RealGM

Jadoogar wrote:

T-d0t wrote:Kawhi would rather stay in LA and not win a title than go to a championship contender.

I know we say that the Raptors with Kawhi were a better team than the clippers but this was not the sentiment at the time. Everyon thought the Clippers were loaded with PG.
If Clippers choke again, he might start getting a wandering eye towards a better team. One he has history with.

It wasn't even close as to which the better team was. We won a title when the league was extremely top heavy while the Clippers couldn't even make the conference finals in a super weak year.

- Bucks with Brogdan/Mirotic
- Sixers with Butler/Redick
- Celtics with Kyrie/Rozier/Morris/Horford
- Rockets with Harden/CP
- Gstate with Klay/Durant - Sure we lucked out not facing Durant and some of Klay but they still made the Finals and were actually favored to beat us without Durant

Any one of those teams would be favourites in 2020 where the league parity changed completely. The Heat made the finals for God's sake lol. Oh and we were also without OG and still won.

Tor_Raps wrote:

Jadoogar wrote:

T-d0t wrote:Kawhi would rather stay in LA and not win a title than go to a championship contender.

I know we say that the Raptors with Kawhi were a better team than the clippers but this was not the sentiment at the time. Everyon thought the Clippers were loaded with PG.
If Clippers choke again, he might start getting a wandering eye towards a better team. One he has history with.

It wasn't even close as to which the better team was. We won a title when the league was extremely top heavy while the Clippers couldn't even make the conference finals in a super weak year.

- Bucks with Brogdan/Mirotic
- Sixers with Butler/Redick
- Celtics with Kyrie/Rozier/Morris/Horford
- Rockets with Harden/CP
- Gstate with Klay/Durant - Sure we lucked out not facing Durant and some of Klay but they still made the Finals and were actually favored to beat us without Durant

Any one of those teams would be favourites in 2020 where the league parity changed completely. The Heat made the finals for God's sake lol. Oh and we were also without OG and still won.

But clippers weren't the same team. They literally added another top 15 player. No one on the raptors was as good as PG (at the time). In reality, the clippers ended up under performing. I'm just saying that the Clippers were considered the favourite before the season started. So yes, Kawhi wanted to go home but he also wanted a good team.

Jadoogar wrote:

Tor_Raps wrote:

Jadoogar wrote:
I know we say that the Raptors with Kawhi were a better team than the clippers but this was not the sentiment at the time. Everyon thought the Clippers were loaded with PG.
If Clippers choke again, he might start getting a wandering eye towards a better team. One he has history with.

It wasn't even close as to which the better team was. We won a title when the league was extremely top heavy while the Clippers couldn't even make the conference finals in a super weak year.

- Bucks with Brogdan/Mirotic
- Sixers with Butler/Redick
- Celtics with Kyrie/Rozier/Morris/Horford
- Rockets with Harden/CP
- Gstate with Klay/Durant - Sure we lucked out not facing Durant and some of Klay but they still made the Finals and were actually favored to beat us without Durant

Any one of those teams would be favourites in 2020 where the league parity changed completely. The Heat made the finals for God's sake lol. Oh and we were also without OG and still won.

But clippers weren't the same team. They literally added another top 15 player. No one on the raptors was as good as PG (at the time). In reality, the clippers ended up under performing. I'm just saying that the Clippers were considered the favourite before the season started. So yes, Kawhi wanted to go home but he also wanted a good team.

And I'm saying that a lot of people underrated our supporting cast until last year when we finished with the 2nd best regular season record. Now that we have 2020 to draw upon, there isn't even a debate as to which the better overall team was. Sure they had a slightly better Robin in PG but we were easily better rest of the way, which matters a lot.

Jadoogar wrote:

Tor_Raps wrote:

Jadoogar wrote:
I know we say that the Raptors with Kawhi were a better team than the clippers but this was not the sentiment at the time. Everyon thought the Clippers were loaded with PG.
If Clippers choke again, he might start getting a wandering eye towards a better team. One he has history with.

It wasn't even close as to which the better team was. We won a title when the league was extremely top heavy while the Clippers couldn't even make the conference finals in a super weak year.

- Bucks with Brogdan/Mirotic
- Sixers with Butler/Redick
- Celtics with Kyrie/Rozier/Morris/Horford
- Rockets with Harden/CP
- Gstate with Klay/Durant - Sure we lucked out not facing Durant and some of Klay but they still made the Finals and were actually favored to beat us without Durant

Any one of those teams would be favourites in 2020 where the league parity changed completely. The Heat made the finals for God's sake lol. Oh and we were also without OG and still won.

But clippers weren't the same team. They literally added another top 15 player. No one on the raptors was as good as PG (at the time). In reality, the clippers ended up under performing. I'm just saying that the Clippers were considered the favourite before the season started. So yes, Kawhi wanted to go home but he also wanted a good team.

Kawhi's reasons for going to LA were strictly about family. If he wanted to win, he would have joined LBJ and AD in Lakerland.

The PG deal was just so the Clips would be competitive. What Kawhi really wanted was an organization that would bend to his every demand, and after the PG deal, they are solely reliant on him staying to avoid a complete collapse. So the organization will not say **** to him about anything.

He'll re-sign in LAC, probably with a bunch of opt outs, to keep the pressure on the organization to bend to his will.

Clippers will not likely win anything in his time there.

I feel like Kawhi is an option. Raps can cobble together enough contracts in a sign and trade so the Clippers get something. Kawhi is an UFA and thus the raps are under no obligation to help. Having said that, a sign and trade would be super useful for cap reasons and giving up a future first is a price I would be willing to pay.

It’s already been demonstrated that a core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal can win a chip. With internal growth from the above plus an improved Boucher, Flynn and Trent Jr. plus access to our own picks and to the MLE and buyout market (which we would become a target for, if we had Kawhi) we’d be positioned well.

Dudes need to move on. Kawhi didn’t stay after our title in a weak conference. Our team is now anemic and the conference is much stronger. He wants to be home. He’ll sign a max with the Clippers. If he ever wants to leave he can demand a trade.

Kawhi ain't coming back.

And responding to nonsense from other threads...Norm ain't coming back and neither is DeMar. Move on...

Only way we see Kawhi or Beal in a Raptors jersey is in NBA2k.

Well that rumor just been squashed:

Kawhi Leonard 'Widely Expected' To Re-Sign With Clippers

Merit wrote:I feel like Kawhi is an option. Raps can cobble together enough contracts in a sign and trade so the Clippers get something. Kawhi is an UFA and thus the raps are under no obligation to help. Having said that, a sign and trade would be super useful for cap reasons and giving up a future first is a price I would be willing to pay.

It’s already been demonstrated that a core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal can win a chip. With internal growth from the above plus an improved Boucher, Flynn and Trent Jr. plus access to our own picks and to the MLE and buyout market (which we would become a target for, if we had Kawhi) we’d be positioned well.

There is zero percent chance he would ever come here again as a free agent. None. I would bet every penny I have on it.

The reason he signed a 2 year deal is so he could become a 10 year vet and get the higher max versus a guy with less than 10 years of experience. Its really that simple. This is all there is to it nothing more to it, he just became a 10 year after after this season.

Year 2020/21
6 years or less $27,285,000
7-9 years $32,742,000
10+ years $38,199,000

This report shows how unfounded the earlier report was. If I was a Clippers fan on their board I'd say - he stay.

I am hoping for Kawhi to win the title. I hate the Lakers, don't want an eastern rival to win, and wouldn't mind seeing Kawhi further his legacy with a title and 3rd Finals MVP with 3rd team. And be happy for Serge too

Merit wrote:I feel like Kawhi is an option. Raps can cobble together enough contracts in a sign and trade so the Clippers get something. Kawhi is an UFA and thus the raps are under no obligation to help. Having said that, a sign and trade would be super useful for cap reasons and giving up a future first is a price I would be willing to pay.

It’s already been demonstrated that a core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal can win a chip. With internal growth from the above plus an improved Boucher, Flynn and Trent Jr. plus access to our own picks and to the MLE and buyout market (which we would become a target for, if we had Kawhi) we’d be positioned well.

When has it ever been demonstrated that a core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal can win a chip? A core of Kawhi/Lowry/Siakam/FVV/Gasol won the chip in 2019 while OG was injured the whole playoffs, and a core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal/Gasol which had a ceiling of losing to an unstoppable LeBron/AD duo in the finals (still no chip) lost in the 2nd round to the Celtics last year and has done even worse this year.

This core needs another closer added to it and as of right now the next 2 closers available to add are Cade Cunningham and Jalen Green. A core of Cade or Green plus FVV/OG/Siakam/TrentJr/Flynn/Center who can shut down top centers definitely has the potential to develop into a chip winning core.

KL78192020 wrote:

Merit wrote:I feel like Kawhi is an option. Raps can cobble together enough contracts in a sign and trade so the Clippers get something. Kawhi is an UFA and thus the raps are under no obligation to help. Having said that, a sign and trade would be super useful for cap reasons and giving up a future first is a price I would be willing to pay.

It’s already been demonstrated that a core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal can win a chip. With internal growth from the above plus an improved Boucher, Flynn and Trent Jr. plus access to our own picks and to the MLE and buyout market (which we would become a target for, if we had Kawhi) we’d be positioned well.

There is zero percent chance he would ever come here again as a free agent. None. I would bet every penny I have on it.

The reason he signed a 2 year deal is so he could become a 10 year vet and get the higher max versus a guy with less than 10 years of experience. Its really that simple. This is all there is to it nothing more to it, he just became a 10 year after after this season.

Year 2020/21
6 years or less $27,285,000
7-9 years $32,742,000
10+ years $38,199,000

Fair enough. Still, Kawhi would recoup some assets with the higher salary for the clippers in a sign and trade. Stranger things have happened. We have enough room to make moves this offseason.

Jerry Lucas wrote:

Merit wrote:I feel like Kawhi is an option. Raps can cobble together enough contracts in a sign and trade so the Clippers get something. Kawhi is an UFA and thus the raps are under no obligation to help. Having said that, a sign and trade would be super useful for cap reasons and giving up a future first is a price I would be willing to pay.

It’s already been demonstrated that a core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal can win a chip. With internal growth from the above plus an improved Boucher, Flynn and Trent Jr. plus access to our own picks and to the MLE and buyout market (which we would become a target for, if we had Kawhi) we’d be positioned well.

When has it ever been demonstrated that a core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal can win a chip? A core of Kawhi/Lowry/Siakam/FVV/Gasol won the chip in 2019 while OG was injured the whole playoffs, and a core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal/Gasol which had a ceiling of losing to an unstoppable LeBron/AD duo in the finals (still no chip) lost in the 2nd round to the Celtics last year and has done even worse this year.

This core needs another closer added to it and as of right now the next 2 closers available to add are Cade Cunningham and Jalen Green. A core of Cade or Green plus FVV/OG/Siakam/TrentJr/Flynn/Center who can shut down top centers definitely has the potential to develop into a chip winning core.

I think we are kind of saying the same thing. What I'm saying is that the core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal plus another star can win a chip. I think you're also saying that, but instead of signing a star, you're arguing for them to arrive through the draft. I'm suggesting we can have both a star signing with our cap flexibility, as well as a high draft pick this year if we tank. The first I'd be looking to move would come in a future draft, not the upcoming one.

Merit wrote:

Jerry Lucas wrote:

Merit wrote:I feel like Kawhi is an option. Raps can cobble together enough contracts in a sign and trade so the Clippers get something. Kawhi is an UFA and thus the raps are under no obligation to help. Having said that, a sign and trade would be super useful for cap reasons and giving up a future first is a price I would be willing to pay.

It’s already been demonstrated that a core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal can win a chip. With internal growth from the above plus an improved Boucher, Flynn and Trent Jr. plus access to our own picks and to the MLE and buyout market (which we would become a target for, if we had Kawhi) we’d be positioned well.

When has it ever been demonstrated that a core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal can win a chip? A core of Kawhi/Lowry/Siakam/FVV/Gasol won the chip in 2019 while OG was injured the whole playoffs, and a core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal/Gasol which had a ceiling of losing to an unstoppable LeBron/AD duo in the finals (still no chip) lost in the 2nd round to the Celtics last year and has done even worse this year.

This core needs another closer added to it and as of right now the next 2 closers available to add are Cade Cunningham and Jalen Green. A core of Cade or Green plus FVV/OG/Siakam/TrentJr/Flynn/Center who can shut down top centers definitely has the potential to develop into a chip winning core.

I think we are kind of saying the same thing. What I'm saying is that the core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal plus another star can win a chip. I think you're also saying that, but instead of signing a star, you're arguing for them to arrive through the draft. I'm suggesting we can have both a star signing with our cap flexibility, as well as a high draft pick this year if we tank. The first I'd be looking to move would come in a future draft, not the upcoming one.

It's very unlikely and unrealistic that the kind of superstar we need to add to become contenders again would ever choose to sign in Toronto as a free agent when history has never been on our side in that regard and we're currently sitting out of the play ins, so the team isn't even doing well enough where a superstar closer FA would overlook Canada being an unattractive free agent destination.

Jerry Lucas wrote:

Merit wrote:

Jerry Lucas wrote:When has it ever been demonstrated that a core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal can win a chip? A core of Kawhi/Lowry/Siakam/FVV/Gasol won the chip in 2019 while OG was injured the whole playoffs, and a core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal/Gasol which had a ceiling of losing to an unstoppable LeBron/AD duo in the finals (still no chip) lost in the 2nd round to the Celtics last year and has done even worse this year.

This core needs another closer added to it and as of right now the next 2 closers available to add are Cade Cunningham and Jalen Green. A core of Cade or Green plus FVV/OG/Siakam/TrentJr/Flynn/Center who can shut down top centers definitely has the potential to develop into a chip winning core.

I think we are kind of saying the same thing. What I'm saying is that the core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal plus another star can win a chip. I think you're also saying that, but instead of signing a star, you're arguing for them to arrive through the draft. I'm suggesting we can have both a star signing with our cap flexibility, as well as a high draft pick this year if we tank. The first I'd be looking to move would come in a future draft, not the upcoming one.

It's very unlikely and unrealistic that the kind of superstar we need to add to become contenders again would ever choose to sign in Toronto as a free agent when history has never been on our side in that regard and we're currently sitting out of the play ins, so the team isn't even doing well enough where a superstar closer FA would overlook Canada being an unattractive free agent destination.

I'm tired of this narrative. It's impossible until it isn't. Like everything else. I'd argue a wise player would look to the many things we can offer - including the readymade core (+ MLE + 2021 Draft Picks) after a down season. The raps have flexibility. While I'm obviously angling for someone like Kawhi - given that he's a top 5 player in the league - there are many other options also available to the Raps. We can pivot and sign up and coming players on value contracts, we can sign a star, we can guarantee contracts and trade etc. etc. etc. Lots of options.

Kawhi isnt leaving LA

Merit wrote:

Jerry Lucas wrote:

Merit wrote:
I think we are kind of saying the same thing. What I'm saying is that the core of Lowry/FVV/OG/Pascal plus another star can win a chip. I think you're also saying that, but instead of signing a star, you're arguing for them to arrive through the draft. I'm suggesting we can have both a star signing with our cap flexibility, as well as a high draft pick this year if we tank. The first I'd be looking to move would come in a future draft, not the upcoming one.

It's very unlikely and unrealistic that the kind of superstar we need to add to become contenders again would ever choose to sign in Toronto as a free agent when history has never been on our side in that regard and we're currently sitting out of the play ins, so the team isn't even doing well enough where a superstar closer FA would overlook Canada being an unattractive free agent destination.

I'm tired of this narrative. It's impossible until it isn't. Like everything else. I'd argue a wise player would look to the many things we can offer - including the readymade core (+ MLE + 2021 Draft Picks) after a down season. The raps have flexibility. While I'm obviously angling for someone like Kawhi - given that he's a top 5 player in the league - there are many other options also available to the Raps. We can pivot and sign up and coming players on value contracts, we can sign a star, we can guarantee contracts and trade etc. etc. etc. Lots of options.

Re-signing Trent means we won't even have the flexibility to bring back Lowry at his price never mind adding a superstar FA. And Kawhi, the superstar you're angling to bring back, didn't take a wise look the first time around after we had literally just won the chip.

The secondary stars you claim to be "other options" won't even bring the Raps back to the top of the East never mind winning another chip, and that includes Beal.

I do agree though that the best way for us to acquire a superstar closer if we don't land one of Cade or Jalen Green is to pivot back to looking to trade for the next one who becomes available. This team will not be bad enough next year if fans are back to tank for Chet Holmgren.

JB7 wrote:What Kawhi really wanted was an organization that would bend to his every demand, and after the PG deal, they are solely reliant on him staying to avoid a complete collapse. So the organization will not say **** to him about anything.

Exactly this.
The PG deal was so lopsided in OKC’s favour because LAC didn’t view it as a trade for PG, it was a trade for George AND Kawhi.
Kawhi (and his representatives) know this and will continue to drop hints that he might leave because the Clippers cannot afford to lose him so they will give him whatever he wants.

What kind of rubbish is this? Leonard has a player option this summer. If he wanted to move, he declines the option and you don't trade for him. Or are we supposed to beleive that the Clippers not only trade Leonard, but they accept his option and then backstab him and trade him? This article is about assets, not cap space.

Rubbish.