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[Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted

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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1001 » by SaveTheHens » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:48 pm

Buy him out? Do you work for MLSE and just wanna save a few mil? Wth folks just keep the guy for a year, if teams want him at the trade deadline and we get value back then take the deal. Otherwise theres no issues having dragic here and enjoying an entertaining season. Hes a 3 pt shooter, he’s a slasher, he’ll be fun to watch and can give his own version of mentoring for Freddy n Malachi. If we make the playoffs we’ll have someone who can help reach the second round. Winning a round for the younger guys is a huge confidence boost and itll double the playoff experience for the young guys. Dragic is sweet, if no deal comes by just enjoy the ride, stop overthinking this
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1002 » by Dalek » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:29 pm

To me there are two logical paths for Toronto and both are contingent on October 1, although an early buy-out might happen.

1. Dragic's salary cannot be aggregated with another players salary until October 1 passes, so if Toronto intends to deal him with a player like FVV or OG for Simmons, it would be contingent on that date.

2. If Toronto is interested in a player like Moses Brown who is a minimum deal, he can only be aggregated with another player's salary like Dwight Powell until after October 1.

If Toronto opts to buy-out Dragic, they may want to do it prior to September 28, unless they want this situation to hang over the team during Training Camp.

I don't think Dragic has given any indication of coming to Toronto. When you think that most players are coming in now to get apartments and their lives sorted out prior to camp, you'd figure Dragic would be doing the same even if it was temporary.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1003 » by navyblue » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:33 pm

raptors are not buying out dragic, end of discussion, raptors chose to have Miami pick up his 19 mil option.

if they buy him out, they essentially paid 19 mil(or what ever the buyout amount is) for precious

there is no dallas trade negotiated and just waiting for oct 1st, it would have leaked already. (see the Memphis boston dunn+edwards for hernangomez trade, its reported everywhere, but not official since aggregation rules)

dragic will be here till the deadline; and if not traded a buyout after that is possible depending on the standings.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1004 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:57 pm

I still don't get how Powell Burke and Moses brown doesn't get it done on both sides.

We should be able to find a 3rd team to take Powell, Det/Indy/Hornets comes to mind.

Burke can iso score for 3million off the bench for us and Brown is a solid prospect.

A return of Precious/Moses Brown/Trey Burke for a FA Lowry is a win

Dallas is still left with Maxi + WCS + Boban + KP for the 5 spot & get their lead guard off the bench in Dragic
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1005 » by Tor_Raps » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:01 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:I still don't get how Powell Burke and Moses brown doesn't get it done on both sides.

We should be able to find a 3rd team to take Powell, Det/Indy/Hornets comes to mind.

Burke can iso score for 3million off the bench for us and Brown is a solid prospect.

A return of Precious/Moses Brown/Trey Burke for a FA Lowry is a win

Dallas is still left with Maxi + WCS + Boban + KP for the 5 spot & get their lead guard off the bench in Dragic


I am wondering the same thing. There better be an agreement in place for October when Brown is allowed to be traded.

Powell isn't even that bad of a player to hold onto. Maybe he can bounce back from his injury. It's not like we're stacked at the center position or that we're eating into our cap space since we're over anyways.

Let Precious spend a year in the G League and roll with Brown/Birch/Powell as our centers.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1006 » by Nebuchadnezzar » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:07 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:I still don't get how Powell Burke and Moses brown doesn't get it done on both sides.

We should be able to find a 3rd team to take Powell, Det/Indy/Hornets comes to mind.

Burke can iso score for 3million off the bench for us and Brown is a solid prospect.

A return of Precious/Moses Brown/Trey Burke for a FA Lowry is a win

Dallas is still left with Maxi + WCS + Boban + KP for the 5 spot & get their lead guard off the bench in Dragic


I am wondering the same thing. There better be an agreement in place for October when Brown is allowed to be traded.

Powell isn't even that bad of a player to hold onto. Maybe he can bounce back from his injury. It's not like we're stacked at the center position or that we're eating into our cap space since we're over anyways.

Let Precious spend a year in the G League and roll with Brown/Birch/Powell as our centers.


Precious in the G league? He would dominate to the point where it wouldn't be worth it. He has already played a ton in the L, I think I'm good with him playing backup.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1007 » by Dalek » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:27 pm

navyblue wrote:raptors are not buying out dragic, end of discussion, raptors chose to have Miami pick up his 19 mil option.


I can see where you are coming from with that thought, but Toronto had no sway in that decision as I don't think you can be that collaborative to get a deal done, unless the tampering rumors are completely true.

Looking at it another way, Miami picked up the Dragic option to give them a back-up plan if the Lowry deal didn't work out. I just think Toronto put themselves in awkward position. They took on the Dragic contract assuming they could easily move him in a separate transaction.

Dallas had a ton of space and could have absorbed a Dragic deal, but they went for Bullock, and re-signed Hardaway Jr. rather than doing it once they were above the cap. Other teams like NO and Boston pivoted.

Toronto is now in scramble mode after Dragic came out with his comments. I guess he could still play out part of the year with Toronto, but a fair bit of damage has been done.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1008 » by navyblue » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:47 pm

Dalek wrote:
navyblue wrote:raptors are not buying out dragic, end of discussion, raptors chose to have Miami pick up his 19 mil option.


I can see where you are coming from with that thought, but Toronto had no sway in that decision as I don't think you can be that collaborative to get a deal done, unless the tampering rumors are completely true.

Looking at it another way, Miami picked up the Dragic option to give them a back-up plan if the Lowry deal didn't work out. I just think Toronto put themselves in awkward position. They took on the Dragic contract assuming they could easily move him in a separate transaction.

Dallas had a ton of space and could have absorbed a Dragic deal, but they went for Bullock, and re-signed Hardaway Jr. rather than doing it once they were above the cap. Other teams like NO and Boston pivoted.

Toronto is now in scramble mode after Dragic came out with his comments. I guess he could still play out part of the year with Toronto, but a fair bit of damage has been done.

of course the raptors told the heat to pick up the option, the raptors are the ones who chose to make it a s&t, the heat had the cap room to sign lowry outright after declining the option.
the dragic option pick up and the s&t report from woj came within the same hour.

my read on the sitiuation is, the heat came to agreement with lowry, then approached the raptors to see if they wanted to do s&t, which the raptors wanted to do, so the heat picked up the option on dragic.

every team tampers, the 2 teams that are being investigated are the 2 teams that did s&t right at the buzzer, which in itself are more difficult and the league will say impossible to have pulled off right off the bat. (the ball s&t was too blatant, atleast heat waited a day to make it official)
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1009 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:55 pm

Dalek wrote:
navyblue wrote:raptors are not buying out dragic, end of discussion, raptors chose to have Miami pick up his 19 mil option.


I can see where you are coming from with that thought, but Toronto had no sway in that decision as I don't think you can be that collaborative to get a deal done, unless the tampering rumors are completely true.

Looking at it another way, Miami picked up the Dragic option to give them a back-up plan if the Lowry deal didn't work out. I just think Toronto put themselves in awkward position. They took on the Dragic contract assuming they could easily move him in a separate transaction.

Dallas had a ton of space and could have absorbed a Dragic deal, but they went for Bullock, and re-signed Hardaway Jr. rather than doing it once they were above the cap. Other teams like NO and Boston pivoted.

Toronto is now in scramble mode after Dragic came out with his comments. I guess he could still play out part of the year with Toronto, but a fair bit of damage has been done.


The writing was on the wall for both teams and I don't think much thought went into it after it was known from all parties what direction each representatives were going in.

Miami was always gonna operate above the cap so they can resign their own guys and use the MLE
Miami knew they wanted Kyle, knew Kyle had interest and knew the parameters of what Kyle wanted well before FA even started without any tampering being needed.

Kyle knew where he wanted to go and for how much he wanted

Raptors were always gonna operate above the cap to facilitate a Lowry a deal as long as they weren't taking back big contracts with term.

U have to match salaries, so Dragic on a one year deal sealed the fate
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1010 » by Tor_Raps » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:16 pm

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:I still don't get how Powell Burke and Moses brown doesn't get it done on both sides.

We should be able to find a 3rd team to take Powell, Det/Indy/Hornets comes to mind.

Burke can iso score for 3million off the bench for us and Brown is a solid prospect.

A return of Precious/Moses Brown/Trey Burke for a FA Lowry is a win

Dallas is still left with Maxi + WCS + Boban + KP for the 5 spot & get their lead guard off the bench in Dragic


I am wondering the same thing. There better be an agreement in place for October when Brown is allowed to be traded.

Powell isn't even that bad of a player to hold onto. Maybe he can bounce back from his injury. It's not like we're stacked at the center position or that we're eating into our cap space since we're over anyways.

Let Precious spend a year in the G League and roll with Brown/Birch/Powell as our centers.


Precious in the G league? He would dominate to the point where it wouldn't be worth it. He has already played a ton in the L, I think I'm good with him playing backup.


He's played a ton? You realize he played 12MPG as a rookie last year and then racked up DNPs when the games mattered down the stretch, which includes the playoffs. This is for a team that had no big men after Bam and had to pick up Dedmon's corpse just to fill out their minutes.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1011 » by Dalek » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:17 pm

navyblue wrote:
Dalek wrote:
navyblue wrote:raptors are not buying out dragic, end of discussion, raptors chose to have Miami pick up his 19 mil option.


I can see where you are coming from with that thought, but Toronto had no sway in that decision as I don't think you can be that collaborative to get a deal done, unless the tampering rumors are completely true.

Looking at it another way, Miami picked up the Dragic option to give them a back-up plan if the Lowry deal didn't work out. I just think Toronto put themselves in awkward position. They took on the Dragic contract assuming they could easily move him in a separate transaction.

Dallas had a ton of space and could have absorbed a Dragic deal, but they went for Bullock, and re-signed Hardaway Jr. rather than doing it once they were above the cap. Other teams like NO and Boston pivoted.

Toronto is now in scramble mode after Dragic came out with his comments. I guess he could still play out part of the year with Toronto, but a fair bit of damage has been done.

of course the raptors told the heat to pick up the option, the raptors are the ones who chose to make it a s&t, the heat had the cap room to sign lowry outright after declining the option.
the dragic option pick up and the s&t report from woj came within the same hour.

every team tampers, the 2 teams that are being investigated are the 2 teams that did s&t right at the buzzer, which in itself are more difficult and the league will say impossible to have pulled off right off the bat. (the ball s&t was too blatant, atleast heat waited a day to make it official)


I guess it has to be the case given the investigation, but I thought Toronto's involvement was chipping in a few bucks to the Lowry cause as Miami couldn't sign him for the final number he got ; plus it allowed Miami to get other players to round out their roster.

Maybe both teams messed up. I just think if Toronto was going to keep Dragic they probably should have done some pre-work talking to his agent.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1012 » by navyblue » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:26 pm

Dalek wrote:
navyblue wrote:
Dalek wrote:
I can see where you are coming from with that thought, but Toronto had no sway in that decision as I don't think you can be that collaborative to get a deal done, unless the tampering rumors are completely true.

Looking at it another way, Miami picked up the Dragic option to give them a back-up plan if the Lowry deal didn't work out. I just think Toronto put themselves in awkward position. They took on the Dragic contract assuming they could easily move him in a separate transaction.

Dallas had a ton of space and could have absorbed a Dragic deal, but they went for Bullock, and re-signed Hardaway Jr. rather than doing it once they were above the cap. Other teams like NO and Boston pivoted.

Toronto is now in scramble mode after Dragic came out with his comments. I guess he could still play out part of the year with Toronto, but a fair bit of damage has been done.

of course the raptors told the heat to pick up the option, the raptors are the ones who chose to make it a s&t, the heat had the cap room to sign lowry outright after declining the option.
the dragic option pick up and the s&t report from woj came within the same hour.

every team tampers, the 2 teams that are being investigated are the 2 teams that did s&t right at the buzzer, which in itself are more difficult and the league will say impossible to have pulled off right off the bat. (the ball s&t was too blatant, atleast heat waited a day to make it official)


I guess it has to be the case given the investigation, but I thought Toronto's involvement was chipping in a few bucks to the Lowry cause as Miami couldn't sign him for the final number he got ; plus it allowed Miami to get other players to round out their roster.

Maybe both teams messed up. I just think if Toronto was going to keep Dragic they probably should have done some pre-work talking to his agent.

heat had the cap space to sign lowry outrigh, they had 27 mil cap space, could have made 29mil with a little cap limbo.

kyle lowry signed $26.9 first year, so no if and buts, heat had kyle lowry locked up in free agency s&t or no s&t.

why s&t for them, thats the question, the end result of the s&t doesnt look good for heat, the heat media/beat writers have made the same point after the dust settled.

they could have signed lowry, kept achiuwa and signed jeff green, vs kyle lowry + pj tucker.

basically the heat chose pj tucker > achiuwa + green (or someone like him, maybe even pj tucker would have signed for room mle)
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1013 » by C_Money » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:34 pm

youngRAPZ wrote:
C_Money wrote:Would you rather just buy him out and use the cap space next off-season on a Free Agent?

I’m starting to think that is the best option. I don’t want the Mavericks low level prospects.

There is no cap space next year.


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Not even with $19.4 million off the books? I guess some of that would go to re-signing Boucher.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1014 » by Dalek » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:42 pm

navyblue wrote:
Dalek wrote:
navyblue wrote:of course the raptors told the heat to pick up the option, the raptors are the ones who chose to make it a s&t, the heat had the cap room to sign lowry outright after declining the option.
the dragic option pick up and the s&t report from woj came within the same hour.

every team tampers, the 2 teams that are being investigated are the 2 teams that did s&t right at the buzzer, which in itself are more difficult and the league will say impossible to have pulled off right off the bat. (the ball s&t was too blatant, atleast heat waited a day to make it official)


I guess it has to be the case given the investigation, but I thought Toronto's involvement was chipping in a few bucks to the Lowry cause as Miami couldn't sign him for the final number he got ; plus it allowed Miami to get other players to round out their roster.

Maybe both teams messed up. I just think if Toronto was going to keep Dragic they probably should have done some pre-work talking to his agent.

heat had the cap space to sign lowry outrigh, they had 27 mil cap space, could have made 29mil with a little cap limbo.

kyle lowry signed $26.9 first year, so no if and buts, heat had kyle lowry locked up in free agency s&t or no s&t.

why s&t for them, thats the question, the end result of the s&t doesnt look good for heat, the heat media/beat writers have made the same point after the dust settled.

they could have signed lowry, kept achiuwa and signed jeff green, vs kyle lowry + pj tucker.


Given what you have presented, It is such a weird series of moves.

Dragic had a player option, so they would have had to get Dragic to agree to that, knowing he would be flipped to Toronto - unless Miami didn't inform him.

I think that Toronto always had Dallas in mind, but now everyone's in a holding pattern.

Considering that Milwaukee lost a pick with the Bogdanovic situation and didn't even get him, this could end up bad for both teams. Imagine Toronto losing a pick out of this.

On the flipside, if the league allows this to happen, there is nothing stopping Toronto from buying out Dragic and then doing a separate small deal for Brown from Dallas who would then sign Dragic.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1015 » by ItsDanger » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:44 pm

I value team chemistry a lot. Having this guy around is just a drag on the players. Keep him home and trade him later maybe. I'd prefer to cut my losses ASAP. Some trades just don't work out.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1016 » by Federalies » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:50 pm

C_Money wrote:
youngRAPZ wrote:
C_Money wrote:Would you rather just buy him out and use the cap space next off-season on a Free Agent?

I’m starting to think that is the best option. I don’t want the Mavericks low level prospects.

There is no cap space next year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not even with $19.4 million off the books? I guess some of that would go to re-signing Boucher.


With GTJ’s new deal and everyone else’s annual raises keeps us over the Cap I.e$115.6 mill for 11 players under contract. We’ll be able to use the MLE, the Bi-annual, our 2022 FR pick (assuming it’s not used in a trade), plus a few vet min deals will fill out the roster.

In short, this is our team + or - any players picked up by trade or the draft.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1017 » by Indeed » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:53 pm

Dalek wrote:
navyblue wrote:raptors are not buying out dragic, end of discussion, raptors chose to have Miami pick up his 19 mil option.


I can see where you are coming from with that thought, but Toronto had no sway in that decision as I don't think you can be that collaborative to get a deal done, unless the tampering rumors are completely true.

Looking at it another way, Miami picked up the Dragic option to give them a back-up plan if the Lowry deal didn't work out. I just think Toronto put themselves in awkward position. They took on the Dragic contract assuming they could easily move him in a separate transaction.

Dallas had a ton of space and could have absorbed a Dragic deal, but they went for Bullock, and re-signed Hardaway Jr. rather than doing it once they were above the cap. Other teams like NO and Boston pivoted.

Toronto is now in scramble mode after Dragic came out with his comments. I guess he could still play out part of the year with Toronto, but a fair bit of damage has been done.


Dragic is actually the best fit in our starting lineup, who can compensate VanVleet as the other combo guard, setup Siakam, kickout to OG or Trent
With Trent, we are missing a playmaker due to lack of vision. We may not get as much good looks from 3s, and we are leaving VanVleet to be the only primary ball handle who is not very efficient.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1018 » by Indeed » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:02 pm

Federalies wrote:
C_Money wrote:
youngRAPZ wrote:There is no cap space next year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not even with $19.4 million off the books? I guess some of that would go to re-signing Boucher.


With GTJ’s new deal and everyone else’s annual raises keeps us over the Cap I.e$115.6 mill for 11 players under contract. We’ll be able to use the MLE, the Bi-annual, our 2022 FR pick (assuming it’s not used in a trade), plus a few vet min deals will fill out the roster.

In short, this is our team + or - any players picked up by trade or the draft.


Not even with 19.4m off the books that we will have cap space.

We are above the tax even with Dragic expiring next year, and around 23m below the tax, which can be used for 2022 rookie contracts and re-sign Boucher (at most 20m - Dragic contract). If we are trading Dragic for 16m - 2years, we are pretty much not able to afford Boucher (or trade one of our bigger contract), maybe we can use the MLE instead.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1019 » by mademan » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:03 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:I still don't get how Powell Burke and Moses brown doesn't get it done on both sides.

We should be able to find a 3rd team to take Powell, Det/Indy/Hornets comes to mind.

Burke can iso score for 3million off the bench for us and Brown is a solid prospect.

A return of Precious/Moses Brown/Trey Burke for a FA Lowry is a win

Dallas is still left with Maxi + WCS + Boban + KP for the 5 spot & get their lead guard off the bench in Dragic


I dont see how that trade gets done, tbh. Brown is a fringe prospect, Raps dont have 2 roster spots and no team is gonna eat 2 years of Powell for nothing. Burke is also not needed and on a 2 year contract. Taking on those 2 guys for Brown is not near enough. I'd honestly rather play it out with Dragic and either just keep him if theres a playoff run or buy him out if we're not gonna make it. Powell is a big no, imo.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1020 » by Dalek » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:18 pm

Indeed wrote:
Dalek wrote:
navyblue wrote:raptors are not buying out dragic, end of discussion, raptors chose to have Miami pick up his 19 mil option.


I can see where you are coming from with that thought, but Toronto had no sway in that decision as I don't think you can be that collaborative to get a deal done, unless the tampering rumors are completely true.

Looking at it another way, Miami picked up the Dragic option to give them a back-up plan if the Lowry deal didn't work out. I just think Toronto put themselves in awkward position. They took on the Dragic contract assuming they could easily move him in a separate transaction.

Dallas had a ton of space and could have absorbed a Dragic deal, but they went for Bullock, and re-signed Hardaway Jr. rather than doing it once they were above the cap. Other teams like NO and Boston pivoted.

Toronto is now in scramble mode after Dragic came out with his comments. I guess he could still play out part of the year with Toronto, but a fair bit of damage has been done.


Dragic is actually the best fit in our starting lineup, who can compensate VanVleet as the other combo guard, setup Siakam, kickout to OG or Trent
With Trent, we are missing a playmaker due to lack of vision. We may not get as much good looks from 3s, and we are leaving VanVleet to be the only primary ball handle who is not very efficient.


I can see that Lowry lite role, but Dragic's minutes are down and trending that way, plus that is a very small team which kind of goes against the whole 6'9 positionless concept Nurse and Bobby are promoting in interviews.

My understanding is that the growing pains are about FVV, OG, Siakam playing the leadership roles. Dragic was not even mentioned by Masai as a piece to help Toronto.

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