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Draft Thread Part 2

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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1181 » by Dalek » Tue May 4, 2021 7:41 pm

Does anyone see Davion Mitchell as a Lowry type of prospect?

-Possibly the quickest burst in the draft with his ability to get to the rim without screens; watching film it surprised me how much he would reject a screen and with a slow to fast transition he would get to the rim with ease
-He had the quick pull-up, step-back package of perimeter shots with deep range
-Elite POA defense with a fairly stocky build

Overall, I like him because he is a fast processor like Lowry. He shared a backcourt with another PG in Jared Butler and it worked really well. Toronto is always going to be a guard oriented offense and Mitchell fits extremely well because he defends and can play off ball. He's such a high floor guy that people almost neglect to notice that he was probably the best two-way player in college basketball next to Mobley.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1182 » by HeadtopChunes » Tue May 4, 2021 7:52 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:Cade reminds me more a Grant Hill / Jimmy Butler type who will impact the game in many different ways, but I don't see an elite scorer when I look at his numbers or watch him play.

Green, while not nearly as well rounded as Cade has Bradley Beal type scoring ability in terms of scoring from every spot on the court.


For me this isn't congruent with what actually played on the court, most of Green's scoring comes from transition or shooting from deep. Very little of his offense came in the midrange, (only 9% of his points where he was largely inefficient 35% FG), yes he does show great shot-creating flashes but they are just flashes. This is the same player who currently has huge struggles getting downhill in 1v1 settings and that's with his athletic tools (this has been a problem since HS for him)

Cade meanwhile is bigger, a better handler, and a better shooter, Cade might actually be the best off-the-dribble 3 point shooting prospect in the last decade or so (Tatum wasn't close to his efficiency and Ingram didn't take PU3s)

I don't see how Green can be taken as a better scoring prospect besides the fact that Green needs to be a scorer to succeed and Cade doesn't.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1183 » by JuelzSantana » Tue May 4, 2021 7:53 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:Cade reminds me more a Grant Hill / Jimmy Butler type who will impact the game in many different ways, but I don't see an elite scorer when I look at his numbers or watch him play.

Green, while not nearly as well rounded as Cade has Bradley Beal type scoring ability in terms of scoring from every spot on the court.


Cade is a solid prospect but I think the Grant Hill comp is a bit of a stretch. Grant Hill was an elite scorer and much more offensively sound and could carve up players with his low post game. Grant Hill when he came into the league had a lighting quick first step, and was a nightmare for defences to try to stop when slashing to the basket. He was super athletic for his height and couldn't be stopped in transition cause he could pretty much dunk over anyone, before the injury. If Cade gets to Grant Hill's level of offence and defence, I'd be pleasantly surprised.

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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1184 » by HeadtopChunes » Tue May 4, 2021 7:54 pm

Dalek wrote:Does anyone see Davion Mitchell as a Lowry type of prospect?

-Possibly the quickest burst in the draft with his ability to get to the rim without screens; watching film it surprised me how much he would reject a screen and with a slow to fast transition he would get to the rim with ease
-He had the quick pull-up, step-back package of perimeter shots with deep range
-Elite POA defense with a fairly stocky build

Overall, I like him because he is a fast processor like Lowry. He shared a backcourt with another PG in Jared Butler and it worked really well. Toronto is always going to be a guard oriented offense and Mitchell fits extremely well because he defends and can play off ball. He's such a high floor guy that people almost neglect to notice that he was probably the best two-way player in college basketball next to Mobley.


Mitchell wasn't even the best 2 way player on his team
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1185 » by Psubs » Tue May 4, 2021 7:57 pm

HeadtopChunes wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:Cade reminds me more a Grant Hill / Jimmy Butler type who will impact the game in many different ways, but I don't see an elite scorer when I look at his numbers or watch him play.

Green, while not nearly as well rounded as Cade has Bradley Beal type scoring ability in terms of scoring from every spot on the court.


For me this isn't congruent with what actually played on the court, most of Green's scoring comes from transition or shooting from deep. Very little of his offense came in the midrange, (only 9% of his points where he was largely inefficient 35% FG), yes he does show great shot-creating flashes but they are just flashes. This is the same player who currently has huge struggles getting downhill in 1v1 settings and that's with his athletic tools (this has been a problem since HS for him)

Cade meanwhile is bigger, a better handler, and a better shooter, Cade might actually be the best off-the-dribble 3 point shooting prospect in the last decade or so (Tatum wasn't close to his efficiency and Ingram didn't take PU3s)

I don't see how Green can be taken as a better scoring prospect besides the fact that Green needs to be a scorer to succeed and Cade doesn't.


Ya Cade beasted in a half-court offense when teams were double teaming him because his teammates weren't the greatest. He just was forcing things and his teammates didn't always hit shots they should've or else his A/T would've been at least 1.25-1.5. I guess he's more of a point forward / secondary ball-handler like Paul Pierce.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1186 » by HeadtopChunes » Tue May 4, 2021 8:01 pm

Psubs wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:Cade reminds me more a Grant Hill / Jimmy Butler type who will impact the game in many different ways, but I don't see an elite scorer when I look at his numbers or watch him play.

Green, while not nearly as well rounded as Cade has Bradley Beal type scoring ability in terms of scoring from every spot on the court.


For me this isn't congruent with what actually played on the court, most of Green's scoring comes from transition or shooting from deep. Very little of his offense came in the midrange, (only 9% of his points where he was largely inefficient 35% FG), yes he does show great shot-creating flashes but they are just flashes. This is the same player who currently has huge struggles getting downhill in 1v1 settings and that's with his athletic tools (this has been a problem since HS for him)

Cade meanwhile is bigger, a better handler, and a better shooter, Cade might actually be the best off-the-dribble 3 point shooting prospect in the last decade or so (Tatum wasn't close to his efficiency and Ingram didn't take PU3s)

I don't see how Green can be taken as a better scoring prospect besides the fact that Green needs to be a scorer to succeed and Cade doesn't.


Ya Cade beasted in a half-court offense when teams were double teaming him because his teammates weren't the greatest. He just was forcing things and his teammates didn't always hit shots they should've or else his A/T would've been at least 1.25-1.5. I guess he's more of a point forward / secondary ball-handler like Paul Pierce.


my comp for him is a Tatum/Luka hybrid, he's got the defense and perimeter shot-creating that Tatum does + Luka-Esque PnR ability and passing vision.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1187 » by Indeed » Tue May 4, 2021 8:04 pm

Dalek wrote:Does anyone see Davion Mitchell as a Lowry type of prospect?

-Possibly the quickest burst in the draft with his ability to get to the rim without screens; watching film it surprised me how much he would reject a screen and with a slow to fast transition he would get to the rim with ease
-He had the quick pull-up, step-back package of perimeter shots with deep range
-Elite POA defense with a fairly stocky build

Overall, I like him because he is a fast processor like Lowry. He shared a backcourt with another PG in Jared Butler and it worked really well. Toronto is always going to be a guard oriented offense and Mitchell fits extremely well because he defends and can play off ball. He's such a high floor guy that people almost neglect to notice that he was probably the best two-way player in college basketball next to Mobley.


I always think Mitchell is Lowry lite. But Lowry passing and court vision are amount the elites.
I think the workout may understand more about his concerns regarding his shooting (form) being consistent enough, and also his passing. I think Baylor does not have a PnR big, more with postup big, so there is not many opportunity in understand his ability to dish. Kickout to the corner 3 maybe a system thing, maybe that can be reviewed during workout.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1188 » by OakleyDokely » Tue May 4, 2021 8:11 pm

HeadtopChunes wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:Cade reminds me more a Grant Hill / Jimmy Butler type who will impact the game in many different ways, but I don't see an elite scorer when I look at his numbers or watch him play.

Green, while not nearly as well rounded as Cade has Bradley Beal type scoring ability in terms of scoring from every spot on the court.


For me this isn't congruent with what actually played on the court, most of Green's scoring comes from transition or shooting from deep. Very little of his offense came in the midrange, (only 9% of his points where he was largely inefficient 35% FG), yes he does show great shot-creating flashes but they are just flashes. This is the same player who currently has huge struggles getting downhill in 1v1 settings and that's with his athletic tools (this has been a problem since HS for him)

Cade meanwhile is bigger, a better handler, and a better shooter, Cade might actually be the best off-the-dribble 3 point shooting prospect in the last decade or so (Tatum wasn't close to his efficiency and Ingram didn't take PU3s)

I don't see how Green can be taken as a better scoring prospect besides the fact that Green needs to be a scorer to succeed and Cade doesn't.
The midrange is basically dead so offense from that spot is going to be low, especially in the g league with pro coaches.

Green, as a teenager playing against men in the gleague, was a very efficient scorer and posted a higher TS% than Cade who was playing against college boys.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1189 » by HeadtopChunes » Tue May 4, 2021 8:17 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:Cade reminds me more a Grant Hill / Jimmy Butler type who will impact the game in many different ways, but I don't see an elite scorer when I look at his numbers or watch him play.

Green, while not nearly as well rounded as Cade has Bradley Beal type scoring ability in terms of scoring from every spot on the court.


For me this isn't congruent with what actually played on the court, most of Green's scoring comes from transition or shooting from deep. Very little of his offense came in the midrange, (only 9% of his points where he was largely inefficient 35% FG), yes he does show great shot-creating flashes but they are just flashes. This is the same player who currently has huge struggles getting downhill in 1v1 settings and that's with his athletic tools (this has been a problem since HS for him)

Cade meanwhile is bigger, a better handler, and a better shooter, Cade might actually be the best off-the-dribble 3 point shooting prospect in the last decade or so (Tatum wasn't close to his efficiency and Ingram didn't take PU3s)

I don't see how Green can be taken as a better scoring prospect besides the fact that Green needs to be a scorer to succeed and Cade doesn't.
The midrange is basically dead so offense from that spot is going to be low, especially in the g league with pro coaches.

Green, as a teenager playing against men in the gleague, was a very efficient scorer and posted a higher TS% than Cade who was playing against college boys.


Because Cade was gaurded by 2-3 players at nearly all times, Green wasn't even the first option in the G league
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1190 » by Dalek » Tue May 4, 2021 8:25 pm

HeadtopChunes wrote:
Dalek wrote:Does anyone see Davion Mitchell as a Lowry type of prospect?

-Possibly the quickest burst in the draft with his ability to get to the rim without screens; watching film it surprised me how much he would reject a screen and with a slow to fast transition he would get to the rim with ease
-He had the quick pull-up, step-back package of perimeter shots with deep range
-Elite POA defense with a fairly stocky build

Overall, I like him because he is a fast processor like Lowry. He shared a backcourt with another PG in Jared Butler and it worked really well. Toronto is always going to be a guard oriented offense and Mitchell fits extremely well because he defends and can play off ball. He's such a high floor guy that people almost neglect to notice that he was probably the best two-way player in college basketball next to Mobley.


Mitchell wasn't even the best 2 way player on his team


Pretty hard to make that case when Mitchell won DPOY and shot 45% from three and averaged 5.5 assists per game. I like Jared Butler but Mitchell carried the team throughout the past year and especially in the tournament.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1191 » by OakleyDokely » Tue May 4, 2021 8:27 pm

HeadtopChunes wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
For me this isn't congruent with what actually played on the court, most of Green's scoring comes from transition or shooting from deep. Very little of his offense came in the midrange, (only 9% of his points where he was largely inefficient 35% FG), yes he does show great shot-creating flashes but they are just flashes. This is the same player who currently has huge struggles getting downhill in 1v1 settings and that's with his athletic tools (this has been a problem since HS for him)

Cade meanwhile is bigger, a better handler, and a better shooter, Cade might actually be the best off-the-dribble 3 point shooting prospect in the last decade or so (Tatum wasn't close to his efficiency and Ingram didn't take PU3s)

I don't see how Green can be taken as a better scoring prospect besides the fact that Green needs to be a scorer to succeed and Cade doesn't.
The midrange is basically dead so offense from that spot is going to be low, especially in the g league with pro coaches.

Green, as a teenager playing against men in the gleague, was a very efficient scorer and posted a higher TS% than Cade who was playing against college boys.


Because Cade was gaurded by 2-3 players at nearly all times, Green wasn't even the first option in the G league
Green and Kuminga were used as the top 2 options and had very similar usage rates.

Green posted a 613 TS% while Kuminga posted a .497 TS%.

Green had one of the best teenage seasons in d/g league history.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1192 » by OAKLEY_2 » Tue May 4, 2021 8:30 pm

StringerBell wrote:
OAKLEY_2 wrote:
StringerBell wrote:At this rate, looking like a 9th pick. At that point one of the wings (both Johnson's, Moody, Barnes) will be available. And wouldn't be mad if they took a swing at Zaire or Bouknight. We all have our preference but any one of those players significantly increases the asset pool for future trades and more importantly the talent level in the short and long term.


The elite D of Mitchell is really truly the BPA scenario so projecting 5 years out is hard to do. In the here and now Mitchell is a better player than both Bouknight and Johnson. The question is will Raps pick BPA like their last 9th pick or will they project some 905 development and hope they can develop yet another +20 mil player. They have to be feeling very confident about development.


Individual man defense from the PG position is overstated IMO with all the PNR play and switching NBA teams do nowadays. So while he may be a good NBA defender, don't think his defense will be so elite at the next level to override his weaknesses in other areas(offensive limitations, size, athleticism), at least to the point where he the is obvious bpa at 9. He may be, but it ain't by much. And to be honest it won't even take a 905 stint for either Johnson or Bouknight to become nba contributors.

Given the Raps drafted a PG last year and the big contract they gave Freddy, it would really shock me if they drafted another PG, especially one who doesn't really have the tools to be a lead guard.


He's not a point guard. Natural two guard.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1193 » by OAKLEY_2 » Tue May 4, 2021 8:37 pm

Dalek wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
Dalek wrote:Does anyone see Davion Mitchell as a Lowry type of prospect?

-Possibly the quickest burst in the draft with his ability to get to the rim without screens; watching film it surprised me how much he would reject a screen and with a slow to fast transition he would get to the rim with ease
-He had the quick pull-up, step-back package of perimeter shots with deep range
-Elite POA defense with a fairly stocky build

Overall, I like him because he is a fast processor like Lowry. He shared a backcourt with another PG in Jared Butler and it worked really well. Toronto is always going to be a guard oriented offense and Mitchell fits extremely well because he defends and can play off ball. He's such a high floor guy that people almost neglect to notice that he was probably the best two-way player in college basketball next to Mobley.


Mitchell wasn't even the best 2 way player on his team


Pretty hard to make that case when Mitchell won DPOY and shot 45% from three and averaged 5.5 assists per game. I like Jared Butler but Mitchell carried the team throughout the past year and especially in the tournament.


Let's see how much Masai and Bobby dislike Mitchell if he is on the plstter at our pick. He has great moves to shake defenders before launching threes. We are losing KL. Who better to slide into our guard trio?
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1194 » by mademan » Tue May 4, 2021 8:40 pm

Davion Mitchell reminds me a lot of his namesake, Donovan Mitchell. Both are undersized 2 guards who can play a little bigger than they are, explosive, strong defense with a wet jumpshot. You can do worse than Mitchell, imo. You know this drafts nice when Mitchell might drop to late lotto (but so did the other Mitchell)

Tho i think Davion Mitchell has a higher ceiling than Donovan. Seems like he has better vision/playmaking/PG instincts and can play bigger than Donovan as well
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1195 » by HeadtopChunes » Tue May 4, 2021 8:40 pm

Dalek wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
Dalek wrote:Does anyone see Davion Mitchell as a Lowry type of prospect?

-Possibly the quickest burst in the draft with his ability to get to the rim without screens; watching film it surprised me how much he would reject a screen and with a slow to fast transition he would get to the rim with ease
-He had the quick pull-up, step-back package of perimeter shots with deep range
-Elite POA defense with a fairly stocky build

Overall, I like him because he is a fast processor like Lowry. He shared a backcourt with another PG in Jared Butler and it worked really well. Toronto is always going to be a guard oriented offense and Mitchell fits extremely well because he defends and can play off ball. He's such a high floor guy that people almost neglect to notice that he was probably the best two-way player in college basketball next to Mobley.


Mitchell wasn't even the best 2 way player on his team


Pretty hard to make that case when Mitchell won DPOY and shot 45% from three and averaged 5.5 assists per game. I like Jared Butler but Mitchell carried the team throughout the past year and especially in the tournament.


claiming Mitchell carried the team is so ridiculous its prob not even worth the discussion
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1196 » by DreamTeam09 » Tue May 4, 2021 8:43 pm

OAKLEY_2 wrote:
Dalek wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
Mitchell wasn't even the best 2 way player on his team


Pretty hard to make that case when Mitchell won DPOY and shot 45% from three and averaged 5.5 assists per game. I like Jared Butler but Mitchell carried the team throughout the past year and especially in the tournament.


Let's see how much Masai and Bobby dislike Mitchell if he is on the plstter at our pick. He has great moves to shake defenders before launching threes. We are losing KL. Who better to slide into our guard trio?


Lets hope we land in the top 5 then cuz I want no parts of D.Mitchell unless he's closer to a Donavon Mitchell comp. I'd rather one of Bounkight Z.Willams or Moody
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1197 » by Son Goku 25 » Tue May 4, 2021 8:44 pm

Cade wears #2.

Last Raptor to wear that.. well we all know.

I remember watching an IG feed with Cade trying to act like a Toronto mans.. almost feel like it might be destiny.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1198 » by HeadtopChunes » Tue May 4, 2021 8:46 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:The midrange is basically dead so offense from that spot is going to be low, especially in the g league with pro coaches.

Green, as a teenager playing against men in the gleague, was a very efficient scorer and posted a higher TS% than Cade who was playing against college boys.


Because Cade was gaurded by 2-3 players at nearly all times, Green wasn't even the first option in the G league
Green and Kuminga were used as the top 2 options and had very similar usage rates.

Green posted a 613 TS% while Kuminga posted a .497 TS%.

Green had one of the best teenage seasons in d/g league history.


Green's USG was closer to Isaiah Todd's than Kumingas also very far from Cade (22 USG vs 29), if you go back and watch, Kuminga nearly always touches the ball first, Green was used as a spacer. handoff, secondary handler type,

and I'm not denying Green is a great prospect which is kind of what this turning into but I don't think he's close to Cade, which says more about Cade than Green imo
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1199 » by DreamTeam09 » Tue May 4, 2021 8:46 pm

mademan wrote:Davion Mitchell reminds me a lot of his namesake, Donovan Mitchell. Both are undersized 2 guards who can play a little bigger than they are, explosive, strong defense with a wet jumpshot. You can do worse than Mitchell, imo. You know this drafts nice when Mitchell might drop to late lotto (but so did the other Mitchell)

Tho i think Davion Mitchell has a higher ceiling than Donovan. Seems like he has better vision/playmaking/PG instincts and can play bigger than Donovan as well


Huh how sway?? Really I haven't paid much attn to him because I simply lothe undersize SG prospects now. How big/small is Davion Mitchell?? Play bigger than Donovon? How big is Davion??

Am i underselling Davion or are you guys over selling him, because Donovon Mitchell goes #1 in this draft class for sure
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1200 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue May 4, 2021 8:49 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:Because Cade was gaurded by 2-3 players at nearly all times, Green wasn't even the first option in the G league
Green and Kuminga were used as the top 2 options and had very similar usage rates.

Green posted a 613 TS% while Kuminga posted a .497 TS%.

Green had one of the best teenage seasons in d/g league history.[/quote]

That probably says more about Kuminga. The Gleague is not a defensive league, and those men are few and far between. It's a lot of 24-25 year olds or guys that came out too early. It's more of an open run game, guys are there to put up numbers and get 10 days. Like, Henry Ellenson was a starting C in the Gleague. Even success stories like Freddie Gillespie and Moses Brown are completely out of their depth when they try and guard out of the paint.

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