Fred, Norm, OG, Boucher, and Siakam's Ceilings

[OakleyDokely]

The question is why though?!

Are you insinuating OG is on the same trajectory without using context?

I mean keep in mind Kawhi's stats were happening behind the HOF likes of Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobilli and Tony Parker all being well ahead of him in the pecking order (not to mention Danny Green, Patty Mills, Boris Diaw, Bellinelli, CoJo) on 55+W teams off the heals of a championship and Finals MVP for Kawhi not to mention won DPOY that very year at THE SAME AGE and go on to win it the very next year as well! lol

I love OG but there's levels to this and not a fan of people comparing him to a vastly superiorplayer...he's considered a very good defender but Kawhi was next level hence why Anunoby isn't even 1st team nvm a back to back dpoy in the making. Nor is he coming off anything near a Finals MVP lol.

I welcome you to please go watch some footage of Kawhi at the same age and not just post raw numbers when comparing players because context matters and you'll see Kawhi was more advanced offensively (had a pull up jumper, fadeaways, post footwork etc) just Pops hadn't given him a larger role due to his HOF core vs OG who we attempt to feature on a team that's just praying to make a Play In that didn't even exist before and would be a definitive non Playoff team this year it's not the same.

I don't know why people don't just appreciate we have one of the better young 3+D players in the league and want to force the Kawhi comparison unless you're really hinting that OG will one day into a MVP caliber wing who's game will resemble MJ or Kobe and have a historic run that only Kareem, MJ, Hakeem and LeBron had...surely that's not the case?!? If so, let's please not squint our eyes to see these Norm = Wade, DeRozan = Kobe and OG = Kawhi comparisons lol they're nice players but again there's levels to this.

I have no doubt in my mind that OG is/will be as good a defender as Kawhi. OG is already one of the best defenders in the league whether he's recognized for it or not. The stats already show it.

I don't expect him to reach Kawhi levels offensively because the jumps Kawhi made were incredible and rare, but you cant completely rule it out yet because OG has made improvements every year and he's still very young.

Trust me I'm not taking any pleasure in saying this stuff...OG is probably my favorite player on the roster (GT Jr will likely catch up as fav for me) but I'm definitely ruling out such a freakish anomaly of development that Kawhi had particularly when again he was actually a more skilled and polished player by the SAME AGE (ie/ pull up jumpers, fadeaways, post work) but his "comparable" stats came while Kawhi was buried on a team that made back to back Finals with Duncan, Manu & Parker taking the lion share while he was essentially blending in with Danny Green, Bellinelli, Diaw, Mills etc) not attempting to be featured as a part of a supposed core as OG is, nbm the astronomical jumps offensively he'd go on to take in subsequent years...

There is no MVP caliber, top 3-5 player in the making lol I'm sorry

Said it in a lot of previous convos about OG but far more realistically we should be hopeful he becomes the level of a once all-star, dpoy and 20+ppg Ron Artest was...

Obviously it's a longshot, but it's interesting to follow.

If someone had posted that a 22 year old Kawhi would become what Kawhi is now, that person would be laughed at.

Kawhi was a 15th overall pick. He wasnt expected to be anything more than a 3D guy. He posted good offensive numbers, but nothing spectacular in his early 20s. What he had was an ideal NBA physical profile, great defensive instincts and a crazy work ethic which allowed to develop skills that were underdeveloped.

[Badonkadonk]

I think it's unfair to characterize OG as a 3D guy at this point, because the Defense part of that equation is all-NBA level right now, at 23 years old. It's one thing to say that a guy can do both reasonably well, it's another when one of those skills is elite.

We'll see how his offensive game continues to develop, but his contract is already a steal.

[MixxSRC]

Watch on YouTube

Kawhi wasn't some unskilled bum. You look at this and you can how some of this stuff translated. You can see in the video Kawhi shot mechanics that Kawhi used to have. With Spurs they changed it and it allowed him to unlock his potential.

OG has a work ethic just like Kawhi. That's not what separates them. This kind of narrative quickly turns into "OG didn't work as hard"

[johanliebert]

Im just going to leave this here..


Age 22 Season:

Kawhi: 29.1 MIN, 12.8 PPG, 6.2 REB, 2.0 AST, 1.7 STL, 0.8 BLK, 52.2 FG, 37.9 3PT, 80.2 FT, .602 TS

OG: 29.9 MIN, 10.6 PPG, 5.3 REB, 1.6 AST, 1.4 STL, 0.7 BLK, 50.5 FG, 39.0 3PT, 70.6 FT, .600 TS

Age 23 Season:

Kawhi: 31.8 MIN, 16.5 PPG, 7.2 REB, 2.5 AST, 2.5 STL, 0.8 BLK, 47.9 FG, 34.9 3PT, 80.2 FT, .567 TS

OG: 33.2 MIN, 15.5 PPG, 5.6 REB, 2.0 AST, 1.6 STL, 0.7 BLK, 48.3 FG, 39.3 3PT, 78.1 FT, .609 TS

The question is why though?!

Are you insinuating OG is on the same trajectory without using context?

I mean keep in mind Kawhi's stats were happening behind the HOF likes of Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobilli and Tony Parker all being well ahead of him in the pecking order on 55+W teams off the heals of a championship and Finals MVP for Kawhi not to mention won DPOY that very year at THE SAME AGE and go on to win it the very next year as well! lol

I love OG but there's levels to this and not a fan of people comparing him to a vastly superiorplayer...he's considered a very good defender but Kawhi was next level hence why Anunoby isn't even 1st team nvm a back to back dpoy in the making. Nor is he coming off anything near a Finals MVP lol.

I welcome you to please go watch some footage of Kawhi at the same age and not just post raw numbers when comparing players because context matters and you'll see Kawhi was more advanced offensively just Pops hadn't given him a larger role due to his HOF core vs OG who we attempt to feature on a team that's just praying to make a Play In that didn't even exist before and would be a definitive non Playoff team this year it's not the same.

I don't know why people don't just appreciate we have one of the better young 3+D players in the league and want to force the Kawhi comparison unless you're really hinting that OG will one day into a MVP caliber wing who's game will resemble MJ or Kobe and have a historic run that only Kareem, MJ, Hakeem and LeBron had...surely that's not the case?!? If so, let's please not squint our eyes to see these Norm = Wade, DeRozan = Kobe and OG = Kawhi comparisons lol they're nice players but again there's levels to this.

Of all the outlandish comparisons (Norm/Wade, Siakam/CWebb) the OG/Kawhi one is the most plausible.

The only plausible one is s the siakam/Webber comparison.

Comparing og’s #’s to kawhi without context is embarrassing. This isn’t a video game og can’t even create his own shot at an nba level.

[OakleyDokely]

The question is why though?!

Are you insinuating OG is on the same trajectory without using context?

I mean keep in mind Kawhi's stats were happening behind the HOF likes of Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobilli and Tony Parker all being well ahead of him in the pecking order on 55+W teams off the heals of a championship and Finals MVP for Kawhi not to mention won DPOY that very year at THE SAME AGE and go on to win it the very next year as well! lol

I love OG but there's levels to this and not a fan of people comparing him to a vastly superiorplayer...he's considered a very good defender but Kawhi was next level hence why Anunoby isn't even 1st team nvm a back to back dpoy in the making. Nor is he coming off anything near a Finals MVP lol.

I welcome you to please go watch some footage of Kawhi at the same age and not just post raw numbers when comparing players because context matters and you'll see Kawhi was more advanced offensively just Pops hadn't given him a larger role due to his HOF core vs OG who we attempt to feature on a team that's just praying to make a Play In that didn't even exist before and would be a definitive non Playoff team this year it's not the same.

I don't know why people don't just appreciate we have one of the better young 3+D players in the league and want to force the Kawhi comparison unless you're really hinting that OG will one day into a MVP caliber wing who's game will resemble MJ or Kobe and have a historic run that only Kareem, MJ, Hakeem and LeBron had...surely that's not the case?!? If so, let's please not squint our eyes to see these Norm = Wade, DeRozan = Kobe and OG = Kawhi comparisons lol they're nice players but again there's levels to this.

Of all the outlandish comparisons (Norm/Wade, Siakam/CWebb) the OG/Kawhi one is the most plausible.

The only plausible one is s the siakam/Webber comparison.

Comparing og’s #’s to kawhi without context is embarrassing. This isn’t a video game og can’t even create his own shot at an nba level.

Kawhi wasn't creating his own shot when he first came into the league. He had a low FT rate until the 14/15 season, 4 seasons into his career.

[Pooh_Jeter]

It's such a dangerous game to make raw stat comparisons without context.

The league wide average ts% in 2013 was .535%

It's currently at .571%

The game now is different than it was even just in 2013. The scoring and shooting numbers are inflated.

Beyond that just the eye test as a number of other people have mentioned shows a different story. Is it technically possible for OG to be the next Kawhi? Sure, but putting any stock into literally the most implausible scenario is just going to lead to disappointment and it's completely unfair to OG who has shown strides this season and has proven to be the most important player to winning of this current core.

[Los_29]

OG has already exceeded my expectations this year. I didn't think he would be a 15ppg scorer and he's accomplished that this year.

People would be pretty shocked with how Kawhi was scoring his baskets when he won finals MVP with San Antonio. The majority of the points he scored were him shooting wide open J's that were created from the likes of Diaw, Duncan, Parker and Manu. I don't see OG's game reaching the level of Kawhi's but it's also silly to assume that Kawhi was a polished player even when he won finals MVP. He played on a stacked team and barely had to work for those points.

I wouldn't be surprised if OG became a 20ppg scorer in this league.

[howlin mad axer]

Maybe replace Norm with Trent for the thread title.

[manjusaka]

OG dose not have a mid-range ISO game that can handle double team, which kawhi did very well while wearing Raptors uniform.

IMO, OG’s game today is much closer to a prime Shawn Marion.

[tecumseh18]

OG dose not have a mid-range ISO game that can handle double team, which kawhi did very well while wearing Raptors uniform.

IMO, OG’s game today is much closer to a prime Shawn Marion.

Matrix was a rebounding machine. I don't see that in OG. But I do see OG developing his mid-range game, and even make turn-around Js on a regular basis.

Kawhi was both. He's the best rebounder off a missed FT I've ever seen.

[Metallikid]

OG dose not have a mid-range ISO game that can handle double team, which kawhi did very well while wearing Raptors uniform.

IMO, OG’s game today is much closer to a prime Shawn Marion.

Matrix was a rebounding machine. I don't see that in OG. But I do see OG developing his mid-range game, and even make turn-around Js on a regular basis.

Kawhi was both. He's the best rebounder off a missed FT I've ever seen.

Man can palm the ball with two fingers.

[Tha Cynic]

The question is why though?!

Are you insinuating OG is on the same trajectory without using context?

I mean keep in mind Kawhi's stats were happening behind the HOF likes of Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobilli and Tony Parker all being well ahead of him in the pecking order on 55+W teams off the heals of a championship and Finals MVP for Kawhi not to mention won DPOY that very year at THE SAME AGE and go on to win it the very next year as well! lol

I love OG but there's levels to this and not a fan of people comparing him to a vastly superiorplayer...he's considered a very good defender but Kawhi was next level hence why Anunoby isn't even 1st team nvm a back to back dpoy in the making. Nor is he coming off anything near a Finals MVP lol.

I welcome you to please go watch some footage of Kawhi at the same age and not just post raw numbers when comparing players because context matters and you'll see Kawhi was more advanced offensively just Pops hadn't given him a larger role due to his HOF core vs OG who we attempt to feature on a team that's just praying to make a Play In that didn't even exist before and would be a definitive non Playoff team this year it's not the same.

I don't know why people don't just appreciate we have one of the better young 3+D players in the league and want to force the Kawhi comparison unless you're really hinting that OG will one day into a MVP caliber wing who's game will resemble MJ or Kobe and have a historic run that only Kareem, MJ, Hakeem and LeBron had...surely that's not the case?!? If so, let's please not squint our eyes to see these Norm = Wade, DeRozan = Kobe and OG = Kawhi comparisons lol they're nice players but again there's levels to this.

Of all the outlandish comparisons (Norm/Wade, Siakam/CWebb) the OG/Kawhi one is the most plausible.

You believe it's plausible OG becomes one of the top 3-5 players in the league??

That he will likewise be a 2 time Finals MVP and 2x DPOY that can CARRY a team having an entire Playoffs averaging over 31ppg on 50% from the field, 40+% from 3 while teams double and triple teamed him?!?

That's a plausible outcome for OG?! You can't be serious...

People probably mean their games can become similar, not that this player will become one of the top players of all time.

In terms of where they started and their development from robotic defense only players, OG is having a very similar trajectory while playing on a worse team which actually makes it harder rather than easier.

OG is clearly showing signs of becoming more than a 3+D guy. He's not the robotic player he was even last season.

[PhilBlackson]

Of all the outlandish comparisons (Norm/Wade, Siakam/CWebb) the OG/Kawhi one is the most plausible.

The only plausible one is s the siakam/Webber comparison.

Comparing og’s #’s to kawhi without context is embarrassing. This isn’t a video game og can’t even create his own shot at an nba level.

Kawhi wasn't creating his own shot when he first came into the league. He had a low FT rate until the 14/15 season, 4 seasons into his career.

Yes when he FIRST came into the league he couldn't, by the 2014/15 (which IS the one you're comparing) despite misleading raw stats without context no he wasn't/isn't on a similar trajectory, it's simply not true.

Kawhi was further along in his offensive development (again he already had some mid range game, pull up jumpers, fadeaways, cleaner ballhandling, better at driving to the basket and post footwork) and unlike most of people defending this heresay, I will post video below that shows Kawhi actually YOUNGER than OG is now and was already ahead of him in his development which doesn't bode well for this comparison because Kawhi went on to make some truly MASSIVE improvements in subsequent seasons...

KAWHI WHEN HE WAS OG'S AGE NOW...

Watch on YouTube

...and while I believe OG is one of the better defensive wings in the league....he was NOT this 2x DPOY level defender like this

Watch on YouTube

So please stop telling me, they were/are at the same level at the same point because the most certainly were not. People would cry tears of joy if that is what OG looked like right now lol

As I said comparing OG's raw stats is completely misleading as it doesn't give any context to how those numbers were arrived at. OG is a FEATURED player who is APART of the team's young core playing on a currently bad team which generally helps inflate stats not to mention we are in an era of inflated numbers....meanwhile Kawhi was NOT featured as an OUTSIDER of the Spurs HALL OF FAME (that alone sets everything apart) core of Duncan, Manu and Parker who was still trying to separate himself from the other players like established vets of Diaw, Bellinelli and other upcoming prospects at the time in Danny Green, CoJo, Patty Mills etc. It's not easier to put up bigger numbers with less touches and more prominent names ahead of you, ask GT Jr.

But the bottomline is the tape shows you Kawhi was a far more developed, skillful player by the same age and considering he went on to have an astronomical rate of improvement there's no reason to believe that becoming a top 3-5 player in the league is the likely outcome for OG.

So again let's just be happy we have one of the best young 3+D players without placing this unrealistic Kawhi comparison on him

[johanliebert]

The only plausible one is s the siakam/Webber comparison.

Comparing og’s #’s to kawhi without context is embarrassing. This isn’t a video game og can’t even create his own shot at an nba level.

Kawhi wasn't creating his own shot when he first came into the league. He had a low FT rate until the 14/15 season, 4 seasons into his career.

Yes when he FIRST came into the league he couldn't, by the 2014/15 (which IS the one you're comparing) despite misleading raw stats without context no he wasn't/isn't on a similar trajectory, it's simply not true.

Kawhi was further along in his offensive development (again he already had some mid range game, pull up jumpers, fadeaways, cleaner ballhandling, better at driving to the basket and post footwork) and unlike most of people defending this heresay, I will post video below that shows Kawhi actually YOUNGER than OG is now and was already ahead of him in his development which doesn't bode well for this comparison because Kawhi went on to make some truly MASSIVE improvements in subsequent seasons...

KAWHI WHEN HE WAS OG'S AGE NOW...

Watch on YouTube

...and while I believe OG is one of the better defensive wings in the league....he was NOT this 2x DPOY level defender like this

Watch on YouTube

So please stop telling me, they were/are at the same level at the same point because the most certainly were not. People would cry tears of joy if that is what OG looked like right now lol

As I said comparing OG's raw stats is completely misleading as it doesn't give any context to how those numbers were arrived at. OG is a FEATURED player who is APART of the team's young core playing on a currently bad team which generally helps inflate stats not to mention we are in an era of inflated numbers....meanwhile Kawhi was NOT featured as an OUTSIDER of the Spurs HALL OF FAME (that alone sets everything apart) core of Duncan, Manu and Parker who was still trying to separate himself from the other players like established vets of Diaw, Bellinelli and other upcoming prospects at the time in Danny Green, CoJo, Patty Mills etc. It's not easier to put up bigger numbers with less touches and more prominent names ahead of you, ask GT Jr. But the bottomline is the tape shows you Kawhi was a far more developed, skillful player by the same age and considering he went on to have an astronomical rate of improvement there's no reason to believe that becoming a top 3-5 player in the league is the likely outcome for OG.

So again let's just be happy we have one of the best young 3+D players without placing this unrealistic Kawhi comparison on him

Preach.

I remember reading giovanny’s scouting reports on kawhi prior to his draft and he always had an in between game. The only knock was his range but he impressed scouts at work outs with his 3 3pt shooting.

OG just doesn’t have that in between game or the ability to create his own like I previously said. Run an elbow iso for OG today and it will be a nightmare..kawhi in 2015 already had a polished mid range game then.

[OakleyDokely]

The only plausible one is s the siakam/Webber comparison.

Comparing og’s #’s to kawhi without context is embarrassing. This isn’t a video game og can’t even create his own shot at an nba level.

Kawhi wasn't creating his own shot when he first came into the league. He had a low FT rate until the 14/15 season, 4 seasons into his career.

Yes when he FIRST came into the league he couldn't, by the 2014/15 (which IS the one you're comparing) despite misleading raw stats without context no he wasn't/isn't on a similar trajectory, it's simply not true.

Kawhi was further along in his offensive development (again he already had some mid range game, pull up jumpers, fadeaways, cleaner ballhandling, better at driving to the basket and post footwork) and unlike most of people defending this heresay, I will post video below that shows Kawhi actually YOUNGER than OG is now and was already ahead of him in his development which doesn't bode well for this comparison because Kawhi went on to make some truly MASSIVE improvements in subsequent seasons...

KAWHI WHEN HE WAS OG'S AGE NOW...

Watch on YouTube

...and while I believe OG is one of the better defensive wings in the league....he was NOT this 2x DPOY level defender like this

Watch on YouTube

So please stop telling me, they were/are at the same level at the same point because the most certainly were not. People would cry tears of joy if that is what OG looked like right now lol

As I said comparing OG's raw stats is completely misleading as it doesn't give any context to how those numbers were arrived at. OG is a FEATURED player who is APART of the team's young core playing on a currently bad team which generally helps inflate stats not to mention we are in an era of inflated numbers....meanwhile Kawhi was NOT featured as an OUTSIDER of the Spurs HALL OF FAME (that alone sets everything apart) core of Duncan, Manu and Parker who was still trying to separate himself from the other players like established vets of Diaw, Bellinelli and other upcoming prospects at the time in Danny Green, CoJo, Patty Mills etc. It's not easier to put up bigger numbers with less touches and more prominent names ahead of you, ask GT Jr.

But the bottomline is the tape shows you Kawhi was a far more developed, skillful player by the same age and considering he went on to have an astronomical rate of improvement there's no reason to believe that becoming a top 3-5 player in the league is the likely outcome for OG.

So again let's just be happy we have one of the best young 3+D players without placing this unrealistic Kawhi comparison on him

You're vastly overrating what Kawhi was during his first few years in the league. It wasn't until 15/16 when he started to look like an allstar calibre player.

By the way, Kawhi had a higher usage rate than OG at similar points so no, OG most certainly isn't a featured player within the offense when compared to Kawhi.

[pingpongrac]

The only plausible one is s the siakam/Webber comparison.

Comparing og’s #’s to kawhi without context is embarrassing. This isn’t a video game og can’t even create his own shot at an nba level.

Kawhi wasn't creating his own shot when he first came into the league. He had a low FT rate until the 14/15 season, 4 seasons into his career.

Yes when he FIRST came into the league he couldn't, by the 2014/15 (which IS the one you're comparing) despite misleading raw stats without context no he wasn't/isn't on a similar trajectory, it's simply not true.

Kawhi was further along in his offensive development (again he already had some mid range game, pull up jumpers, fadeaways, cleaner ballhandling, better at driving to the basket and post footwork) and unlike most of people defending this heresay, I will post video below that shows Kawhi actually YOUNGER than OG is now and was already ahead of him in his development which doesn't bode well for this comparison because Kawhi went on to make some truly MASSIVE improvements in subsequent seasons...

KAWHI WHEN HE WAS OG'S AGE NOW...

Watch on YouTube

...and while I believe OG is one of the better defensive wings in the league....he was NOT this 2x DPOY level defender like this

Watch on YouTube

So please stop telling me, they were/are at the same level at the same point because the most certainly were not. People would cry tears of joy if that is what OG looked like right now lol

As I said comparing OG's raw stats is completely misleading as it doesn't give any context to how those numbers were arrived at. OG is a FEATURED player who is APART of the team's young core playing on a currently bad team which generally helps inflate stats not to mention we are in an era of inflated numbers....meanwhile Kawhi was NOT featured as an OUTSIDER of the Spurs HALL OF FAME (that alone sets everything apart) core of Duncan, Manu and Parker who was still trying to separate himself from the other players like established vets of Diaw, Bellinelli and other upcoming prospects at the time in Danny Green, CoJo, Patty Mills etc. It's not easier to put up bigger numbers with less touches and more prominent names ahead of you, ask GT Jr. But the bottomline is the tape shows you Kawhi was a far more developed, skillful player by the same age and considering he went on to have an astronomical rate of improvement there's no reason to believe that becoming a top 3-5 player in the league is the likely outcome for OG.

So again let's just be happy we have one of the best young 3+D players without placing this unrealistic Kawhi comparison on him

Ummm what? Kawhi in 2014/15 lead the Spurs in PPG and FGA while being 3rd in USG%. OG this season is 5th in PPG, 5th in FGA and 6th in USG% for the Raptors. Their raw numbers are comparable, but how is OG the featured player while Kawhi was an "outsider" in San Antonio? lol

Also, we've seen OG do about 90% of what was in that Kawhi lockdown defence compilation. OG absolutely should be at least All-Defensive 2nd team this season.

[PhilBlackson]

Kawhi wasn't creating his own shot when he first came into the league. He had a low FT rate until the 14/15 season, 4 seasons into his career.

Yes when he FIRST came into the league he couldn't, by the 2014/15 (which IS the one you're comparing) despite misleading raw stats without context no he wasn't/isn't on a similar trajectory, it's simply not true.

Kawhi was further along in his offensive development (again he already had some mid range game, pull up jumpers, fadeaways, cleaner ballhandling, better at driving to the basket and post footwork) and unlike most of people defending this heresay, I will post video below that shows Kawhi actually YOUNGER than OG is now and was already ahead of him in his development which doesn't bode well for this comparison because Kawhi went on to make some truly MASSIVE improvements in subsequent seasons...

KAWHI WHEN HE WAS OG'S AGE NOW...

Watch on YouTube

...and while I believe OG is one of the better defensive wings in the league....he was NOT this 2x DPOY level defender like this

Watch on YouTube

So please stop telling me, they were/are at the same level at the same point because the most certainly were not. People would cry tears of joy if that is what OG looked like right now lol

As I said comparing OG's raw stats is completely misleading as it doesn't give any context to how those numbers were arrived at. OG is a FEATURED player who is APART of the team's young core playing on a currently bad team which generally helps inflate stats not to mention we are in an era of inflated numbers....meanwhile Kawhi was NOT featured as an OUTSIDER of the Spurs HALL OF FAME (that alone sets everything apart) core of Duncan, Manu and Parker who was still trying to separate himself from the other players like established vets of Diaw, Bellinelli and other upcoming prospects at the time in Danny Green, CoJo, Patty Mills etc. It's not easier to put up bigger numbers with less touches and more prominent names ahead of you, ask GT Jr.

But the bottomline is the tape shows you Kawhi was a far more developed, skillful player by the same age and considering he went on to have an astronomical rate of improvement there's no reason to believe that becoming a top 3-5 player in the league is the likely outcome for OG.

So again let's just be happy we have one of the best young 3+D players without placing this unrealistic Kawhi comparison on him

You're vastly overrating what Kawhi was during his first few years in the league. It wasn't until 15/16 when he started to look like an allstar calibre player.

Again all that footage is of Kawhi in the year YOU compared at the age of 22/23 which OG is now and it's just irrefutable that the player you see is CLEARLY a more skillful and developed player than what OG is and would then go on to still make MASSIVE improvements, so the bottomline was your comparison was inaccurate and misleading (period).

[PhilBlackson]

Kawhi wasn't creating his own shot when he first came into the league. He had a low FT rate until the 14/15 season, 4 seasons into his career.

Yes when he FIRST came into the league he couldn't, by the 2014/15 (which IS the one you're comparing) despite misleading raw stats without context no he wasn't/isn't on a similar trajectory, it's simply not true.

Kawhi was further along in his offensive development (again he already had some mid range game, pull up jumpers, fadeaways, cleaner ballhandling, better at driving to the basket and post footwork) and unlike most of people defending this heresay, I will post video below that shows Kawhi actually YOUNGER than OG is now and was already ahead of him in his development which doesn't bode well for this comparison because Kawhi went on to make some truly MASSIVE improvements in subsequent seasons...

KAWHI WHEN HE WAS OG'S AGE NOW...

Watch on YouTube

...and while I believe OG is one of the better defensive wings in the league....he was NOT this 2x DPOY level defender like this

Watch on YouTube

So please stop telling me, they were/are at the same level at the same point because the most certainly were not. People would cry tears of joy if that is what OG looked like right now lol

As I said comparing OG's raw stats is completely misleading as it doesn't give any context to how those numbers were arrived at. OG is a FEATURED player who is APART of the team's young core playing on a currently bad team which generally helps inflate stats not to mention we are in an era of inflated numbers....meanwhile Kawhi was NOT featured as an OUTSIDER of the Spurs HALL OF FAME (that alone sets everything apart) core of Duncan, Manu and Parker who was still trying to separate himself from the other players like established vets of Diaw, Bellinelli and other upcoming prospects at the time in Danny Green, CoJo, Patty Mills etc. It's not easier to put up bigger numbers with less touches and more prominent names ahead of you, ask GT Jr. But the bottomline is the tape shows you Kawhi was a far more developed, skillful player by the same age and considering he went on to have an astronomical rate of improvement there's no reason to believe that becoming a top 3-5 player in the league is the likely outcome for OG.

So again let's just be happy we have one of the best young 3+D players without placing this unrealistic Kawhi comparison on him

Ummm what? Kawhi in 2014/15 lead the Spurs in PPG and FGA while being 3rd in USG%. OG this season is 5th in PPG, 5th in FGA and 6th in USG% for the Raptors. Their raw numbers are comparable, but how is OG the featured player while Kawhi was an "outsider" in San Antonio? lol

Also, we've seen OG do about 90% of what was in that Kawhi lockdown defence compilation. OG absolutely should be at least All-Defensive 2nd team this season.

Big difference between being 2nd team and the CLEAR 2x dpoy

And again none of that refutes Kawhi clearly being the more skillful, developed player at the same age but let's pretend we didn't see any footage and go with raw stats with no context please lol unless you have some unknown footage of OG's midrange, pull up jumpers, fadeaways etc being at the same level your both saying pretty much a whole bunch of nothing but "should, could, would" but doesn't actually.

[OakleyDokely]

Yes when he FIRST came into the league he couldn't, by the 2014/15 (which IS the one you're comparing) despite misleading raw stats without context no he wasn't/isn't on a similar trajectory, it's simply not true.

Kawhi was further along in his offensive development (again he already had some mid range game, pull up jumpers, fadeaways, cleaner ballhandling, better at driving to the basket and post footwork) and unlike most of people defending this heresay, I will post video below that shows Kawhi actually YOUNGER than OG is now and was already ahead of him in his development which doesn't bode well for this comparison because Kawhi went on to make some truly MASSIVE improvements in subsequent seasons...

KAWHI WHEN HE WAS OG'S AGE NOW...

Watch on YouTube

...and while I believe OG is one of the better defensive wings in the league....he was NOT this 2x DPOY level defender like this

Watch on YouTube

So please stop telling me, they were/are at the same level at the same point because the most certainly were not. People would cry tears of joy if that is what OG looked like right now lol

As I said comparing OG's raw stats is completely misleading as it doesn't give any context to how those numbers were arrived at. OG is a FEATURED player who is APART of the team's young core playing on a currently bad team which generally helps inflate stats not to mention we are in an era of inflated numbers....meanwhile Kawhi was NOT featured as an OUTSIDER of the Spurs HALL OF FAME (that alone sets everything apart) core of Duncan, Manu and Parker who was still trying to separate himself from the other players like established vets of Diaw, Bellinelli and other upcoming prospects at the time in Danny Green, CoJo, Patty Mills etc. It's not easier to put up bigger numbers with less touches and more prominent names ahead of you, ask GT Jr.

But the bottomline is the tape shows you Kawhi was a far more developed, skillful player by the same age and considering he went on to have an astronomical rate of improvement there's no reason to believe that becoming a top 3-5 player in the league is the likely outcome for OG.

So again let's just be happy we have one of the best young 3+D players without placing this unrealistic Kawhi comparison on him

You're vastly overrating what Kawhi was during his first few years in the league. It wasn't until 15/16 when he started to look like an allstar calibre player.

Again all that footage is of Kawhi in the year YOU compared at the age of 22/23 which OG is now and it's just irrefutable that the player you see is CLEARLY a more skillful and developed player than what OG is and would then go on to still make MASSIVE improvements, so the bottomline was your comparison was inaccurate and misleading (period).

I can pull up OGs best highlights to make him look like the greatest player ever. The magic of youtube.

[PhilBlackson]

You're vastly overrating what Kawhi was during his first few years in the league. It wasn't until 15/16 when he started to look like an allstar calibre player.

Again all that footage is of Kawhi in the year YOU compared at the age of 22/23 which OG is now and it's just irrefutable that the player you see is CLEARLY a more skillful and developed player than what OG is and would then go on to still make MASSIVE improvements, so the bottomline was your comparison was inaccurate and misleading (period).

I can pull up OGs best highlights to make him look like the greatest player ever. The magic of youtube.

Please do lol I eagerly await the OG Midrange Mix

You're only kidding yourself if you truly believe OG's midrange, pull up jumpers, ballhandling were anywhere comparable at the same point.