it's 2015 all over again

[djsunyc]

prior to 2016, we were basically a 1 and done team. we lost to the nets in the 1st round and then got swept by the wizards.

2015 kyle is better than anybody on this current roster and jonas was better than any center on this roster by a mile. after that sweep, masai could've easily blown it up but he remained patient. that summer he added cojo, carroll and biz. those 3 additions helped the existing starting 5 and it ended up propelling us into becoming a 2nd/ecf squad for the next few years.

i view the current state of the team a lot like that squad. fred + norm + og + pascal as a unit are as good (if not better) overall than that team's starting 5. we are entering a summer where we can add folks via free agency. we could also move kyle in a day or two to add a few pieces.

my point being is that if you look at the board after that sweep, you would see alot of the same posters saying alot of the same things. masai's patience paid off as over the next 2-3 years, we were a 2nd/ecf team and then got lucky with kawhi. there's something to be said about that. fred + norm + og + pascal are mid 25-28 years old. we don't necessarily have to panace and blow it all up. we have a few years to keep adding pieces and build. we definitely need some more organic internal development and luck always helps but we've been here before and by not going scorched earth, we worked our way back into contender status and presented itself into a title so don't be surprised if masai/bobby take the same approach.

[Ref_from_hell]

I don't think anyone is arguing that we should Blow the entire team up & get rid of everybody. If they are suggesting we do that, then they are probably delusional.

You don't blow up the core of Fred, Pascal, and OG who have won a championship. You add to that.

Need to find a starting center and get some bench depth.

A lot of that could be acquired by trading either Kyle or Norm. Perhaps in the draft as well (Although I still don't think this team will bottom out to the lottery when all is said and done)

[will]

I don't think anyone is arguing that we should Blow the entire team up & get rid of everybody. If they are suggesting we do that, then they are probably delusional.

You don't blow up the core of Fred, Pascal, and OG who have won a championship. You add to that.

Need to find a starting center and get some bench depth.

A lot of that could be acquired by trading either Kyle or Norm. Perhaps in the draft as well (Although I still don't think this team will bottom out to the lottery when all is said and done)

[Ref_from_hell]

I don't think anyone is arguing that we should Blow the entire team up & get rid of everybody. If they are suggesting we do that, then they are probably delusional.

You don't blow up the core of Fred, Pascal, and OG who have won a championship. You add to that.

Need to find a starting center and get some bench depth.

A lot of that could be acquired by trading either Kyle or Norm. Perhaps in the draft as well (Although I still don't think this team will bottom out to the lottery when all is said and done)

Read on Twitter

[Zeno]

I don't think anyone is arguing that we should Blow the entire team up & get rid of everybody. If they are suggesting we do that, then they are probably delusional.

You don't blow up the core of Fred, Pascal, and OG who have won a championship. You add to that.

Need to find a starting center and get some bench depth.

A lot of that could be acquired by trading either Kyle or Norm. Perhaps in the draft as well (Although I still don't think this team will bottom out to the lottery when all is said and done)

There are plenty of people calling everyone trash and suggesting just that. Personally though I agree that it is more likely that Masai and Bobby focus of adding to those three. If the pick ends up a good one then all the better but I think they will be focused on re-establishing a 50+ win team next year not stocking on and holding a bunch of late 1sts and 2nd rounders.

[Steven1562]

Everything comes in cycles. We are headed towards a rebuild. I still think some of the pieces on this team are good enough for a championship roster. We are just missing a superstar. Siakam has proven he can be a 2nd option to a star. FVV is a solid player. OG is the perfect 3+D player. Hopefully Masai can hit on this potential top 5 pick and we continue to improve.

[Eternia]

I don't think anyone is arguing that we should Blow the entire team up & get rid of everybody. If they are suggesting we do that, then they are probably delusional.

You don't blow up the core of Fred, Pascal, and OG who have won a championship. You add to that.

Need to find a starting center and get some bench depth.

A lot of that could be acquired by trading either Kyle or Norm. Perhaps in the draft as well (Although I still don't think this team will bottom out to the lottery when all is said and done)

A starting center doesn't even solve the problem that was clear during last year's playoffs when they had centers. Which is a primary shot creator that isn't a mid-30s Lowry. They desperately need someone to relieve the pressure off of Siakam and VanVleet.

[brownbobcat]

I don't think anyone is arguing that we should Blow the entire team up & get rid of everybody. If they are suggesting we do that, then they are probably delusional.

You don't blow up the core of Fred, Pascal, and OG who have won a championship. You add to that.

Need to find a starting center and get some bench depth.

You need to add a star player that's better than all of those guys, not just pieces. Having said that, I don't think it's necessary to trade them right now - but I wouldn't be surprised if 2/3 were gone within a couple of years.

[Chandan]

I dont think the trio of siakam FVV and OG have much room left to grow. A top 5 talent injected into the franchise would probably help the team much more mid to long term.

[Carter_Kobe]

prior to 2016, we were basically a 1 and done team. we lost to the nets in the 1st round and then got swept by the wizards.

2015 kyle is better than anybody on this current roster and jonas was better than any center on this roster by a mile. after that sweep, masai could've easily blown it up but he remained patient. that summer he added cojo, carroll and biz. those 3 additions helped the existing starting 5 and it ended up propelling us into becoming a 2nd/ecf squad for the next few years.

i view the current state of the team a lot like that squad. fred + norm + og + pascal as a unit are as good (if not better) overall than that team's starting 5. we are entering a summer where we can add folks via free agency. we could also move kyle in a day or two to add a few pieces.

my point being is that if you look at the board after that sweep, you would see alot of the same posters saying alot of the same things. masai's patience paid off as over the next 2-3 years, we were a 2nd/ecf team and then got lucky with kawhi. there's something to be said about that. fred + norm + og + pascal are mid 25-28 years old. we don't necessarily have to panace and blow it all up. we have a few years to keep adding pieces and build. we definitely need some more organic internal development and luck always helps but we've been here before and by not going scorched earth, we worked our way back into contender status and presented itself into a title so don't be surprised if masai/bobby take the same approach.

2015 didnt have Arron Baynes. So we different haha

[sidsid]

I think we're in a different phase than the early Lowry years and I say that mainly because the Lowryesque analogue doesn't exist on our team. Masai was fully ready to tank after the Gay trade and Knicks pulling out of the Lowry deal, but it turns out removing Gay and letting Lowry shine was all that was needed to turn things around.

Our team is pretty analogous to DeRozan, JV, Ross, etc. with the analogues being slightly better across the board, but the only thing that mattered on those teams was Lowry. Indeed all of the rest of that ended up being traded for the championship team (Ibaka, Gasol, Kawhi, Green).

The only player we currently have that can potentially have Lowry's impact ceiling is Siakam (he's currently a fitting DeRozan analogue). We're probably years away from seeing if that comes through.

OG, Norm and Fred are all pieces that can be moved at anytime. Norm makes sense right now. I'd argue so does Fred to make this year's pick even better. OG is likely our prized asset you keep for a star trade if it shows up. If not you're banking on a cap space year around the end of their contracts.

Basically to sum up: we don't have a Lowry. We should be moving our role players to try to obtain those assets and we can't really rationalize following that old blue print until we know we have a Lowry like anchor to the franchise.

[Anticon]

The core of Siakam, FVV and OG is nice, but that's a lot of cash dedicated to what are most likely non all-stars.

If we re-sign Norm, it'll be even more so.

So with our cap space looking potentially gone or quite low, the question is what can you build around that group to be competitive?

We didn't have this type of salary pressure in 2015.

[YogurtProducer]

I think we're in a different phase than the early Lowry years and I say that mainly because the Lowryesque analogue doesn't exist on our team. Masai was fully ready to tank after the Gay trade and Knicks pulling out of the Lowry deal, but it turns out removing Gay and letting Lowry shine was all that was needed to turn things around.

Our team is pretty analogous to DeRozan, JV, Ross, etc. with the analogues being slightly better across the board, but the only thing that mattered on those teams was Lowry. Indeed all of the rest of that ended up being traded for the championship team (Ibaka, Gasol, Kawhi, Green).

The only player we currently have that can potentially have Lowry's impact ceiling is Siakam (he's currently a fitting DeRozan analogue). We're probably years away from seeing if that comes through.

OG, Norm and Fred are all pieces that can be moved at anytime. Norm makes sense right now. I'd argue so does Fred to make this year's pick even better. OG is likely our prized asset you keep for a star trade if it shows up. If not you're banking on a cap space year around the end of their contracts.

Basically to sum up: we don't have a Lowry. We should be moving our role players to try to obtain those assets and we can't really rationalize following that old blue print until we know we have a Lowry like anchor to the franchise.

We don’t have a Lowry, but if you looked at our team in 2014 we had no idea we had a Lowry either. He took massive strides over those next coupes years, strides that were unexpected ans it’s not out the question we could see FV , Siakam, OG, or Norm make some massive leaps, not to mention we potentially could nail a top 5/10 pick here or hit a home run and get back a really nice player for Lowry

I don’t wanna blow this up. I think the combo of Tampa + non existent center rotation is good enough to let us bottom out a bit and stealth tank.

Start playing the bench more for “development” and let’s just ride this season out, finish as the 5th-10th worst team, and **** who knows, maybe the lottery gods love us.

[Zeno]

Everyone wants to skip steps and somehow get a superstar right now. The draft is obviously a possibility especially when you are seemingly going to be drafting semi-high. But even that relies on good luck both with the pingpong balls and the player you pick. To me, even though you won't have a superstar, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to maximize the fit of the main three guys to maximize their growth and perhaps their trade value in the future. Personally if we can go into next season with a lineup of Fred, Lonzo, OG, Pascal, Markkenen with Precious, Boucher, a high pick and Flynn off the bench plus assorted youngish fliers and 2nd draft guys I would like the direction of team.

[YogurtProducer]

The core of Siakam, FVV and OG is nice, but that's a lot of cash dedicated to what are most likely non all-stars.

If we re-sign Norm, it'll be even more so.

So with our cap space looking potentially gone or quite low, the question is what can you build around that group to be competitive?

We didn't have this type of salary pressure in 2015.

At one point we were capped out just from Lowry/Demar/Carroll/Valanciunas which is not any better than FVV/Norm/OG/Siakam.

You guys don’t understand that we aren’t going to sign anyone of value with our cap space and realistically very few teams ever do. If we ever acquire a star it’ll be through trade or a sign and trade. If Giannis requests a trade and targets Toronto, I’m pretty sure Milwaukee would be fairly excited to get back and OG or Norm rather than losing him for nothing

[Pooh_Jeter]

I think we're in a different phase than the early Lowry years and I say that mainly because the Lowryesque analogue doesn't exist on our team. Masai was fully ready to tank after the Gay trade and Knicks pulling out of the Lowry deal, but it turns out removing Gay and letting Lowry shine was all that was needed to turn things around.

Our team is pretty analogous to DeRozan, JV, Ross, etc. with the analogues being slightly better across the board, but the only thing that mattered on those teams was Lowry. Indeed all of the rest of that ended up being traded for the championship team (Ibaka, Gasol, Kawhi, Green).

The only player we currently have that can potentially have Lowry's impact ceiling is Siakam (he's currently a fitting DeRozan analogue). We're probably years away from seeing if that comes through.

OG, Norm and Fred are all pieces that can be moved at anytime. Norm makes sense right now. I'd argue so does Fred to make this year's pick even better. OG is likely our prized asset you keep for a star trade if it shows up. If not you're banking on a cap space year around the end of their contracts.

Basically to sum up: we don't have a Lowry. We should be moving our role players to try to obtain those assets and we can't really rationalize following that old blue print until we know we have a Lowry like anchor to the franchise.

Totally agreed. This is why getting hung up on maintaining the status quo is folly. There is no untouchable piece on this roster and trying to follow an old blueprint makes no sense. You need to adapt to the circumstances and context.

You don't have a post prime Lowry, let alone a prime version. You certainly don't have a Kawhi who was essential from turning a team that was a faux contender into a championship team. Until you find these two pieces nothing is sacred on this team.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I don't think anyone is arguing that we should Blow the entire team up & get rid of everybody.

LOL that is some gas lighting, there is a thread literally titled "time to blow it up", and every picture of a tank on the internet. This board is essentially eating itself

[MixxSRC]

"Starting centre" is just a phrase people are throwing around at this point. We gotta deal with real names and how to get those pieces. Just saying let's get starting level centre means nothing.

[TheYellowMamba]

I don't think anyone is arguing that we should Blow the entire team up & get rid of everybody. If they are suggesting we do that, then they are probably delusional.

You don't blow up the core of Fred, Pascal, and OG who have won a championship. You add to that.

Need to find a starting center and get some bench depth.

A lot of that could be acquired by trading either Kyle or Norm. Perhaps in the draft as well (Although I still don't think this team will bottom out to the lottery when all is said and done)

The core that won the championship is Kyle, Kawhi, FVV, Pascal and Ibaka/Gasol. And that core is already broken.

The core of FVV, Pascal, and OG has won nothing...

[Marty_Budda]

The core of Siakam, FVV and OG is nice, but that's a lot of cash dedicated to what are most likely non all-stars.

If we re-sign Norm, it'll be even more so.

So with our cap space looking potentially gone or quite low, the question is what can you build around that group to be competitive?

We didn't have this type of salary pressure in 2015.

Pascal, OG, and Fred will make a combined 67mil next year. That’s not a lot of cash out of 109mil cap space...

If we get a top 5 pick this year that’s around another 10mil for a total of 77mil for a core of top 5 pick, OG, pascal, fvv.

That would then leave room to add a close to max player if we shuffle some role player contracts around through trades so they’d expire in the same off season.