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Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower?

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Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#1 » by Zeno » Tue May 4, 2021 10:32 am

I was listening to the Dunc'on podcast and they mentioned that Trent is 57 minutes or 1 start away from reaching "starter's criteria" as far as his caphold is concerned. According to them that would raise his caphold to 4.7 million from 2.2 million. I am not familiar with the specifics of this but these guys know their stuff in general. With be interesting to see if we see a very limited amount of Trent going forward and if that only off the bench.
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#2 » by Ackshun » Tue May 4, 2021 12:04 pm

Shout out to Bluerap23 for calling it two weeks ago, before Trent "went down".

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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#3 » by fbalmeida » Tue May 4, 2021 12:07 pm

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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#4 » by Johnny Bball » Tue May 4, 2021 12:13 pm

I'm wondering exactly the same. You have to think Trent doesn't like this going into restricted free agency (assuming he's not actually hurt), and that at some point they either have to play him or it comes to a head. and If they don't, it kind of says to me they have already agreed on a contract amount. But why would Trent do that?

Nurse said he would be back Tuesday though. Today.
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#5 » by Econ101 » Tue May 4, 2021 12:24 pm

Trent seems fine with it. Likely when they made the trade, the Raptors agreed with his agent what they plan to offer, and the strategy of keeping a lower cap hold.
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#6 » by Indeed » Tue May 4, 2021 12:42 pm

Econ101 wrote:Trent seems fine with it. Likely when they made the trade, the Raptors agreed with his agent what they plan to offer, and the strategy of keeping a lower cap hold.


Probably Trent doesn't want to get major injury before getting paid.
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#7 » by mtcan » Tue May 4, 2021 12:49 pm

So they play him 10 minutes a game for the next 5 games then sit him for the last 2?
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#8 » by Zeno » Tue May 4, 2021 12:51 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:I'm wondering exactly the same. You have to think Trent doesn't like this going into restricted free agency (assuming he's not actually hurt), and that at some point they either have to play him or it comes to a head. and If they don't, it kind of says to me they have already agreed on a contract amount. But why would Trent do that?

Nurse said he would be back Tuesday though. Today.

He was listed as doubtful on the 8:30 injury report. So who knows.
As to your point, I’m sure for 2.5 million in space they wouldn’t bother to upset him. It might be part of an agreement where he got all those starts and a larger platform to show his skills with the understanding that he might be sat down later if it makes sense. I think he’s already kind of set his market.
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#9 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue May 4, 2021 12:54 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:I'm wondering exactly the same. You have to think Trent doesn't like this going into restricted free agency (assuming he's not actually hurt), and that at some point they either have to play him or it comes to a head. and If they don't, it kind of says to me they have already agreed on a contract amount. But why would Trent do that?

Nurse said he would be back Tuesday though. Today.


I don't think it would impact his FA earning potential. It's likely that the Raptors and Klutch have worked out a ballpark or floor number already.

That being said, I doubt the Raptors are doing this intentionally. They would have just shut him down.
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#10 » by Psubs » Tue May 4, 2021 1:21 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:I'm wondering exactly the same. You have to think Trent doesn't like this going into restricted free agency (assuming he's not actually hurt), and that at some point they either have to play him or it comes to a head. and If they don't, it kind of says to me they have already agreed on a contract amount. But why would Trent do that?

Nurse said he would be back Tuesday though. Today.


I don't think it would impact his FA earning potential. It's likely that the Raptors and Klutch have worked out a ballpark or floor number already.

That being said, I doubt the Raptors are doing this intentionally. They would have just shut him down.


Also a time frame when to be signed like the 2nd week of Free Agency. Like please don't sign an offer sheet in the 1st week so we can try and use the cap space for another big free agent 1st.
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#11 » by Johnny Bball » Tue May 4, 2021 1:30 pm

mtcan wrote:So they play him 10 minutes a game for the next 5 games then sit him for the last 2?


This makes the most sense tbh.
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#12 » by Johnny Bball » Tue May 4, 2021 1:32 pm

Psubs wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:I'm wondering exactly the same. You have to think Trent doesn't like this going into restricted free agency (assuming he's not actually hurt), and that at some point they either have to play him or it comes to a head. and If they don't, it kind of says to me they have already agreed on a contract amount. But why would Trent do that?

Nurse said he would be back Tuesday though. Today.


I don't think it would impact his FA earning potential. It's likely that the Raptors and Klutch have worked out a ballpark or floor number already.

That being said, I doubt the Raptors are doing this intentionally. They would have just shut him down.


Also a time frame when to be signed like the 2nd week of Free Agency. Like please don't sign an offer sheet in the 1st week so we can try and use the cap space for another big free agent 1st.


That's for sure happening, but you still can set the deal up on a handshake and file it later. I think that's typically how it's done. And nobody goes back on the handshake, except Deandre Jordan.
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#13 » by Anticon » Tue May 4, 2021 1:40 pm

There has to be a better system than cap holds and bird rights.

This just seems totally ridiculous.
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#14 » by PhilBlackson » Tue May 4, 2021 1:56 pm

Econ101 wrote:Trent seems fine with it. Likely when they made the trade, the Raptors agreed with his agent what they plan to offer, and the strategy of keeping a lower cap hold.


To me this seems most likely...

He seems just fine n dandy smiling and cheering his teammates on the bench. Not to mention a whole Open Gym ep where he says he feels like joining us is destiny (notice Kawhi never so much had an episode nor caught him saying anything about his future with us), seen him on Tim & Sid raving about the franchise and how he wanted to be apart of that so every indication imo is its already set.

I understand that the supposed upside to trading Norm was that he was a UFA and Gary is a RFA but how would the Raps know that once in our system Gary wouldn't have some team intrigued that he's worth a similar dollar value to Norm then we're paying all the same. I think this was kinda like the HOU/OKC trade where it was all discussed ahead at least a rough structure of their plans n now one is in place so Gary is just riding along til next season looking forward to a breakout year (just watch next season!).
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#15 » by tecumseh18 » Tue May 4, 2021 1:57 pm

The amount of Trent's cap hold is only relevant if the Raps plan to use their cap space. But doing so means renouncing Kyle's massive cap hold and the possibility of a sign and trade and all options/guarantees on other players except probably Boucher. Doing that and minimizing Trent's cap hold through service time manipulation gives them the flexibility to spend around 25 mill.

But - Raps can never attract free agents, so why gut the team like that? The bench has been an up and down affair this season, but it would be hard to simply cut loose Bembry, Watson and Watanabe. I think the most logical thing is to re-sign everybody, including Lowry, whether to stay or to trade, picking up a C with the MLE, and resign Birch with the Bi-annual exception (3.8 mill)

Birch is obviously a priority signing, if only on the "bird in the hand" principle. But if Birch requires more than 3.8 mill, then Raps will either have to use part or all of the MLE to sign him, or be a cap space team. Then they could use the Room exception of $5 mill. But if Birch requires more than $5 mill, then it will either have to be out of cap space (so no Kyle) or the MLE.

My often-expressed hope is that the MLE can be used to bring in a serviceable C like Olynyk or Theis, or Serge. So I'd rather not sign Khem with that. Or maybe Khem and Gasol can split the MLE. As Gasol showed last night, he's still useful as a situational C against other dreadnought Cs.
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#16 » by DelAbbot » Tue May 4, 2021 2:15 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:The amount of Trent's cap hold is only relevant if the Raps plan to use their cap space. But doing so means renouncing Kyle's massive cap hold and the possibility of a sign and trade and all options/guarantees on other players except probably Boucher. Doing that and minimizing Trent's cap hold through service time manipulation gives them the flexibility to spend around 25 mill.

But - Raps can never attract free agents, so why gut the team like that? The bench has been an up and down affair this season, but it would be hard to simply cut loose Bembry, Watson and Watanabe. I think the most logical thing is to re-sign everybody, including Lowry, whether to stay or to trade, picking up a C with the MLE, and resign Birch with the Bi-annual exception (3.8 mill)

Birch is obviously a priority signing, if only on the "bird in the hand" principle. But if Birch requires more than 3.8 mill, then Raps will either have to use part or all of the MLE to sign him, or be a cap space team. Then they could use the Room exception of $5 mill. But if Birch requires more than $5 mill, then it will either have to be out of cap space (so no Kyle) or the MLE.

My often-expressed hope is that the MLE can be used to bring in a serviceable C like Olynyk or Theis, or Serge. So I'd rather not sign Khem with that. Maybe Khem and Gasol can split the MLE.


If we keep playing Birch at 30min+, he is going to cost more than 5M. Lowry is making sure of that by making Birch look like Ibaka out there.

So are we all in agreement that Lowry's cap hold is definitely renounced? Otherwise all the moves last offseason, plus this Trent service manipulation, are for nothing. The moment Lowry's cap hold is renounced, we will have effectively lost another asset for nothing - re-signing Lowry with cap space would not make up for it.

Speaking of Ibaka: he has not played since March 14. I don't think either Raptors nor Ibaka wants a re-union next season.
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#17 » by Mikistan » Tue May 4, 2021 2:39 pm

DelAbbot wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:The amount of Trent's cap hold is only relevant if the Raps plan to use their cap space. But doing so means renouncing Kyle's massive cap hold and the possibility of a sign and trade and all options/guarantees on other players except probably Boucher. Doing that and minimizing Trent's cap hold through service time manipulation gives them the flexibility to spend around 25 mill.

But - Raps can never attract free agents, so why gut the team like that? The bench has been an up and down affair this season, but it would be hard to simply cut loose Bembry, Watson and Watanabe. I think the most logical thing is to re-sign everybody, including Lowry, whether to stay or to trade, picking up a C with the MLE, and resign Birch with the Bi-annual exception (3.8 mill)

Birch is obviously a priority signing, if only on the "bird in the hand" principle. But if Birch requires more than 3.8 mill, then Raps will either have to use part or all of the MLE to sign him, or be a cap space team. Then they could use the Room exception of $5 mill. But if Birch requires more than $5 mill, then it will either have to be out of cap space (so no Kyle) or the MLE.

My often-expressed hope is that the MLE can be used to bring in a serviceable C like Olynyk or Theis, or Serge. So I'd rather not sign Khem with that. Maybe Khem and Gasol can split the MLE.


If we keep playing Birch at 30min+, he is going to cost more than 5M. Lowry is making sure of that by making Birch look like Ibaka out there.

So are we all in agreement that Lowry's cap hold is definitely renounced? Otherwise all the moves last offseason, plus this Trent service manipulation, are for nothing. The moment Lowry's cap hold is renounced, we will have effectively lost another asset for nothing - re-signing Lowry with cap space would not make up for it.

Speaking of Ibaka: he has not played since March 14. I don't think either Raptors nor Ibaka wants a re-union next season.

Meh it's only losing assets if what you could have gotten back in a poo poo platter actually helped. I'd much rather the team take its own swings for FA singing and miss than get some garbage contracts in a Lowry trade that just wastes time
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#18 » by Danny1616 » Tue May 4, 2021 3:21 pm

My guess is Raptors management, Trent and his agent probably have already tentatively agreed to a deal.
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#19 » by MadDogSHWA » Tue May 4, 2021 3:26 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:I'm wondering exactly the same. You have to think Trent doesn't like this going into restricted free agency (assuming he's not actually hurt), and that at some point they either have to play him or it comes to a head. and If they don't, it kind of says to me they have already agreed on a contract amount. But why would Trent do that?

Nurse said he would be back Tuesday though. Today.


I agree and I suspect the contract was solidified before the trade went through.

Why would Bury Trent do that? I'm guessing minutes, touches and he's guaranteed a starting spot at the 2. He knew in portland he was just filling in as a stater.
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Re: Will Trent be held out to keep his caphold/qualifying offer lower? 

Post#20 » by DelAbbot » Tue May 4, 2021 3:32 pm

MadDogSHWA wrote:Why would Bury Trent do that? I'm guessing minutes, touches and he's guaranteed a starting spot at the 2. He knew in portland he was just filling in as a stater.


That nickname is going to haunt us at some point.

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