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Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps

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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#61 » by djsunyc » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:01 pm

Merit wrote:Freddie is the new Bebe imo. With better work ethic and no substance (ab)use challenges.

To me, the raps have two developmental timelines. I’d lump Gillespie in with OG and GTJ, while Khem aligns with Fred, Pascal and Boucher.


he is an awful defender. like team defense destroying b/c he can't guard in space. he's a project but i highly doubt he is anything more than a 13-15th man in today's nba.
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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#62 » by visionquest » Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:46 pm

Huge project. If management thought he was something more, they would have signed him for longer. As it is, he may not make it past next training camp. Cool guy but doesnt have a rebounding knack and that's his big skill apparently. He looks lost out there but that can be corrected with more study and playing time.

Super cool guy otherwise.
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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#63 » by XTC » Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:42 pm

Hes not a guy you give long terms to early on just because you dont know what you have with him. He did great early on because he was hungry. Does he keep the same hunger once he has secured the bag?
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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#64 » by libertyYYZ » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:02 pm

djsunyc wrote:
Merit wrote:Freddie is the new Bebe imo. With better work ethic and no substance (ab)use challenges.

To me, the raps have two developmental timelines. I’d lump Gillespie in with OG and GTJ, while Khem aligns with Fred, Pascal and Boucher.


he is an awful defender. like team defense destroying b/c he can't guard in space. he's a project but i highly doubt he is anything more than a 13-15th man in today's nba.

No Summer League, no summer drills, no pre-season. He looked decent against weak competition (Cavs, etc) and has some warts against better competition (Nets, Nuggets, etc) that's better at picking mismatches. What are you expecting? Is GTJ fully integrated into the team defence? So, a G-League prospect that they're evaluating late season is an awful defender in his first stint at this level?! Sure, let's pull the bearded Aussie guy out of storage.
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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#65 » by Merit » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:45 pm

djsunyc wrote:
Merit wrote:Freddie is the new Bebe imo. With better work ethic and no substance (ab)use challenges.

To me, the raps have two developmental timelines. I’d lump Gillespie in with OG and GTJ, while Khem aligns with Fred, Pascal and Boucher.


he is an awful defender. like team defense destroying b/c he can't guard in space. he's a project but i highly doubt he is anything more than a 13-15th man in today's nba.


I mean, we’ve been surprised quite often. Consider me someone who didn’t expect Chris Boucher to perform as well as he did this season. I considered Bebe an end of bench big with potential for more - only he never really grew into it. His advanced stats and length were definite assets he never leveraged fully.
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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#66 » by Indeed » Sat May 1, 2021 12:36 am

tecumseh18 wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Hes a nice 3rd center on a good team that can maybe develop into a primary backup. Also think Birch is a good backup too. Now let's add a starting center in the offseason and we're good at that position.


I am hoping that. I am not in tune with cap stuff, is there room for Birch and Gillespie both as backups, and still get that bigger better starting C?


To me, the ideal achievable goal should be to exhaust the cap space on re-signing our own Bird rights players (including Kyle, which may be a sign and trade) then sign a decent C who can shoot (Theis or Olynyk) for the MLE, and re-sign Birch for the room exception of ~5 mill.

If Kyle walks this offseason with no returning contracts, then a goal may be to sign Richaun Holmes for 15 mill with the cap space. Not sure if there will be enough cap space left over to bring back Birch in that event. But Holmes isn't bigger than Birch. Not sure it's worth overpaying for Holmes when Birch is a similar type of player, albeit one who can hit 3s. Why not just could get a MLE-level C (even add on an extra mill for the Toronto premium) plus Birch with cap space for a total of, say, $17 mill for the pair.


I am afraid Birch is a better fit than Holmes. Birch is amount the same size as Holmes, maybe Holmes is a bit quicker, but Birch is not far behind in positioning. As for offense, I think Birch is a much better passer with shooting range to 3 for spacing.

I think we maybe better of getting Dieng as the backup of Birch, as Dieng is better and may able to bang better against Jokic or Embiid. I haven't watched Dieng though, hope he isn't Baynes 2.0
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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#67 » by tecumseh18 » Sat May 1, 2021 4:33 am

Indeed wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:
I am hoping that. I am not in tune with cap stuff, is there room for Birch and Gillespie both as backups, and still get that bigger better starting C?


To me, the ideal achievable goal should be to exhaust the cap space on re-signing our own Bird rights players (including Kyle, which may be a sign and trade) then sign a decent C who can shoot (Theis or Olynyk) for the MLE, and re-sign Birch for the room exception of ~5 mill.

If Kyle walks this offseason with no returning contracts, then a goal may be to sign Richaun Holmes for 15 mill with the cap space. Not sure if there will be enough cap space left over to bring back Birch in that event. But Holmes isn't bigger than Birch. Not sure it's worth overpaying for Holmes when Birch is a similar type of player, albeit one who can hit 3s. Why not just could get a MLE-level C (even add on an extra mill for the Toronto premium) plus Birch with cap space for a total of, say, $17 mill for the pair.


I am afraid Birch is a better fit than Holmes. Birch is amount the same size as Holmes, maybe Holmes is a bit quicker, but Birch is not far behind in positioning. As for offense, I think Birch is a much better passer with shooting range to 3 for spacing.

I think we maybe better of getting Dieng as the backup of Birch, as Dieng is better and may able to bang better against Jokic or Embiid. I haven't watched Dieng though, hope he isn't Baynes 2.0


Who is this Dieng? I never see him play. He was DNP-CD yet again tonight against the Celtics.

Theoretically, he sounds great. But is he injured all the time? Does he even want to come to Toronto?
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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#68 » by WaltFrazier » Sat May 1, 2021 8:15 pm

antonaki1 wrote:We don't have the three point shooting from our centers but what we do have is two very active centers really bringing it on both ends. Tirelessly setting great screens, agile enough to come out and show at the arc in the defensive zone and still able to collapse and stay with a driving guard.

They are both active offensive rebounders and that's an advantage that you wouldn't have if your centers are always sitting at the top of the arc on offence. They are both capable of becoming good pic n roll centers and that's a must. I don't think we need another center anymore because they have limited ability to really impact in today's game unless your an Embid or Jokic. We can use our resources on other needs as we will often want to play small ball anyways.


If we can't get a really good starting C, then Olynyk with his 3 point shooting would be a nice combination with Birch. Along with OG and Pascal, with Boucher getting good minutes as a 4-5 combo depending on matchups. And Freddie as 3rd C.
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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#69 » by libertyYYZ » Sat May 1, 2021 11:39 pm

WaltFrazier wrote:
antonaki1 wrote:We don't have the three point shooting from our centers but what we do have is two very active centers really bringing it on both ends. Tirelessly setting great screens, agile enough to come out and show at the arc in the defensive zone and still able to collapse and stay with a driving guard.

They are both active offensive rebounders and that's an advantage that you wouldn't have if your centers are always sitting at the top of the arc on offence. They are both capable of becoming good pic n roll centers and that's a must. I don't think we need another center anymore because they have limited ability to really impact in today's game unless your an Embid or Jokic. We can use our resources on other needs as we will often want to play small ball anyways.


If we can't get a really good starting C, then Olynyk with his 3 point shooting would be a nice combination with Birch. Along with OG and Pascal, with Boucher getting good minutes as a 4-5 combo depending on matchups. And Freddie as 3rd C.

Bingo! All the good teams can throw a variety of offensive and defensive looks. Olynyk has a bit of a nasty streak (Kevin Love says hello) which we will need on occasion in the playoffs. He would be a decent backup 2 if he's available.
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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#70 » by tecumseh18 » Mon May 3, 2021 4:55 pm

libertyYYZ wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
Merit wrote:Freddie is the new Bebe imo. With better work ethic and no substance (ab)use challenges.

To me, the raps have two developmental timelines. I’d lump Gillespie in with OG and GTJ, while Khem aligns with Fred, Pascal and Boucher.


he is an awful defender. like team defense destroying b/c he can't guard in space. he's a project but i highly doubt he is anything more than a 13-15th man in today's nba.

No Summer League, no summer drills, no pre-season. He looked decent against weak competition (Cavs, etc) and has some warts against better competition (Nets, Nuggets, etc) that's better at picking mismatches. What are you expecting? Is GTJ fully integrated into the team defence? So, a G-League prospect that they're evaluating late season is an awful defender in his first stint at this level?! Sure, let's pull the bearded Aussie guy out of storage.


Freddie's been really good against strong competition the last two games. I had sorta given up on him last week, but he's proving he belongs in the league. That 12 foot hook shot was a revelation. Nurse was saying PG that they're working with Freddie on how to have patience down in the low post, given his relative lack of height.
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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#71 » by Psubs » Mon May 3, 2021 5:43 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:
libertyYYZ wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
he is an awful defender. like team defense destroying b/c he can't guard in space. he's a project but i highly doubt he is anything more than a 13-15th man in today's nba.

No Summer League, no summer drills, no pre-season. He looked decent against weak competition (Cavs, etc) and has some warts against better competition (Nets, Nuggets, etc) that's better at picking mismatches. What are you expecting? Is GTJ fully integrated into the team defence? So, a G-League prospect that they're evaluating late season is an awful defender in his first stint at this level?! Sure, let's pull the bearded Aussie guy out of storage.


Freddie's been really good against strong competition the last two games. I had sorta given up on him last week, but he's proving he belongs in the league. That 12 foot hook shot was a revelation. Nurse was saying PG that they're working with Freddie on how to have patience down in the low post, given his relative lack of height.


Freddie seems like he could be Amir 2.0, undersized bench PF/C. I'm cool having him for the min each year who can fill in for rest and injuries.

I like the Olynyk/Birch complementary combo at C.
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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#72 » by Merit » Tue May 4, 2021 8:16 pm

Psubs wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:
libertyYYZ wrote:No Summer League, no summer drills, no pre-season. He looked decent against weak competition (Cavs, etc) and has some warts against better competition (Nets, Nuggets, etc) that's better at picking mismatches. What are you expecting? Is GTJ fully integrated into the team defence? So, a G-League prospect that they're evaluating late season is an awful defender in his first stint at this level?! Sure, let's pull the bearded Aussie guy out of storage.


Freddie's been really good against strong competition the last two games. I had sorta given up on him last week, but he's proving he belongs in the league. That 12 foot hook shot was a revelation. Nurse was saying PG that they're working with Freddie on how to have patience down in the low post, given his relative lack of height.


Freddie seems like he could be Amir 2.0, undersized bench PF/C. I'm cool having him for the min each year who can fill in for rest and injuries.

I like the Olynyk/Birch complementary combo at C.


Really like the idea of an Olynyk/Birch/Boucher triumvirate - both on the raps and on the Canadian National team.
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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#73 » by tecumseh18 » Tue May 4, 2021 9:03 pm

Merit wrote:
Psubs wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:
Freddie's been really good against strong competition the last two games. I had sorta given up on him last week, but he's proving he belongs in the league. That 12 foot hook shot was a revelation. Nurse was saying PG that they're working with Freddie on how to have patience down in the low post, given his relative lack of height.


Freddie seems like he could be Amir 2.0, undersized bench PF/C. I'm cool having him for the min each year who can fill in for rest and injuries.

I like the Olynyk/Birch complementary combo at C.


Really like the idea of an Olynyk/Birch/Boucher triumvirate - both on the raps and on the Canadian National team.


Nurse has made it clear that Boucher is a PF. Quite happy for Freddy to take spot minutes at third string C, when he's not in G-League. And if we get Olynyk (and why the hell shouldn't we?), then I would still start Birch for defensive purposes. He was fine the last two games against two of the biggest Cs in the league. His shot wasn't falling against the Lakers, but I don't think that was because of Drummond's defensive prowess.
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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#74 » by Indeed » Thu May 6, 2021 4:14 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:
Merit wrote:
Psubs wrote:
Freddie seems like he could be Amir 2.0, undersized bench PF/C. I'm cool having him for the min each year who can fill in for rest and injuries.

I like the Olynyk/Birch complementary combo at C.


Really like the idea of an Olynyk/Birch/Boucher triumvirate - both on the raps and on the Canadian National team.


Nurse has made it clear that Boucher is a PF. Quite happy for Freddy to take spot minutes at third string C, when he's not in G-League. And if we get Olynyk (and why the hell shouldn't we?), then I would still start Birch for defensive purposes. He was fine the last two games against two of the biggest Cs in the league. His shot wasn't falling against the Lakers, but I don't think that was because of Drummond's defensive prowess.


He is not strong enough against Drummond. Drummond scored on him in the low post, so I am not sure Birch is enough. I think for us to go deep into the playoffs, we still need a banging big who can really go against Embiid as a rotation or backup with Birch. Gillespie can continue to develop and have some injury times to fill.
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Re: Freddie Gillespie Signing a 2 year Contract with the Raps 

Post#75 » by tecumseh18 » Thu May 6, 2021 5:37 pm

Indeed wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:
Merit wrote:
Really like the idea of an Olynyk/Birch/Boucher triumvirate - both on the raps and on the Canadian National team.


Nurse has made it clear that Boucher is a PF. Quite happy for Freddy to take spot minutes at third string C, when he's not in G-League. And if we get Olynyk (and why the hell shouldn't we?), then I would still start Birch for defensive purposes. He was fine the last two games against two of the biggest Cs in the league. His shot wasn't falling against the Lakers, but I don't think that was because of Drummond's defensive prowess.


He is not strong enough against Drummond. Drummond scored on him in the low post, so I am not sure Birch is enough. I think for us to go deep into the playoffs, we still need a banging big who can really go against Embiid as a rotation or backup with Birch. Gillespie can continue to develop and have some injury times to fill.


Raps don't mind if teams score on low-percentage postups. You may have noticed that the Raps won that game. If Drummond had been a net positive, Lakers would have gone back to him throughout the game. To my eyes, Birch and Gillespie put up enough resistance to make Vogel not want to do that.

The real question is how Birch and Gilly play against legit stretch bigs, like Embiid or even wash-up Gasol. How well do they defend on the perimeter? But we've seemed to survive against Jokic through both Nuggets games.
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