This team ain't tanking.

[KL78192020]

I've been a reader of this forum for 3 months and registered a week and a half ago, but I have an intimate (and incorrect) knowledge of predictions made 9 months ago

He seems to be referring to people like me who brought up you and Steelo's predictions from last summer in the last TWO thread. Did you forget? I just sent a gentle reminder of your predictions during those debates

What a surprise. Pooh Jeter and Steelo Green picking the Nets.

And all the anti tankers predicted a top 4-5 team in the east challenging for the playoffs, saying there is no way the team would be out of the playoffs yet here we are. We're all wrong sometimes.

[Badonkadonk]

"As for Philadelphia, which was reportedly close to a Lowry deal but wound up opting for Oklahoma City’s George Hill instead, a source with knowledge of the talks said the Raptors indeed believed they were very close on that front late in the process and that the draft compensation was the final unresolved hurdle. The plan, the source said, was for Toronto to re-route Sixers guard Danny Green to a third team."

This is from Sam Amick from The Athletic. You had Lowe saw basically the same thing on a post trade deadline podcast. Woj and Shams leading up to and after the deadline had similar thoughts. There was a deep dive on the Lakers failed pursuit for Lowry too.

Yes, no one knows what the EXACT offers were, but to act like well sourced stuff like this is akin to conspiracy theories about Covid is laughable. Are we supposed to believe RGM posters who have 0 inside sources and a clear implicit bias?

Morey himself refutes that, even in the video above, among other sources, where he says Hill was the priority.

They weren't trading futures, period. Here's one source where Morey explains why Hill allowed them to compete this year while maximizing their future window.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

This Maxey/1sts stuff is BS.

[maternal85]

Yeah, it's a management decision to "develop the youth". Coaches just want to win every game. Players want to win, AND position themselves for contract discussions in the summer.

Nurse isn't going to play Baynes, because he wants to win. The only way he'll play Baynes is if management don't give him Khem and Freddy G. So it's arguable that management "screwed up", but who honestly expected Khem to start hitting 3s and Freddy to have such an interior impact, and make those baby hooks. We want to develop them, and Boucher at the 4, as prospects, so we have to figure out another way to lose. Watson and Yuta combining for 51 was not in the plan. Boucher hitting 30+ was not in the plan. Flynn being like a pro PG was not a given, although he was drafted because of his maturity.

So one of the ultimate goals - of having more usable players in the rotation to start next season - is being met. We'll see of the other goal of having an elite player outside of OG and Pascal is attainable at the same time. Maybe it will require getting a decently high pick, then trading it for Beal or whoever.

Agree. A better pick is preferable to a worse pick, but they're not placing the entire emphasis on getting better with this pick. It's not a moonshot. There's a season every year. There's a draft every year.

A 2nd round pick is like a 1st round pick to Ujiri. A lottery pick regardless of how high, will net us a good player or star. People shouldn't be obsessed with how high the future lottery pick will be.

[Dalek]

I think I am happy to put the Championship aura/run to bed at this point. It was good times getting Lowry a championship with Kawhi, but I think we are back to a new life cycle with the Raptors.

Part of it is testing out the talent we have and seeing who is worth keeping and who will fit well together. I think they are doing a good job the last few weeks to experiment with different things.

The important takeaway I have is that this team is back to competing once they got Birch and Gillespie. Not necessarily winning, but getting back to being a tough, grimy team to play. I think getting pounded by 20 rebounds + and giving up wide open threes because the defense couldn't man-up was the worst part of losing.

I think with the draft and free agency/trades Toronto could make a splash to be relevant again, but at least in the interim teams will know what Toronto is about.

Thats what killed me the most this season. The lack of toughness. Not that Serge and Marc were particularly gritty but their presence allowed everyone to step up their physicality knowing that a big man had their backs to clean up mistakes.

In a weird way we almost came full circle back to the Bargnani-Bosh era where we were so soft on defense. Back then I remember rejoicing for any type of draft pick or signing that brought toughness. It is like Khem Birch is the new Reggie Evans.

[Dalek]

"As for Philadelphia, which was reportedly close to a Lowry deal but wound up opting for Oklahoma City’s George Hill instead, a source with knowledge of the talks said the Raptors indeed believed they were very close on that front late in the process and that the draft compensation was the final unresolved hurdle. The plan, the source said, was for Toronto to re-route Sixers guard Danny Green to a third team."

This is from Sam Amick from The Athletic. You had Lowe saw basically the same thing on a post trade deadline podcast. Woj and Shams leading up to and after the deadline had similar thoughts. There was a deep dive on the Lakers failed pursuit for Lowry too.

Yes, no one knows what the EXACT offers were, but to act like well sourced stuff like this is akin to conspiracy theories about Covid is laughable. Are we supposed to believe RGM posters who have 0 inside sources and a clear implicit bias?

Morey himself refutes that, even in the video above, among other sources, where he says Hill was the priority.

They weren't trading futures, period. Here's one source where Morey explains why Hill allowed them to compete this year while maximizing their future window.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

This Maxey/1sts stuff is BS.

Morey can spin this whatever way he feels, but getting George Hill even for a poo-poo platter of Tony Bradley, Terrance Ferguson and two future second-round picks doesn't move any needle as Hill is nothing special. Toronto got practically the same package for TD and Matt Thomas.

I think Morey got cold feet and just wanted to avoid criticism like when he did with that Westbrook trade that killed Houston (Chris + FRPs 2024 and 2026, pick swaps in 2021 and 2025 to OKC to have the honor of Westbrick making Houston irrelevant).

[Badonkadonk]

"As for Philadelphia, which was reportedly close to a Lowry deal but wound up opting for Oklahoma City’s George Hill instead, a source with knowledge of the talks said the Raptors indeed believed they were very close on that front late in the process and that the draft compensation was the final unresolved hurdle. The plan, the source said, was for Toronto to re-route Sixers guard Danny Green to a third team."

This is from Sam Amick from The Athletic. You had Lowe saw basically the same thing on a post trade deadline podcast. Woj and Shams leading up to and after the deadline had similar thoughts. There was a deep dive on the Lakers failed pursuit for Lowry too.

Yes, no one knows what the EXACT offers were, but to act like well sourced stuff like this is akin to conspiracy theories about Covid is laughable. Are we supposed to believe RGM posters who have 0 inside sources and a clear implicit bias?

Morey himself refutes that, even in the video above, among other sources, where he says Hill was the priority.

They weren't trading futures, period. Here's one source where Morey explains why Hill allowed them to compete this year while maximizing their future window.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

This Maxey/1sts stuff is BS.

Morey can spin this whatever way he feels, but getting George Hill even for a poo-poo platter of Tony Bradley, Terrance Ferguson and two future second-round picks doesn't move any needle as Hill is nothing special. Toronto got practically the same package for TD and Matt Thomas.

I think Morey got cold feet and just wanted to avoid criticism like when he did with that Westbrook trade that killed Houston (Chris + FRPs 2024 and 2026, pick swaps in 2021 and 2025 to OKC to have the honor of Westbrick making Houston irrelevant).

I completely agree. I think Morey and Riley were the primary losers at the trade deadline.

The East is ripe with the Nets health issues (Harden hurt his hammy again). Oladipo and Hill were very weak moves.

[Los_29]

He seems to be referring to people like me who brought up you and Steelo's predictions from last summer in the last TWO thread. Did you forget? I just sent a gentle reminder of your predictions during those debates

What a surprise. Pooh Jeter and Steelo Green picking the Nets.

And all the anti tankers predicted a top 4-5 team in the east challenging for the playoffs, saying there is no way the team would be out of the playoffs yet here we are. We're all wrong sometimes.

Picking this team to finish in the top 5 this season is nowhere near as bad as picking them to lose to the Nets last year. Not even close. Picking the Nets to win was nonsensical.

[canada_dry]

What a surprise. Pooh Jeter and Steelo Green picking the Nets.

And all the anti tankers predicted a top 4-5 team in the east challenging for the playoffs, saying there is no way the team would be out of the playoffs yet here we are. We're all wrong sometimes.

Picking this team to finish in the top 5 this season is nowhere near as bad as picking them to lose to the Nets last year. Not even close. Picking the Nets to win was nonsensical.

Nonsensical is the norm for some.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[OAKLEY_2]

"As for Philadelphia, which was reportedly close to a Lowry deal but wound up opting for Oklahoma City’s George Hill instead, a source with knowledge of the talks said the Raptors indeed believed they were very close on that front late in the process and that the draft compensation was the final unresolved hurdle. The plan, the source said, was for Toronto to re-route Sixers guard Danny Green to a third team."

This is from Sam Amick from The Athletic. You had Lowe saw basically the same thing on a post trade deadline podcast. Woj and Shams leading up to and after the deadline had similar thoughts. There was a deep dive on the Lakers failed pursuit for Lowry too.

Yes, no one knows what the EXACT offers were, but to act like well sourced stuff like this is akin to conspiracy theories about Covid is laughable. Are we supposed to believe RGM posters who have 0 inside sources and a clear implicit bias?

Morey himself refutes that, even in the video above, among other sources, where he says Hill was the priority.

They weren't trading futures, period. Here's one source where Morey explains why Hill allowed them to compete this year while maximizing their future window.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

This Maxey/1sts stuff is BS.

I got fleeced by our former Philly GM for Lowry in 2012. So like was I going to revisit that trauma again and have him steal Maxey and turn him into an allstar in their system? I got George Hill for a case of beer.

[bballsparkin]

I say judge the non-Lowry trade in the summer. Just like this whole strange season. Maybe Maxey was or wasn't offered. Maybe the FO just isn't a fan. Picks? Well we got two SRPs. Both wins imo. Plus a likely top 10 pick. Lucky 7 suits me better. Yet you can't just punt the season. Testing out Birch and Freddie could be valuable in the long run.

We got people on here wanting to pick Tre Man and/or Springer. CBSsports has them at 12 + 13. Sometimes picking later can pay dividends by picking the player you wanted not the one you should. Obviously top 4 please but no matter things don't seem so dire to me.

[Dalek]

I say judge the non-Lowry trade in the summer. Just like this whole strange season. Maybe Maxey was or wasn't offered. Maybe the FO just isn't a fan. Picks? Well we got two SRPs. Both wins imo. Plus a likely top 10 pick. Lucky 7 suits me better. Yet you can't just punt the season. Testing out Birch and Freddie could be valuable in the long run.

We got people on here wanting to pick Tre Man and/or Springer. CBSsports has them at 12 + 13. Sometimes picking later can pay dividends by picking the player you wanted not the one you should. Obviously top 4 please but no matter things don't seem so dire to me.

I definitely think Toronto can make the best of whatever pick they draft at. The value range of picks in the second tier is pretty flat.

I just think this year is the best opportunity to get a high pick for Toronto. This is a good, well-managed team that should always be in the playoffs with the talent and culture it has. I don't expect to be picking in the lottery next year.

Ideally, this is the year where Toronto gets jumbo-size creator, or an athletic wing that can draw fouls. To me, those are pretty rare player archetypes to get in the draft and usually are at the top few picks. This is a weird year where there are a lot of those players available within the top-ten.

I always think of the Ross draft. Just picking a couple spot higher gets you Lillard or Barnes, but you just miss out and get Ross. He was fine but never amounted to much more than a scorer while the others are a franchise level player and a starter.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I say judge the non-Lowry trade in the summer. Just like this whole strange season. Maybe Maxey was or wasn't offered. Maybe the FO just isn't a fan. Picks? Well we got two SRPs. Both wins imo. Plus a likely top 10 pick. Lucky 7 suits me better. Yet you can't just punt the season. Testing out Birch and Freddie could be valuable in the long run.

We got people on here wanting to pick Tre Man and/or Springer. CBSsports has them at 12 + 13. Sometimes picking later can pay dividends by picking the player you wanted not the one you should. Obviously top 4 please but no matter things don't seem so dire to me.

I definitely think Toronto can make the best of whatever pick they draft at. The value range of picks in the second tier is pretty flat.

I just think this year is the best opportunity to get a high pick for Toronto. This is a good, well-managed team that should always be in the playoffs with the talent and culture it has. I don't expect to be picking in the lottery next year.

Ideally, this is the year where Toronto gets jumbo-size creator, or an athletic wing that can draw fouls. To me, those are pretty rare player archetypes to get in the draft and usually are at the top few picks. This is a weird year where there are a lot of those players available within the top-ten.

I always think of the Ross draft. Just picking a couple spot higher gets you Lillard or Barnes, but you just miss out and get Ross. He was fine but never amounted to much more than a scorer while the others are a franchise level player and a starter.

The Raptors ended up with a top 5 pick and passed on Kawhi. So, there's plenty of this might happen and that might happen to go around.

I don't have confidence that the Raptors can make the best pick in the lottery, I just feel confident that they'll get more picks right than the field, but those are results born out over time.

[Zeno]

I say judge the non-Lowry trade in the summer. Just like this whole strange season. Maybe Maxey was or wasn't offered. Maybe the FO just isn't a fan. Picks? Well we got two SRPs. Both wins imo. Plus a likely top 10 pick. Lucky 7 suits me better. Yet you can't just punt the season. Testing out Birch and Freddie could be valuable in the long run.

We got people on here wanting to pick Tre Man and/or Springer. CBSsports has them at 12 + 13. Sometimes picking later can pay dividends by picking the player you wanted not the one you should. Obviously top 4 please but no matter things don't seem so dire to me.

I definitely think Toronto can make the best of whatever pick they draft at. The value range of picks in the second tier is pretty flat.

I just think this year is the best opportunity to get a high pick for Toronto. This is a good, well-managed team that should always be in the playoffs with the talent and culture it has. I don't expect to be picking in the lottery next year.

Ideally, this is the year where Toronto gets jumbo-size creator, or an athletic wing that can draw fouls. To me, those are pretty rare player archetypes to get in the draft and usually are at the top few picks. This is a weird year where there are a lot of those players available within the top-ten.

I always think of the Ross draft. Just picking a couple spot higher gets you Lillard or Barnes, but you just miss out and get Ross. He was fine but never amounted to much more than a scorer while the others are a franchise level player and a starter.

The Raptors ended up with a top 5 pick and passed on Kawhi. So, there's plenty of this might happen and that might happen to go around.

I don't have confidence that the Raptors can make the best pick in the lottery, I just feel confident that they'll get more picks right than the field, but those are results born out over time.

I agree with your post and just want to point out that at the time there was rumored interest from the Raptors in taking Kawhi and that most people here were flipping out that we'd be "reaching" for a player like him at the spot we were at. There were alot of posts about Joey Graham if I recall correctly.