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Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired?

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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#81 » by kalel123 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:45 pm

Tofubeque wrote:
kalel123 wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:Vince is going to the hall of fame and he will be mostly remembered as a Raptor, which is why there will be a strong push to retire his number. If Vince went on to win a title in NJ, the narrative changes, but he spent the rest of his career as a journeyman with no real connection to another city.


The problem is what did he actually do for the Raptors that's worthy of jersey retirement? All of the good he did for the Raptors, peaking at dunk contest and second round exit, don't really amount to much when all's said and done and all of it's cancelled out by the bad even if you believe the revisionist history. What happened still happened.


Dominique Wilkins peaked at the dunk contest and 2nd round exits, there was zero question the Hawks would retire his jersey. Granted he had a longer tenure than Vince, but cultural impact matters. They've also retired Maravich and Mutombo's jerseys after only 4-5 year stints with them, and that's 2 of the 5 player numbers retired from 50+ years in Atlanta.

A lot of other stuff people say he did, even if you agree with them (and I don't), is actually an argument for him to be considered for Canadian Basketball Hall of Fame but not for his jersey to be retired as a Raptor because those things mean nothing to this team.

Also the biggest thing with him going to HOF will be that he fizzled out as a journey man then lasted as long as he did with so many other teams. So again, that's not really Raptors related.

Just because we have shorter history than most teams in the league doesn't mean we should retire just anyone's jersey.


Canadian Basketball means nothing to the Raptors? Look, I get thinking the red and white "Canada's team" branding ushered in during Colangelo's time is tacky, but our head coach is the head coach of Canada Basketball for a reason. We've had several Canadians develop on the team just in the past couple years, and it's probably only a matter of time before one of the several Canadian stars in the league, directly influenced by Vince, ends up in a Raptors jersey.

Anyway nobody is saying we should retire "just anyone's" jersey. IMO it should be Lowry, then Vince, then that's it.


So just because another team does something, we should just blindly follow? Besides, Wilkins played almost his entire career except the tail end with Hakws and was simply better than Vince Carter throughout his playing days. Mutombo also was named Defensive Player of the year 3 or 4 times with the Hawks alone. And none of 'em quit on his way out.

I don't believe in this influence Vince Carter supposedly had on Canadian basketball but even if one were to believe it, what has that exactly done for the Raptors? NOTHING. The fans he brought in all left once he quit and made this team a laughing stock. The fans that are still here would've been here regardless because Raptors play in Toronto, Canada not because Vince Carter once played here. Most of the casual fans today are here because of Raptors recent playoff success. Again, nothing to do with Vince Carter.

We've had several Canadians develop on the team just in the past couple of years because Raptors play in Canada, nothing to do with Vince Carter. We have Nick Nurse also coaching Team Canada because Raptors play in Canada and he helped us win a championship, which again has nothing to do with Vince Carter. None of the Canadian stars being drafted from here on out will not have been directly influenced by Vince Carter because they would've been born on the tail end of Carter's tenure here and wouldn't even remember seeing him live in Raptors jersey. And as things currently stand, none of the Canadian stars currently in the league are anywhere near coming here and even if they come, it'll be because Raptors are in Canada not because of anything to do with Vince Carter. Which is why the supposed cultural impact means nothing to the Raptors. And even if they did, him quitting also happened and that and its impact on the team is real and that cancels out any good that he supposedly did.
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#82 » by refshateRaps » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:45 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:What I'd do:

Lowry - Statue and Banner
Masai - Banner
Kawhi - Statue (of the shot)
Vince - Statue (of the dunk)
DeMar - Honor him somehow, but no banner.
Bosh - Tribute during commercial break.


Makes sense
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#83 » by dTox » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:18 pm

I'm not in love with retiring any of them to be honest with you, but if you were to stick a gun to my head: VC, Kawhi.
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#84 » by OakleyDokely » Wed Jun 9, 2021 7:17 pm

You could also do something like what the Jays do with the ring of honor. Names and numbers are honored around the stadium, but they aren't retired. I think the Jays have only retired Halladay and Alomar but they honor Joe Carter, Tony Fernandez etc
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#85 » by Klaw22 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:16 am

DeRozan, Leonard, Bosh, Carter
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#86 » by raptorforlife88 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:40 pm

Demar is going to likely wind up in the HOF. He's headed towards finishing his career with around 22000 points if he's even kind of maintaining his current pace and could be in the top 40 all time. There's no one in that range who hasn't made the Hall. It's surprising in a way but he's been amazingly consistent.

He will have played the bulk of his career in Toronto and was a massive part of the biggest stretch of success in Raptors history. He has the raw number totals as well. And he loved the city and wanted to be here unlike VC.

He's gonna have his number retired and he will deserve it. If he's likely going to be good enough for the HOF he's good enough for the Raptors to retire him.

Beyond that, maybe we'll see VC eventually get it. He's obviously a HOFer overall, but he doesn't have the time Demar spent here. No for Kawhi or Bosh. One season can't get that honour no matter how good the season was.

Bosh just wasn't good enough to be considered.
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#87 » by ruckus » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:22 pm

To be honest, I'd rather see honours given to guys like Alvin Williams, Jose Calderon and MoPete. Guys that always had good things to say about the city and franchise and always gave their all on the court. Yeah, they weren't as talented as Vince, Bosh and Kawhi but these were the guys that carried the franchise during the tough times. I also might put Amir Johnson and JYD in that group as well.
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#88 » by macketeer » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:26 pm

None...

But if i have to...it would have to be Demar. He contributed a lot to the positive mentality of this team, never sulked and is the only one that left not under his own terms.

The rest can GTFO.
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#89 » by macketeer » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:35 pm

refshateRaps wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:What I'd do:

Lowry - Statue and Banner
Masai - Banner
Kawhi - Statue (of the shot)
Vince - Statue (of the dunk)
DeMar - Honor him somehow, but no banner.
Bosh - Tribute during commercial break.


Makes sense


Demar....statue (fadeaway 2 pointer from 20 feet out)
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#90 » by Kingsway_fan » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:11 pm

raptorforlife88 wrote:Demar is going to likely wind up in the HOF. He's headed towards finishing his career with around 22000 points if he's even kind of maintaining his current pace and could be in the top 40 all time. There's no one in that range who hasn't made the Hall. It's surprising in a way but he's been amazingly consistent.

He will have played the bulk of his career in Toronto and was a massive part of the biggest stretch of success in Raptors history. He has the raw number totals as well. And he loved the city and wanted to be here unlike VC.

He's gonna have his number retired and he will deserve it. If he's likely going to be good enough for the HOF he's good enough for the Raptors to retire him.

Beyond that, maybe we'll see VC eventually get it. He's obviously a HOFer overall, but he doesn't have the time Demar spent here. No for Kawhi or Bosh. Oneoh remind me again season can't get that honour no matter how good the season was.

Bosh just wasn't good enough to be considered.


Demar.. lol doubt it... oh, remind me again how many first or second team allstar teams he made?....

Above average player..not an allstar., and definitely not HOF... below average playoff performer. Who consistently choked when playoffs came....
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#91 » by OakleyDokely » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:14 pm

raptorforlife88 wrote:Demar is going to likely wind up in the HOF. He's headed towards finishing his career with around 22000 points if he's even kind of maintaining his current pace and could be in the top 40 all time. There's no one in that range who hasn't made the Hall. It's surprising in a way but he's been amazingly consistent.

He will have played the bulk of his career in Toronto and was a massive part of the biggest stretch of success in Raptors history. He has the raw number totals as well. And he loved the city and wanted to be here unlike VC.

He's gonna have his number retired and he will deserve it. If he's likely going to be good enough for the HOF he's good enough for the Raptors to retire him.

Beyond that, maybe we'll see VC eventually get it. He's obviously a HOFer overall, but he doesn't have the time Demar spent here. No for Kawhi or Bosh. One season can't get that honour no matter how good the season was.

Bosh just wasn't good enough to be considered.
I think the odds of DD making the hall of fame are pretty long.

Basketball reference currently gives him a 6% chance.

In comparison Lowry is at 85% and Vince at 94%
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#92 » by JJ From Deep » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:39 pm

Parataxis wrote:None of them. But if I had to choose

Demar, Vince, Bosh, Kawhi.

Loyalty matters, tenure matters.

I would argue that efficiency matters. Kawhi came here, had a star-calibre year. Won a championship. He did in one season what none of those guys could do in 10x that time. To me, that's way more commendable than a longer tenure resulting in year after year of failed seasons.

But to answer the thread. Only one guy from the list deserves his jersey retired: Kawhi.
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#93 » by raptorforlife88 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:43 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:
I think the odds of DD making the hall of fame are pretty long.

Basketball reference currently gives him a 6% chance.

In comparison Lowry is at 85% and Vince at 94%


I think ability wise he'd be borderline. And basketball reference does not like him.

But he's aged well. His offense has only gotten more efficient and he's not reliant on athleticism to score. He's 31, and arguably put up his most efficient offensive season this year.

If he got 5400 points over the rest of his career, which would mean scoring at rates lower than his average healthy season by a fair amount, he'd be at over 23000. He's had a pretty healthy career as well.

There's no one at or around that number and several who are below it and were known mostly as scorers who are in the Hall. Couldn't see him not making it eventually at that point.
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#94 » by Jerry Lucas » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:02 pm

Question related to Vince, has a star player from any other team ever had their number retired after leaving under such heated circumstances like demanding a trade?

I would go with Kawhi, then Vince, then DeMar, and not retire Bosh's number. The two who got the rings deserve to go up first. Vince put us on the map and we probably avoided the same fate as the Vancouver Grizzlies as a result. DeMar completes the Raps Mount Rushmore but honestly, the fact that we couldn't get over the championship hump until he was gone kind of taints his entire time here IMO.
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#95 » by Bankai » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:32 pm

In terms of accomplishments as a Raptor: Kawhi, Vince, Demar, Bosh. Lowry should have his retired first however.
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#96 » by billy_hoyle » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:37 pm

Cael wrote:
Parataxis wrote:None of them. But if I had to choose

Demar, Vince, Bosh, Kawhi.

Loyalty matters, tenure matters.


Facts only.


Loyalty matters alot.

DeMar is the only number I'd want retired of those guys. I can see a case for VC and Kawhi, but I don't really see one for Bosh. Great player, but didn't really win anything/team wasn't memorable enough. He's sorta a quintessential lone star that treadmilled on our team and put up counting stats.
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#97 » by rapstarter » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:23 pm

billy_hoyle wrote:
Cael wrote:
Parataxis wrote:None of them. But if I had to choose

Demar, Vince, Bosh, Kawhi.

Loyalty matters, tenure matters.


Facts only.


Loyalty matters alot.

DeMar is the only number I'd want retired of those guys. I can see a case for VC and Kawhi, but I don't really see one for Bosh. Great player, but didn't really win anything/team wasn't memorable enough. He's sorta a quintessential lone star that treadmilled on our team and put up counting stats.


DeMar's memorable moments weren't much better though. He was the worst playoffs performer in franchise history.
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#98 » by Kingsway_fan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:27 pm

ruckus wrote:To be honest, I'd rather see honours given to guys like Alvin Williams, Jose Calderon and MoPete. Guys that always had good things to say about the city and franchise and always gave their all on the court. Yeah, they weren't as talented as Vince, Bosh and Kawhi but these were the guys that carried the franchise during the tough times. I also might put Amir Johnson and JYD in that group as well.


Lol so you belong to the school that says and believes that all participants get a ribbon for attendance and displaying a pulse... The NDP way, lol.. reward the incompetent, those that don't produce... lowest common denominator.... lol

A perverse thinking that is rampant in canada these days...I noticed...

I prefer to acknowledge and reward achievement... I prefer to have a team that has superstars... good attendance , like breathing, is not a qualification for knighthood in my books...
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#99 » by ruckus » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:29 pm

Kingsway_fan wrote:
ruckus wrote:To be honest, I'd rather see honours given to guys like Alvin Williams, Jose Calderon and MoPete. Guys that always had good things to say about the city and franchise and always gave their all on the court. Yeah, they weren't as talented as Vince, Bosh and Kawhi but these were the guys that carried the franchise during the tough times. I also might put Amir Johnson and JYD in that group as well.


Lol so you belong to the school that says and believes that all participants get a ribbon for attendance and displaying a pulse... The NDP way, lol.. reward the incompetent, those that don't produce... lowest common denominator.... lol

A perverse thinking that is rampant in canada these days...I noticed...

I prefer to acknowledge and reward achievement... I prefer to have a team that has superstars... good attendance , like breathing, is not a qualification for knighthood in my books...


And what has Vince done that deserves knighthood? He's the epitome of the participation award - all the talent in the world with none of the desire. He couldn't handle the spotlight so he preferred to ride the coattails of others until he faded into the background. If Vince had half of Kobe's drive, his career would have been a completely different story. Vince wanted all of the shine without any of the sacrifice. What is his legacy now? Roleplaying until hes 40? Playing just hard enough so he can put up decent numbers without overexertion? The whole nebulous "saviour of Canada basketball" schtick?

Alvin Williams literally gave his knees for the franchise, Jose was the gateway to making this team truly international, JYD wanted to be a part of this team so badly that he drove straight from Detroit. These guys were actual Raptors while guys like Bosh, Kawhi and Vince looked at Toronto as stepping stones to their own personal achievements.
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Re: Rank these former Raptors from most deserving to least deserving of their Jersey being retired? 

Post#100 » by PoundTown » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:24 pm

It’s just Lowry for me guys. Maybe demar, Kawhi and Vince one day. No to bosh.

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