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Psubs wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:Holmes probably sees this as his only big payday, so yeah - if Sac opens up the wallet for him, he stays. Basically he’s just going to the highest bidder.

Fournier hasn’t fit in Boston because of their ball dominant players (Tatum / Brown), but that’s exactly why he would be looking to move on to a newer team. The talent is there for him to be a super sub.

We’re not giving up our entire cap space to help a division rival for Seth Curry, unless Philly attaches more assets, which they don’t seem to be willing to do.

Seth Curry is the scorer you want and is underpaid like Jordan Clarkson.

Fournier isn't a good defender, even though Curry isn't the greatest but I trust Curry's shot more.

I'm fine with just letting Watson play for the min. He can be like Tony Snell.

I'd rather give the $12 million to Kelly Olynyk than Evan Fournier. Kelly is a good passer and a comparable playmaker to Fournier considering their positions. Give Birch a Baynes like contract.

Does anyone doubt that if the Raptors had Birch and Gillespie instead of Baynes and Len from the start of the season, they wouldn't be at least be around 34-30 fighting with the Knicks, Hawks,Celtics and Heat for the #4 seed.

Still wouldn't be contenders and just lose in the 1st or 2nd round at best. Then they'd be drafting around #18 which is where I was looking pre-season. I was looking at Kai Jones, Josh Christopher and Isaiah Todd.

In what world is Seth Curry a better scorer than Fournier?

Have you seen them play, or is that just your opinion based on his last name?

Seth Curry scores less, assists less, is undersized, and also older than Fournier. Literally the last thing we need on this roster is to add another undersized guard, while helping a division rival.

If Lowry leaves, would anyone be interested in trading Hood for Cojo.
The salaries match up in the trade checker and Cojo has continued to be a good backup since leaving.
Freddy seems to be somewhat injury prone so having an experienced backup seems important if Kyle is no longer here.
Nothing flashy but a solid culture fit.

YelloC wrote:If Lowry leaves, would anyone be interested in trading Hood for Cojo.
The salaries match up in the trade checker and Cojo has continued to be a good backup since leaving.
Freddy seems to be somewhat injury prone so having an experienced backup seems important if Kyle is no longer here.
Nothing flashy but a solid culture fit.

Hood is a team option that I would just decline. Yuta does practically everything better than Hood. I don't know who would give him a roster spot next year? I think he'd have to go to the GLeague or overseas if he wants to keep playing. I'd rather give minutes to Jalen Harris and see if he can make it.

Detrot got CoJo and two 2nd round picks for Delon Wright.

MessiahUjiri wrote:

Psubs wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:Holmes probably sees this as his only big payday, so yeah - if Sac opens up the wallet for him, he stays. Basically he’s just going to the highest bidder.

Fournier hasn’t fit in Boston because of their ball dominant players (Tatum / Brown), but that’s exactly why he would be looking to move on to a newer team. The talent is there for him to be a super sub.

We’re not giving up our entire cap space to help a division rival for Seth Curry, unless Philly attaches more assets, which they don’t seem to be willing to do.

Seth Curry is the scorer you want and is underpaid like Jordan Clarkson.

Fournier isn't a good defender, even though Curry isn't the greatest but I trust Curry's shot more.

I'm fine with just letting Watson play for the min. He can be like Tony Snell.

I'd rather give the $12 million to Kelly Olynyk than Evan Fournier. Kelly is a good passer and a comparable playmaker to Fournier considering their positions. Give Birch a Baynes like contract.

Does anyone doubt that if the Raptors had Birch and Gillespie instead of Baynes and Len from the start of the season, they wouldn't be at least be around 34-30 fighting with the Knicks, Hawks,Celtics and Heat for the #4 seed.

Still wouldn't be contenders and just lose in the 1st or 2nd round at best. Then they'd be drafting around #18 which is where I was looking pre-season. I was looking at Kai Jones, Josh Christopher and Isaiah Todd.

In what world is Seth Curry a better scorer than Fournier?

Have you seen them play, or is that just your opinion based on his last name?

Seth Curry scores less, assists less, is undersized, and also older than Fournier. Literally the last thing we need on this roster is to add another undersized guard, while helping a division rival.

I like that each season he shoots 42+% from 3. Isn't so ball dominant and will cost almost half the price of what Fournier likely wants. Fournier doesn't help a team win; he was in Orlando and since joining Boston they've flopped around. Curry helped Dallas and now Philly is a top 2 team in the East.

IF we go for it next year and trade the draft pick, what's our best case scenario? My guess is something like this:

1) Re-sign Lowry and Birch and eventually Trent
2) Sign Olynyk or another good cente for the MLE
3) Guarantee Hood and Baynes and trade them and PG and the pick, let's say #9, for a wing, m go after someone like Jerami Grant or Christian Wood? Doubt they trade this early, though, even for 2 first rounders, I think it's probably 3 to even have them consider it. Could also be a sign and trade for someone like John Collins or Lonzo Ball with a 1st rounder, maybe not even this year's. VanVleet and those guys for Tobias Harris and Maxey might suit Philly?

But yeah, that seems like the path if the goal is to win 50 next year:

Olynyk/Birch
Siakam/OG
OG/WING
WING/Trent
Lowry/VanVleet or Flynn

Psubs wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:

Psubs wrote:
Seth Curry is the scorer you want and is underpaid like Jordan Clarkson.

Fournier isn't a good defender, even though Curry isn't the greatest but I trust Curry's shot more.

I'm fine with just letting Watson play for the min. He can be like Tony Snell.

I'd rather give the $12 million to Kelly Olynyk than Evan Fournier. Kelly is a good passer and a comparable playmaker to Fournier considering their positions. Give Birch a Baynes like contract.

Does anyone doubt that if the Raptors had Birch and Gillespie instead of Baynes and Len from the start of the season, they wouldn't be at least be around 34-30 fighting with the Knicks, Hawks,Celtics and Heat for the #4 seed.

Still wouldn't be contenders and just lose in the 1st or 2nd round at best. Then they'd be drafting around #18 which is where I was looking pre-season. I was looking at Kai Jones, Josh Christopher and Isaiah Todd.

In what world is Seth Curry a better scorer than Fournier?

Have you seen them play, or is that just your opinion based on his last name?

Seth Curry scores less, assists less, is undersized, and also older than Fournier. Literally the last thing we need on this roster is to add another undersized guard, while helping a division rival.

I like that each season he shoots 42+% from 3. Isn't so ball dominant and will cost almost half the price of what Fournier likely wants. Fournier doesn't help a team win; he was in Orlando and since joining Boston they've flopped around. Curry helped Dallas and now Philly is a top 2 team in the East.

You’ve invoked “defense” and “winning” to support Seth Curry over Evan Fournier?

You don’t really think Philly is seeded high because of Seth Curry do you?

MessiahUjiri wrote:

Psubs wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:

In what world is Seth Curry a better scorer than Fournier?

Have you seen them play, or is that just your opinion based on his last name?

Seth Curry scores less, assists less, is undersized, and also older than Fournier. Literally the last thing we need on this roster is to add another undersized guard, while helping a division rival.

I like that each season he shoots 42+% from 3. Isn't so ball dominant and will cost almost half the price of what Fournier likely wants. Fournier doesn't help a team win; he was in Orlando and since joining Boston they've flopped around. Curry helped Dallas and now Philly is a top 2 team in the East.

You’ve invoked “defense” and “winning” to support Seth Curry over Evan Fournier?

You don’t really think Philly is seeded high because of Seth Curry do you?

Higher, yes.

They were 6th last season. Maybe the coaching change helped a lot?

They have Curry and D12 instead of Josh Richardson and Horford. Most of the roster is the same.

I don't see either as a starter on a contending team. I'd rather have Seth than Fournier especially if you're going to pay Fournier more at the MLE or more.

Psubs wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:

Psubs wrote:
I like that each season he shoots 42+% from 3. Isn't so ball dominant and will cost almost half the price of what Fournier likely wants. Fournier doesn't help a team win; he was in Orlando and since joining Boston they've flopped around. Curry helped Dallas and now Philly is a top 2 team in the East.

You’ve invoked “defense” and “winning” to support Seth Curry over Evan Fournier?

You don’t really think Philly is seeded high because of Seth Curry do you?

Higher, yes.

They were 6th last season. Maybe the coaching change helped a lot?

They have Curry and D12 instead of Josh Richardson and Horford. Most of the roster is the same.

I don't see either as a starter on a contending team. I'd rather have Seth than Fournier especially if you're going to pay Fournier more at the MLE or more.

Sorry dude, but Seth Curry this season is *worse* than Josh Richardson last season.

JRich scored more, assisted more, and rebounded more than Seth Curry’s contribution to Philly. Richardson is also a much better defender than Curry.

The facts just don’t support your opinion, but you keep saying random things to sell this idea of Seth Curry to Toronto. I’m going to stop responding to you.

What do you guys think of something based around Siakam for Ayton in the off season?

PHX is in win now mode and it's puts someone on their roster with a championship under their belt

For us , it gives us a young legit 5, move OG to the 4 and gives us the ability to draft BPA in the draft without any glaring holes on the roster positionally.

Ayton+Saric for Siakam works in the checker

Paul/Booker/Crowder/Siakam/FA or Frank

Lowry(or Flynn) /FVV/GTJR/OG/Ayton

Cheers

I don't want any trade for Seth Curry as we will be stuck watching Fred, Flynn, and Curry playing together. No thanks. At least Fournier has some height. But I'd only be interested in Evan if he came cheap. In which case he likely signs with another team.

Johnston wrote:What do you guys think of something based around Siakam for Ayton in the off season?

PHX is in win now mode and it's puts someone on their roster with a championship under their belt

For us , it gives us a young legit 5, move OG to the 4 and gives us the ability to draft BPA in the draft without any glaring holes on the roster positionally.

Ayton+Saric for Siakam works in the checker

Paul/Booker/Crowder/Siakam/FA or Frank

Lowry(or Flynn) /FVV/GTJR/OG/Ayton

Cheers

I would be open to it. I think Phx needs to keep Saric in the trade though. They lose a lot of size other wise.

bballsparkin wrote:

Johnston wrote:What do you guys think of something based around Siakam for Ayton in the off season?

PHX is in win now mode and it's puts someone on their roster with a championship under their belt

For us , it gives us a young legit 5, move OG to the 4 and gives us the ability to draft BPA in the draft without any glaring holes on the roster positionally.

Ayton+Saric for Siakam works in the checker

Paul/Booker/Crowder/Siakam/FA or Frank

Lowry(or Flynn) /FVV/GTJR/OG/Ayton

Cheers

I would be open to it. I think Phx needs to keep Saric in the trade though. They lose a lot of size other wise.

Yeah I agree.

Siakam and Bembry for Ayton and Crowder works. We could flip Crowder elsewhere.

Tbh I don't watch a ton of PHX and I'm sure how much they value Crowder.

bballsparkin wrote:

Johnston wrote:What do you guys think of something based around Siakam for Ayton in the off season?

PHX is in win now mode and it's puts someone on their roster with a championship under their belt

For us , it gives us a young legit 5, move OG to the 4 and gives us the ability to draft BPA in the draft without any glaring holes on the roster positionally.

Ayton+Saric for Siakam works in the checker

Paul/Booker/Crowder/Siakam/FA or Frank

Lowry(or Flynn) /FVV/GTJR/OG/Ayton

Cheers

I would be open to it. I think Phx needs to keep Saric in the trade though. They lose a lot of size other wise.

I guess Phoenix send Crowder instead? Could flip Crowder to BK for Deandre Jordan!

PG FVV - Flynn - Harris
SG Trent - FVV - Watson
SF OG - 1st pick - Yuta
PF Boucher - Birch
C Ayton - Birch/Jordan - Gillespie

Psubs wrote:

bballsparkin wrote:

Johnston wrote:What do you guys think of something based around Siakam for Ayton in the off season?

PHX is in win now mode and it's puts someone on their roster with a championship under their belt

For us , it gives us a young legit 5, move OG to the 4 and gives us the ability to draft BPA in the draft without any glaring holes on the roster positionally.

Ayton+Saric for Siakam works in the checker

Paul/Booker/Crowder/Siakam/FA or Frank

Lowry(or Flynn) /FVV/GTJR/OG/Ayton

Cheers

I would be open to it. I think Phx needs to keep Saric in the trade though. They lose a lot of size other wise.

I guess Phoenix send Crowder instead? Could flip Crowder to BK for Deandre Jordan!

PG FVV - Flynn - Harris
SG Trent - FVV - Watson
SF OG - 1st pick - Yuta
PF Boucher - Birch
C Ayton - Birch/Jordan - Gillespie

That's a versatile roster and also gives us lots of assets incase a superstar becomes available in the trade market. Might even get some FA interest.

^^Agreed on flipping Crowder to another team. Not so much DJ though lol. But something along the lines of that.

edit: CP3, Booker and Siakam is solid. I wonder if NN would utilize Ayton though. Or would he be played similar as he did JV with reduced minutes.

I think a Siakam to GSW trade makes too much sense.

Roughly thinking, it’s some version of:

Siakam
for
Wiggins, Wiseman, GSW 2021 1st (12-14th)

I think we try to ask for the Minny 1st (assuming it’s 4 or 5), but I’m not sure GSW does that. Maybe tinkering around with Boucher + sending back the GSW 2nd does it? Here’s the base case, with the deal as structured above.


Fred / Malachi
Trent /
Wiggins /
OG / Boucher
Wiseman / Birch

As it stands, with the base framework of this deal, we come out of this draft with 2 lottery picks and 2 second rounders. I have full confidence in Masai and Bobby to hit on an all star.

We’d have our full cap space (~$18M) to go after a FA. To me, that’s the kind of retool that sets us up to start the pursuit of the next championship.

MessiahUjiri wrote:I think a Siakam to GSW trade makes too much sense.

Roughly thinking, it’s some version of:

Siakam
for
Wiggins, Wiseman, GSW 2021 1st (12-14th)

I think we try to ask for the Minny 1st (assuming it’s 4 or 5), but I’m not sure GSW does that. Maybe tinkering around with Boucher + sending back the GSW 2nd does it? Here’s the base case, with the deal as structured above.


Fred / Malachi
Trent /
Wiggins /
OG / Boucher
Wiseman / Birch

As it stands, with the base framework of this deal, we come out of this draft with 2 lottery picks and 2 second rounders. I have full confidence in Masai and Bobby to hit on an all star.

We’d have our full cap space (~$18M) to go after a FA. To me, that’s the kind of retool that sets us up to start the pursuit of the next championship.

I too, often dream about a Siakam for top 4/5 pick trade in the next draft lol.

I wouldn't do the trade without the 4/5 pick though, but I do agree with you that GSW may be hesitant to deal that for Siakam.

I would think GSW will probably trade the pick rather than keep it because Curry is in his 30s. They don't really have the luxury to wait for this prospect to develop. Also, based on what they saw from Wiseman, even top picks generally don't contribute right away, if at all.

GSW will probably dangle the 4th/5th pick if it conveys to see which teams bite and take the best offer. I wonder if KAT wants to remain in MIN for much longer if they keep losing (even though he's part of the reason why they suck).

If GSW can get KAT for the package you mentioned plus the 4th/5th + more picks/swaps, I can see that happening. It would be lulz to see Wiggins back in MIN though, they'd probably not accept him as part of the package lol.

Lonzo got his shot fixed and he's still only 23. Would you throw $20 million per with max raises at Lonzo to try and get New Orleans not to re-sign him? I think they might have to match anything under $25 million. Unless they can add someone with the MLE or Kira Lewis can step in.

MessiahUjiri wrote:I think a Siakam to GSW trade makes too much sense.

Roughly thinking, it’s some version of:

Siakam
for
Wiggins, Wiseman, GSW 2021 1st (12-14th)

I think we try to ask for the Minny 1st (assuming it’s 4 or 5), but I’m not sure GSW does that. Maybe tinkering around with Boucher + sending back the GSW 2nd does it? Here’s the base case, with the deal as structured above.


Fred / Malachi
Trent /
Wiggins /
OG / Boucher
Wiseman / Birch

As it stands, with the base framework of this deal, we come out of this draft with 2 lottery picks and 2 second rounders. I have full confidence in Masai and Bobby to hit on an all star.

We’d have our full cap space (~$18M) to go after a FA. To me, that’s the kind of retool that sets us up to start the pursuit of the next championship.

I think GS says yes and Raps say no. Wiggins is one of the worst contracts in the league, Wiseman has role player potential, and a 12-14th pick isn't much value added. So you've basically traded Siakam for 3 assets that likely won't add more value than he does. Meanwhile Curry + Klay + Pascal would probably end up in the finals.

It would have to be Minny's pick instead of GS IMO.

I was overlooking the Denver Nuggets trade board and they were entertaining a deal centred around of J.Murray + for FVV +? Their reasoning is that they don't believe Murray will be back until 2022 Feb. or so and they don't believe he will be the same player. Would you guys consider a swap of Murray for FVV straight up?