Draft Thread Part 4

[tecumseh18]

At least he could learn the PNR and work on his handle but I don't see him learning to put 6 inches of length on his arms so he can be Donovan

I think the last name, number and skin tone got people associating the wrong things.

This was probably Davion's plan all along. One of these GMs is looking at Donovan performing in the playoffs right now and the idea of taking Davion to high based off that association is taking root in his brain.

So according to you it's last name, skin color the reason why people are comparing him to Donovan Mitchell...has nothing to do with his quick first step, ability to stop at dime, change direction, ability to get to the rim with ease..

By the way they said the same thing about Donovan Mitchell coming out of college..he is to small, not skilled enough, etc .. that is why he was picked #13 . But today if that draft was redone, the only player that has case getting picked ahead of him is Jayson Tatum ...

Donovan is "undersized " in height but he has a 6'10 wingspan. Davion does not possess that. Donovan is also freaky athletic which allows him finish amongst NBA size and athleticism. Davion is quick, but he does not have Donovan's athleticism.

I don't see that comparison at all. He's like a Marcus Smart.

And even Smart has a 6' 9.25" wingspan.

If Davion is deemed to be the pick, representing BPA, then Fred is gone. I'm reasonably certain that Nurse wants to move away from the two small guard lineup.

Which raises the question, what could we get for Fred? The holes to fill are at wing and C.

[Childs]

Watch on YouTube

[tdotrep2]

drake needs to be working lebron to come to canada

[Indeed]

So according to you it's last name, skin color the reason why people are comparing him to Donovan Mitchell...has nothing to do with his quick first step, ability to stop at dime, change direction, ability to get to the rim with ease..

By the way they said the same thing about Donovan Mitchell coming out of college..he is to small, not skilled enough, etc .. that is why he was picked #13 . But today if that draft was redone, the only player that has case getting picked ahead of him is Jayson Tatum ...

Donovan is "undersized " in height but he has a 6'10 wingspan. Davion does not possess that. Donovan is also freaky athletic which allows him finish amongst NBA size and athleticism. Davion is quick, but he does not have Donovan's athleticism.

I don't see that comparison at all. He's like a Marcus Smart.

And even Smart has a 6' 9.25" wingspan.

If Davion is deemed to be the pick, representing BPA, then Fred is gone. I'm reasonably certain that Nurse wants to move away from the two small guard lineup.

Which raises the question, what could we get for Fred? The holes to fill are at wing and C.

The offense is nothing like Smart though, Davion is able to create his shot (if his shot is real), so I don't get how you compare with someone who has little offense.

As for two small guard lineup, I am not sure you find a better two way player at SG. Perhaps you can provide some Net Rating and prove that.

[niQ]

Just saw Jokic attempt a Sengun move. He been watching tape.

[WuTang_OG]

So according to you it's last name, skin color the reason why people are comparing him to Donovan Mitchell...has nothing to do with his quick first step, ability to stop at dime, change direction, ability to get to the rim with ease..

By the way they said the same thing about Donovan Mitchell coming out of college..he is to small, not skilled enough, etc .. that is why he was picked #13 . But today if that draft was redone, the only player that has case getting picked ahead of him is Jayson Tatum ...

Donovan is "undersized " in height but he has a 6'10 wingspan. Davion does not possess that. Donovan is also freaky athletic which allows him finish amongst NBA size and athleticism. Davion is quick, but he does not have Donovan's athleticism.

I don't see that comparison at all. He's like a Marcus Smart.

And even Smart has a 6' 9.25" wingspan.

If Davion is deemed to be the pick, representing BPA, then Fred is gone. I'm reasonably certain that Nurse wants to move away from the two small guard lineup.

Which raises the question, what could we get for Fred? The holes to fill are at wing and C.

It wont happen... yet. They’ll give Fvv The keys to run the team and see how it shakes up. If they pick davion, theyll play them both together and see. We cant moce fvv with lowry bouncing shortly (even if he does stay one more year)

[Steelo Green]

Fred and Davion would be a 5’11 PG and SG.

He’s neither BPA or makes sense.

[biglottoballs]

Trading down for 2 picks in the late teens would be better to make the most out of the Raptors draft scouting.

Poeltl and 14th for Boucher and 7th wouldn't be bad either if the Raptors intended target will be expected to drop. The target is either Josh Giddey or Ayo Dosunmo.

Poeltl
Siakam
OG
Giddey
Fred

Does that make the playoffs next season?

[Indeed]

I think he may go higher. He looks like Boucher with a handle.

Watch on YouTube

[OAKLEY_2]

Just saw Jokic attempt a Sengun move. He been watching tape.

This just in Raptors fans ready to crown 18 year old as LeBron's generational talent replacement.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Long Wingspan for guards is good for playing passing lanes and deflections. But what makes Davion Mitchell elite and awarded Defensive Player of the Year is his lateral quickness/foot speed. In the ESPN defensive film session, he explains he matches offensive player step for step and stopping on the dime. He stays in front of his man stopping penetrations.

Defense is not all size and wingspan, lateral quickness is just as important

I think it's increasingly less important as the league turns into more of a 3PT shooting contest. Teams create movement with high screens or in transition and then take the first available open 3. Perimeter defense in the "lockdown" sense doesn't really exist anymore. The big skills are "turnovers/deflections," fighting over screens and staying glued to shooters to encourage shot suppression.

Anyway, I have nothing against Mitchell's defensive ability. He should be an asset to any team that drafts him, I just think it's not what teams should be looking for in the lottery. It's way down the line. It's more important to be smart and willing to defend.

[Indeed]

Long Wingspan for guards is good for playing passing lanes and deflections. But what makes Davion Mitchell elite and awarded Defensive Player of the Year is his lateral quickness/foot speed. In the ESPN defensive film session, he explains he matches offensive player step for step and stopping on the dime. He stays in front of his man stopping penetrations.

Defense is not all size and wingspan, lateral quickness is just as important

I think it's increasingly less important as the league turns into more of a 3PT shooting contest. Teams create movement with high screens or in transition and then take the first available open 3. Perimeter defense in the "lockdown" sense doesn't really exist anymore. The big skills are "turnovers/deflections," fighting over screens and staying glued to shooters to encourage shot suppression.

Anyway, I have nothing against Mitchell's defensive ability. He should be an asset to any team that drafts him, I just think it's not what teams should be looking for in the lottery. It's way down the line. It's more important to be smart and willing to defend.

Lockdown still exist when playing Box And 1. However, perimeter is more about quickness and footwork. Scoring in the paint will require wingspan and vertical.

Meanwhile, as said above perimeter is about quickness, Davion calling card is his elite quickness (stop and accelerate at elite level), so I think he will be in the lottery. Team drafting him is not about his defense, but his offense, someone who already capable of creating his own shot off the dribble (other prospects are labelled as "potential" to create their own shot).

[OAKLEY_2]

Trading down for 2 picks in the late teens would be better to make the most out of the Raptors draft scouting.

Poeltl and 14th for Boucher and 7th wouldn't be bad either if the Raptors intended target will be expected to drop. The target is either Josh Giddey or Ayo Dosunmo.

Poeltl
Siakam
OG
Giddey
Fred

Does that make the playoffs next season?

Would love to get Poetl back but... When Lowry goes Boucher can actually replace scoring. A healthy Paskal/Jak/OG is a nice home grown front court but health will be vital for that to work. I am certain Nurse has a formed opinion on Poetl and if he brings zero spacing his rim protection has to be off the charts. Poetl by rights should be a facilitator and have high assist numbers. Those numbers? .02 to 1.9 over his career which is better than Boucher. So the brass of both teams want them to initiate and finish but have next to zero ball handling. Boucher at least should be able to be trusted to put the ball on the floor.

Poetl is better staying in the Pop's school as they have him getting 9 points and 8 boards and 3 to 4 of those are offensive boards and at the other end 2 blocks per game. He's the Big Little Engine that Could. As part of the trade of champions it is a bad look for SA to send him back esp when he more than earns his keep.

[OAKLEY_2]

Long Wingspan for guards is good for playing passing lanes and deflections. But what makes Davion Mitchell elite and awarded Defensive Player of the Year is his lateral quickness/foot speed. In the ESPN defensive film session, he explains he matches offensive player step for step and stopping on the dime. He stays in front of his man stopping penetrations.

Defense is not all size and wingspan, lateral quickness is just as important

I think it's increasingly less important as the league turns into more of a 3PT shooting contest. Teams create movement with high screens or in transition and then take the first available open 3. Perimeter defense in the "lockdown" sense doesn't really exist anymore. The big skills are "turnovers/deflections," fighting over screens and staying glued to shooters to encourage shot suppression.

Anyway, I have nothing against Mitchell's defensive ability. He should be an asset to any team that drafts him, I just think it's not what teams should be looking for in the lottery. It's way down the line. It's more important to be smart and willing to defend.

Lockdown still exist when playing Box And 1. However, perimeter is more about quickness and footwork. Scoring in the paint will require wingspan and vertical.

Meanwhile, as said above perimeter is about quickness, Davion calling card is his elite quickness (stop and accelerate at elite level), so I think he will be in the lottery. Team drafting him is not about his defense, but his offense, someone who already capable of creating his own shot off the dribble (other prospects are labelled as "potential" to create their own shot).

Outside the top 5 who has a better motor than Mitchell? Who has better defense? Who plays better off ball? Who has had his college development arc as in 3 years of college and in his case one of four years being a sit and learn based on transfer rules. He is smallish. He is oldish. But as BPA pretty sure at 7/8 he is the best at that spot.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Long Wingspan for guards is good for playing passing lanes and deflections. But what makes Davion Mitchell elite and awarded Defensive Player of the Year is his lateral quickness/foot speed. In the ESPN defensive film session, he explains he matches offensive player step for step and stopping on the dime. He stays in front of his man stopping penetrations.

Defense is not all size and wingspan, lateral quickness is just as important

I think it's increasingly less important as the league turns into more of a 3PT shooting contest. Teams create movement with high screens or in transition and then take the first available open 3. Perimeter defense in the "lockdown" sense doesn't really exist anymore. The big skills are "turnovers/deflections," fighting over screens and staying glued to shooters to encourage shot suppression.

Anyway, I have nothing against Mitchell's defensive ability. He should be an asset to any team that drafts him, I just think it's not what teams should be looking for in the lottery. It's way down the line. It's more important to be smart and willing to defend.

Lockdown still exist when playing Box And 1. However, perimeter is more about quickness and footwork. Scoring in the paint will require wingspan and vertical.

Meanwhile, as said above perimeter is about quickness, Davion calling card is his elite quickness (stop and accelerate at elite level), so I think he will be in the lottery. Team drafting him is not about his defense, but his offense, someone who already capable of creating his own shot off the dribble (other prospects are labelled as "potential" to create their own shot).

No. There's no individual "stopping" someone from getting to their spots anymore. This has been out of the league for a long time at the point guard position, and it's moving its way up to the wing. We're now seeing guys like Kawhi, Paul George, Marcus Morris, Ben Simmons need help on the perimeter, because they can't prevent dribble penetration and players are good enough to hit 30 foot stepback 3s now. That's just going to increase until there's a rule change.

There's obviously some 3 zone scorers still where fast feet (esp stop/start) and long arms can be helpful, but for the most part teams are discouraging midrange shots. If you get torched you can pretty much hand it off to the rotating big.

As for Mitchell, he hasn't produced enough offense for teams to draft him as an offensive player in the lottery. So, if that's what they're doing, they're ignoring better options and taking a massive risk with an overage late bloomer.

[Indeed]

I think it's increasingly less important as the league turns into more of a 3PT shooting contest. Teams create movement with high screens or in transition and then take the first available open 3. Perimeter defense in the "lockdown" sense doesn't really exist anymore. The big skills are "turnovers/deflections," fighting over screens and staying glued to shooters to encourage shot suppression.

Anyway, I have nothing against Mitchell's defensive ability. He should be an asset to any team that drafts him, I just think it's not what teams should be looking for in the lottery. It's way down the line. It's more important to be smart and willing to defend.

Lockdown still exist when playing Box And 1. However, perimeter is more about quickness and footwork. Scoring in the paint will require wingspan and vertical.

Meanwhile, as said above perimeter is about quickness, Davion calling card is his elite quickness (stop and accelerate at elite level), so I think he will be in the lottery. Team drafting him is not about his defense, but his offense, someone who already capable of creating his own shot off the dribble (other prospects are labelled as "potential" to create their own shot).

No. There's no individual "stopping" someone from getting to their spots anymore. This has been out of the league for a long time at the point guard position, and it's moving its way up to the wing. We're now seeing guys like Kawhi, Paul George, Marcus Morris, Ben Simmons need help on the perimeter, because they can't prevent dribble penetration and players are good enough to hit 30 foot stepback 3s now. That's just going to increase until there's a rule change.

There's obviously some 3 zone scorers still where fast feet (esp stop/start) and long arms can be helpful, but for the most part teams are discouraging midrange shots. If you get torched you can pretty much hand it off to the rotating big.

As for Mitchell, he hasn't produced enough offense for teams to draft him as an offensive player in the lottery. So, if that's what they're doing, they're ignoring better options and taking a massive risk with an overage late bloomer.

Box And 1 is out of the league now? Locking down someone and not allowing them to get the ball have been our strategy, no? There are more than just lock down on ball, there are also lock down off ball (not even providing help defense).

As for hand it to the rotating big, this works if opponent has a non-stretch bigs. The trend seems to be 5-out (Milwaukee, Dallas, Golden States, Indiana, Denver, Philadelphia, etc.), of course, there are opposite (Utah, etc.)

Define "not produced enough offense", are you referring to raw stats? I think this is the reason many draft board has him based on workout. If he can prove to score against other guards (eg. Moody), teams may draft him ahead of some of the players in the lottery.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Box And 1 is out of the league now? Locking down someone and not allowing them to get the ball have been our strategy, no? There are more than just lock down on ball, there are also lock down off ball (not even providing help defense).

It's rarely employed and by very few teams. Is that what you think a team should draft for? And is Fred VanVleet elite laterally? This isn't even worth discussing.

As for hand it to the rotating big, this works if opponent has a non-stretch bigs. The trend seems to be 5-out (Milwaukee, Dallas, Golden States, Indiana, Denver, Philadelphia, etc.), of course, there are opposite (Utah, etc.)

Teams rarely pull-off 5 out. Stretch bigs just don't shoot well enough and can't make plays off closeouts. But again, a high screen is going to create space easily. That's why it's more important to be able to fight around screens. That's iq, toughness and strength.

Define "not produced enough offense", are you referring to raw stats? I think this is the reason many draft board has him ranked after workout. If he can prove to score against other guards (eg. Moody), teams may draft him ahead of some of the players in the lottery.

Low scoring, low "high scoring" games, low FTr. His statistical profile is closer to a back-up guard. I don't see why it would matter if he scores against Moody in a workout. Moody's 18. This is a mid lotto pick. You need to project value over several years, because the opportunity for landing a core player is greater.

[Indeed]

Trading down for 2 picks in the late teens would be better to make the most out of the Raptors draft scouting.

Poeltl and 14th for Boucher and 7th wouldn't be bad either if the Raptors intended target will be expected to drop. The target is either Josh Giddey or Ayo Dosunmo.

Poeltl
Siakam
OG
Giddey
Fred

Does that make the playoffs next season?

Would love to get Poetl back but... When Lowry goes Boucher can actually replace scoring. A healthy Paskal/Jak/OG is a nice home grown front court but health will be vital for that to work. I am certain Nurse has a formed opinion on Poetl and if he brings zero spacing his rim protection has to be off the charts. Poetl by rights should be a facilitator and have high assist numbers. Those numbers? .02 to 1.9 over his career which is better than Boucher. So the brass of both teams want them to initiate and finish but have next to zero ball handling. Boucher at least should be able to be trusted to put the ball on the floor.

Poetl is better staying in the Pop's school as they have him getting 9 points and 8 boards and 3 to 4 of those are offensive boards and at the other end 2 blocks per game. He's the Big Little Engine that Could. As part of the trade of champions it is a bad look for SA to send him back esp when he more than earns his keep.

I just don't think Poeltl has more value than Boucher. You can find many defensive big, but not often you find a 3+D big. I think both of them worth a late 1st or top 2nd, but those teams want to compete may rather take on them instead of taking 3 years to develop (with risk).

With Boucher being an expiring next year, and we may not able to afford him, perhaps it is good to get some asset back, but not going to trade down for someone in similar value. I prefer to trade him for a bad contract like Steven Adams, and ask for their 1st, which may allow us to draft for a position of need (eg. Wagner).

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Watching the Keon Johnson tape I can see why he’s been mocked high. He’s incredibly quick, has insane hops, guards amazingly well and is a willing and predatory scorer.

He isn’t a reliable shooter at all watching this film session but he does hunt shots both from 3 (even though he bricks a lot now) and from attacking the rim.

I can see a team thinking if they improve his jumper he is going to be elite. Lots of ifs though so he may end up another athlete that is not good enough of a basketball player

[Syd-TK3]

I think he may go higher. He looks like Boucher with a handle.

Watch on YouTube

My favourite target for our 2nds but he definitely gonna keep rising. Only 19 with alot of potential. Almost Thon maker like, difference is he was doing it in college instead of against tiny highschool kids