ImageImageImageImageImage

Starting center next year? Options are limited...

Moderators: 7 Footer, Duffman100, Alfred, lebron stopper, niQ, gojoorange, DG88, Morris_Shatford

User avatar
XTC
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,149
And1: 2,696
Joined: Nov 09, 2005
 

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#341 » by XTC » Fri May 14, 2021 11:14 am

I wonder how much DeRozan would be asking for TBH... That and if we re-upped lowry + went after Richaun Holmes + Won the draft lottery :lol: I know we dont have the salary for all this :lol: it's more of a what if scenerio

FVV/Lowry
Cade/GTJ
OG/Derozan
Siakam/Boucher
Holmes/Birch
User avatar
Indeed
RealGM
Posts: 16,401
And1: 1,506
Joined: Aug 21, 2009

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#342 » by Indeed » Fri May 14, 2021 12:06 pm

XTC wrote:I wonder how much DeRozan would be asking for TBH... That and if we re-upped lowry + went after Richaun Holmes + Won the draft lottery :lol: I know we dont have the salary for all this :lol: it's more of a what if scenerio

FVV/Lowry
Cade/GTJ
OG/Derozan
Siakam/Boucher
Holmes/Birch


We don't have the salary for all these, and DeRozan isn't coming off the bench.
User avatar
Los Soles
Starter
Posts: 2,401
And1: 789
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Location: الوطن العربي
   

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#343 » by Los Soles » Fri May 14, 2021 12:59 pm

ItsDanger wrote:Can Birch handle larger C's? So far, I would say no.

What type of situations/plays are you picturing with this? Do you mean the other team is posting up their big center against Birch? Or something else?

If you mean post ups, then... :nonono:

According to NBA.com tracking numbers, players have scored 0.75 points per possession on post ups vs Birch. In general against the Raptors, teams have scored 0.94 points per possession on post ups. Either way: that's horrible offense. We would LOVE to have teams post up against Birch. (FYI, 0.86 for Boucher. Love that too.)
User avatar
Los Soles
Starter
Posts: 2,401
And1: 789
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Location: الوطن العربي
   

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#344 » by Los Soles » Fri May 14, 2021 4:01 pm

Ell Curry wrote:I haven't seen enough to have an eye test opinion but Muscala's impact on the Thunder seems to have been really significant this year:
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=thunder+record+this+season+with+and+without+mike+muscala%2C+net+rating

He might make sense as our stretch center to give Siakam space if we can get him for 2-3M on an exception if we keep Lowry and Birch and want 10-15 minutes a night of stretch 5 play.

Muscala has looked really good this year by...

I like the idea of bringing him in to start. I get that that's...outside the box. But he defends, makes threes, boxes out, etc. Then you have a Birch-Boucher frontcourt coming off the bench. I like having a good stretch-big on the court by default.

But I guess I'd be open to the idea of starting Lowry & Birch and then Muscala is backup center. Boucher-Muscala is a lot of shooting from the frontcourt. Which is not a bad thing. But the idea is to pair shooting with guys who are good at attacking the rim -- hence my obsession with pairing Siakam with shooting. But regardless of the "starter" vs "backup", Siakam-Birch-Boucher-Muscala allows for a lot of mixing and matching that could be effective depending on the situation.
GLF
Sophomore
Posts: 142
And1: 163
Joined: Sep 03, 2018
 

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#345 » by GLF » Fri May 14, 2021 5:14 pm

Los Soles wrote:
Ell Curry wrote:I haven't seen enough to have an eye test opinion but Muscala's impact on the Thunder seems to have been really significant this year:
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=thunder+record+this+season+with+and+without+mike+muscala%2C+net+rating

He might make sense as our stretch center to give Siakam space if we can get him for 2-3M on an exception if we keep Lowry and Birch and want 10-15 minutes a night of stretch 5 play.

Muscala has looked really good this year by...

I like the idea of bringing him in to start. I get that that's...outside the box. But he defends, makes threes, boxes out, etc. Then you have a Birch-Boucher frontcourt coming off the bench. I like having a good stretch-big on the court by default.

But I guess I'd be open to the idea of starting Lowry & Birch and then Muscala is backup center. Boucher-Muscala is a lot of shooting from the frontcourt. Which is not a bad thing. But the idea is to pair shooting with guys who are good at attacking the rim -- hence my obsession with pairing Siakam with shooting. But regardless of the "starter" vs "backup", Siakam-Birch-Boucher-Muscala allows for a lot of mixing and matching that could be effective depending on the situation.


Wait Muscala is a good rebounder and defender? Since when?
tecumseh18
RealGM
Posts: 14,457
And1: 6,752
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Location: Big green house
 

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#346 » by tecumseh18 » Fri May 14, 2021 5:45 pm

Los Soles wrote:
Ell Curry wrote:I haven't seen enough to have an eye test opinion but Muscala's impact on the Thunder seems to have been really significant this year:
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=thunder+record+this+season+with+and+without+mike+muscala%2C+net+rating

He might make sense as our stretch center to give Siakam space if we can get him for 2-3M on an exception if we keep Lowry and Birch and want 10-15 minutes a night of stretch 5 play.

Muscala has looked really good this year by...

I like the idea of bringing him in to start. I get that that's...outside the box. But he defends, makes threes, boxes out, etc. Then you have a Birch-Boucher frontcourt coming off the bench. I like having a good stretch-big on the court by default.

But I guess I'd be open to the idea of starting Lowry & Birch and then Muscala is backup center. Boucher-Muscala is a lot of shooting from the frontcourt. Which is not a bad thing. But the idea is to pair shooting with guys who are good at attacking the rim -- hence my obsession with pairing Siakam with shooting. But regardless of the "starter" vs "backup", Siakam-Birch-Boucher-Muscala allows for a lot of mixing and matching that could be effective depending on the situation.


I'm just wondering if MM looks good (by those stats) just in comparison to the other Thunder players. I'm not sure how the stats are adjusted to reflect a mediocre player on a terrible team, like Luke Wilson's character in the unbelievably prescient movie "Idiocracy".
"Say asterisk one more time, m_____rf_____r!"
User avatar
Los Soles
Starter
Posts: 2,401
And1: 789
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Location: الوطن العربي
   

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#347 » by Los Soles » Fri May 14, 2021 5:46 pm

GLF wrote:
Los Soles wrote:
Ell Curry wrote:I haven't seen enough to have an eye test opinion but Muscala's impact on the Thunder seems to have been really significant this year:
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=thunder+record+this+season+with+and+without+mike+muscala%2C+net+rating

He might make sense as our stretch center to give Siakam space if we can get him for 2-3M on an exception if we keep Lowry and Birch and want 10-15 minutes a night of stretch 5 play.

Muscala has looked really good this year by...

I like the idea of bringing him in to start. I get that that's...outside the box. But he defends, makes threes, boxes out, etc. Then you have a Birch-Boucher frontcourt coming off the bench. I like having a good stretch-big on the court by default.

But I guess I'd be open to the idea of starting Lowry & Birch and then Muscala is backup center. Boucher-Muscala is a lot of shooting from the frontcourt. Which is not a bad thing. But the idea is to pair shooting with guys who are good at attacking the rim -- hence my obsession with pairing Siakam with shooting. But regardless of the "starter" vs "backup", Siakam-Birch-Boucher-Muscala allows for a lot of mixing and matching that could be effective depending on the situation.


Wait Muscala is a good rebounder and defender? Since when?

1) Defense is hard to quantify, but both one-year and three-year RAPM suggest that he's a very good defender, as does RAPTOR.

2) The only thing I said about his rebounding is that he boxes out, which is clearly true. I didn't reference this, but I'll say now that his team rebounds well when he's on the court -- clearly better defensive rebounding than overall NBA average.
Ell Curry
Veteran
Posts: 2,782
And1: 561
Joined: Oct 27, 2001
Location: Newfoundland

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#348 » by Ell Curry » Fri May 14, 2021 10:04 pm

XTC wrote:I wonder how much DeRozan would be asking for TBH... That and if we re-upped lowry + went after Richaun Holmes + Won the draft lottery :lol: I know we dont have the salary for all this :lol: it's more of a what if scenerio

FVV/Lowry
Cade/GTJ
OG/Derozan
Siakam/Boucher
Holmes/Birch


Hood and Baynes being guaranteeable makes for a pretty easy sign and trade (with say a future 1st or Flynn as a sweetener) for one of Holmes or Demar, but it's tough to see how both is possible unless Demar takes the MLE, and I think it's far more likely he just takes 20M for one year from the Knicks and their massive cap space and goes back on the market next year, or takes the MLE to be a starting guard on the Clippers or Lakers and go back home with a starting job on a proper contender.

Boucher + Baynes for the Spurs for signed and traded Demar (say 36/2 with a player option on the 2nd) and then Hood, Bembry and Flynn and a couple 2nds for a signed and traded Holmes (31/2 with a player option on the 2nd) I suppose could work but yeah seems unlikely.
Where's the D?
User avatar
Los Soles
Starter
Posts: 2,401
And1: 789
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Location: الوطن العربي
   

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#349 » by Los Soles » Sat May 15, 2021 12:14 am

Interesting comparison of some of the names we've mentioned according to 538's RAPTOR:

Image

  • This suggests Muscala or Portis might be basically as valuable as Turner or Holmes...but a lot cheaper (and obtainable period).
  • Muscala's on/off RAPTOR # there is very high. Suggests he does a lot right on defense, but it doesn't show in the box score stats as much.
  • I think Birch's RAPTOR numbers have climbed a lot since he joined Toronto, so this might be higher if he'd been in Toronto all year.
rapluva
Veteran
Posts: 2,938
And1: 775
Joined: Nov 20, 2008

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#350 » by rapluva » Sat May 15, 2021 4:23 am

How about we bring Ibaka back as the starting 5.

Lineup of:

Freddy Van Vleet
Garry Trent Jr.
OG Anunoby
Pascal Siakam
Serge Ibaka

Malachi Flynn
Jalen Harris
Yuta Watanabe
Chris Boucher
Khem Birch

Bembry
Stanimal
Watson
Freddy Gillispie

This team can hang with anyone in the east..

On a side note, we may not get any free agent and might bring Lowry back .
radeonboy
Analyst
Posts: 3,312
And1: 3,367
Joined: Apr 10, 2007

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#351 » by radeonboy » Sat May 15, 2021 4:43 am

Any way to get Kelly Olynyk?
User avatar
WaltFrazier
Head Coach
Posts: 6,672
And1: 5,355
Joined: Jan 21, 2006
Location: Ontario
       

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#352 » by WaltFrazier » Sat May 15, 2021 5:09 pm

radeonboy wrote:Any way to get Kelly Olynyk?


If you can't get a true athletic star at C, then a 3 headed C of Olynyk for shooting, plus Birch and Gillespie, would be pretty good.
mihaic
Veteran
Posts: 2,690
And1: 1,341
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
   

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#353 » by mihaic » Sun May 16, 2021 4:06 am

What is in the draft besides Mobley? Maybe in the second round, with one of the picks?

Saw some names, I have no clue:
Queta (did not catch him in any NCAA game, I only saw VERY few games this year)
Ibou Dianko Badji - Barcelona
Hukporti - Gerrmany
Petrusev - Serbia

Maybe our development team can bring a C along.
User avatar
Indeed
RealGM
Posts: 16,401
And1: 1,506
Joined: Aug 21, 2009

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#354 » by Indeed » Sun May 16, 2021 11:40 am

mihaic wrote:What is in the draft besides Mobley? Maybe in the second round, with one of the picks?

Saw some names, I have no clue:
Queta (did not catch him in any NCAA game, I only saw VERY few games this year)
Ibou Dianko Badji - Barcelona
Hukporti - Gerrmany
Petrusev - Serbia

Maybe our development team can bring a C along.


I don't think they are better than Gillespie.
Queta maybe less raw and has the size/wingspan to play the backup C.

We are probably developing Gillespie, so I am not sure we need another one.
I think most likely we will acquire one for cheap.
mihaic
Veteran
Posts: 2,690
And1: 1,341
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
   

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#355 » by mihaic » Sun May 16, 2021 4:28 pm

^^ I hope we can sign Birch.

Maybe the Barca guy has potential? Or the Serbian?
anotherhomer
Starter
Posts: 2,185
And1: 1,178
Joined: Jun 23, 2008

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#356 » by anotherhomer » Sun May 16, 2021 4:51 pm

not quite sure about that....he's been out for 30 games with a back injury
https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/la-clippers-serge-ibaka-100-percent-return

I have been playing with my back pain since the beginning of the season."

those things don't bold well for the future


rapluva wrote:How about we bring Ibaka back as the starting 5.

Lineup of:

Freddy Van Vleet
Garry Trent Jr.
OG Anunoby
Pascal Siakam
Serge Ibaka

Malachi Flynn
Jalen Harris
Yuta Watanabe
Chris Boucher
Khem Birch

Bembry
Stanimal
Watson
Freddy Gillispie

This team can hang with anyone in the east..

On a side note, we may not get any free agent and might bring Lowry back .
VanWest82
RealGM
Posts: 12,713
And1: 12,629
Joined: Dec 05, 2008

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#357 » by VanWest82 » Sun May 16, 2021 5:04 pm

I'd kick the tires on a trade for Derrick Favors. Birch seems better suited to a back up role. Horford would be great if not for his contract. We might have to go big man shopping in Europe.
Par36
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,085
And1: 3,974
Joined: Oct 10, 2015
   

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#358 » by Par36 » Wed May 19, 2021 8:51 pm

Allen for 100+ million Cavs?

Sweet Jesus.
Ell Curry
Veteran
Posts: 2,782
And1: 561
Joined: Oct 27, 2001
Location: Newfoundland

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#359 » by Ell Curry » Thu May 20, 2021 2:33 am

I like Jaxson Hayes. I wonder if the Pelicans would see Boucher as a good fit with Zion since he can shoot the 3 and block shots and Zion can just be the big body guarding centers. We'd need to part with something, but maybe they love someone at #7 like Scottie Barnes to fix their defense or Davion Mitchell to be their guard who turns them from a team with talent into a proper team (Mitchell-Ball-Ingram-ZIon looks right to me) and want to move up a spot.

Theis seems like our type of player. Space the floor a bit for Siakam, good mobility defensively for Nurse' aggressive schemes. The Bulls should probably throw another real wing out there to pair with Williams to fully take advantage of the Vucevic/Lavine 2 man game. Seems like he'd be happy to get the full MLE over 2 years.
Where's the D?
Ell Curry
Veteran
Posts: 2,782
And1: 561
Joined: Oct 27, 2001
Location: Newfoundland

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#360 » by Ell Curry » Thu May 20, 2021 2:51 am

mihaic wrote:What is in the draft besides Mobley? Maybe in the second round, with one of the picks?

Saw some names, I have no clue:
Queta (did not catch him in any NCAA game, I only saw VERY few games this year)
Ibou Dianko Badji - Barcelona
Hukporti - Gerrmany
Petrusev - Serbia

Maybe our development team can bring a C along.


I could see us taking Queta with one of the two 2nd rounders. He looked like a proper defensive presence and a decent passer on a terrible team. 7 blocks and 6 assists in his one tourney game and they held Texas Tech to 65, just couldn't score at all. High character guy, went from unknown recruit to a top 10 center in college basketball and may well have been the 2nd best defensive center in college basketball behind Mobley as his team finished 8th on D (opponent adjusted) and the other teams ahead of them or nearby all had actual Div 1 athletes around their center.
Where's the D?

Return to Toronto Raptors