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Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!!

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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#221 » by bboyskinnylegs » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:03 pm

Indeed wrote:
bboyskinnylegs wrote:
M3tro wrote:Maybe we're really eyeing Green and hyping up Mobley so Houston snags him.

If we pony up assets to move up one spot to 3rd, I think it's because of the slim chance that Green falls, combined with the guarantee of being able to draft Mobley in case he doesn't.


I think it was the Cavs who asked to trade down, and the Raptors give them an offer because the Cavs asked for it.
The rumour didn't say the Raptors initiate the trade up.

yeah I don't think we'd initiate talks with the Cavs ourselves if we wanted to move up, we'd try to remove the uncertainty completely and deal with Houston directly (it's possible their asking price is high though). We're probably better off just playing chicken with the Cavs and seeing if they have the stones to draft someone that they potentially might not want but perceive to have higher trade value.

I'm just saying that in my opinion, the only reason we'd talk to them about #3 is so we ensure that one of Green/Mobley is available when we select vs. most likely drafting Suggs at 4 (with a slim chance one of those two is still around). Maybe it's possible we're trying to ensure we can draft Suggs or Barnes or whoever at #3, but that seems like a stretch imo.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#222 » by WuTang_OG » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:15 pm

Ivan Drago wrote:Our new Giannis

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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#223 » by Young_Buc » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:20 pm

So for reference sake who knew we coveted...

Malachi Flynn?
Pascal Siakam?
OG? (well he slipped but still)
Poltel?
Bruno? (WAY out of left field here)

Aside from MAYBE OG we've NEVER been locked in on ANYONE. Barnes and trade up talk scream Suggs if history is an indication.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#224 » by HumbleRen » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:21 pm

Peak angst right now in the thread.

Draft day can't come soon enough
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#225 » by mtcan » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:24 pm

HumbleRen wrote:Peak angst right now in the thread.

Draft day can't come soon enough

I'm ready now for the draft. I wanna move past this tanking/lottery/draft phase.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#226 » by Badonkadonk » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:34 pm

HumbleRen wrote:Peak angst right now in the thread.

Draft day can't come soon enough

I couldn't agree more. Everybody's made up their minds on who they want, only thing left to do is just get our guy and shift our focus to his development and fit.

My best case scenario is Mobley, since I do think he rivals Cade as #1. I'm relatively happy with Suggs as a consolation prize, since I think he's being underrated (except by Vecenie and some of the analysts) and have him clearly ahead of Green.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#227 » by Dalek » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:35 pm

ForeverTFC wrote:
Dalek wrote:
No one is saying Suggs is a future all-star. The little I have heard about his pre-draft process people mention worrying things:

.


You have to do better than this. This is the 6th thread on the first page right now: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2105414


I didn't see the comment from Vecenie, and honestly it is just one comment from one writer. Maybe it is just the writers Draft Twitter guys I follow, but I get the sense people are a bit luke warm on his prospects as a future all-star. What I have seen is that he is a nice complimentary piece, which is what he was on Gonzaga.

Seth Davis interviewed NBA scouts and here is the assessment on Suggs:

“He’s not the most talented player in the draft skill-wise, but he’s gonna rip your heart out to win a drill. The only thing I would question is his shooting. He will impact your organization and help you win games. I’ve heard his workouts have been great, but people are surprised how much work his passing needs. He’s got unbelievable confidence and swagger. He’s in the Jamal Murray model. If there’s a weakness, he’s got average size for his position. In our league he’s not gonna get to the basket like he did in college. He can be a little turnover prone.”

https://theathletic.com/2709333/2021/07/22/his-shooting-is-atrocious-finch-reveals-all-on-top-2021-nba-draft-prospects/?article_source=search&search_query=jalen%20suggs

To me, it is kind of like why people are not as keen on Davion Mitchell. Was he a true lead initiator, or did he just succeed in his role as combo guard? At least with Mitchell you know his shooting is solid given the diversity of shotmaking in his arsenal.

Here is another assessment on Suggs:
Streaky shooter. Sound mechanics and good balance but a career 27% from 3 on 190 attempts, according to our database. Nothing to suggest he won't become a reliable shooter, but the results just aren't there yet.
- From ESPN's assessment. ESPN thinks he is a Franchise PG, but they also think the same of Davion Mitchell.

From what I can see, Suggs wasn't a great lead initiator in college. Andrew Nembhard played more of that role and had a 4-1 assist to turnover ratio (Suggs only had 4.5-3). I wonder what drives his high turnover percentage. My feeling is that he wasn't really a lead guy that ran the offense. He was more of a create off the dribble and make quick hitter passes as secondary options.

With Suggs it is just hard to define who he is. HIs steal% is the only thing elite about him. He gambles smartly on defense in passing lanes but his size, wingspan, athleticism are not elite. I am curious how he will translate to the NBA, but to me drafting a combo guard at 4 is not the best, unless Suggs already at age 20, has a lot of room to grow. I would rather just continue with FVV, Malachi and short stint with Lowry if we want to win-now.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#228 » by C_Money » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:36 pm

Ivan Drago wrote:Our new Giannis

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Mobley and Giannis are two very different players.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#229 » by ForeverTFC » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:42 pm

Dalek wrote:
ForeverTFC wrote:
Dalek wrote:
No one is saying Suggs is a future all-star. The little I have heard about his pre-draft process people mention worrying things:

.


You have to do better than this. This is the 6th thread on the first page right now: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2105414


I didn't see the comment from Vecenie, and honestly it is just one comment from one writer. Maybe it is just the writers Draft Twitter guys I follow, but I get the sense people are a bit luke warm on his prospects as a future all-star. What I have seen is that he is a nice complimentary piece, which is what he was on Gonzaga.

Seth Davis interviewed NBA scouts and here is the assessment on Suggs:

“He’s not the most talented player in the draft skill-wise, but he’s gonna rip your heart out to win a drill. The only thing I would question is his shooting. He will impact your organization and help you win games. I’ve heard his workouts have been great, but people are surprised how much work his passing needs. He’s got unbelievable confidence and swagger. He’s in the Jamal Murray model. If there’s a weakness, he’s got average size for his position. In our league he’s not gonna get to the basket like he did in college. He can be a little turnover prone.”

https://theathletic.com/2709333/2021/07/22/his-shooting-is-atrocious-finch-reveals-all-on-top-2021-nba-draft-prospects/?article_source=search&search_query=jalen%20suggs

To me, it is kind of like why people are not as keen on Davion Mitchell. Was he a true lead initiator, or did he just succeed in his role as combo guard? At least with Mitchell you know his shooting is solid given the diversity of shotmaking in his arsenal.

Here is another assessment on Suggs:
Streaky shooter. Sound mechanics and good balance but a career 27% from 3 on 190 attempts, according to our database. Nothing to suggest he won't become a reliable shooter, but the results just aren't there yet.
- From ESPN's assessment. ESPN thinks he is a Franchise PG, but they also think the same of Davion Mitchell.

From what I can see, Suggs wasn't a great lead initiator in college. Andrew Nembhard played more of that role and had a 4-1 assist to turnover ratio (Suggs only had 4.5-3). I wonder what drives his high turnover percentage. My feeling is that he wasn't really a lead guy that ran the offense. He was more of a create off the dribble and make quick hitter passes as secondary options.

With Suggs it is just hard to define who he is. HIs steal% is the only thing elite about him. He gambles smartly on defense in passing lanes but his size, wingspan, athleticism are not elite. I am curious how he will translate to the NBA, but to me drafting a combo guard at 4 is not the best, unless Suggs already at age 20, has a lot of room to grow. I would rather just continue with FVV, Malachi and short stint with Lowry if we want to win-now.


I mean, we can play this game if you want. There is a ton out there hyping Suggs. Here is another for example: CBS

Round 1 - Pick 2: I'm going Suggs because I think he has the highest upside here. He has All-Star upside. Rockets would immediately find themselves in an upward trajectory with him on the roster. -- Norlander


Does he have less hype than Green and Mobley? Definitely. But there are enough educated people out there who think he's the 2nd best prospect in this draft.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#230 » by WuTang_OG » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:47 pm

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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#231 » by Morris_Shatford » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:48 pm

Dalek wrote:
Here is another assessment on Suggs:
Streaky shooter. Sound mechanics and good balance but a career 27% from 3 on 190 attempts, according to our database. Nothing to suggest he won't become a reliable shooter, but the results just aren't there yet.


Sorry to pop into the middle of the this;
I saw the above and I am a little confused?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jalen-suggs-1.html

Suggs took 104 3PTA and shot 34%
With 308 FGA and shot 50%
Even just 2PTA he took 204 and shot 59%

When I saw the 27% from 3 I thought maybe they used Barnes' numbers but he only took 40 3PTA

Looking at her per game log, I am trying to piece together what may match it?
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jalen-suggs-1/gamelog/2021

I am curious as to which database they are using, Because I can't find 190 3PTA anywhere.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#232 » by Qhawe » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:52 pm

MavCarter wrote:I never actually thought of the jeff green comparison for kuminga before lol


I think this is a good comparison. They're both kind of mechanical.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#233 » by Sandman88 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:52 pm

Pascal for richaun Holmes + kings #9?
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#234 » by will » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:52 pm

Jalen Suggs!
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#235 » by WuTang_OG » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:53 pm

Sandman88 wrote:Pascal for richaun Holmes + kings #9?

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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#236 » by Morris_Shatford » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:55 pm

Sandman88 wrote:Pascal for richaun Holmes + kings #9?


Holmes is an Early Bird contract for the Kings;
Even if we could do some shady dealing during the draft and have then draft for us, they can only offer him I think around 10m a season? He will likely command more than that.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#237 » by RapsFanInOhio » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:58 pm

Sandman88 wrote:Pascal for richaun Holmes + kings #9?

Holmes is a free agent
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#238 » by Raps in 4 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:59 pm

Ivan Drago wrote:Our new Giannis

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Don't disrespect Evan like that.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#239 » by Bruin » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:01 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=21


Jalen Suggs, 6-4 freshman guard, Gonzaga. “He’s not the most talented player in the draft skill-wise, but he’s gonna rip your heart out to win a drill. The only thing I would question is his shooting. He will impact your organization and help you win games. I’ve heard his workouts have been great, but people are surprised how much work his passing needs. He’s got unbelievable confidence and swagger. He’s in the Jamal Murray model. If there’s a weakness, he’s got average size for his position. In our league he’s not gonna get to the basket like he did in college. He can be a little turnover prone.”



Evan Mobley, 7-0 freshman forward, USC. “His impact on that USC team was incredible. He’s got to get a lot stronger to be able to handle the physicality of playing the five in our league. He can knock down a 17-footer now, but he has to be able to move it back a few feet. Chris Bosh got there, why couldn’t he? I used to think he was too nice but not anymore. Not a great rim protector but he’s big enough to deter people. My main concern is stability in his base and whether he can pick up weight. You wonder if he loves the game. Will he get into the weight room and change his body?”

Scottie Barnes, 6-9 freshman forward, Florida State. “Love Scottie. Freak body. Defensively he can guard one through five. If he can become a shooter he’ll be an all-star. But if he can’t then it’s a problem because no one will guard him. A kid who works that hard at everything else, I don’t doubt that’s going to come around. He can’t shoot like Draymond Green yet, but everything else he does reminds me of Draymond. He’s shown he’s willing to be a good complementary player.”


Jonathan Kuminga, 6-8 forward, NBA G League. “He’s a freak. Clearly the most gifted athlete in the draft. Can guard one through four. He can make a shot, but he’s not the greatest decision-maker. But he’s not even 19 and he’s got loads of potential. I’m not sure how committed he is. I thought he was great at the beginning of the bubble, but then he faded. I think his motor runs inconsistently, but when it’s running high he’s special. He’s pretty explosive for his size. He’s Pascal Siakam.”
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Re: Draft Thread Part 10: 4th Pick !!!! 

Post#240 » by DatHomieYouHaTe » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:03 pm

PrinceAli wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21



Nice way of saying mediocre player
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