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2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2

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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#461 » by hyper316 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 2:52 am

douggood wrote:
hyper316 wrote:
OAKLEY_2 wrote:
Click. When was the last S+T where there was such a bounty? If Lowry were to sign with Cuban + Luka I could see us getting Porz and a pick.


Suns traded Kelly Oubre, Ricky Rubio, Ty Jerome, Jalen Lecque and a 2022 first-round pick to the Oklahoma City Thunder in exchange for Paul and Abdel Nader.

Oubre and Rubio each probably worth 1 FRP

Sixers will be desperate since they are over cap and cannot sign Lowry as FA

Cp3 trade wasn't a s&t.


Does it matter if it is a sign and trade or not? Sixers will not get Lowry unless they lose one of embiiid/Simmons/Harris
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#462 » by h4rrison » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:09 am

Thoughts on KP trade? His value is at an all time low and he can't be any worse than our current centers. Of course, his contract is one of the worst in the leagues but we gotta take a chance on players as we aren't signing any big time players (yes KP has been bad but I think a change of scenery can do him wonders).

S&T Lowry for KP? Maybe a three way with LA and fillers to Dallas?

FVV
GTJ
OJ
PS
KP
7th Pick
Boucher
Flynn

That is a solid team moving forward. We gotta take chances!
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#463 » by hyper316 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:28 am

KP sucks, do not want on raps
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#464 » by Dr Positivity » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:12 am

I think it would be more like Siakam for Porzingis, Brunson, Josh Green. Would be bold and require Masai to like Porzingis or be bearish on Siakam value going forward.
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#465 » by Kingsway_fan » Mon Jun 7, 2021 9:03 am

Dr Positivity wrote:I think it would be more like Siakam for Porzingis, Brunson, Josh Green. Would be bold and require Masai to like Porzingis or be bearish on Siakam value going forward.

Wouldn't offer a bag if chips for Porzingis
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#466 » by Morris_Shatford » Mon Jun 7, 2021 2:05 pm

Porzingis is talented but big guys with leg issues when they are in their early 20s don't tend to age well.
He may be in a buy low situation but if his body gives out that is a lot of money and years to be committed.
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#467 » by Morris_Shatford » Mon Jun 7, 2021 2:08 pm

OAKLEY_2 wrote:
Morris_Shatford wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:if Klaw resigns, Lowry is effectively one of the most attractive free agents for 2 years. Heat and Knicks might want to spend taht much on a veteran guard to lead their young guys, i.e. Knicks/Heat

Lowry might choose money and play for the Heat. they have everything Klow can ask for, a big man, a elite wing player and full compliment of shooters.


I am not 100% sure that the Heat are the primary threat to chase Lowry.

Assuming they walk away from Dragic, Iggy, and Yurtseven they have 78m in committed salary for 5 players (Butler, Bam, Herro, Achiuwa, and Okpala) and the 5m left from the Andersen buy out

Then assuming you waive every cap hold you have except for Nunn and Robinson you are now at 87m for 7 players as you can deal with Nunn and Robinson after you spend your cap space, but assuming a 112m cap for next season the Heat have around 25m-ish in space.

Even if Lowry settles for 20m they have 5m plus any exemptions they may have to address 7 roster spots;
Its workable but a little complicated.


If Nunn and Robinson sign quick RFA offer sheets, which is possible, then there is no after you spend your cap space. Miami likely loses at least one of those two.


Losing either further compounds the Heats problem IMO;
If one falls off the books fast you open up around 4 and change million but then you have around 29m-ish to address 8 roster spots.

The Heat almost need to keep these guys because they won't replace their production based on their cap holds being added to their cap space (IE you won't replace what Nunn does via free agency for the 4.4m in space he will open if he leaves). I would think that Riley gets the deals done early but announced them after he has dealt with his FA plans.
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#468 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 2:31 pm

Morris_Shatford wrote:Porzingis is talented but big guys with leg issues when they are in their early 20s don't tend to age well.
He may be in a buy low situation but if his body gives out that is a lot of money and years to be committed.


ya that is 3 years 100M remaining after this year.

but i think its hard to gauge his effectiveness on the Mavs because you want the ball in Doncic's hands, not his.
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#469 » by douggood » Mon Jun 7, 2021 2:38 pm

question about rfa timeline.

Free agency this year starts aug 3rd, moratorium ends aug 6th.
RFA can sign offer sheets starting aug 3rd, but the matching period doesnt start till aug 6th.
UFA can agree to contracts starting aug 3rd, but they cannot be sign contract until aug 6th.

IF gary trent/nunn/robinson etc signs an offer sheet aug 3rd for 15 mil, does that jump his cap hold to 15 mil, or is it stil 4.7 mil for the matching period?
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#470 » by Purple Forever » Mon Jun 7, 2021 2:49 pm

Anyone seeing similarities between the Porzingis discussion and the issues with Bargnani back in the day ? We've seen this movie and we know how it ends.
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#471 » by ItsDanger » Mon Jun 7, 2021 3:56 pm

I could see our lineup working with KP especially if we landed a top 4 pick. The injury concern is a major risk and why I don't think it would happen. Maybe when he has only 1.5 - 2 yrs left on his deal.
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#472 » by Ell Curry » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:17 pm

ItsDanger wrote:I could see our lineup working with KP especially if we landed a top 4 pick. The injury concern is a major risk and why I don't think it would happen. Maybe when he has only 1.5 - 2 yrs left on his deal.


Yeah, a deal makes zero sense now, but if Trent is on 15M a year or Lowry 20M a year, it becomes plausible.
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#473 » by gerrit4 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:32 pm

h4rrison wrote:Thoughts on KP trade? His value is at an all time low and he can't be any worse than our current centers. Of course, his contract is one of the worst in the leagues but we gotta take a chance on players as we aren't signing any big time players (yes KP has been bad but I think a change of scenery can do him wonders).

S&T Lowry for KP? Maybe a three way with LA and fillers to Dallas?

FVV
GTJ
OJ
PS
KP
7th Pick
Boucher
Flynn

That is a solid team moving forward. We gotta take chances!


If we genuinely think that Porzingis can return to form, he would be a great fit on this team. A shot blocking seven footer who can hit threes and score in multiple ways would be fantastic here.

That said, I think Porzingis is washed. I really enjoyed watching the Mads this postseason, but I loathed watching Porzingis. He looked like Bargnani out there, and guys his size don't have a great track record with lower body injuries.

Personally, I'd rather try to get Olynyk and Birch in free agency to have them both handle the 5. It's obviously a lower ceiling, but I'm not sure there's really a high ceiling move available to us this offseason (aside from our draft pick).
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#474 » by tecumseh18 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:01 pm

gerrit4 wrote:
h4rrison wrote:Thoughts on KP trade? His value is at an all time low and he can't be any worse than our current centers. Of course, his contract is one of the worst in the leagues but we gotta take a chance on players as we aren't signing any big time players (yes KP has been bad but I think a change of scenery can do him wonders).

S&T Lowry for KP? Maybe a three way with LA and fillers to Dallas?

FVV
GTJ
OJ
PS
KP
7th Pick
Boucher
Flynn

That is a solid team moving forward. We gotta take chances!


If we genuinely think that Porzingis can return to form, he would be a great fit on this team. A shot blocking seven footer who can hit threes and score in multiple ways would be fantastic here.

That said, I think Porzingis is washed. I really enjoyed watching the Mads this postseason, but I loathed watching Porzingis. He looked like Bargnani out there, and guys his size don't have a great track record with lower body injuries.


Not just washed. What the hell was that yesterday, on a 2 on 1 break taking (and bricking) a pull-up 3? You have to worry about his decision-making.

But Raps have had success with injury-wracked players, one even leading us to a championship. If our medical team can verify that Porzingis can regain at least some of his former glory, then yeah, he's the one to go for if it only costs us Lowry (plus that horrible salary).


Personally, I'd rather try to get Olynyk and Birch in free agency to have them both handle the 5. It's obviously a lower ceiling, but I'm not sure there's really a high ceiling move available to us this offseason (aside from our draft pick).


Agreed, but I'm not sure how to sign both Birch AND an MLE big. The guys we want (KO, Portis, Theis) would take all or most of the MLE. So if Raps are an over the cap team, they could only sign Birch for the BAE of ~3.8 mill. I think he wants more.
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#475 » by Rapsfan07 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:10 pm

douggood wrote:question about rfa timeline.

Free agency this year starts aug 3rd, moratorium ends aug 6th.
RFA can sign offer sheets starting aug 3rd, but the matching period doesnt start till aug 6th.
UFA can agree to contracts starting aug 3rd, but they cannot be sign contract until aug 6th.

IF gary trent/nunn/robinson etc signs an offer sheet aug 3rd for 15 mil, does that jump his cap hold to 15 mil, or is it stil 4.7 mil for the matching period?


Hi Doug,

If I understand the CBA correctly, if Trent/Nunn/Robinson sign an offer sheet, their cap hit is their current salary to their bird team and the offer sheet value to the team that signed them.

So for example, if Trent signs a $15M per deal with the Knicks, Toronto only feels that cap hit if they choose to match the Knicks offer. Until Toronto chooses to do that, I believe his cap hit would be the amount that his contract is right now.
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#476 » by h4rrison » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:44 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:
gerrit4 wrote:
h4rrison wrote:Thoughts on KP trade? His value is at an all time low and he can't be any worse than our current centers. Of course, his contract is one of the worst in the leagues but we gotta take a chance on players as we aren't signing any big time players (yes KP has been bad but I think a change of scenery can do him wonders).

S&T Lowry for KP? Maybe a three way with LA and fillers to Dallas?

FVV
GTJ
OJ
PS
KP
7th Pick
Boucher
Flynn

That is a solid team moving forward. We gotta take chances!


If we genuinely think that Porzingis can return to form, he would be a great fit on this team. A shot blocking seven footer who can hit threes and score in multiple ways would be fantastic here.

That said, I think Porzingis is washed. I really enjoyed watching the Mads this postseason, but I loathed watching Porzingis. He looked like Bargnani out there, and guys his size don't have a great track record with lower body injuries.


Not just washed. What the hell was that yesterday, on a 2 on 1 break taking (and bricking) a pull-up 3? You have to worry about his decision-making.

But Raps have had success with injury-wracked players, one even leading us to a championship. If our medical team can verify that Porzingis can regain at least some of his former glory, then yeah, he's the one to go for if it only costs us Lowry (plus that horrible salary).


Like I said, I think the Mavs system isn't doing his game any justice but also he needs a change of scenery to essentially reprogram his game/mindset. They're utilizing him as a 3P shooting big to open up the paint for driving lanes for Luka which he clearly is having trouble with. I'll admit KP is a bit soft and I think the lack of "stats" get to him and when he's not contributing, it impacts his overall urgency. Obviously, those are some red flags but I think we can turn his game around and at least bring back his game during his pre-injury NY years.

Who else are we going to use all this cap on?
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#477 » by mademan » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:49 pm

h4rrison wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:
gerrit4 wrote:
If we genuinely think that Porzingis can return to form, he would be a great fit on this team. A shot blocking seven footer who can hit threes and score in multiple ways would be fantastic here.

That said, I think Porzingis is washed. I really enjoyed watching the Mads this postseason, but I loathed watching Porzingis. He looked like Bargnani out there, and guys his size don't have a great track record with lower body injuries.


Not just washed. What the hell was that yesterday, on a 2 on 1 break taking (and bricking) a pull-up 3? You have to worry about his decision-making.

But Raps have had success with injury-wracked players, one even leading us to a championship. If our medical team can verify that Porzingis can regain at least some of his former glory, then yeah, he's the one to go for if it only costs us Lowry (plus that horrible salary).


Like I said, I think the Mavs system isn't doing his game any justice but also he needs a change of scenery to essentially reprogram his game/mindset. They're utilizing him as a 3P shooting big to open up the paint for driving lanes for Luka which he clearly is having trouble with. I'll admit KP is a bit soft and I think the lack of "stats" get to him and when he's not contributing, it impacts his overall urgency. Obviously, those are some red flags but I think we can turn his game around and at least bring back his game during his pre-injury NY years.

Who else are we going to use all this cap on?


The Mavs gave him the ball in different spots throughout the first 2 games and he couldnt do anything. He's soft, doesnt rebound, doesnt defend besides a block here or there and cant really do much besides shoot and the occasional cut to the basket. Even if it cost the Raps nothing but paying him his max contract, it's an easy pass. He's got a crippling contract

That's not even going into him being a bad fit for the Raps. If he starts at the 5, Raps would be the worst rebounding team in the league while still lacking a first option and being capped out. Makes no sense
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#478 » by h4rrison » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:56 pm

mademan wrote:
h4rrison wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:
Not just washed. What the hell was that yesterday, on a 2 on 1 break taking (and bricking) a pull-up 3? You have to worry about his decision-making.

But Raps have had success with injury-wracked players, one even leading us to a championship. If our medical team can verify that Porzingis can regain at least some of his former glory, then yeah, he's the one to go for if it only costs us Lowry (plus that horrible salary).


Like I said, I think the Mavs system isn't doing his game any justice but also he needs a change of scenery to essentially reprogram his game/mindset. They're utilizing him as a 3P shooting big to open up the paint for driving lanes for Luka which he clearly is having trouble with. I'll admit KP is a bit soft and I think the lack of "stats" get to him and when he's not contributing, it impacts his overall urgency. Obviously, those are some red flags but I think we can turn his game around and at least bring back his game during his pre-injury NY years.

Who else are we going to use all this cap on?


The Mavs gave him the ball in different spots throughout the first 2 games and he couldnt do anything. He's soft, doesnt rebound, doesnt defend besides a block here or there and cant really do much besides shoot and the occasional cut to the basket. Even if it cost the Raps nothing but paying him his max contract, it's an easy pass. He's got a crippling contract

That's not even going into him being a bad fit for the Raps. If he starts at the 5, Raps would be the worst rebounding team in the league while still lacking a first option and being capped out. Makes no sense


Fair enough. I'd still consider it. For context, Clips got out rebounded +12 in game 7 and totally destroyed the Mavs. I think rebounded is a bit overvalued in today's game with the volume of 3P shooting.
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#479 » by mademan » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:59 pm

h4rrison wrote:
mademan wrote:
h4rrison wrote:
Like I said, I think the Mavs system isn't doing his game any justice but also he needs a change of scenery to essentially reprogram his game/mindset. They're utilizing him as a 3P shooting big to open up the paint for driving lanes for Luka which he clearly is having trouble with. I'll admit KP is a bit soft and I think the lack of "stats" get to him and when he's not contributing, it impacts his overall urgency. Obviously, those are some red flags but I think we can turn his game around and at least bring back his game during his pre-injury NY years.

Who else are we going to use all this cap on?


The Mavs gave him the ball in different spots throughout the first 2 games and he couldnt do anything. He's soft, doesnt rebound, doesnt defend besides a block here or there and cant really do much besides shoot and the occasional cut to the basket. Even if it cost the Raps nothing but paying him his max contract, it's an easy pass. He's got a crippling contract

That's not even going into him being a bad fit for the Raps. If he starts at the 5, Raps would be the worst rebounding team in the league while still lacking a first option and being capped out. Makes no sense


Fair enough. I'd still consider it. For context, Clips got out rebounded +12 in game 7 and totally destroyed the Mavs. I think rebounded is a bit overvalued in today's game with the volume of 3P shooting.


Rebounding isnt overvalued. Clips were just able to close the possession gap by forcing 6 more turnovers. Thats big (especially as turnovers lead to higher % shots on the other end).

KP is who he is at this point. He's a shooting big who doesnt do much else and is super unreliable from a health standpoint. I cant imagine team in the league taking him into cap space without significant assets attached (assets the Mavs dont have/wont be willing to give up)
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Re: 2020-21 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2 

Post#480 » by Morris_Shatford » Mon Jun 7, 2021 7:03 pm

DangerZone13 wrote:I'm wondering if we can swap Boucher, #44 and #46 to the Knicks for #21 and #32?


I think Boucher with one year left @ 7m and full bird rights is worth a mid to late FRP and I would swap 44 and 46 for 32 for exactly the reasons you noted, someone always falls out of the first that shouldn't have.
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