The ultimate goal is to get at least one superstar!!

[Jadoogar]

Some people really have a simpleton approach to team building.

Step 1 - Tank Hard
Step 2 - Get Superstar
Step 3 - Build around superstar
Step 4 - Win Championship

In reality, this approach to building usually maxes out as treadmill or worse.

The average top 5 pick in the last 20 years roughly equals Norman Powell. If your goal is to get a superstar from the draft, you could very well tank for 5 years and not get one regardless of how good you tank and how good your scouting is. Truly franchise altering superstar players are a rarity.

Properly managed teams just focus on asset management, making logical decisions, managing the cap wisely and forming a strong team culture focused on developing players properly. The Raptors have all these things. If you dont land a superstar, continue to build with what you have and see where things go.

Even if you get a superstar, you can easily end up like the Wolves. KAT is probably a top 15 player in the league, they paired him with a #2 pick and another #1 pick. Not to mention their other top 10 picks like Culver and Dunn.

I'm not saying we shouldn't tank, we absolutely should. This season is lost. However we're in a good position IF we can draft a star player because the supporting cast is pretty darn good.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Tanking means stripping the team down to the bare bones. Why would you trade for a star when he'd have no one to play with?

Says who? Tanking doesn't have to equate to Hinkie's process.

The Raptors are essentially tanking right now given they are holding out and resting guys.

The Thunder have done the biggest tear down and one game separates them from the Raptors.

Regardless, your belief that people are saying tanking is the ONLY way to get a star is a total straw man. There is no one saying that. You can hold your own opinion without making up straw man arguments to strengthen your own.

This whole debate started because there's a commonly held belief here that the only way the Raps can improve is through losing big. There's countless threads about this very subject.

What the Raptors are doing currently is logical given the circumstances and you won't find many people who believe that winning this season at the expense of draft postion is the right move.

The belief is that the draft is the BEST way to add to the talent base, not the ONLY way. This is a pretty major distinction.

There is a literal civil war on this board because you had a ton of people who were never in favour of losing/tanking (there are still some people who aren't). It's easy to be on board with losing or getting a high pick at this point.

[OakleyDokely]

Says who? Tanking doesn't have to equate to Hinkie's process.

The Raptors are essentially tanking right now given they are holding out and resting guys.

The Thunder have done the biggest tear down and one game separates them from the Raptors.

Regardless, your belief that people are saying tanking is the ONLY way to get a star is a total straw man. There is no one saying that. You can hold your own opinion without making up straw man arguments to strengthen your own.

This whole debate started because there's a commonly held belief here that the only way the Raps can improve is through losing big. There's countless threads about this very subject.

What the Raptors are doing currently is logical given the circumstances and you won't find many people who believe that winning this season at the expense of draft postion is the right move.

The belief is that the draft is the BEST way to add to the talent base, not the ONLY way. This is a pretty major distinction.

There is a literal civil war on this board because you had a ton of people who were never in favour of losing/tanking (there are still some people who aren't). It's easy to be on board with losing or getting a high pick at this point.

The draft has always been the cheapest way to add talent for sure. The best organizations are the ones who find talent in the mid-late 1st round and 2nd round as stars can be found in these spots as well.

[toronto00]

The thing is the simpleton approach to building a team is still the only way to win a championship. You may not win a championship trying to find that superstar but you 100% will never win without one. You can wax poetic about well managed teams, but realistically if Kawhi doesn't become available which side note that trade in and of itself was just as flukey as winning the lottery then were probably sti here right now wondering if we're ever gonna win a championship in our history.

You need a superstar somehow. We were trying to sign giannis. Didnt work out. Again need a lot of luck. So now we turntothe draft. Knowing about our inability to sign stars, and the difficulty of trading for one, the draft is the next best option. So yeah simply put we need a superstar at all costs. Eceryrhjnt else is treafmillong until that point...

Having been a raptors fan for so long, at this point I'd rather tank than treadmill.

Here's the thing, do you know what this kind of superstar-or-bust mentality really means?
1) Tank
2) Draft high
3) Did you draft a superstar? If not, trade him away and go back to #1

Do I want to watch 10 years of tanking for every 2-3 years of contending? No, I don't.
The struggle of trying your best to win even if you aren't the most talented means something to me - it's called competition.
If championships are all that matter, just follow the top 3-4 teams each year and save yourself time and aggravation.

Agree with this take.

There is a concept of "Strategic Tanking" which is what this year is looking to be and what GS did last year, etc. I get that and can at least appreciate/agree the logic.

What I think most have a problem with is the "Tank till we Win" approach described above. This approach just destroys that winning culture that took us so long to build that actually makes it possible to keep our own stars, but also potentially attract new ones!

For those of us around here since the beginning - Kahwi would never have reported to us had we not had that!

Would rather stay competitive, have a strong culture and be opportunistic than intentionally bottom out until we get lucky and hope it stays!

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[KL78192020]

So trading all your assets for a disgruntled superstar who will leave in free agency is the Raptors path to a sustainable winner? In terms of value given up and the ensuing results the Kawhi deal worked out as well as you could ever hope for (outside of him actually re-signing) yet there are still a segment of people who think this is the way to build a contender and wasn't an extremely fortunate set of circumstances.

This era of the coastal elites started when LeBron left Cleveland for Miami. Yes, there is a lot of movement between stars, but as that Goldsberry article pointed out, it's concentrated in specific markets which doesn't include Toronto. Harden named I believe 8 teams on his trade demand, Toronto wasn't on it.

It's so disingenuous to complain that a draft pick is no sure thing then this be your argument for building a contender.

Target guys with 2 plus years left on their deals.

Nobody said you have to focus strictly on rentals.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with trading for guys on 1 or 2 year deals. But from my perspective this current team is so devoid of talent that you need at least 3/4 more solid assets and a better bench before you can think about trading for another star where its worth it to "win now" if they leave soon after. It'll be interesting to see where this team is next season, if they still stink and are back in the lottery, or Masai and Bobby go plug holes to see if they can get back in the playoffs.

[Johnny Bball]

All I keep hearing about is the center position. Let's not lose sight of what this team needs. They need a true superstar to compete and whether we land one in the draft or we trade for that guy, this is the goal.
The true contenders have either one, two or three guys and we need to get one. I agree the best way is through the draft since we can that guy for 7 years since it's hard to trade for those guys.

Let's not lose sight of this goal.

I think it’s safe to say this isn’t the ultimate goal of one single nba franchise.

But I won’t lose sight of this ultimate goal when I make our pick... sorry I mean ....wait, what?

[Johnny Bball]

Says who? Tanking doesn't have to equate to Hinkie's process.

The Raptors are essentially tanking right now given they are holding out and resting guys.

The Thunder have done the biggest tear down and one game separates them from the Raptors.

Regardless, your belief that people are saying tanking is the ONLY way to get a star is a total straw man. There is no one saying that. You can hold your own opinion without making up straw man arguments to strengthen your own.

This whole debate started because there's a commonly held belief here that the only way the Raps can improve is through losing big. There's countless threads about this very subject.

What the Raptors are doing currently is logical given the circumstances and you won't find many people who believe that winning this season at the expense of draft postion is the right move.

The belief is that the draft is the BEST way to add to the talent base, not the ONLY way. This is a pretty major distinction.

There is a literal civil war on this board because you had a ton of people who were never in favour of losing/tanking (there are still some people who aren't). It's easy to be on board with losing or getting a high pick at this point.

There is “literally a civil war on this board” because the way you and about three other people went/go about it. It has/had Sweet **** all to do with the actual concept.

But then again, you full well know that.

[Pooh_Jeter]

This whole debate started because there's a commonly held belief here that the only way the Raps can improve is through losing big. There's countless threads about this very subject.

What the Raptors are doing currently is logical given the circumstances and you won't find many people who believe that winning this season at the expense of draft postion is the right move.

The belief is that the draft is the BEST way to add to the talent base, not the ONLY way. This is a pretty major distinction.

There is a literal civil war on this board because you had a ton of people who were never in favour of losing/tanking (there are still some people who aren't). It's easy to be on board with losing or getting a high pick at this point.

There is “literally a civil war on this board” because the way you and about three other people went/go about it. It has/had Sweet **** all to do with the actual concept.

But then again, you full well know that.

Essentially all the vitriol is coming from one side, but I guess it's easier to keep blaming me.

[Johnny Bball]

The belief is that the draft is the BEST way to add to the talent base, not the ONLY way. This is a pretty major distinction.

There is a literal civil war on this board because you had a ton of people who were never in favour of losing/tanking (there are still some people who aren't). It's easy to be on board with losing or getting a high pick at this point.

There is “literally a civil war on this board” because the way you and about three other people went/go about it. It has/had Sweet **** all to do with the actual concept.

But then again, you full well know that.

Essentially all the vitriol is coming from one side, but I guess it's easier to keep blaming me.

You literally just blamed anyone that doesn't think the same way, then you play the victim.