ImageImageImageImageImage

With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2

Moderators: Alfred, 7 Footer, Reeko, lebron stopper, niQ, Morris_Shatford, DG88, gojoorange

vulture
Veteran
Posts: 2,661
And1: 736
Joined: Oct 04, 2002
Location: At the Border

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1081 » by vulture » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:01 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
vulture wrote:Really great article from the Stepien.
https://www.thestepien.com/2021/08/26/scottie-barnes-skeleton-key/

Although Jalen Suggs may have been a more seamless fit, or perhaps one that requires less creativity to imagine, Scottie Barnes is an extremely gifted prospect who has many developmental avenues to becoming a high level contributor on very good teams. Scottie has real creation potential with ball in hand for his size, and impressive defensive versatility. He makes good decisions as a passer, but he needs to work on his shooting and flexibility to maximize the utility of those tools and skills in half court settings.

I generally bet on higher feel prospects, especially those with lots of experience, translating well to the NBA and Barnes is no exception. He has the outlines of a real dribble/pass/shoot skill set in a forward sized body, and if he can improve in the necessary areas, Scottie will be a context-portable weapon on both ends of the floor. Due to his across-the-board contributions and experience fulfilling a variety of roles, he could unlock an increased amount of flexibility for the Raptors to fill out the rest of their roster as the rebuild (or reconfigure) continues. For a team without a clear direction right now, I think the pick is a great one if a little surprising, and I’m excited to watch Scottie’s career unfold.


That was a really good read. One is the most detailed analyses of him I've seen.


Yes it's a great article and this nugget caught my eye. Fixing this flexibility issue will allow him to become a much more fluid athlete.

Scottie already doesn’t have the flexibility (especially lower body) required to explode yet; he moves quickly but it takes him a while to get to top speed. As a ball handler, this limits his ability to turn the corner and blow by defenders. He’s shown some comfortability with varying his pace of play to throw off defenders, but he can still improve here. Making better use of his strength to out-muscle defenders would go a long way to improving the results of his attacks off the dribble.
HangTime
Analyst
Posts: 3,288
And1: 2,472
Joined: Oct 18, 2011

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1082 » by HangTime » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:25 pm

I can see him winning 6th man of the year as a defensive park plug.
Dalek
General Manager
Posts: 7,572
And1: 5,574
Joined: Jan 24, 2005
Location: back to the basket
 

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1083 » by Dalek » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:32 pm

HangTime wrote:I can see him winning 6th man of the year as a defensive park plug.


Scottie might be incredibly valuable as a 6 man, but that award is almost always going to a scorer. I don't foresee Scottie scoring 18-20 PPG over the first couple years in the NBA.

I think a more realistic target would be to make make the all-rookie first team and in the future an all-defensive second team nod.

Scottie just won't be a huge numbers guy unless something big clicks for him and his role changes. He just seems like winner and committed to team success over having some individual numbers that usually help a guy to win these NBA awards which are focused on the box score stats.
KL78192020
General Manager
Posts: 8,270
And1: 7,083
Joined: Apr 19, 2009

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1084 » by KL78192020 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:21 pm

Dalek wrote:
HangTime wrote:I can see him winning 6th man of the year as a defensive park plug.


Scottie might be incredibly valuable as a 6 man, but that award is almost always going to a scorer. I don't foresee Scottie scoring 18-20 PPG over the first couple years in the NBA.

I think a more realistic target would be to make make the all-rookie first team and in the future an all-defensive second team nod.

Scottie just won't be a huge numbers guy unless something big clicks for him and his role changes. He just seems like winner and committed to team success over having some individual numbers that usually help a guy to win these NBA awards which are focused on the box score stats.


Ya 6th man is always a scorer. Could be trash on D it doesn’t matter. Lou will award.
HangTime
Analyst
Posts: 3,288
And1: 2,472
Joined: Oct 18, 2011

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1085 » by HangTime » Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:40 am

KL78192020 wrote:
Dalek wrote:
HangTime wrote:I can see him winning 6th man of the year as a defensive park plug.


Scottie might be incredibly valuable as a 6 man, but that award is almost always going to a scorer. I don't foresee Scottie scoring 18-20 PPG over the first couple years in the NBA.

I think a more realistic target would be to make make the all-rookie first team and in the future an all-defensive second team nod.


Scottie just won't be a huge numbers guy unless something big clicks for him and his role changes. He just seems like winner and committed to team success over having some individual numbers that usually help a guy to win these NBA awards which are focused on the box score stats.


Ya 6th man is always a scorer. Could be trash on D it doesn’t matter. Lou will award.


I want to see if he can change the meaning of what it takes to be a 6th man of the year.

Maybe 11pts, 5 reb, 3 ast, 3 stl/blk, and just that hyper active defender.
Maybe he can lockdown alot those high end bench scorers.

I don't know, I'm just excited to see how he fits in with this team.
Dalek
General Manager
Posts: 7,572
And1: 5,574
Joined: Jan 24, 2005
Location: back to the basket
 

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1086 » by Dalek » Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:33 pm

HangTime wrote:
KL78192020 wrote:
Dalek wrote:
Scottie might be incredibly valuable as a 6 man, but that award is almost always going to a scorer. I don't foresee Scottie scoring 18-20 PPG over the first couple years in the NBA.

I think a more realistic target would be to make make the all-rookie first team and in the future an all-defensive second team nod.


Scottie just won't be a huge numbers guy unless something big clicks for him and his role changes. He just seems like winner and committed to team success over having some individual numbers that usually help a guy to win these NBA awards which are focused on the box score stats.


Ya 6th man is always a scorer. Could be trash on D it doesn’t matter. Lou will award.


I want to see if he can change the meaning of what it takes to be a 6th man of the year.

Maybe 11pts, 5 reb, 3 ast, 3 stl/blk, and just that hyper active defender.
Maybe he can lockdown alot those high end bench scorers.

I don't know, I'm just excited to see how he fits in with this team.


I think he will be great in a bench role. If that is what he ends up doing. I was just reading the Blake Murphy article on the Athletic and he wrote about different line-ups, and I'd be really tempted for Toronto to play a big line-up with Scottie:

The other path would be to go big. Scottie Barnes has enough skills where he, Anunoby and Siakam across the two-three-four spots might be able to account for the lack of traditional guard play in such a lineup. Spacing would be at a serious premium, but they would be hellacious to try to score against with so much size, switchability and general defensive quality. You could find a path to Chris Boucher starting in a larger lineup, too, though I think his best role is probably as a higher-usage bench scorer.


https://theathletic.com/2787722/2021/08/27/early-raptors-camp-battles-fifth-starter-who-rounds-out-the-second-unit-roster-spots-and-more/

My argument is that you throw Scottie in with the best talent on Toronto and let him play his swiss army role. Let him handle a bit, shoot from outside doing his fairly decent set-shot, and just let him defend twos. He is a monster that is awaiting to be unleashed.
libertyYYZ
Junior
Posts: 428
And1: 263
Joined: Sep 21, 2019
   

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1087 » by libertyYYZ » Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:37 pm

Dalek wrote:
HangTime wrote:
KL78192020 wrote:
Ya 6th man is always a scorer. Could be trash on D it doesn’t matter. Lou will award.


I want to see if he can change the meaning of what it takes to be a 6th man of the year.

Maybe 11pts, 5 reb, 3 ast, 3 stl/blk, and just that hyper active defender.
Maybe he can lockdown alot those high end bench scorers.

I don't know, I'm just excited to see how he fits in with this team.


I think he will be great in a bench role. If that is what he ends up doing. I was just reading the Blake Murphy article on the Athletic and he wrote about different line-ups, and I'd be really tempted for Toronto to play a big line-up with Scottie:

The other path would be to go big. Scottie Barnes has enough skills where he, Anunoby and Siakam across the two-three-four spots might be able to account for the lack of traditional guard play in such a lineup. Spacing would be at a serious premium, but they would be hellacious to try to score against with so much size, switchability and general defensive quality. You could find a path to Chris Boucher starting in a larger lineup, too, though I think his best role is probably as a higher-usage bench scorer.


https://theathletic.com/2787722/2021/08/27/early-raptors-camp-battles-fifth-starter-who-rounds-out-the-second-unit-roster-spots-and-more/

My argument is that you throw Scottie in with the best talent on Toronto and let him play his swiss army role. Let him handle a bit, shoot from outside doing his fairly decent set-shot, and just let him defend twos. He is a monster that is awaiting to be unleashed.

Both starting role (5th option like the first year OG role) and bench role (Pascal's old bench role) are open. It just boils down to whether the kid can shoot the open shot. If he can, he's a shoo-in to fit into the starting lineup.

Pre-season will show us a bunch and the first 20 games will show us some more. The kid is going to be good, but his skills and confidence will really tell Nurse where to slot him in. I doubt that NN wastes a starter's position early in the season and distorts the offence just to accomodate a wet behind the ears rookie. If the team gels and gets above .500 in the first 20 games, you know that NN will look to push for the playoffs. If we struggle, then by game 40 we'll be back to running out the young guys. Enjoy the journey!
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships." -- Michael Jordan
vulture
Veteran
Posts: 2,661
And1: 736
Joined: Oct 04, 2002
Location: At the Border

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1088 » by vulture » Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:35 pm



for all you nerds this is a great film breakdown of Scottie in summer league. it starts at 2:30.
User avatar
PhilBlackson
RealGM
Posts: 21,293
And1: 34,140
Joined: May 02, 2017
Location: No Wastemans Land
     

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1089 » by PhilBlackson » Sat Sep 4, 2021 2:17 am

I need some new footage of Barnes, like Tyrone Biggums needs some crack.
>>>SCOTTIE2HOTTIE<<< Ya Boi Scottie & Gua Gang -- U KNOW THE VIBEZ :guitar:
Image Jalen BabyGOAT Green
User avatar
WuTang_OG
RealGM
Posts: 11,404
And1: 18,098
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
 

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1090 » by WuTang_OG » Sat Sep 4, 2021 2:26 am

Barnes hard drives to the rim and finishing are Giannis like. Once he gets more comofrtable and has confidence (as we saw in SL), he'll be doing stuff like that on the NBA stage. Cant wait
gbball
Senior
Posts: 535
And1: 656
Joined: Oct 23, 2009

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1091 » by gbball » Sat Sep 4, 2021 2:40 am

PhilBlackson wrote:I need some new footage of Barnes, like Tyrone Biggums needs some crack.


Same here. I guess it helps me be more productive though.

Interesting comparison statistically between Grant Hill and Scottie Barnes here in terms of freshman stats. Hill was slightly ahead in pts and rebounds, but Barnes with the big edge in assists. Also very similar FG and FT percentages.

Their games are very different in terms of aesthetics but cool to see regardless. I always saw Cade as the more Grant Hill like prospect, but maybe that ends up being Barnes since he's about the same size as Grant was and with similar athleticism.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/grant-hill-1.html


Season School Conf G GS MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS SOS
1990-91 Duke ACC 36 31 24.6 4.4 8.6 .516 4.4 8.6 .516 0.0 0.1 .500 2.3 3.7 .609 5.1 2.2 1.4 0.8 2.1 2.2 11.2 10.62

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/scottie-barnes-1.html


Season School Conf G GS MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS SOS
2020-21 Florida State ACC 24 7 24.8 4.1 8.1 .503 3.6 6.5 .561 0.5 1.7 .275 1.7 2.8 .621 1.5 2.5 4.0 4.1 1.5 0.5 2.5 2.2 10.3 9.16




I'm probably just being a homer though. :lol:
User avatar
Boogie!
RealGM
Posts: 48,819
And1: 41,890
Joined: Oct 27, 2005
Location: Ba da da da daaaaaa. If you build it, they will come!
Contact:
   

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1092 » by Boogie! » Sat Sep 4, 2021 6:01 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:Barnes hard drives to the rim and finishing are Giannis like. Once he gets more comofrtable and has confidence (as we saw in SL), he'll be doing stuff like that on the NBA stage. Cant wait


Nah. Giannis was way more freakish. Look at his sl highlights the guy was postering guys every game. Barnes is not as explosive.
Image
manjusaka
Junior
Posts: 336
And1: 260
Joined: Oct 25, 2017
   

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1093 » by manjusaka » Sat Sep 4, 2021 6:18 pm

Boogie! wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:Barnes hard drives to the rim and finishing are Giannis like. Once he gets more comofrtable and has confidence (as we saw in SL), he'll be doing stuff like that on the NBA stage. Cant wait


Nah. Giannis was way more freakish. Look at his sl highlights the guy was postering guys every game. Barnes is not as explosive.


Watched some Giannis’s rookie highlights, it appears Giannis had a better handle than Barnes right now. Especially the hesitation and changing speed move, so he can blow by pretty much everyone on the court at will.

We know Barnes is working on the midrange game and some back to the basket moves (fade-away). Maybe the front office want to mold him into Kawhi’s skillsets instead of Giannis’s
HumbleRen
Senior
Posts: 510
And1: 501
Joined: Jul 02, 2021
 

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1094 » by HumbleRen » Sat Sep 4, 2021 6:37 pm

I don’t see any Giannis in Scottie aside from being pseudo point forwards.

Scottie is no where near the athlete that Giannis is, even the malnourished Giannis in his rookie szn had WAY more burst than Scottie in the half court setting.
User avatar
WuTang_OG
RealGM
Posts: 11,404
And1: 18,098
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
 

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1095 » by WuTang_OG » Sat Sep 4, 2021 7:43 pm

Boogie! wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:Barnes hard drives to the rim and finishing are Giannis like. Once he gets more comofrtable and has confidence (as we saw in SL), he'll be doing stuff like that on the NBA stage. Cant wait


Nah. Giannis was way more freakish. Look at his sl highlights the guy was postering guys every game. Barnes is not as explosive.


No theres definitely similiarities with the drives and dunking. And once he gets his body rounded out he’ll be even more of a force.
will
RealGM
Posts: 29,395
And1: 25,542
Joined: Jan 08, 2006
Location: Pat's Homestyle Jamaican Restaurant
Contact:
         

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1096 » by will » Sat Sep 4, 2021 10:44 pm

PhilBlackson wrote:I need some new footage of Barnes, like Tyrone Biggums needs some crack.


Martinez's stuff is the bomb! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That Tyrone Biggums character one of the funniest ever on the Chappelle's Show. Oh my goodness.
Image
User avatar
garbagnani
Starter
Posts: 2,450
And1: 194
Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1097 » by garbagnani » Sun Sep 5, 2021 4:24 am

WuTang_OG wrote:
Boogie! wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:Barnes hard drives to the rim and finishing are Giannis like. Once he gets more comofrtable and has confidence (as we saw in SL), he'll be doing stuff like that on the NBA stage. Cant wait


Nah. Giannis was way more freakish. Look at his sl highlights the guy was postering guys every game. Barnes is not as explosive.


No theres definitely similiarities with the drives and dunking. And once he gets his body rounded out he’ll be even more of a force.


Agreed. Scottie gets going downhill like giannis.
User avatar
720
RealGM
Posts: 23,818
And1: 52,014
Joined: Nov 01, 2012
Location: Malton

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1098 » by 720 » Sun Sep 5, 2021 8:19 pm

I think one major key to Barnes' future success is the ability to absorb contact and finish. I think atm he is inconsistent with it which is why in a lot of plays it looks like he has no shot at finishing once he is fouled/hit with contact.

Image

If he can improve his speed with ball and ability to play through contact he'll be able to punish guys even more. In the play above he slows down and lets Thor catch up to him. With further work that could be a successful finish.
Image
We were right all along. #tWo
Run Barnes at point!
Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, Curry, Lebron, Isiah, Dirk, Wade and Kobe. All drafted IN THE LOTTERY. That's a combined 29 championships.
User avatar
720
RealGM
Posts: 23,818
And1: 52,014
Joined: Nov 01, 2012
Location: Malton

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1099 » by 720 » Sun Sep 5, 2021 8:32 pm

In college there are clips of him finishing above contact so we know he is capable.
Image
We were right all along. #tWo
Run Barnes at point!
Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, Curry, Lebron, Isiah, Dirk, Wade and Kobe. All drafted IN THE LOTTERY. That's a combined 29 championships.
Dalek
General Manager
Posts: 7,572
And1: 5,574
Joined: Jan 24, 2005
Location: back to the basket
 

Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#1100 » by Dalek » Mon Sep 6, 2021 6:20 am

I found a cool video of a match up between Scottie Barnes and David Johnson.

;t=562s&ab_channel=KnicksDraft

I keep mentioning how underrated the draft of Johnson was. He didn't get a long run at SL, but he is extremely skilled and I'd argue he could be just as good as Suggs long-term. The more film I watch of him the more you see how incredibly smart the kid is making the right pass, never being overwhelmed playing a very measured game. The shooting is coming along and he does a lot of great off-the-ball cutting.

Barnes in this game had his modest 10 and 6 line, but the box never tells his full story. He does so much and seems to be everywhere, getting boards, deflections, slick whip passes, a couple made threes and just raising the energy of his team.

Return to Toronto Raptors