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Draft Thread Part 2

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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1141 » by Reeko » Tue May 4, 2021 3:27 pm

OAKLEY_2 wrote:
God Squad wrote:
OAKLEY_2 wrote:
Agree with the Dosunmu analysis or observation. Do not think we should trade out. My take is we hope for Davion Mitchell based on BPA and favourable position like 7 or 8. Then we look at Tre Mann"s, Bouknight's, Moody's. If we are say 11th and none of the above are available I consider a Kai Jones, Scottie Barnes if he drops, or a reach for Dosunmo. The only guy I would trade back for is Garuba or we really like Sengun for reasons I don't yet get.

If we leave the draft with Davion Mitchell it'll be a failed year. I'd take pretty much any of the guys you mentioned.


Let's see what Masai does before spilling tears on hypotheticals. Like jumping to conclusions already. Wait til workouts and let's see who kills it. The only knock on Mitchell is height but if we slavishly follow you can't teach height then how do we explainf Raptor GOAT #7?

Height isn't the only knock on him. He's not a good creator out of the PnR and struggles creating for others. In essence, he doesn't have a lot of point guard skills. He can shoot, defend, and he can get to the hoop, but he is not a high level processor of the game.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1142 » by Indeed » Tue May 4, 2021 3:33 pm

OAKLEY_2 wrote:
God Squad wrote:
OAKLEY_2 wrote:
Agree with the Dosunmu analysis or observation. Do not think we should trade out. My take is we hope for Davion Mitchell based on BPA and favourable position like 7 or 8. Then we look at Tre Mann"s, Bouknight's, Moody's. If we are say 11th and none of the above are available I consider a Kai Jones, Scottie Barnes if he drops, or a reach for Dosunmo. The only guy I would trade back for is Garuba or we really like Sengun for reasons I don't yet get.

If we leave the draft with Davion Mitchell it'll be a failed year. I'd take pretty much any of the guys you mentioned.


Let's see what Masai does before spilling tears on hypotheticals. Like jumping to conclusions already. Wait til workouts and let's see who kills it. The only knock on Mitchell is height but if we slavishly follow you can't teach height then how do we explainf Raptor GOAT #7?


I am hoping his size allows him to play bigger than his height, and capable of defending SG or sustain long enough against postup big for double team. The biggest questions for me on Mitchell are his shooting (transferable?) and consistency in creating for others (dishing to the ball or kickout for corner 3?).

His elite quickness is great, but I have not seen enough of him making a pass during his drive, and he is unlikely to finish in the NBA with his size and length, he will need to improve his passing. Offensive system should help him on that, but not seeing him with a better vision than VanVleet at this point. Still a good fit with VanVleet or play as the point (May also wonder if you need Flynn).
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1143 » by OAKLEY_2 » Tue May 4, 2021 3:39 pm

Reeko wrote:
OAKLEY_2 wrote:
God Squad wrote:If we leave the draft with Davion Mitchell it'll be a failed year. I'd take pretty much any of the guys you mentioned.


Let's see what Masai does before spilling tears on hypotheticals. Like jumping to conclusions already. Wait til workouts and let's see who kills it. The only knock on Mitchell is height but if we slavishly follow you can't teach height then how do we explainf Raptor GOAT #7?

Height isn't the only knock on him. He's not a good creator out of the PnR and struggles creating for others. In essence, he doesn't have a lot of point guard skills. He can shoot, defend, and he can get to the hoop, but he is not a high level processor of the game.


He is the number two ranked combo guard by most mocks. So that makes him the number two shooting guard and at worst the number three... If there at 8 or 9 you are going to swing looking at that?
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1144 » by PhilBlackson » Tue May 4, 2021 3:53 pm

OAKLEY_2 wrote:
Reeko wrote:
OAKLEY_2 wrote:
Let's see what Masai does before spilling tears on hypotheticals. Like jumping to conclusions already. Wait til workouts and let's see who kills it. The only knock on Mitchell is height but if we slavishly follow you can't teach height then how do we explainf Raptor GOAT #7?

Height isn't the only knock on him. He's not a good creator out of the PnR and struggles creating for others. In essence, he doesn't have a lot of point guard skills. He can shoot, defend, and he can get to the hoop, but he is not a high level processor of the game.


He is the number two ranked combo guard by most mocks. So that makes him the number two shooting guard and at worst the number three... If there at 8 or 9 you are going to swing looking at that?


Jalen Green is obviously #1 SG but I've seen Keon Johnson and James Bouknight ranked ahead of him (which I'd agree with) now and vast majority of the year.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1145 » by StringerBell » Tue May 4, 2021 4:29 pm

At this rate, looking like a 9th pick. At that point one of the wings (both Johnson's, Moody, Barnes) will be available. And wouldn't be mad if they took a swing at Zaire or Bouknight. We all have our preference but any one of those players significantly increases the asset pool for future trades and more importantly the talent level in the short and long term.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1146 » by nuggett » Tue May 4, 2021 4:33 pm

You are crazy. We're winning the lottery and taking Cade!

( only takes me 4-5 tries on the draft sim lol! )
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1147 » by OAKLEY_2 » Tue May 4, 2021 4:58 pm

StringerBell wrote:At this rate, looking like a 9th pick. At that point one of the wings (both Johnson's, Moody, Barnes) will be available. And wouldn't be mad if they took a swing at Zaire or Bouknight. We all have our preference but any one of those players significantly increases the asset pool for future trades and more importantly the talent level in the short and long term.


The elite D of Mitchell is really truly the BPA scenario so projecting 5 years out is hard to do. In the here and now Mitchell is a better player than both Bouknight and Johnson. The question is will Raps pick BPA like their last 9th pick or will they project some 905 development and hope they can develop yet another +20 mil player. They have to be feeling very confident about development.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1148 » by billy_hoyle » Tue May 4, 2021 5:01 pm

nuggett wrote:You are crazy. We're winning the lottery and taking Cade!

( only takes me 4-5 tries on the draft sim lol! )


I got three times in 10 pulls!

Cade fits so well in our line-ups

FVV---------FVV--------Cade-------Flynn
Cade ------GTJ---------GTJ---------GTJ
OG----------Cade-------OG----------Cade
Siakam---OG----------Siakam---Boucher
FA big-----Siakam----FA big-----FA big

Be nice to bring back Ibaka into that rotation IMO.

Imagine Lowry + Ibaka....pipe dream with KLOWs contract demands.

Cade is the Kawhi type 6'8" fulcrum player we're missing that converts our secondary players into a championship level support cast.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1149 » by Reeko » Tue May 4, 2021 5:03 pm

nuggett wrote:You are crazy. We're winning the lottery and taking Cade!

( only takes me 4-5 tries on the draft sim lol! )

Even if we win the lottery, I'm not so sure that we take Cade #1. I could easily see the Raps going for Evan Mobley. I would prefer Cade, but it wouldn't surprise me if the front office liked Mobley more.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1150 » by Reeko » Tue May 4, 2021 5:05 pm

Am I crazy for thinking that Scottie Barnes is Giannis-esque in his drives to the basket?
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1151 » by Badonkadonk » Tue May 4, 2021 5:11 pm

I'm a huge Barnes fan, but think he's going to be gone by 6th.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1152 » by OakleyDokely » Tue May 4, 2021 5:17 pm

billy_hoyle wrote:
nuggett wrote:You are crazy. We're winning the lottery and taking Cade!

( only takes me 4-5 tries on the draft sim lol! )


I got three times in 10 pulls!

Cade fits so well in our line-ups

FVV---------FVV--------Cade-------Flynn
Cade ------GTJ---------GTJ---------GTJ
OG----------Cade-------OG----------Cade
Siakam---OG----------Siakam---Boucher
FA big-----Siakam----FA big-----FA big

Be nice to bring back Ibaka into that rotation IMO.

Imagine Lowry + Ibaka....pipe dream with KLOWs contract demands.

Cade is the Kawhi type 6'8" fulcrum player we're missing that converts our secondary players into a championship level support cast.
If we get a top pick, I actually think Green fills the biggest Raptors need - a legit #1 scorer who can create for himself and score it from anywhere on the court. Cade is a solid all-around player but I doubt that he becomes an elite scorer like Kawhi. Green has elite scoring potential.

Green allows you to move Siakam/OG/VV to the 2/3/4 offensive options which suits them better.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1153 » by DreamTeam09 » Tue May 4, 2021 5:21 pm

Badonkadonk wrote:I'm a huge Barnes fan, but think he's going to be gone by 6th.


Who does he take out of the top 5?

Cade
Mobley
Suggs
Green
Kumunga

??
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1154 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue May 4, 2021 5:22 pm

OAKLEY_2 wrote:
StringerBell wrote:At this rate, looking like a 9th pick. At that point one of the wings (both Johnson's, Moody, Barnes) will be available. And wouldn't be mad if they took a swing at Zaire or Bouknight. We all have our preference but any one of those players significantly increases the asset pool for future trades and more importantly the talent level in the short and long term.


The elite D of Mitchell is really truly the BPA scenario so projecting 5 years out is hard to do. In the here and now Mitchell is a better player than both Bouknight and Johnson. The question is will Raps pick BPA like their last 9th pick or will they project some 905 development and hope they can develop yet another +20 mil player. They have to be feeling very confident about development.


Defense isn't as important at the PG spot. He's still not someone you can switch onto primary wing options. See how Kawhi absolutely demolished Marcus Smart. Defense is more valuable at the wing, if that's what you're going for. Mitchell is a nice player, but he's not even the best prospect from Baylor. Any team that drafts him in the top 10 will likely be passing on a much much better NBA player and have to answer for that. And I say this as someone who thought Mitchell was really a steal candidate when he was mocked in the late 20s a few months ago. The guy is starting to catch Jonny Flynn hype from tearing up the NCAA and providing lots of energy. He needs to go later and just be seen as a 3rd guard where he can do his thing and be all-around solid.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1155 » by mtcan » Tue May 4, 2021 5:24 pm

Reeko wrote:
nuggett wrote:You are crazy. We're winning the lottery and taking Cade!

( only takes me 4-5 tries on the draft sim lol! )

Even if we win the lottery, I'm not so sure that we take Cade #1. I could easily see the Raps going for Evan Mobley. I would prefer Cade, but it wouldn't surprise me if the front office liked Mobley more.

This is the Ayton vs Doncic argument all over again.

Mobley is a a great physical specimen...a long lanky body who could take up space and cover lots of ground.

Cade can affect the game on the offensive end in so many more ways than Mobley ever could.

If the game is on the line...who's hands would you want the ball in? A 7 footer or a wing who can create his own shot and pass?
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1156 » by OakleyDokely » Tue May 4, 2021 5:27 pm

mtcan wrote:
Reeko wrote:
nuggett wrote:You are crazy. We're winning the lottery and taking Cade!

( only takes me 4-5 tries on the draft sim lol! )

Even if we win the lottery, I'm not so sure that we take Cade #1. I could easily see the Raps going for Evan Mobley. I would prefer Cade, but it wouldn't surprise me if the front office liked Mobley more.

This is the Ayton vs Doncic argument all over again.

Mobley is a a great physical specimen...a long lanky body who could take up space and cover lots of ground.

Cade can affect the game on the offensive end in so many more ways than Mobley ever could.

If the game is on the line...who's hands would you want the ball in? A 7 footer or a wing who can create his own shot and pass?
If I need a bucket, I'm taking Green.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1157 » by Badonkadonk » Tue May 4, 2021 5:32 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:
Badonkadonk wrote:I'm a huge Barnes fan, but think he's going to be gone by 6th.


Who does he take out of the top 5?

Cade
Mobley
Suggs
Green
Kumunga

??

Sorry, I worded that poorly - I think he's top 6. He's interchangeable with Kuminga to me.

I think the Raps are picking 8-10th, what I really want to say is he'll be gone. I'm hoping Moody slips after that.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1158 » by Reeko » Tue May 4, 2021 5:33 pm

mtcan wrote:
Reeko wrote:
nuggett wrote:You are crazy. We're winning the lottery and taking Cade!

( only takes me 4-5 tries on the draft sim lol! )

Even if we win the lottery, I'm not so sure that we take Cade #1. I could easily see the Raps going for Evan Mobley. I would prefer Cade, but it wouldn't surprise me if the front office liked Mobley more.

This is the Ayton vs Doncic argument all over again.

Mobley is a a great physical specimen...a long lanky body who could take up space and cover lots of ground.

Cade can affect the game on the offensive end in so many more ways than Mobley ever could.

If the game is on the line...who's hands would you want the ball in? A 7 footer or a wing who can create his own shot and pass?

Cade of course, but the Raptors might value Mobley's defensive potential more. Point is that I can see a team like the Raptors talking themselves into drafting Mobley over Cade.

I'm not so sure that it is the Ayton vs Doncic argument. I view Mobley as a better prospect than Ayton, and I view Luka as a better prospect than Cade. Meaning I think the gap between this year's top two prospects is smaller than 2018's top two prospects.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1159 » by StringerBell » Tue May 4, 2021 5:33 pm

OAKLEY_2 wrote:
StringerBell wrote:At this rate, looking like a 9th pick. At that point one of the wings (both Johnson's, Moody, Barnes) will be available. And wouldn't be mad if they took a swing at Zaire or Bouknight. We all have our preference but any one of those players significantly increases the asset pool for future trades and more importantly the talent level in the short and long term.


The elite D of Mitchell is really truly the BPA scenario so projecting 5 years out is hard to do. In the here and now Mitchell is a better player than both Bouknight and Johnson. The question is will Raps pick BPA like their last 9th pick or will they project some 905 development and hope they can develop yet another +20 mil player. They have to be feeling very confident about development.


Individual man defense from the PG position is overstated IMO with all the PNR play and switching NBA teams do nowadays. So while he may be a good NBA defender, don't think his defense will be so elite at the next level to override his weaknesses in other areas(offensive limitations, size, athleticism), at least to the point where he the is obvious bpa at 9. He may be, but it ain't by much. And to be honest it won't even take a 905 stint for either Johnson or Bouknight to become nba contributors.

Given the Raps drafted a PG last year and the big contract they gave Freddy, it would really shock me if they drafted another PG, especially one who doesn't really have the tools to be a lead guard.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1160 » by Dalek » Tue May 4, 2021 5:33 pm

Reeko wrote:Am I crazy for thinking that Scottie Barnes is Giannis-esque in his drives to the basket?


I get the shades of Giannis and to me, his high dribble and flashy passing reminds me of Magic Johnson although he is not a floor general. He is a fun player to build around for sure, but I think many teams will pass on him because his shooting is a major flaw.

If you think he is a big PG type like Simmons I think that would be a mistake. I think his real position is as a PF where he can easily guard his position, can out quick the guys he faces and make plays. To me he is the next Lamar Odom. He is a guy that grabs a board and leads a break, or leaks out and gets a quick transition bucket.

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