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Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games

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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#21 » by Pooh_Jeter » Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:57 pm

The Raptors need to let OG grow organically and not force him into a starring role just because they lack one. Trying to force DeRozan, Siakam and even FVV into pseudo #1 options hasn't worked out and actually limited their development.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#22 » by refshateRaps » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:17 pm

Psubs wrote:
refshateRaps wrote:Freddy & Pascal got paid and then bounced off their ceiling downward

OG is playing great but Im highly doubtful he cant take the load ever

This team really needed an offensive threat that could pick the team up in droughts


Gary Trent Jr!!!


Possibly, he burst on the scene nice. But I'm not sold he is consistent enough yet or will be for a couple years.

Hope so tho. Cause even without Lowry I feel this team is one scorer away from competing at a high level. We consistently have the most hard working, skilled rotation players but no one to take the load of them scoring.

Pascal, Fred & OG can be monsters on any given night when not asked to carry the load.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#23 » by Psubs » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:25 pm

refshateRaps wrote:
Psubs wrote:
refshateRaps wrote:Freddy & Pascal got paid and then bounced off their ceiling downward

OG is playing great but Im highly doubtful he cant take the load ever

This team really needed an offensive threat that could pick the team up in droughts


Gary Trent Jr!!!


Possibly, he burst on the scene nice. But I'm not sold he is consistent enough yet or will be for a couple years.

Hope so tho. Cause even without Lowry I feel this team is one scorer away from competing at a high level. We consistently have the most hard working, skilled rotation players but no one to take the load of them scoring.

Pascal, Fred & OG can be monsters on any given night when not asked to carry the load.


I can see that Trent's shot is so smooth and balanced. Derozan is so technically sound with his moves and footwork but because of lack of range you're never really confident in the ball going in. So haven't really had a SG like Trent since Vince Carter; obviously less athletic.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#24 » by jimmy keys » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:28 pm

Dalek wrote:OG is super efficient but I don't think the role should expand. He is a long ways away from the Kawhi dribble pull-up or pumpfake at the rim to draw a foul. OG routinely gets blocked on drives like when Michael Porter Jr. got him. I just don't think he is a natural scorer so he should just be a third option.

Siakam focuses too much on drives because he can't shoot. I don't know if he is not getting enough reps in but his shot looks different every time he shoots on the perimeter. He is in such a tough place because physically and mentally he just seems so off at times.


Next year will determine his offensive upside. He needs to start putting up 20+ to keep pace with Kawhi at the same age.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#25 » by Par36 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:04 pm

He's legitimately the only player I'd say is untradeable.

Future DPOY/all NBA player.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#26 » by Johnny Bball » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:09 pm

Pooh_Jeter wrote:The Raptors need to let OG grow organically and not force him into a starring role just because they lack one. Trying to force DeRozan, Siakam and even FVV into pseudo #1 options hasn't worked out and actually limited their development.


Rhetoric. No example of how it's limited them and how they are worse for it. Even if you do something and fail you tend to learn from it. Well, most do.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#27 » by Potential » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:10 pm

He's literally turning into literally kawhi leonard.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#28 » by Danny1616 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:20 pm

Pooh_Jeter wrote:The Raptors need to let OG grow organically and not force him into a starring role just because they lack one. Trying to force DeRozan, Siakam and even FVV into pseudo #1 options hasn't worked out and actually limited their development.


So are you saying that giving a player many reps and chances to make mistakes won't help their progression?

Many guys that are superstar level players are thrust immediately into a starring role. I'd say more players are hampered by being stifled into a box and not allowed to grow.

In my opinion Derozan maximized his game as much as he could (barring a 3 point shot), he just didn't have the athletic tools that some of the other superstars had.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#29 » by LastNameEver » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:24 pm

Thats how its supposed to be in a tank
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#30 » by Pooh_Jeter » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:47 pm

Danny1616 wrote:
Pooh_Jeter wrote:The Raptors need to let OG grow organically and not force him into a starring role just because they lack one. Trying to force DeRozan, Siakam and even FVV into pseudo #1 options hasn't worked out and actually limited their development.


So are you saying that giving a player many reps and chances to make mistakes won't help their progression?

Many guys that are superstar level players are thrust immediately into a starring role. I'd say more players are hampered by being stifled into a box and not allowed to grow.

In my opinion Derozan maximized his game as much as he could (barring a 3 point shot), he just didn't have the athletic tools that some of the other superstars had.


He is getting a ton of extra reps and usage right now, but unless the team is planning on tanking again next year it doesn't make sense to go into the year with the idea of him being a guy with 24% usage rate if not more.

The difference here is that OG was/is a role player who through steady progression could potentially be on track to be something much more. A guy like Zion it's obvious, he has and should be the fulcrum of a team because he is insanely talented and can shoulder that load. OG is someone who has to work on his weaknesses, but be mindful he doesn't get away from his biggest strengths. He also has had issues with consistency and staying healthy.

DeRozan came in and was supposed to be more of a defensive guy and fill a specific roll until he could develop skill wise. When Bosh left he essentially got handed the keys. There were some positives with that for sure, but it also resulted in him giving up completely on his defensive responsibilities and as any sort of off ball threat. We saw the drawbacks with the "empty the clip" mentality and while his playmaking would eventually grow into a real plus, it was always a push and pull with him in terms of being that guy consistently.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#31 » by TorontoRapsFan » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:57 pm

Where is the poster I bet OG will look like a second option by seasons end with?
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#32 » by Danny1616 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:58 pm

Pooh_Jeter wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
Pooh_Jeter wrote:The Raptors need to let OG grow organically and not force him into a starring role just because they lack one. Trying to force DeRozan, Siakam and even FVV into pseudo #1 options hasn't worked out and actually limited their development.


So are you saying that giving a player many reps and chances to make mistakes won't help their progression?

Many guys that are superstar level players are thrust immediately into a starring role. I'd say more players are hampered by being stifled into a box and not allowed to grow.

In my opinion Derozan maximized his game as much as he could (barring a 3 point shot), he just didn't have the athletic tools that some of the other superstars had.


He is getting a ton of extra reps and usage right now, but unless the team is planning on tanking again next year it doesn't make sense to go into the year with the idea of him being a guy with 24% usage rate if not more.

The difference here is that OG was/is a role player who through steady progression could potentially be on track to be something much more. A guy like Zion it's obvious, he has and should be the fulcrum of a team because he is insanely talented and can shoulder that load. OG is someone who has to work on his weaknesses, but be mindful he doesn't get away from his biggest strengths. He also has had issues with consistency and staying healthy.

DeRozan came in and was supposed to be more of a defensive guy and fill a specific roll until he could develop skill wise. When Bosh left he essentially got handed the keys. There were some positives with that for sure, but it also resulted in him giving up completely on his defensive responsibilities and as any sort of off ball threat. We saw the drawbacks with the "empty the clip" mentality and while his playmaking would eventually grow into a real plus, it was always a push and pull with him in terms of being that guy consistently.


Agree with you on some points, but it's fairly clear that Derozan just isn't that great defensively. He doesn't have the lateral quickness to stay in front of quicker players, has average length and size, and doesn't have great anticipation either. Some guys just have a nose for the ball, know where to be (see Lowry, Butler, Gasol etc.), and are savvy with angles and stuff. Derozan never had that.

Defense is a lot about effort at the end of the day. I don't think him being thrust into a more offensive role early destroyed his defense. A guy like Paul George was thrust into an offensive role also very early in his career but was always a very good defender. Jimmy Butler was also thrust into an offensive star role quickly after Derrick Rose got hurt, but that didn't impact his defensive capabilities. Both Jimmy and George were not expected to become top tier scorers that quickly in their career either.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#33 » by Johnny Bball » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:07 pm

Pooh_Jeter wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
Pooh_Jeter wrote:The Raptors need to let OG grow organically and not force him into a starring role just because they lack one. Trying to force DeRozan, Siakam and even FVV into pseudo #1 options hasn't worked out and actually limited their development.


So are you saying that giving a player many reps and chances to make mistakes won't help their progression?

Many guys that are superstar level players are thrust immediately into a starring role. I'd say more players are hampered by being stifled into a box and not allowed to grow.

In my opinion Derozan maximized his game as much as he could (barring a 3 point shot), he just didn't have the athletic tools that some of the other superstars had.


He is getting a ton of extra reps and usage right now, but unless the team is planning on tanking again next year it doesn't make sense to go into the year with the idea of him being a guy with 24% usage rate if not more.

The difference here is that OG was/is a role player who through steady progression could potentially be on track to be something much more. A guy like Zion it's obvious, he has and should be the fulcrum of a team because he is insanely talented and can shoulder that load. OG is someone who has to work on his weaknesses, but be mindful he doesn't get away from his biggest strengths. He also has had issues with consistency and staying healthy.

DeRozan came in and was supposed to be more of a defensive guy and fill a specific roll until he could develop skill wise. When Bosh left he essentially got handed the keys. There were some positives with that for sure, but it also resulted in him giving up completely on his defensive responsibilities and as any sort of off ball threat. We saw the drawbacks with the "empty the clip" mentality and while his playmaking would eventually grow into a real plus, it was always a push and pull with him in terms of being that guy consistently.


There is never a point that OG was a role player unless your rating goes star player -> Role player. If you couldn't see potential for what he could be last year, or before, that's on you.

Derozan was never supposed to be more of a defensive guy. Wow.

Still had no real examples of how it inhibits development. Slow and steady wins the race is a good cliché though.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#34 » by antonaki1 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:15 pm

The acquisition of Gary Trent who OG seems to have taken a real liking to, with both often seen together on the sideline, has really helped influence OG. He doesn't want bro to think of him as just a really good defensive player, but wants to show he has offensive game too. Hopefully the two continue to influence each other taking their games to a whole nother level.

OG has always shown that offensive potential but it's only now that he's determined to take it to a consistent level. That fadeaway OG hit last night was killer and he has seldom ever attempted it.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#35 » by antonaki1 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:26 pm

Indeed wrote:
Psubs wrote:
EH15 wrote:He should be the 2nd option by now. That means more plays ran for him, more touches, more FGA. It's that simple.


Behind Flynn! :nod:


Flynn can't even create for himself. Except the first set play in the Denver game, you are not seeing him creating even we gave him the ball.

You must be watching a different Flynn then the one that the rest of us are watching who plays for the Raptors. For a rookie Flynn's ability to create has been very impressive.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#36 » by HeadtopChunes » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:26 pm

i like what they're doing, give him reps and let him get a feel for what he can and can't do, gonna have a long offseason to iron the kinks. Passing on the move is very exciting from him, if he can be what Andre Igoudala was with the ball (scoring+ playmaking) threat plus an actually good shooter, not to mention the defense. You have an extremely valuable player on your hands.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#37 » by Indeed » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:34 pm

antonaki1 wrote:
Indeed wrote:
Psubs wrote:
Behind Flynn! :nod:


Flynn can't even create for himself. Except the first set play in the Denver game, you are not seeing him creating even we gave him the ball.

You must be watching a different Flynn then the one that the rest of us are watching who plays for the Raptors. For a rookie Flynn's ability to create has been very impressive.


I have been watching all the Raptors games on league pass this year, only skipping free throw.
I am not sure what people are watching, and it was pretty clear that he can't create for himself the last game and ran into double teams, which ended up turnovers (twice at least). He can't create for himself, and since he is not yet a good shooter, teams are giving him that option. He was no match to Campazzo and Rivers last night (both of them are capable defenders).
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#38 » by Psubs » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:35 pm

antonaki1 wrote:The acquisition of Gary Trent who OG seems to have taken a real liking to, with both often seen together on the sideline, has really helped influence OG. He doesn't want bro to think of him as just a really good defensive player, but wants to show he has offensive game too. Hopefully the two continue to influence each other taking their games to a whole nother level.

OG has always shown that offensive potential but it's only now that he's determined to take it to a consistent level. That fadeaway OG hit last night was killer and he has seldom ever attempted it.


That would be amazing if Trent pushes OG offensively and OG pushes Trent defensively.

#synergy :beer: :party:
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#39 » by johanliebert » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:39 pm

If OG and siakam are your best players then next season will be another disappointment.
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Re: Non scorer OG has scored 20+ in 6 straight games 

Post#40 » by antonaki1 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:49 pm

O.K i guess we're talking about slightly different things. Flynn has created some really nice pic n rolls and set up a lot of shooters after driving the paint and his assist to turnover ratio has been excellent considering he's a rookie.

But he did almost takeover a game recently when he pored in 15 in just the fourth quarter in a tightly contested game against the Hawks and you don't do that with the game on the line if you don't have the ability to create your own shot. He had some really nice pullup jumpers in the paint as well as drives to the rim. Maybe he just needs to do it more consistently but he is a rookie and has a ton of growth ahead of him.
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