Siakam is a DeRozan.

[OakleyDokely]

What we've learned is that Siakam is better suited in a secondary offensive role like he was in 2019.

The fact that he was successful in that role in 2019 means he has value when trying to construct a contending roster.

Using him as #1 option hasn't worked out, but he's no failure because of that. There's maybe 10 guys in the entire league who are legit #1s on championship contenders.

There's no disagreement there, but you could make a similar argument with DeRozan. Could you win a championship with DeRozan instead of Siakam on the 2019 squad or beat Boston in 2020? Arguably.

DD was miscast as a #1 option with the Raps. Ideally, he's your #2/#3. But the big problem with DD throughout his career is the lack of D. When Siakam applies himself to the defensive end, he's a plus defender who can switch and defend multiple spots on the floor. That alone has tremendous value.

[OakleyDokely]

I don't see why that is relevant now. If anything the exposure allowed other teams to game plan around him and he is getting exposed as a result. As far as I'm concerned Siakam was a recipient of right place, right time and good coaching. 54 TS% is not exactly impressive for a forward. He definitely contributed but not any more than the rest of the team. You make it seem like he was the reason they won when the only standout was Kawhi.

He's a 30 million dollar franchise player that isn't a franchise player that has lost his motor, defense, has a bad attitude that makes stingy charitable donations for tax breaks

It's relevant now because he proved he could be an effective 2nd option on a championship level team.

It's Masai's job to find another #1 guy.

Therein lies the problem. The assumption is that the exact same situation will repeat itself but you're not taking into consideration that teams have adjusted and now know how to nullify his effectiveness. I strongly believe he would be less effective if the teams knew then what they know of him now. He was a right place, right time player.

I disagree. If Kawhi was still on this team, we wouldn't be talking about Siakam's offense. We'd be talking about his effective two way play, like we did in 2019.

I think people underestimate the massive jump there is from going from a secondary 2/3 option to a #1. Not many guys in the NBA can be a #1 option efficiently.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Like Derozan, he's just a piece. The new "core" is in the 22-23 range, if something better comes along he can be moved.

Maybe he grows into that player, if not that's ok too.

[PerfectJab]

It's relevant now because he proved he could be an effective 2nd option on a championship level team.

It's Masai's job to find another #1 guy.

Therein lies the problem. The assumption is that the exact same situation will repeat itself but you're not taking into consideration that teams have adjusted and now know how to nullify his effectiveness. I strongly believe he would be less effective if the teams knew then what they know of him now. He was a right place, right time player.

I disagree. If Kawhi was still on this team, we wouldn't be talking about Siakam's offense. We'd be talking about his effective two way play, like we did in 2019.

I think people underestimate the massive jump there is from going from a secondary 2/3 option to a #1. Not many guys in the NBA can be a #1 option efficiently.

It's fair to disagree but you have to admit, he used to get a lot more fast break plays and his defense has not been the same. In the present time, I don't think he's the same player situationally and motor wise to be that 2 way player that you speak of. Those hustle plays were not Kawhi related and were a big part of who he was.

[BDDray420]

The **** bro? Demar works his ass off unlock this lazy bum.

[OakleyDokely]

Therein lies the problem. The assumption is that the exact same situation will repeat itself but you're not taking into consideration that teams have adjusted and now know how to nullify his effectiveness. I strongly believe he would be less effective if the teams knew then what they know of him now. He was a right place, right time player.

I disagree. If Kawhi was still on this team, we wouldn't be talking about Siakam's offense. We'd be talking about his effective two way play, like we did in 2019.

I think people underestimate the massive jump there is from going from a secondary 2/3 option to a #1. Not many guys in the NBA can be a #1 option efficiently.

It's fair to disagree but you have to admit, he used to get a lot more fast break plays and his defense has not been the same. In the present time, I don't think he's the same player situationally and motor wise to be that 2 way player that you speak of. Those hustle plays were not Kawhi related and were a big part of who he was.

All #1 options have to sacrifice defensively. You can't go 100% at both ends over a long season.

If Siakam was used in a secondary scoring role, I think you'd see an uptick in his defensive efficiency.

[Marty_Budda]

I disagree. If Kawhi was still on this team, we wouldn't be talking about Siakam's offense. We'd be talking about his effective two way play, like we did in 2019.

I think people underestimate the massive jump there is from going from a secondary 2/3 option to a #1. Not many guys in the NBA can be a #1 option efficiently.

It's fair to disagree but you have to admit, he used to get a lot more fast break plays and his defense has not been the same. In the present time, I don't think he's the same player situationally and motor wise to be that 2 way player that you speak of. Those hustle plays were not Kawhi related and were a big part of who he was.

All #1 options have to sacrifice defensively. You can't go 100% at both ends over a long season.

If Siakam was used in a secondary scoring role, I think you'd see an uptick in his defensive efficiency.

This ^. Prime example is Kawhi Leonard. Since becoming a 1st option his defense hasn’t been the same. I mean it’s still pretty good but he used to play GOAT level D back in 2016.

Your body can’t handle being the focal point of offense and then running around chasing guys on the perimeter on D. Some can but those are generational physical anomalies.

Pascal’s defense is still above average. It’s just not what it was. If he’s asked to lower his output on offense with a true number 1 on the team, he’ll have more energy to play D and run out for fast breaks.

[PerfectJab]

I disagree. If Kawhi was still on this team, we wouldn't be talking about Siakam's offense. We'd be talking about his effective two way play, like we did in 2019.

I think people underestimate the massive jump there is from going from a secondary 2/3 option to a #1. Not many guys in the NBA can be a #1 option efficiently.

It's fair to disagree but you have to admit, he used to get a lot more fast break plays and his defense has not been the same. In the present time, I don't think he's the same player situationally and motor wise to be that 2 way player that you speak of. Those hustle plays were not Kawhi related and were a big part of who he was.

All #1 options have to sacrifice defensively. You can't go 100% at both ends over a long season.

If Siakam was used in a secondary scoring role, I think you'd see an uptick in his defensive efficiency.

You're not taking away what he has lost. Again, you're assuming that the situation would be the exact same when it isn't. Where is that spin move? Scouted, teams just guard it outside the restricted area. Where are the fast breaks? How does his salary effect the team's ability to put together a team that is competitive? It's not the same situation!

[OakleyDokely]

It's fair to disagree but you have to admit, he used to get a lot more fast break plays and his defense has not been the same. In the present time, I don't think he's the same player situationally and motor wise to be that 2 way player that you speak of. Those hustle plays were not Kawhi related and were a big part of who he was.

All #1 options have to sacrifice defensively. You can't go 100% at both ends over a long season.

If Siakam was used in a secondary scoring role, I think you'd see an uptick in his defensive efficiency.

You're not taking away what he has lost. Again, you're assuming that the situation would be the exact same when it isn't. Where is that spin move? Scouted, teams just guard it outside the restricted area. Where are the fast breaks? How does his salary effect the team's ability to put together a team that is competitive? It's not the same situation!

What exactly has he lost? He's still a plus player on a team that has 8th worst record in the NBA.

Yes, he's not a good 1st scoring option but not everyone with a max deal is a #1 scoring option. 2nd and 3rd options on championship teams get max deals as well.

[Johnny Bball]

It's relevant now because he proved he could be an effective 2nd option on a championship level team.

It's Masai's job to find another #1 guy.

Therein lies the problem. The assumption is that the exact same situation will repeat itself but you're not taking into consideration that teams have adjusted and now know how to nullify his effectiveness. I strongly believe he would be less effective if the teams knew then what they know of him now. He was a right place, right time player.

I disagree. If Kawhi was still on this team, we wouldn't be talking about Siakam's offense. We'd be talking about his effective two way play, like we did in 2019.

I think people underestimate the massive jump there is from going from a secondary 2/3 option to a #1. Not many guys in the NBA can be a #1 option efficiently.

And what if it was DD instead of Siakam. All I hear is everyone bitching about how demar sucked but how Siakam s just miscast as a number 1. Yeah well, if Derozan had Leonard to take the best defender of hm, it would be a whole different story, yet nobody seems to think that's a fair comparison. it's mind boggling the hate for either when it's literally the same problem. And yet... somehow some people can't see it's the same problem when we've had years of it?

[OakleyDokely]

Therein lies the problem. The assumption is that the exact same situation will repeat itself but you're not taking into consideration that teams have adjusted and now know how to nullify his effectiveness. I strongly believe he would be less effective if the teams knew then what they know of him now. He was a right place, right time player.

I disagree. If Kawhi was still on this team, we wouldn't be talking about Siakam's offense. We'd be talking about his effective two way play, like we did in 2019.

I think people underestimate the massive jump there is from going from a secondary 2/3 option to a #1. Not many guys in the NBA can be a #1 option efficiently.

And what if it was DD instead of Siakam. All I hear is everyone bitching about how demar sucked but how Siakam s just miscast as a number 1. Yeah well, if Derozan had Leonard to take the best defender of hm, it would be a whole different story, yet nobody seems to think that's a fair comparison. it's mind boggling the hate for either.

The biggest difference between Siakam and DD is that Siakam isn't useless when he isn't scoring. Siakam is plus defender who can switch and defend multiple spots. DD was unplayable when he wasn't scoring the ball because his defense was so bad.

[HomieOmey]

I think Siakm is Bosh slowly turning into DeRozan. Bosh was exactly what he needed to be in Miami. Siakm at his best is Bosh in Miami, but the longer he feels like he needs to carry the team on his shoulders, the more and more he is turning into DeRozan. This team desperately needs a clear number one option OR to adopt a complete team mentality (like the Ben Wallace Pistons or Dwight lef Magic) where Siakm focuses on his strengths and only goes HAM on offence when he's absolutely feeling it.

[Johnny Bball]

I disagree. If Kawhi was still on this team, we wouldn't be talking about Siakam's offense. We'd be talking about his effective two way play, like we did in 2019.

I think people underestimate the massive jump there is from going from a secondary 2/3 option to a #1. Not many guys in the NBA can be a #1 option efficiently.

And what if it was DD instead of Siakam. All I hear is everyone bitching about how demar sucked but how Siakam s just miscast as a number 1. Yeah well, if Derozan had Leonard to take the best defender of hm, it would be a whole different story, yet nobody seems to think that's a fair comparison. it's mind boggling the hate for either.

The biggest difference between Siakam and DD is that Siakam isn't useless when he isn't scoring. Siakam is plus defender who can switch and defend multiple spots. DD was unplayable when he wasn't scoring the ball because his defense was so bad.

No, Siakam is completely useless when he isn't scoring. And it puts us in huge holes that we don't get out of. And there are far more teams that can shut down Sakam easier as opposed to Derozan.

Agan.... it is the same problem... literally what the....

[PerfectJab]

All #1 options have to sacrifice defensively. You can't go 100% at both ends over a long season.

If Siakam was used in a secondary scoring role, I think you'd see an uptick in his defensive efficiency.

You're not taking away what he has lost. Again, you're assuming that the situation would be the exact same when it isn't. Where is that spin move? Scouted, teams just guard it outside the restricted area. Where are the fast breaks? How does his salary effect the team's ability to put together a team that is competitive? It's not the same situation!

What exactly has he lost? He's still a plus player on a team that has 8th worst record in the NBA.

Yes, he's not a good 1st scoring option but not everyone with a max deal is a #1 scoring option. 2nd and 3rd options on championship teams get max deals as well.

What has he lost? Efficiency. You're basically saying a player that has become inefficient due to being exposed will become efficient as soon as he's a 2nd option again. You don't see how that is a slipper slope ignoring reality when it goes against your argument? I'll repeat again, it's not the same situation as 2019.

You just need to name the 2nd options getting paid max contracts on championship caliber teams to see the fault in your argument.
That is unless you're comparing Siakam to them. Again, it's not the same situation.

[omar36]

yall got ptsd or soemthing and forget deTRash lol.

siakim is never going to be a number 1 and thats fine but he will always be rated higher imo then demar bc he can defend.

never forget demar last game was a 30+ blowout in a 4-0 series sweep to a very weak cavs team. In a game he got ejected lol.
this board is delusional sometimes

[Dalek]

I think Siakam to take a next step just has to refine his in-between game more. Right now he is bailing out teams by shooting too many threes and getting tripped up constantly attacking the rim with little in the way of counters when the help defense sinks in.

Watch Jimmy Butler's game highlights from last night:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Basically Jimmy has good/great defense, and an offense that is mostly operating out of the mid-post/elbows and that is where Siakam really just needs to refine a bit more. Jimmy is great at hard dribble pull-up jumpers and he comes off his shot straight every time. Siakam is almost always off balance or leaning, which he needs to clean-up. Watching Jimmy I can see Siakam easily become a version of that. I love Jimmy use of hesitation dribbles to create that fraction of space needed to finish. Siakam has that ability just process way too fast at times.

Watching the Heat be a playoff team, Jimmy Butler is a fringe MVP candidate with 22 PPG, 7 assists and 7 rebounds and 2 steals while only shooting 23% from three. This can be Siakam next year, maybe better if he just stays healthy and works on his game a bit more.

It is not like Siakam is lost out there, they just need him to grow a bit more offensively in the ways that make sense for him.

[team edward]

Ah he’s a derozan.

Except he wasn’t drafted 9th overall and was never groomed for years to be a star.

And he shoots 3’s.

And he plays defense.

And he won a title.

And he’s been all nba.

But otherwise totally a derozan if you mean an all star caliber player who works hard improves every year and loves the city and franchise.

[OakleyDokely]

You're not taking away what he has lost. Again, you're assuming that the situation would be the exact same when it isn't. Where is that spin move? Scouted, teams just guard it outside the restricted area. Where are the fast breaks? How does his salary effect the team's ability to put together a team that is competitive? It's not the same situation!

What exactly has he lost? He's still a plus player on a team that has 8th worst record in the NBA.

Yes, he's not a good 1st scoring option but not everyone with a max deal is a #1 scoring option. 2nd and 3rd options on championship teams get max deals as well.

What has he lost? Efficiency. You're basically saying a player that has become inefficient due to being exposed will become efficient as soon as he's a 2nd option again. You don't see how that is a slipper slope ignoring reality when it goes against your argument? I'll repeat again, it's not the same situation as 2019.

You just need to name the 2nd options getting paid max contracts on championship caliber teams to see the fault in your argument.
That is unless you're comparing Siakam to them. Again, it's not the same situation.

He isn't efficient as a #1 option, he was efficient as 2nd/3rd option though.

There's something like 30 players on max or near max deals in the NBA. It isn't rare and it isn't reserved for the top 10-15 players. The top 2 or 3 players on a title team are usually maxed out or close to being maxed out. That's just the reality of building winning teams in the NBA. Players get rewarded for their performances and productivity especially when there's personal and team success.

[Johnny Bball]

yall got ptsd or soemthing and forget deTRash lol.

siakim is never going to be a number 1 and thats fine but he will always be rated higher imo then demar bc he can defend.

never forget demar last game was a 30+ blowout in a 4-0 series sweep to a very weak cavs team. In a game he got ejected lol.
this board is delusional sometimes

It sure is.

[MixxSRC]

Offensively it's not even close though you gotta admit.