The Sixers plan on pursuing Kyle Lowry again this offseason via S&T

[TD2FutureStar]

Trade fvv and keep Kyle. You can rebuild w Kyle he's proving to be an incredible mentor. Look what he's done with Flynn. They also play well together. Bring him back and sell FVV to Chicago.

[slicedbread2]

Raptors have no leverage this summer. 76ers were unwilling to meet our valuation at the deadline. They have 0 reason to meet it in the off season.

If Sixers want Lowry, they don't have a choice but to work with us. They can only offer Kyle the taxpayer MLE of ~$5 mill. Raps would pay triple that.

But why wouldn't Kyle just go to the Heat?

Cause Riley wants Oladipo AND Lowry. I can see a S&T with Dragic happening. Of course, deal would have to be worked out behind closed doors prior to start of FA so Dragic's team option is put up but I can see Riley parting with Herro or a first round pick with all that negative publicity coming out about him.

I think that's what a lot of people tend to forget. The Raptors could've nabbed Achiuwa, Robinson and Dragic if Miami was given an opportunity to nab both Lowry and Oladipo. If Riley was willing to offer up Achiuwa and say eat some salary they could've done something like this where the Raptors cash in on Boucher and Lowry plus build for the future:

Detroit: Victor Oladipo(bought out), Stanley Johnson
New Orleans: Kelly Olynyk, Cory Joseph, Duncan Robinson, Ben McLemore, Wayne Ellington. Could buy out Wayne/Ben.
Houston: Pat McCaw, James Johnson, Rodney McGruder
Miami: Kyle Lowry, Chris Boucher, Oladipo(post buyout), Danuel House Jr.
Dallas: Goran Dragic
Toronto: Precious Achiuwa, Andre Igoudala, J.J. Redick(bought out), Eric Bledsoe, D.J Augustin, 2 1sts from NOLA(via LAL+future 1st), 6 2nds(3 via DAL+3 from NOLA) NO has a crap ton of 2nds they'd be willing to give to get out of Bled's deal.

I managed to come up with a deal where all teams stay under the tax and if Masai could've snagged a deal like this when the Raps were 5th in the lotto odds, they could've solidified the opportunity to get a top 5 pick while building for the future. This would've been my reasoning and it took a lot of number crunching:

-Detroit gets out of paying Cory Joseph's extra 2.4M for next year and continue rebuilding while opening up roster spots to take a chance on young dudes.
-Eric Bledsoe is a great tank commander who has been killing NOLA this year with his low BB IQ and is a negative whenever they are on the floor. With this deal NOLA fills out their roster and stays under the luxury tax while upgrading their bench which has blown numerous leads when Zion+BI sit plus they save over $20M in future money owed to Bledsoe. Plus they take a flyer on Robinson who could fit perfectly as a catch and shoot dude next to BI+Zion and be the floor spacer they need. Plus this deal would open up cap space needed to resign Lonzo plus fill out other holes in the roster.
-Houston saves over $11M in future salary owed to Augustin and House Jr. Their owner is strapped for cash and he'd do this deal knowing they are shedding salary.
-Dallas upgrades their team short term while giving up a past his prime Redick and get a secondary ball handler to Doncic in the dragon all for 3 2nds.
-Miami gets that backup C/PF in Boucher while getting Kyle and Vic to try out and see if they'd fit on their roster. House Jr. can be used for their bench in a scorer role and they could see if a change of scenery could get his career back on track.
-Toronto takes a tough pill to swallow, but they could decline the T/O of Iggy, Baynes and Hood. Augustin and Bledsoe's deals are expiring next year and are only guaranteed for $333,333k and $3.9M respectively. They get a crap ton of picks to help in the next phase of building with OG and Achiuwa as a building block with Trent Jr and Flynn.

I think as painful as the short term would be, long term they'd be better off as once they decided to let Ibaka go, it was time. I'll miss Lowry, but they were in a tough spot. It's fun to take a wild guess of what could've been done but oh well.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

We're probably in a better position than them next year. It really doesn't make sense when you realize the C position problem will be fixed and we're probably going to boyee right back up into our normal position with HCA back.

Like, let's not forget they where talking about then breaking that team up before the season started(and for a number of years before). This season isn't a good indicator of forward guidance, it's more of an anomaly. They still have the same problems, it's just their competition lost HCA for the year.

So, making a trade with the competition makes no sense for us.

[Psubs]

We're probably in a better position than them next year. It really doesn't make sense when you realize the C position problem will be fixed and we're probably going to boyee right back up into our normal position with HCA back.

Like, let's not forget they where talking about then breaking that team up before the season started(and for a number of years before). This season isn't a good indicator of forward guidance, it's more of an anomaly. They still have the same problems, it's just their competition lost HCA for the year.

So, making a trade with the competition makes no sense for us.

But Philly doesn't know that Kyle is almost going to downward spiral like Marc Gasol in a year or 2.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

But Philly doesn't know that Kyle is almost going to downward spiral like Marc Gasol in a year or 2.

I'm fine if they want to offer something good. Otherwise, the competition isn't on the open market.

They still have to give up assets to get him.

[elecblue]

I think there's a potential for Masai and Bobby to pull off something truly great here, if stars align. Let's say Sixers lose to the Bucks in the second round, I can definitely see them survey the field and come to the conclusion that Lowry is exactly what they need. In that scenario, it's completely logical for them to offer George Hill, Maxey, Korkmaz in a S&T (if all 3 sides agree of course), and let's say a heavily protected first, for Lowry S&T. Raptors can then keep Maxey, Korkmaz, and then route George Hill to another team for some undesirable contract (say maybe Patrick Beverly from Clippers), and pick up another small asset (say a late second). Then They can waive & stretch Beverly's contract over 3 years, potentially getting access to some small cap space again. Then they'd still have their mid-level and bi-annual exceptions. This same outline works with Miami or Lakers too, with different moving parts.

[Ackshun]

We're probably in a better position than them next year. It really doesn't make sense when you realize the C position problem will be fixed and we're probably going to boyee right back up into our normal position with HCA back.

Like, let's not forget they where talking about then breaking that team up before the season started(and for a number of years before). This season isn't a good indicator of forward guidance, it's more of an anomaly. They still have the same problems, it's just their competition lost HCA for the year.

So, making a trade with the competition makes no sense for us.

We are 10-21 on the road and 16-16 at home. Even if we were 32-0 at home, we would still be in 5th place in the east.

It's not home court. It's not covid, since many teams suffered the same fate. It's talent.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

We are 10-21 on the road and 16-16 at home. Even if we were 32-0 at home, we would still be in 5th place in the east.

It's not home court. It's not covid, since many teams suffered the same fare. It's talent.

What's road? Don't you need a home court for that to exist.

Aren't these stats pointless if home court is in Tampa? Name another team that has this problem. They don't exist.

That's really the problem, this season's an asterisk from our POV. You can't correlate it to anything.

[Ackshun]

We are 10-21 on the road and 16-16 at home. Even if we were 32-0 at home, we would still be in 5th place in the east.

It's not home court. It's not covid, since many teams suffered the same fare. It's talent.

What's road? Don't you need a home court for that to exist.

Aren't these stats pointless if home court is in Tampa? Name another team that has this problem. They don't exist.

That's really the problem, this season's an asterisk from our POV. You can't correlate it to anything.

To clarify, you are stating that their road record is awful, because their home games are in Tampa?

I can see your reasoning, but I'm not sure I agree with it.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

To clarify, you are stating that their road record is awful, because their home games are in Tampa?

I can see your reasoning, but I'm not sure I agree with it.

I'm saying the Tampa Bay Raptors wont be in the NBA next year.

[Ackshun]

To clarify, you are stating that their road record is awful, because their home games are in Tampa?

I can see your reasoning, but I'm not sure I agree with it.

I'm saying the Tampa Bay Raptors wont be in the NBA next year. [/quote

Yeah fair enough. I still think this squad would have struggled here in Toronto. The centre position being the obvious weakness. We also had a terrible mishmash rotation throughout the year. Finally with 15 games left, we sorta found a proper rotation.

[douggood]

We're probably in a better position than them next year. It really doesn't make sense when you realize the C position problem will be fixed and we're probably going to boyee right back up into our normal position with HCA back.

Like, let's not forget they where talking about then breaking that team up before the season started(and for a number of years before). This season isn't a good indicator of forward guidance, it's more of an anomaly. They still have the same problems, it's just their competition lost HCA for the year.

So, making a trade with the competition makes no sense for us.

We are 10-21 on the road and 16-16 at home. Even if we were 32-0 at home, we would still be in 5th place in the east.

It's not home court. It's not covid, since many teams suffered the same fate. It's talent.

+/- on the season compared to record, plus my eye test, tells me its it was a lot of bad luck, and aaron baynes. not team talent, just 1 player/position torpedoed the season.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Yeah fair enough. I still think this squad would have struggled here in Toronto. The centre position being the obvious weakness. We also had a terrible mishmash rotation throughout the year. Finally with 15 games left, we sorta found a proper rotation.

We're past the Baynes error, err era.

It'll get sorted either way.

[Ackshun]

Yeah fair enough. I still think this squad would have struggled here in Toronto. The centre position being the obvious weakness. We also had a terrible mishmash rotation throughout the year. Finally with 15 games left, we sorta found a proper rotation.

We're past the Baynes error, err era.

It'll get sorted either way.

We do have one of the top 6 point differentials in the East. So yeah, definitely a weird season.

[Los_29]

To clarify, you are stating that their road record is awful, because their home games are in Tampa?

I can see your reasoning, but I'm not sure I agree with it.

I'm saying the Tampa Bay Raptors wont be in the NBA next year. [/quote

Yeah fair enough. I still think this squad would have struggled here in Toronto. The centre position being the obvious weakness. We also had a terrible mishmash rotation throughout the year. Finally with 15 games left, we sorta found a proper rotation.

I think so too. We just don't have any depth. Our bench production this year has been horrendous and our starters have missed too many games. Even when healthy we just lacked production from our C position and the bench. It appears as though Birch can be a nice piece moving forward which is good news though. If the FO can add another big on top of our lottery pick plus continued growth from Flynn and GTJ then I think we'll be in very good shape next year. Doubt we'll be a top 4 seed but I see us making the playoffs.

[missionman]

Trade fvv and keep Kyle. You can rebuild w Kyle he's proving to be an incredible mentor. Look what he's done with Flynn. They also play well together. Bring him back and sell FVV to Chicago.

This needs its own post. I am curious how unpopular this take is but I'm onboard.

I like FVV, but he is an undersized, under-athletic SG. OR a small 3+d player that can play PG in a pinch.

FVV has never developed great PNR with centers like Lowry has. And that's a problem when the Raptors don't have a 2/3 that can create his own shot (alas, Siakam has gone backwards, from what many of us had hoped).

If there were a trade out there for FVV (and I am cold blooded) I'd have to consider it. Chicago is a great idea as it doesn;t hurt FVV"s feelings too much - some pkg for Levine?

I'm scared to start a post/poll with your idea, for fear of being ripped...

[Psubs]

I'm saying the Tampa Bay Raptors wont be in the NBA next year. [/quote

Yeah fair enough. I still think this squad would have struggled here in Toronto. The centre position being the obvious weakness. We also had a terrible mishmash rotation throughout the year. Finally with 15 games left, we sorta found a proper rotation.

I think so too. We just don't have any depth. Our bench production this year has been horrendous and our starters have missed too many games. Even when healthy we just lacked production from our C position and the bench. It appears as though Birch can be a nice piece moving forward which is good news though. If the FO can add another big on top of our lottery pick plus continued growth from Flynn and GTJ then I think we'll be in very good shape next year. Doubt we'll be a top 4 seed but I see us making the playoffs.

Things will get better when things get sorted out in the summer.

Out: Baynes, Hood, Stanley and Bembry

In: Whatever they get from Lowry S&T, 1st pick, maybe one of the 2nd picks?

PG FVV - Flynn - Harris
SG Trent - Watson - Harris
SF OG - 1st pick - Yuta
PF Siakam - Boucher - OG
C Birch - Boucher/Gillespie

[Danny1616]

Trade fvv and keep Kyle. You can rebuild w Kyle he's proving to be an incredible mentor. Look what he's done with Flynn. They also play well together. Bring him back and sell FVV to Chicago.

This needs its own post. I am curious how unpopular this take is but I'm onboard.

I like FVV, but he is an undersized, under-athletic SG. OR a small 3+d player that can play PG in a pinch.

FVV has never developed great PNR with centers like Lowry has. And that's a problem when the Raptors don't have a 2/3 that can create his own shot (alas, Siakam has gone backwards, from what many of us had hoped).

If there were a trade out there for FVV (and I am cold blooded) I'd have to consider it. Chicago is a great idea as it doesn;t hurt FVV"s feelings too much - some pkg for Levine?

I'm scared to start a post/poll with your idea, for fear of being ripped...

While I don't disagree with you on Fred we need to be a bit fair. Fred has never really had a shot at being the undisputed starting point guard on our team. He was always played alongside Lowry. When Lowry has been hurt, Fred impressed running the offense.

The fact is that Fred at 26 looks better than Kyle at 26. I don't think it's fair to judge Fred's playmaking abilities when he hasn't really been the primary ball handler. He's basically been acting as our shooting guard. And facts are facts, Fred was one of the best players in most advanced stat categories including RPM and win shares.

So while yes he is undersized I'd still like to see how he looks as the main guy running the team without sharing PG duties with Kyle in a smurf backcourt. If an a year or two Fred doesn't develop his playmaking, pick and roll, transition offense and seems stagnant I would be all in favor of trading him.

[Psubs]

Trade fvv and keep Kyle. You can rebuild w Kyle he's proving to be an incredible mentor. Look what he's done with Flynn. They also play well together. Bring him back and sell FVV to Chicago.

This needs its own post. I am curious how unpopular this take is but I'm onboard.

I like FVV, but he is an undersized, under-athletic SG. OR a small 3+d player that can play PG in a pinch.

FVV has never developed great PNR with centers like Lowry has. And that's a problem when the Raptors don't have a 2/3 that can create his own shot (alas, Siakam has gone backwards, from what many of us had hoped).

If there were a trade out there for FVV (and I am cold blooded) I'd have to consider it. Chicago is a great idea as it doesn;t hurt FVV"s feelings too much - some pkg for Levine?

I'm scared to start a post/poll with your idea, for fear of being ripped...

While I don't disagree with you on Fred we need to be a bit fair. Fred has never really had a shot at being the undisputed starting point guard on our team. He was always played alongside Lowry. When Lowry has been hurt, Fred impressed running the offense.

The fact is that Fred at 26 looks better than Kyle at 26. I don't think it's fair to judge Fred's playmaking abilities when he hasn't really been the primary ball handler. He's basically been acting as our shooting guard. And facts are facts, Fred was one of the best players in most advanced stat categories including RPM and win shares.

So while yes he is undersized I'd still like to see how he looks as the main guy running the team without sharing PG duties with Kyle in a smurf backcourt. If an a year or two Fred doesn't develop his playmaking, pick and roll, transition offense and seems stagnant I would be all in favor of trading him.

Agreed. When FVV and Lowry play together it's like they're both combo guards. Whereas when Lowry sits, Fred plays a more traditional PG role and the team wins.

[missionman]

Trade fvv and keep Kyle. You can rebuild w Kyle he's proving to be an incredible mentor. Look what he's done with Flynn. They also play well together. Bring him back and sell FVV to Chicago.

This needs its own post. I am curious how unpopular this take is but I'm onboard.

I like FVV, but he is an undersized, under-athletic SG. OR a small 3+d player that can play PG in a pinch.

FVV has never developed great PNR with centers like Lowry has. And that's a problem when the Raptors don't have a 2/3 that can create his own shot (alas, Siakam has gone backwards, from what many of us had hoped).

If there were a trade out there for FVV (and I am cold blooded) I'd have to consider it. Chicago is a great idea as it doesn;t hurt FVV"s feelings too much - some pkg for Levine?

I'm scared to start a post/poll with your idea, for fear of being ripped...

While I don't disagree with you on Fred we need to be a bit fair. Fred has never really had a shot at being the undisputed starting point guard on our team. He was always played alongside Lowry. When Lowry has been hurt, Fred impressed running the offense.

The fact is that Fred at 26 looks better than Kyle at 26. I don't think it's fair to judge Fred's playmaking abilities when he hasn't really been the primary ball handler. He's basically been acting as our shooting guard. And facts are facts, Fred was one of the best players in most advanced stat categories including RPM and win shares.

So while yes he is undersized I'd still like to see how he looks as the main guy running the team without sharing PG duties with Kyle in a smurf backcourt. If an a year or two Fred doesn't develop his playmaking, pick and roll, transition offense and seems stagnant I would be all in favor of trading him.

noted. I (fearfully) decided to create a new topic anyways, so feel free to re-express yourself.