Qualification.
The caveats here are that no one with a NBA contract is part of this (regulars or two-way) and that we had poor in-season attendance from anyone in the G-League or anyone playing on EuroLeague squads (I included them though).

I've included their general position, club, domestic league and internatioal leguae and if they have ever played SMNT before (Yes/No)

SG Kassius Robertson Monbus Obradoiro ACB NA Yes


Awesome list - did Kassius Robertson ever play for us? I thought he was one of the guys who was under the radar in High-School and never really made the cut at the Senior Level?
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#748 » by mojo13 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:15 am

Yes. He played in the FIBA AmeriCup Qualfiers. I think on one window. He hardly played. I think that was the only time but could be wrong.

He has turned into one of the best shooters in the ACB. Led the league in 3pts made at well over 40%. He seems deserving of a bigger role in these Qualfiers.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#749 » by TheFutureMM » Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:48 am

mojo13 wrote:Yes. He played in the FIBA AmeriCup Qualfiers. I think on one window. He hardly played. I think that was the only time but could be wrong.

He has turned into one of the best shooters in the ACB. Led the league in 3pts made at well over 40%. He seems deserving of a bigger role in these Qualfiers.


Good catch - you're right. Played back in February 2020. Glad to know he's in the mix.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#750 » by frumble » Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:39 am

mojo13 wrote:Ah....trainign camps are already starting and it is likely in a good enough spot to share and ask for input from y'all.

Here is what I think is the likely player pool for the World Cup Qualification.
The caveats here are that no one with a NBA contract is part of this (regulars or two-way) and that we had poor in-season attendance from anyone in the G-League or anyone playing on EuroLeague squads (I included them though).

I've included their general position, club, domestic league and internatioal leguae and if they have ever played SMNT before (Yes/No)
...


Thanks for putting that together.

Any news on Tyler Ennis? Is he recovered from last year's achilles injury?
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#751 » by mojo13 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:29 pm

frumble wrote:
mojo13 wrote:Ah....trainign camps are already starting and it is likely in a good enough spot to share and ask for input from y'all.

Here is what I think is the likely player pool for the World Cup Qualification.
The caveats here are that no one with a NBA contract is part of this (regulars or two-way) and that we had poor in-season attendance from anyone in the G-League or anyone playing on EuroLeague squads (I included them though).

I've included their general position, club, domestic league and internatioal leguae and if they have ever played SMNT before (Yes/No)
...


Thanks for putting that together.

Any news on Tyler Ennis? Is he recovered from last year's achilles injury?


Nothing definitive. There was an interview out there with the Syracuse publication a few months back (April/May?) saying he was on track with his recovery and targeting to be back on the court full time in September. No rumblings of another pro contract in Europe yet. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up on the 905 again as part of his rehab.

Bennett and Stauskas are mysteries as well. Two lottery picks doing next to nothing professionally in their 20s. What a waste...but I guess if you've made over $14M in career earning and were smart about it, you can coast.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#752 » by Hair Canada » Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:43 pm

Rumors that Anthony Bennett is about to sign with Hapoel Jerusalem. They just inked Thon Maker and Sean Kilpatrick. Looks like they're looking to build a team of NBA washouts. The two Canadian high schoolers, Maker and Bennett could be an interesting duo. Though Bennett looked really bad with Team Canada in Vancouver.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#753 » by mtr15 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:30 pm

Rivals is going to release the updated rankings for the 2023 class this Friday and it'll be interesting to see if Elijah Fisher remains in the top 10. He's been dropping bit by bit since the start of the year.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#754 » by mojo13 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:36 pm

Hair Canada wrote:Rumors that Anthony Bennett is about to sign with Hapoel Jerusalem. They just inked Thon Maker and Sean Kilpatrick. Looks like they're looking to build a team of NBA washouts. The two Canadian high schoolers, Maker and Bennett could be an interesting duo. Though Bennett looked really bad with Team Canada in Vancouver.



And boom....

Read on Twitter
?s=20


Really hope this works out. Happy for the guy.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#755 » by BilboBanginz » Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:24 pm

ESPN released an updated 2022 big board. Several Canadians present.

https://www.espn.com.au/nba/insider/story/_/id/32073102/2022-nba-draft-top-100-updated-prospect-list-key-storylines-return-upperclassman

5. Caleb Houstan
20. Ben Mathurin
46. Zach Edey
51. Andrew Nembhard
81. Marcus Carr
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#756 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:16 pm

mojo13 wrote:Ah....trainign camps are already starting and it is likely in a good enough spot to share and ask for input from y'all.

Here is what I think is the likely player pool for the World Cup Qualification.
The caveats here are that no one with a NBA contract is part of this (regulars or two-way) and that we had poor in-season attendance from anyone in the G-League or anyone playing on EuroLeague squads (I included them though).

I've included their general position, club, domestic league and internatioal leguae and if they have ever played SMNT before (Yes/No)

PG Kevin Pangos ??? ??? ??? Yes
PG Kaza Kajami Keane Le Mans Pro-A BCL Yes
PG Trae Bell Haynes CB Breogán ACB NA Yes
PG Kadre Gray Leyma Basket Coruna LEB Gold (Spain 2nd) NA Yes
PG/SG Philip Scrubb Avtodor Saratov VTB NA Yes
PG/SG Dylan Ennis Gran Canaria ACB EuroCup No
PG/SG Olivier Hanlan Aris Greece NA Yes
PG/SG Naz Mitrou-Long Brescia Series-A EuroCup [b]No[/b]
SG Jahvon Blair Lavrio B.C. Greek BCL No
SG Kassius Robertson Monbus Obradoiro ACB NA Yes
SG Johnny Berhanemeskel Chorale Roanne Basket Pro-A NA Yes
SG Aaron Best ??? ??? Yes
SG/SF Marial Shayok Fenerbahce BSL EuroLeague No
SF/PF Isiaha Mike Niners Chemnitz BBL NA No
SF/PF MiKyle McIntosh Tasmania JackJumpers NBL NA Yes
SF/PF Thomas Scrubb Monbus Obradoiro ACB NA Yes
SF/PF Dyshawn Pierre Fenerbahce BSL EuroLeague Yes
SF/PF Melvin Ejim Cedevita Olimpija Ljubjana ABA EuroCup Yes
SF/PF Aaron Doornekamp Lenovo Tenerife ACB BCL Yes
PF Kyle Wiltjer Tenerife ACB EuroCup Yes
PF Anthony Bennett NA NA NA Yes
PF Conor Morgan Andorra ACB EuroCup Yes
PF Andrew Nicholson Incheon Electroland Elephants KBL (South Korea) NA Yes
C Owen Klassen Löwen Braunschweig BBL NA Yes
C Kyle Alexander Fuenlabrada ACB NA No


I don't think Mitrou-Long's club is in EuroCup. I don't think they play in a pan European league.

Wiltjer is in BCL.

Bennett, after he joined Hapoel Jerusalem, is also in BCL.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#757 » by Hair Canada » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:29 pm

mojo13 wrote:
Hair Canada wrote:Rumors that Anthony Bennett is about to sign with Hapoel Jerusalem. They just inked Thon Maker and Sean Kilpatrick. Looks like they're looking to build a team of NBA washouts. The two Canadian high schoolers, Maker and Bennett could be an interesting duo. Though Bennett looked really bad with Team Canada in Vancouver.



And boom....

Read on Twitter
?s=20


Really hope this works out. Happy for the guy.


Should add that Jerusalem has an exit clause with Bennett. If he doesn't prove himself fairly quickly (within the first two months), he's out. He'll also be getting only about 150K, much less than what he was used to. But at least in principle, the fit next to Maker seems interesting, with Thon providing the defensive presence that Bennett usually lacks.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#758 » by mojo13 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:56 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
I don't think Mitrou-Long's club is in EuroCup. I don't think they play in a pan European league.

Wiltjer is in BCL.

Bennett, after he joined Hapoel Jerusalem, is also in BCL.


Thanks for the sharp eye here Mirotic.
You are right on Mitrou-Long. Brescia has been in the EuroCup for a number of years, so I mistakenly thought they were once again, but it looks like they dropped out and not playing in any international league.

With Kyle Wiltjer and Tenerife, you are right as well. I'm not so familiar with the clubs that when the names change due to sponsorship changes and when multiple names are used, it can still fool me. The CB 1939 Canarias (Lenovo Tenerife) vs CB Gran Canaria got me here.

Thanks.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#759 » by mojo13 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:06 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20





Looks like it will be very similar to the last go round. Could easily be the same pool.

We will have either:
PR or DR
MEX or USVI
BAH or CUB

Not sure how much it matters, but I'd prefer PR, USVI and CUB I suppose.

More important will be to see what South American pool we will combine into - and I am not sure that will matter too much either.

Worst case 2nd round scenario would be something like:
CAN
ARG
DR
VEN
MEX
and a trash team.

Would need to be top three or the better 4th place team to Qualify for the Worlds.
The Schedule matters as well as it would be nice to have tougher games in the Summer when the NBA players are available.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#760 » by mojo13 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:25 pm

Also worth noting that the new Rivals rankings came out.
Shaedon Sharpe the new number 1 for the Class of 2022
Elijah Fisher drops to #14 on the 2023 rankings.


No surprise to many on this board for either.

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