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[Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted

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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1021 » by navyblue » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:25 pm

Dalek wrote:
navyblue wrote:
Dalek wrote:
I guess it has to be the case given the investigation, but I thought Toronto's involvement was chipping in a few bucks to the Lowry cause as Miami couldn't sign him for the final number he got ; plus it allowed Miami to get other players to round out their roster.

Maybe both teams messed up. I just think if Toronto was going to keep Dragic they probably should have done some pre-work talking to his agent.

heat had the cap space to sign lowry outrigh, they had 27 mil cap space, could have made 29mil with a little cap limbo.

kyle lowry signed $26.9 first year, so no if and buts, heat had kyle lowry locked up in free agency s&t or no s&t.

why s&t for them, thats the question, the end result of the s&t doesnt look good for heat, the heat media/beat writers have made the same point after the dust settled.

they could have signed lowry, kept achiuwa and signed jeff green, vs kyle lowry + pj tucker.


Given what you have presented, It is such a weird series of moves.

Dragic had a player option, so they would have had to get Dragic to agree to that, knowing he would be flipped to Toronto - unless Miami didn't inform him.

I think that Toronto always had Dallas in mind, but now everyone's in a holding pattern.

Considering that Milwaukee lost a pick with the Bogdanovic situation and didn't even get him, this could end up bad for both teams. Imagine Toronto losing a pick out of this.

On the flipside, if the league allows this to happen, there is nothing stopping Toronto from buying out Dragic and then doing a separate small deal for Brown from Dallas who would then sign Dragic.

it wasnt a player option, it was a team option. heat declined iggy option in the morning. picked up dragic option in the afternoon and an hour later woj reported that lowry s&t to heat deal.

the investigation involves the raptors but its focused on the heat side. i have no worries that the raptors will be docked anything. kings werent docked anything, kings like raptors were bystanders who happened to be on the scene of the tampering.

if dallas was the trade option, they would have looped the mavs into the trade and made a 3 way trade, the trade wasnt official for a week after it was announced, lots of other moves were expanded. the westbrook trade went from 2 team to 5 team, lonzo ball trade got looped into another trade with hornets.

raptors explored the mavs option like every other option and didnt find anything of liking, and are going to take it to the deadline.

any trade like the one suggest with the mavs will be investigated by the league and voided i can guarantee you, can you imagine the chaos it would cause around the league, if you could circumvent the salary cap like that.

oh lakers cant match salaries in a trade, ok the other team just waives the player and the lakers do a side trade.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1022 » by Indeed » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:31 pm

Dalek wrote:
Indeed wrote:
Dalek wrote:
I can see where you are coming from with that thought, but Toronto had no sway in that decision as I don't think you can be that collaborative to get a deal done, unless the tampering rumors are completely true.

Looking at it another way, Miami picked up the Dragic option to give them a back-up plan if the Lowry deal didn't work out. I just think Toronto put themselves in awkward position. They took on the Dragic contract assuming they could easily move him in a separate transaction.

Dallas had a ton of space and could have absorbed a Dragic deal, but they went for Bullock, and re-signed Hardaway Jr. rather than doing it once they were above the cap. Other teams like NO and Boston pivoted.

Toronto is now in scramble mode after Dragic came out with his comments. I guess he could still play out part of the year with Toronto, but a fair bit of damage has been done.


Dragic is actually the best fit in our starting lineup, who can compensate VanVleet as the other combo guard, setup Siakam, kickout to OG or Trent
With Trent, we are missing a playmaker due to lack of vision. We may not get as much good looks from 3s, and we are leaving VanVleet to be the only primary ball handle who is not very efficient.


I can see that Lowry lite role, but Dragic's minutes are down and trending that way, plus that is a very small team which kind of goes against the whole 6'9 positionless concept Nurse and Bobby are promoting in interviews.

My understanding is that the growing pains are about FVV, OG, Siakam playing the leadership roles. Dragic was not even mentioned by Masai as a piece to help Toronto.


Growing pains is after Dragic said he preferred Dallas.

As for positionless, Dragic is a big PG who is the size of SG, so he is a good fit in that strategy. But I think it is best for Nurse to experience different lineup to see if Dragic (big playmaker) is what we needed.

I think the original thought is to try Dragic (agree to take Dragic as S&T) and see if his skillset is what we needed (along with other core players), but since Dragic said he may want to play for Dallas (after the S&T), we changed our approach and rather keep the focus with our existing core.

Regardless, at this point, if we are trading Dragic for any longer contract, we might have to trade Boucher as well, since we cannot keep him. As for Trent, I don't see him fit with us, because we have no player who can create and dish out assists, so I won't be surprised we may look to package Trent and Boucher (or more) for upgrade at trade deadline.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1023 » by Dalek » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:42 pm

Indeed wrote:
Dalek wrote:
Indeed wrote:
Dragic is actually the best fit in our starting lineup, who can compensate VanVleet as the other combo guard, setup Siakam, kickout to OG or Trent
With Trent, we are missing a playmaker due to lack of vision. We may not get as much good looks from 3s, and we are leaving VanVleet to be the only primary ball handle who is not very efficient.


I can see that Lowry lite role, but Dragic's minutes are down and trending that way, plus that is a very small team which kind of goes against the whole 6'9 positionless concept Nurse and Bobby are promoting in interviews.

My understanding is that the growing pains are about FVV, OG, Siakam playing the leadership roles. Dragic was not even mentioned by Masai as a piece to help Toronto.


Growing pains is after Dragic said he preferred Dallas.

As for positionless, Dragic is a big PG who is the size of SG, so he is a good fit in that strategy. But I think it is best for Nurse to experience different lineup to see if Dragic (big playmaker) is what we needed.

I think the original thought is to try Dragic (agree to take Dragic as S&T) and see if his skillset is what we needed (along with other core players), but since Dragic said he may want to play for Dallas (after the S&T), we changed our approach and rather keep the focus with our existing core.

Regardless, at this point, if we are trading Dragic for any longer contract, we might have to trade Boucher as well, since we cannot keep him. As for Trent, I don't see him fit with us, because we have no player who can create and dish out assists, so I won't be surprised we may look to package Trent and Boucher (or more) for upgrade at trade deadline.


Good points. I completely agree about Trent in particular. Our MO is defensive IQ, size and playmaking and he fits none of that. He is on a good deal for a team looking to deal an unhappy star. Trent is a young prospect who can light it up. A team in need of shooters might want that.

Maybe someone like Beal or Simmons might be something we pursue using Trent and Boucher as key pieces - Dragic as trade ballast.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1024 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:04 pm

mademan wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:I still don't get how Powell Burke and Moses brown doesn't get it done on both sides.

We should be able to find a 3rd team to take Powell, Det/Indy/Hornets comes to mind.

Burke can iso score for 3million off the bench for us and Brown is a solid prospect.

A return of Precious/Moses Brown/Trey Burke for a FA Lowry is a win

Dallas is still left with Maxi + WCS + Boban + KP for the 5 spot & get their lead guard off the bench in Dragic


I dont see how that trade gets done, tbh. Brown is a fringe prospect, Raps dont have 2 roster spots and no team is gonna eat 2 years of Powell for nothing. Burke is also not needed and on a 2 year contract. Taking on those 2 guys for Brown is not near enough. I'd honestly rather play it out with Dragic and either just keep him if theres a playoff run or buy him out if we're not gonna make it. Powell is a big no, imo.


Charlotte / Det / Indy could all take Powell for similar contract at less yrs. Powell isn't pure scrubbish, he'd be welcomed on those teams imo.

Burke at 3 mill for 2 yrs is hardly a problem for anyone

And Moses Brown is the exact type of value we should extract from a dragic trade
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1025 » by mademan » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:10 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:
mademan wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:I still don't get how Powell Burke and Moses brown doesn't get it done on both sides.

We should be able to find a 3rd team to take Powell, Det/Indy/Hornets comes to mind.

Burke can iso score for 3million off the bench for us and Brown is a solid prospect.

A return of Precious/Moses Brown/Trey Burke for a FA Lowry is a win

Dallas is still left with Maxi + WCS + Boban + KP for the 5 spot & get their lead guard off the bench in Dragic


I dont see how that trade gets done, tbh. Brown is a fringe prospect, Raps dont have 2 roster spots and no team is gonna eat 2 years of Powell for nothing. Burke is also not needed and on a 2 year contract. Taking on those 2 guys for Brown is not near enough. I'd honestly rather play it out with Dragic and either just keep him if theres a playoff run or buy him out if we're not gonna make it. Powell is a big no, imo.


Charlotte / Det / Indy could all take Powell for similar contract at less yrs. Powell isn't pure scrubbish, he'd be welcomed on those teams imo.

Burke at 3 mill for 2 yrs is hardly a problem for anyone

And Moses Brown is the exact type of value we should extract from a dragic trade


none of them would take him for nothing. He's a meh backup big who has guaranteed MLE money for 2 years. I think Birch is overpaid for what he got and he's the same level of player; every team would ask for an asset to take him.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1026 » by Indeed » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:28 pm

mademan wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:
mademan wrote:
I dont see how that trade gets done, tbh. Brown is a fringe prospect, Raps dont have 2 roster spots and no team is gonna eat 2 years of Powell for nothing. Burke is also not needed and on a 2 year contract. Taking on those 2 guys for Brown is not near enough. I'd honestly rather play it out with Dragic and either just keep him if theres a playoff run or buy him out if we're not gonna make it. Powell is a big no, imo.


Charlotte / Det / Indy could all take Powell for similar contract at less yrs. Powell isn't pure scrubbish, he'd be welcomed on those teams imo.

Burke at 3 mill for 2 yrs is hardly a problem for anyone

And Moses Brown is the exact type of value we should extract from a dragic trade


none of them would take him for nothing. He's a meh backup big who has guaranteed MLE money for 2 years. I think Birch is overpaid for what he got and he's the same level of player; every team would ask for an asset to take him.


I don't think we are over paying, nor we cannot trade Powell. It just other teams may not have a need and wouldn't pay for the full price. Most likely injuries or fits may change the approach of some teams, which would be at the trade deadline if we want better fair value.

But I see your concern that they are Stanley Johnson / McCaw level, where they have no value (or too many of these players). I think Powell being able to stretch the floor will have some value. Burke has not much value, which is why I don't want to take him.

If we trade Dragic at the beginning of the season, I believe we can still flip those players at deadline, or we trade Dragic near trade deadline and do a 3 teams trade. I am more favouring trading him at deadline, but if Dragic is not playing for us, we should trade him before the season.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1027 » by mademan » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:41 pm

Indeed wrote:
mademan wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:
Charlotte / Det / Indy could all take Powell for similar contract at less yrs. Powell isn't pure scrubbish, he'd be welcomed on those teams imo.

Burke at 3 mill for 2 yrs is hardly a problem for anyone

And Moses Brown is the exact type of value we should extract from a dragic trade


none of them would take him for nothing. He's a meh backup big who has guaranteed MLE money for 2 years. I think Birch is overpaid for what he got and he's the same level of player; every team would ask for an asset to take him.


I don't think we are over paying, nor we cannot trade Powell. It just other teams may not have a need and wouldn't pay for the full price. Most likely injuries or fits may change the approach of some teams, which would be at the trade deadline if we want better fair value.

But I see your concern that they are Stanley Johnson / McCaw level, where they have no value (or too many of these players). I think Powell being able to stretch the floor will have some value. Burke has not much value, which is why I don't want to take him.

If we trade Dragic at the beginning of the season, I believe we can still flip those players at deadline, or we trade Dragic near trade deadline and do a 3 teams trade. I am more favouring trading him at deadline, but if Dragic is not playing for us, we should trade him before the season.


maybe. I legit cant imagine any team just taking Powell. Cap space costs money, and few teams need a backup rim running C. Dallas is in need of a big and he doesnt get minutes there

And Powell cant stretch the floor. I mean ya, he puts up a single 3/game, but he legit has 1 season shooting over 30% from 3. I think you guys think Powell is something he isnt. Dallas has no bigs and KP misses a chit ton of games and yet he still can barely crack the rotation. What team would take him on?
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1028 » by Federalies » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:57 pm

So who still has an “Athletic” subscription? Any sort of Dragic related summary would be much appreciated! If you want to throw in anything interesting related to the Simmons part I wouldn’t complain either! :lol: :nod:

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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1029 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:18 pm

mademan wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:
mademan wrote:
I dont see how that trade gets done, tbh. Brown is a fringe prospect, Raps dont have 2 roster spots and no team is gonna eat 2 years of Powell for nothing. Burke is also not needed and on a 2 year contract. Taking on those 2 guys for Brown is not near enough. I'd honestly rather play it out with Dragic and either just keep him if theres a playoff run or buy him out if we're not gonna make it. Powell is a big no, imo.


Charlotte / Det / Indy could all take Powell for similar contract at less yrs. Powell isn't pure scrubbish, he'd be welcomed on those teams imo.

Burke at 3 mill for 2 yrs is hardly a problem for anyone

And Moses Brown is the exact type of value we should extract from a dragic trade


none of them would take him for nothing. He's a meh backup big who has guaranteed MLE money for 2 years. I think Birch is overpaid for what he got and he's the same level of player; every team would ask for an asset to take him.


Indy would take Powell for Lamb I think, maybe add a 2nd if needed
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1030 » by OakleyDokely » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:23 am






But but but Fischer said buyout was coming...
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1031 » by C_Money » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:31 am

OakleyDokely wrote:
Spoiler:





But but but Fischer said buyout was coming...


Good to see! And he’s here earlier than he has to be.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1032 » by alienchild » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:41 am

OakleyDokely wrote:




Butt butt butt Fischer said buyout was coming...


FTFY
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1033 » by Tor_Raps » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:17 am

alienchild wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:




Butt butt butt Fischer said buyout was coming...


FTFY


Dammit... I hoped there was a trade pending with the Mavs. Guess not :(
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1034 » by Federalies » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:53 am

OakleyDokely wrote:




But but but Fischer said buyout was coming...


Glad he’s sticking to his word Re: being a professional but is it just me or did the Rookies get better rooms and swag? :o :o

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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1035 » by Apz » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:36 am

Tor_Raps wrote:
alienchild wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:




Butt butt butt Fischer said buyout was coming...


FTFY


Dammit... I hoped there was a trade pending with the Mavs. Guess not :(


Could be the picture for the ebay sale. "Brand new...."
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1036 » by raptorforlife88 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:01 pm

If he's already here, that should really put to rest any buyout talk. If there was discussion of a buyout there would literally be no point to him being in the city this early.
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1037 » by PerfectJab » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:19 pm

Dalek wrote:
Indeed wrote:
Dalek wrote:
I can see that Lowry lite role, but Dragic's minutes are down and trending that way, plus that is a very small team which kind of goes against the whole 6'9 positionless concept Nurse and Bobby are promoting in interviews.

My understanding is that the growing pains are about FVV, OG, Siakam playing the leadership roles. Dragic was not even mentioned by Masai as a piece to help Toronto.


Growing pains is after Dragic said he preferred Dallas.

As for positionless, Dragic is a big PG who is the size of SG, so he is a good fit in that strategy. But I think it is best for Nurse to experience different lineup to see if Dragic (big playmaker) is what we needed.

I think the original thought is to try Dragic (agree to take Dragic as S&T) and see if his skillset is what we needed (along with other core players), but since Dragic said he may want to play for Dallas (after the S&T), we changed our approach and rather keep the focus with our existing core.

Regardless, at this point, if we are trading Dragic for any longer contract, we might have to trade Boucher as well, since we cannot keep him. As for Trent, I don't see him fit with us, because we have no player who can create and dish out assists, so I won't be surprised we may look to package Trent and Boucher (or more) for upgrade at trade deadline.


Good points. I completely agree about Trent in particular. Our MO is defensive IQ, size and playmaking and he fits none of that. He is on a good deal for a team looking to deal an unhappy star. Trent is a young prospect who can light it up. A team in need of shooters might want that.

Maybe someone like Beal or Simmons might be something we pursue using Trent and Boucher as key pieces - Dragic as trade ballast.


Trent and Boucher as key pieces isn't landing you Beal or Simmons :lol:
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1038 » by Indeed » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:19 pm

PerfectJab wrote:
Dalek wrote:
Indeed wrote:
Growing pains is after Dragic said he preferred Dallas.

As for positionless, Dragic is a big PG who is the size of SG, so he is a good fit in that strategy. But I think it is best for Nurse to experience different lineup to see if Dragic (big playmaker) is what we needed.

I think the original thought is to try Dragic (agree to take Dragic as S&T) and see if his skillset is what we needed (along with other core players), but since Dragic said he may want to play for Dallas (after the S&T), we changed our approach and rather keep the focus with our existing core.

Regardless, at this point, if we are trading Dragic for any longer contract, we might have to trade Boucher as well, since we cannot keep him. As for Trent, I don't see him fit with us, because we have no player who can create and dish out assists, so I won't be surprised we may look to package Trent and Boucher (or more) for upgrade at trade deadline.


Good points. I completely agree about Trent in particular. Our MO is defensive IQ, size and playmaking and he fits none of that. He is on a good deal for a team looking to deal an unhappy star. Trent is a young prospect who can light it up. A team in need of shooters might want that.

Maybe someone like Beal or Simmons might be something we pursue using Trent and Boucher as key pieces - Dragic as trade ballast.


Trent and Boucher as key pieces isn't landing you Beal or Simmons :lol:


What about Brogdon? Allen?
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1039 » by HangTime » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:27 pm

Apz wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
alienchild wrote:
FTFY


Dammit... I hoped there was a trade pending with the Mavs. Guess not :(


Could be the picture for the ebay sale. "Brand new...."



How much for that access card?
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Re: [Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted 

Post#1040 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:42 pm

Showing up early = pro.

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