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Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons

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Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1921 » by ruckus » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:31 pm

Wall wants out. What can Houston put together for Simmons? Does he make sense for Houston?

Green, Simmons, Wood isn't that bad of a starting point for an up and coming team.
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Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1922 » by Gavin_TDThree » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:31 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:It was easier to hide Simmons when he just didn't take 3s. Now, he's reluctant to even shoot from in close because he's afraid to shoot FT's. Hiding a player who doesn't shoot AT ALL is a big problem.

His shot attempts have declined since his rookie year. FG attempts per 36

17/18: 13.2
18/19: 12.7
19/20: 11.4
20/21: 11.2


Great point. I'm not sure what it will take to get him over this mental block. He's got the yips when it comes to shooting. For his sake, hopefully a change of scenery and a different voice in his ear will encourage him to get back on track
Side hobby: I post basketball highlights. Hoping to eventually start a podcast about basketball :D

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Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1923 » by Dalek » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:45 pm

I will say that it is interesting that Philly has drafted both Ben Simmons and Markelle Fultz who both had major issues mentally with shooting. Not sure if there is something wrong with their player development, or the pressure of playing against a hostile Philly home crowd, but let's say it is unusual that two lottery picks couldn't develop that aspect of their game while there.

I'd like a Simmons trade because he fits the defense first and transition scoring mentality. He's probably the best player in the league from that perspective and considering the crazy pace Toronto typically has played at, he makes sense. I almost think people only look at his faults and miss how good a player he is as an offensive engine. It is totally reasonable given how big a star Embiid is.

Does Simmons have late game scoring issues and three point shooting and freethrow shooting concerns? For sure. But, he is a major event creator and all-NBA defensive first team. He is like a Kawhi type of player from a defensive perspective and that seems to be what Toronto aims for over offense. I think Toronto wants to bully teams on defense and I think Simmons brings it.
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Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1924 » by vini_vidi_vici » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:04 pm

Dalek wrote:I will say that it is interesting that Philly has drafted both Ben Simmons and Markelle Fultz who both had major issues mentally with shooting. Not sure if there is something wrong with their player development, or the pressure of playing against a hostile Philly home crowd, but let's say it is unusual that two lottery picks couldn't develop that aspect of their game while there.

I'd like a Simmons trade because he fits the defense first and transition scoring mentality. He's probably the best player in the league from that perspective and considering the crazy pace Toronto typically has played at, he makes sense. I almost think people only look at his faults and miss how good a player he is as an offensive engine. It is totally reasonable given how big a star Embiid is.

Does Simmons have late game scoring issues and three point shooting and freethrow shooting concerns? For sure. But, he is a major event creator and all-NBA defensive first team. He is like a Kawhi type of player from a defensive perspective and that seems to be what Toronto aims for over offense. I think Toronto wants to bully teams on defense and I think Simmons brings it.


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Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1925 » by Dalek » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:32 pm

vini_vidi_vici wrote:
Dalek wrote:I will say that it is interesting that Philly has drafted both Ben Simmons and Markelle Fultz who both had major issues mentally with shooting. Not sure if there is something wrong with their player development, or the pressure of playing against a hostile Philly home crowd, but let's say it is unusual that two lottery picks couldn't develop that aspect of their game while there.

I'd like a Simmons trade because he fits the defense first and transition scoring mentality. He's probably the best player in the league from that perspective and considering the crazy pace Toronto typically has played at, he makes sense. I almost think people only look at his faults and miss how good a player he is as an offensive engine. It is totally reasonable given how big a star Embiid is.

Does Simmons have late game scoring issues and three point shooting and freethrow shooting concerns? For sure. But, he is a major event creator and all-NBA defensive first team. He is like a Kawhi type of player from a defensive perspective and that seems to be what Toronto aims for over offense. I think Toronto wants to bully teams on defense and I think Simmons brings it.


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Sorry my work blocks imgur images. Can you summarize the stats quoted?
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Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1926 » by vini_vidi_vici » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:44 pm

Dalek wrote:
vini_vidi_vici wrote:
Dalek wrote:I will say that it is interesting that Philly has drafted both Ben Simmons and Markelle Fultz who both had major issues mentally with shooting. Not sure if there is something wrong with their player development, or the pressure of playing against a hostile Philly home crowd, but let's say it is unusual that two lottery picks couldn't develop that aspect of their game while there.

I'd like a Simmons trade because he fits the defense first and transition scoring mentality. He's probably the best player in the league from that perspective and considering the crazy pace Toronto typically has played at, he makes sense. I almost think people only look at his faults and miss how good a player he is as an offensive engine. It is totally reasonable given how big a star Embiid is.

Does Simmons have late game scoring issues and three point shooting and freethrow shooting concerns? For sure. But, he is a major event creator and all-NBA defensive first team. He is like a Kawhi type of player from a defensive perspective and that seems to be what Toronto aims for over offense. I think Toronto wants to bully teams on defense and I think Simmons brings it.


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Sorry my work blocks imgur images. Can you summarize the stats quoted?


No worries, in short hes been awful in transition, for his whole career.

The thing with Simmons, is we expect him to be good in certain areas because his rapport, but you peel back the layers and hes just not.

He was awful in transition, PnR, Cuts, OffScreens. He excelled in 1v1s (ISO/PostUps), where even the best players in them are generally inefficient because the finish itself is inefficient. You cant see the images, but the example being hes 1.00 points per possession in ISOs and in the 75th percentile, but hes 1.00 in transition hes in the 27th.

Maybe he excels with another team (I see that constantly referenced) but as someone who always tries to mitigate risk, there has been little evidence to the contrary.
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Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1927 » by Dalek » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:19 pm

vini_vidi_vici wrote:
Dalek wrote:
vini_vidi_vici wrote:
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Sorry my work blocks imgur images. Can you summarize the stats quoted?


No worries, in short hes been awful in transition, for his whole career.

The thing with Simmons, is we expect him to be good in certain areas because his rapport, but you peel back the layers and hes just not.

He was awful in transition, PnR, Cuts, OffScreens. He excelled in 1v1s (ISO/PostUps), where even the best players in them are generally inefficient because the finish itself is inefficient. You cant see the images, but the example being hes 1.00 points per possession in ISOs and in the 75th percentile, but hes 1.00 in transition hes in the 27th.

Maybe he excels with another team (I see that constantly referenced) but as someone who always tries to mitigate risk, there has been little evidence to the contrary.


He is a weird case because from the film I watch of him he looks elite at getting down the court in transition and is GIannis like in being able to get to the rim - guards can't stop him. At 6'10 with his handle and athleticism there are few people like him. At age 24 he has room to grow - I even think he can add more offense to his game if he had a team and fans that believed in him - kind of like Kyle when he moved from Houston.

To me I have never liked Philly's fit for him. It is obvious that Simmons and Embiid never had a synergy because they play two different styles of ball. I can't account statistically for it, but he just played with a kind of weight on his shoulders with Embiid there. Almost like he wasn't playing to his potential because he needed to feed Embiid rather than eat first.

Additionally, Doc Rivers is such a traditionalist that even though Ben plays is 6'10, he is expected to play full-time PG. I think he could do well do be in an offense that is more egalitarian like Toronto's could end up like.

Imagine Ben not being the primary ballhandler all the time on a team with guys like Pascal or Scottie running pick and roll and Ben acting as a roll man. How much has Ben ever been used as a short-roll passer?

I just think he is a smart, unselfish guy who has enough aggression to finish at the rim at will or find options if it gets clogged up. I also think he would be a great model for Scottie Barnes to follow.

Whether his current skillset and price tag are too much to take on is a fair question. But, I am just seeing him fit the narrow archetype Toronto is keenly interested in. To me, if you want to play bully ball, he is one of the few guys that fits our age, skill-set and size quotients.

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