ImageImageImageImageImage

Updated salary situation for 2021-2022.

Moderators: Alfred, 7 Footer, Reeko, lebron stopper, niQ, Morris_Shatford, DG88, gojoorange

Masai4PM
Junior
Posts: 261
And1: 711
Joined: Aug 10, 2020
       

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#101 » by Masai4PM » Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:32 am

Looks like Yuta and probably Wainwright get the final roster spots
User avatar
bluerap23
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,216
And1: 4,088
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
   

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#102 » by bluerap23 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:34 pm

Reeko wrote:It's gross that we're paying Trent more than OG. I hope he comes in this season and changes our minds about him.


We aren't. OG is making more than Trent. The contract originally announced for Trent was inaccurate.
Image
DreamTeam09
RealGM
Posts: 10,525
And1: 4,860
Joined: Jan 06, 2009
Location: Scarborough
 

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#103 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:42 pm

bluerap23 wrote:Updated with Svi

Image


So we'll be under the tax to start the season?
Image

In Raptor Ball I Trust
User avatar
bluerap23
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,216
And1: 4,088
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
   

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#104 » by bluerap23 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:33 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:
bluerap23 wrote:Updated with Svi

Image


So we'll be under the tax to start the season?


Unlikely. Currently we only have 12 guaranteed contracts. If we want to stay under it would mean breaking camp without 15 guys. It is far more likely we start over the tax. It will be pretty easy to get under by end of season though. Dragic trade will facilitate this, but even if they are unable to trade him we could easily make another deal to get under.

It is a little interesting that they were willing to sign Svi to a guaranteed deal even though we had already committed some salary to 15 guys (now 16). When you are walking this close to the tax a 200K guarantee isn't nothing.
Image
User avatar
bluerap23
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,216
And1: 4,088
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
   

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#105 » by bluerap23 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:41 pm

gp2015 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
vulture wrote:Think about this for a moment, would you rather have Norm for 5 years at 18 mill or Gary at 17 for 2 years as a prove it contract? I'll take the Gary contract tbh.
He didn't play well defensively when he came over but he's actually above average on that end and this year will show that.


Enough of that intelligent talk.


Except that it's not just a two year contract. It's 2+1 player option.

If Trent plays badly, he's going to pick up the option and we're stuck paying for the bad contract.
If he plays above expectations, then he opts out and either we will have to overpay to re-sign him to a new contract or lose him.

Intelligent talk that conveniently skips the most important details and the worst part of the contract.....

Back to school you go.


Quick question:
When was the last time that Masai handed out an extension that looked like bad value by the end of the contract?
Image
vulture
Veteran
Posts: 2,661
And1: 736
Joined: Oct 04, 2002
Location: At the Border

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#106 » by vulture » Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:57 pm

bluerap23 wrote:
gp2015 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
Enough of that intelligent talk.


Except that it's not just a two year contract. It's 2+1 player option.

If Trent plays badly, he's going to pick up the option and we're stuck paying for the bad contract.
If he plays above expectations, then he opts out and either we will have to overpay to re-sign him to a new contract or lose him.

Intelligent talk that conveniently skips the most important details and the worst part of the contract.....

Back to school you go.


Quick question:
When was the last time that Masai handed out an extension that looked like bad value by the end of the contract?


At one point a ton of people here were killing him for the Norm extension and of course that turned out to be crazy good value.
gp2015
RealGM
Posts: 10,320
And1: 6,935
Joined: Apr 13, 2007
Location: Toronto
     

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#107 » by gp2015 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:44 pm

bluerap23 wrote:
gp2015 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
Enough of that intelligent talk.


Except that it's not just a two year contract. It's 2+1 player option.

If Trent plays badly, he's going to pick up the option and we're stuck paying for the bad contract.
If he plays above expectations, then he opts out and either we will have to overpay to re-sign him to a new contract or lose him.

Intelligent talk that conveniently skips the most important details and the worst part of the contract.....

Back to school you go.


Quick question:
When was the last time that Masai handed out an extension that looked like bad value by the end of the contract?


Off the top of my head, Derozan.

It wasn't a horrible contract but every team knew about his limitations, especially in the playoffs. A few years into it, Masai was already looking to get rid of him.

I'm sure the Spurs were looking to move him earlier to start the rebuild but didn't have many offers.
"I'm doing what I love to do. So if I can never walk again because of what I love to do, that's a chance I'll take. I'll die on the court." - Alvin Williams
navyblue
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,975
And1: 5,194
Joined: Nov 04, 2013
 

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#108 » by navyblue » Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:04 pm

gp2015 wrote:
bluerap23 wrote:
gp2015 wrote:
Except that it's not just a two year contract. It's 2+1 player option.

If Trent plays badly, he's going to pick up the option and we're stuck paying for the bad contract.
If he plays above expectations, then he opts out and either we will have to overpay to re-sign him to a new contract or lose him.

Intelligent talk that conveniently skips the most important details and the worst part of the contract.....

Back to school you go.


Quick question:
When was the last time that Masai handed out an extension that looked like bad value by the end of the contract?


Off the top of my head, Derozan.

It wasn't a horrible contract but every team knew about his limitations, especially in the playoffs. A few years into it, Masai was already looking to get rid of him.

I'm sure the Spurs were looking to move him earlier to start the rebuild but didn't have many offers.

the reason demar was looking to be moved wasnt his salary, it was his game style, fit. his new contract with bulls has a higher avv than the contract signed with raptors.
User avatar
LBJKB24MJ23
RealGM
Posts: 14,968
And1: 14,317
Joined: Jan 22, 2014
     

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#109 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:15 pm

navyblue wrote:
gp2015 wrote:
bluerap23 wrote:
Quick question:
When was the last time that Masai handed out an extension that looked like bad value by the end of the contract?


Off the top of my head, Derozan.

It wasn't a horrible contract but every team knew about his limitations, especially in the playoffs. A few years into it, Masai was already looking to get rid of him.

I'm sure the Spurs were looking to move him earlier to start the rebuild but didn't have many offers.

the reason demar was looking to be moved wasnt his salary, it was his game style, fit. his new contract with bulls has a higher avv than the contract signed with raptors.


I thought Raptors did pretty well considering they DIDN'T give Derozan a full max. imho, if it was any other GM, Derozan would have gotten the max. every role player out there that is a second fiddle is getting a max deal nowadays.
gp2015
RealGM
Posts: 10,320
And1: 6,935
Joined: Apr 13, 2007
Location: Toronto
     

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#110 » by gp2015 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:50 pm

navyblue wrote:
gp2015 wrote:
bluerap23 wrote:
Quick question:
When was the last time that Masai handed out an extension that looked like bad value by the end of the contract?


Off the top of my head, Derozan.

It wasn't a horrible contract but every team knew about his limitations, especially in the playoffs. A few years into it, Masai was already looking to get rid of him.

I'm sure the Spurs were looking to move him earlier to start the rebuild but didn't have many offers.

the reason demar was looking to be moved wasnt his salary, it was his game style, fit. his new contract with bulls has a higher avv than the contract signed with raptors.


It was both. He was getting paid a lot of money at the time but had too many major limitations. He wasn't good enough to be your top two player for a contending team.

About the Bulls contract, it's pretty universal opinion that they overpaid and that was one of the worst contracts handed out during free agency. I woud take it as an example of a team desparate to sign a big name.
"I'm doing what I love to do. So if I can never walk again because of what I love to do, that's a chance I'll take. I'll die on the court." - Alvin Williams
gp2015
RealGM
Posts: 10,320
And1: 6,935
Joined: Apr 13, 2007
Location: Toronto
     

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#111 » by gp2015 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:52 pm

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
navyblue wrote:
gp2015 wrote:
Off the top of my head, Derozan.

It wasn't a horrible contract but every team knew about his limitations, especially in the playoffs. A few years into it, Masai was already looking to get rid of him.

I'm sure the Spurs were looking to move him earlier to start the rebuild but didn't have many offers.

the reason demar was looking to be moved wasnt his salary, it was his game style, fit. his new contract with bulls has a higher avv than the contract signed with raptors.


I thought Raptors did pretty well considering they DIDN'T give Derozan a full max. imho, if it was any other GM, Derozan would have gotten the max. every role player out there that is a second fiddle is getting a max deal nowadays.


Problem is he was exposed in the playoffs so he can't be your first or second option and should not be paid anywhere close to one. After the consecutive playffs failures here, his contract was not looking very good.
"I'm doing what I love to do. So if I can never walk again because of what I love to do, that's a chance I'll take. I'll die on the court." - Alvin Williams
User avatar
LBJKB24MJ23
RealGM
Posts: 14,968
And1: 14,317
Joined: Jan 22, 2014
     

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#112 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:07 pm

gp2015 wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
navyblue wrote:the reason demar was looking to be moved wasnt his salary, it was his game style, fit. his new contract with bulls has a higher avv than the contract signed with raptors.


I thought Raptors did pretty well considering they DIDN'T give Derozan a full max. imho, if it was any other GM, Derozan would have gotten the max. every role player out there that is a second fiddle is getting a max deal nowadays.


Problem is he was exposed in the playoffs so he can't be your first or second option and should not be paid anywhere close to one. After the consecutive playffs failures here, his contract was not looking very good.


Derozan would have gotten that contract anywhere else. So it’s not a bad contract if everyone would have given him the same amount of money (or more).

I think factoring regular season play, Derozan was deserving of that contract as well. No one short pays a guy because he can’t perform in the playoffs as every playoff series/season is so wildly different.

And I don’t think it’s fair to say that EVERYONE knew he was exposed in the playoffs moving forward. Every **** year, this forum would go: THIS IS THE YEAR. Or the narrative that they would have gotten to the finals WITH Derozan (the year Lebron left the eastern conference/ championship year)

You can go back in this forum and check out those years. Everyone was hopeful. I don’t think anyone will say Beal doesn’t deserve a max contract either. So it’s a moot point about Derozans contract as bad. Not that you’re saying it is bad or horrible as you stated above. You just can’t make a case that the Derozan extension was bad because of bad playoff performances. He got paid to be a regular season star player.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
gp2015
RealGM
Posts: 10,320
And1: 6,935
Joined: Apr 13, 2007
Location: Toronto
     

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#113 » by gp2015 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:15 pm

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
gp2015 wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
I thought Raptors did pretty well considering they DIDN'T give Derozan a full max. imho, if it was any other GM, Derozan would have gotten the max. every role player out there that is a second fiddle is getting a max deal nowadays.


Problem is he was exposed in the playoffs so he can't be your first or second option and should not be paid anywhere close to one. After the consecutive playffs failures here, his contract was not looking very good.


Derozan would have gotten that contract anywhere else. So it’s not a bad contract if everyone would have given him the same amount of money (or more).

I think factoring regular season play, Derozan was deserving of that contract as well. No one short pays a guy because he can’t perform in the playoffs as every playoff series/season is so wildly different.

And I don’t think it’s fair to say that EVERYONE knew he was exposed in the playoffs moving forward. Every **** year, this forum would go: THIS IS THE YEAR. Or the narrative that they would have gotten to the finals WITH Derozan (the year Lebron left the eastern conference/ championship year)

You can go back in this forum and check out those years. Everyone was hopeful. I don’t think anyone will say Beal doesn’t deserve a max contract either. So it’s a moot point about Derozans contract as bad. Not that you’re saying it is bad or horrible as you stated above. You just can’t make a case that the Derozan extension was bad because of bad playoff performances. He got paid to be a regular season star player.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When he signed that contract yes, I'm sure that a lot of teams would have offered that contract. A couple of years in, I'm sure a lot of teams were hesitant to pay him that much money for someone who can't be a top option. We were looking to get rid of it ourselves. Near the end of the contract, I don't think many teams were willing to take on his contract.

The reason I mention this is because the original question was which contract that Masai handed out looked like a bad value contract by the end of the contract.

I don't think it was a horrible contract by any means but it's wasn't considered a good contract by the end of it.
"I'm doing what I love to do. So if I can never walk again because of what I love to do, that's a chance I'll take. I'll die on the court." - Alvin Williams
User avatar
LBJKB24MJ23
RealGM
Posts: 14,968
And1: 14,317
Joined: Jan 22, 2014
     

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#114 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:22 pm

gp2015 wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
gp2015 wrote:
Problem is he was exposed in the playoffs so he can't be your first or second option and should not be paid anywhere close to one. After the consecutive playffs failures here, his contract was not looking very good.


Derozan would have gotten that contract anywhere else. So it’s not a bad contract if everyone would have given him the same amount of money (or more).

I think factoring regular season play, Derozan was deserving of that contract as well. No one short pays a guy because he can’t perform in the playoffs as every playoff series/season is so wildly different.

And I don’t think it’s fair to say that EVERYONE knew he was exposed in the playoffs moving forward. Every **** year, this forum would go: THIS IS THE YEAR. Or the narrative that they would have gotten to the finals WITH Derozan (the year Lebron left the eastern conference/ championship year)

You can go back in this forum and check out those years. Everyone was hopeful. I don’t think anyone will say Beal doesn’t deserve a max contract either. So it’s a moot point about Derozans contract as bad. Not that you’re saying it is bad or horrible as you stated above. You just can’t make a case that the Derozan extension was bad because of bad playoff performances. He got paid to be a regular season star player.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When he signed that contract yes, I'm sure that a lot of teams would have offered that contract. A couple of years in, I'm sure a lot of teams were hesitant to pay him that much money for someone who can't be a top option. We were looking to get rid of it ourselves. Near the end of the contract, I don't think many teams were willing to take on his contract.

The reason I mention this is because the original question was which contract that Masai handed out looked like a bad value contract by the end of the contract.

I don't think it was a horrible contract by any means but it's wasn't considered a good contract by the end of it.


I think he would have continued to put up all star numbers and be an all star, at least in the Eastern Conference.

so no, don't think it would have been a 'bad' contract at all. we still have an all star at the end of the day and he would have continued to be voted in by Raptors fans.
gp2015
RealGM
Posts: 10,320
And1: 6,935
Joined: Apr 13, 2007
Location: Toronto
     

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#115 » by gp2015 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:42 pm

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
gp2015 wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
Derozan would have gotten that contract anywhere else. So it’s not a bad contract if everyone would have given him the same amount of money (or more).

I think factoring regular season play, Derozan was deserving of that contract as well. No one short pays a guy because he can’t perform in the playoffs as every playoff series/season is so wildly different.

And I don’t think it’s fair to say that EVERYONE knew he was exposed in the playoffs moving forward. Every **** year, this forum would go: THIS IS THE YEAR. Or the narrative that they would have gotten to the finals WITH Derozan (the year Lebron left the eastern conference/ championship year)

You can go back in this forum and check out those years. Everyone was hopeful. I don’t think anyone will say Beal doesn’t deserve a max contract either. So it’s a moot point about Derozans contract as bad. Not that you’re saying it is bad or horrible as you stated above. You just can’t make a case that the Derozan extension was bad because of bad playoff performances. He got paid to be a regular season star player.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When he signed that contract yes, I'm sure that a lot of teams would have offered that contract. A couple of years in, I'm sure a lot of teams were hesitant to pay him that much money for someone who can't be a top option. We were looking to get rid of it ourselves. Near the end of the contract, I don't think many teams were willing to take on his contract.

The reason I mention this is because the original question was which contract that Masai handed out looked like a bad value contract by the end of the contract.

I don't think it was a horrible contract by any means but it's wasn't considered a good contract by the end of it.


I think he would have continued to put up all star numbers and be an all star, at least in the Eastern Conference.

so no, don't think it would have been a 'bad' contract at all. we still have an all star at the end of the day and he would have continued to be voted in by Raptors fans.


Agreed, he would have continued to put up all star type numbers here but we wouldn't have challenged for a championship and by the end of the contract, it would have been pretty difficult to move.

I would say it's not a "bad" contract but wasn't considered good value at the end.

Most people would not consider his new contract a good contract, even though he will continue to put up decent numbers.
"I'm doing what I love to do. So if I can never walk again because of what I love to do, that's a chance I'll take. I'll die on the court." - Alvin Williams
User avatar
LBJKB24MJ23
RealGM
Posts: 14,968
And1: 14,317
Joined: Jan 22, 2014
     

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#116 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:52 pm

gp2015 wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
gp2015 wrote:
When he signed that contract yes, I'm sure that a lot of teams would have offered that contract. A couple of years in, I'm sure a lot of teams were hesitant to pay him that much money for someone who can't be a top option. We were looking to get rid of it ourselves. Near the end of the contract, I don't think many teams were willing to take on his contract.

The reason I mention this is because the original question was which contract that Masai handed out looked like a bad value contract by the end of the contract.

I don't think it was a horrible contract by any means but it's wasn't considered a good contract by the end of it.


I think he would have continued to put up all star numbers and be an all star, at least in the Eastern Conference.

so no, don't think it would have been a 'bad' contract at all. we still have an all star at the end of the day and he would have continued to be voted in by Raptors fans.


Agreed, he would have continued to put up all star type numbers here but we wouldn't have challenged for a championship and by the end of the contract, it would have been pretty difficult to move.

I would say it's not a "bad" contract but wasn't considered good value at the end.

Most people would not consider his new contract a good contract, even though he will continue to put up decent numbers.


Tell that to the people who thought they would have went to the NBA Finals - with Derozan - because the only thing stopping them was Lebron lol.

Imho at the end, that contract was good enough - considering so many larger contracts were given out, for players in the same tier as Derozan was in when he first got that near max contract.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
Indeed
RealGM
Posts: 17,077
And1: 1,784
Joined: Aug 21, 2009

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#117 » by Indeed » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:03 pm

bluerap23 wrote:
gp2015 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
Enough of that intelligent talk.


Except that it's not just a two year contract. It's 2+1 player option.

If Trent plays badly, he's going to pick up the option and we're stuck paying for the bad contract.
If he plays above expectations, then he opts out and either we will have to overpay to re-sign him to a new contract or lose him.

Intelligent talk that conveniently skips the most important details and the worst part of the contract.....

Back to school you go.


Quick question:
When was the last time that Masai handed out an extension that looked like bad value by the end of the contract?


Baynes, Stanley Johnson, McCaw, ...
(People got short memories?)
User avatar
bluerap23
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,216
And1: 4,088
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
   

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#118 » by bluerap23 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:40 am

Indeed wrote:
bluerap23 wrote:
gp2015 wrote:
Except that it's not just a two year contract. It's 2+1 player option.

If Trent plays badly, he's going to pick up the option and we're stuck paying for the bad contract.
If he plays above expectations, then he opts out and either we will have to overpay to re-sign him to a new contract or lose him.

Intelligent talk that conveniently skips the most important details and the worst part of the contract.....

Back to school you go.


Quick question:
When was the last time that Masai handed out an extension that looked like bad value by the end of the contract?


Baynes, Stanley Johnson, McCaw, ...
(People got short memories?)


Baynes and Johnson were free agent contracts, they were not extensions. McCaw was a bad extension but 4 million/year is not a significant price tag given where he was projecting at the time. But I'll give you that one.
Image
Raptorfan2012
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,996
And1: 3,159
Joined: Mar 25, 2012

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#119 » by Raptorfan2012 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:49 am

Indeed wrote:
bluerap23 wrote:
gp2015 wrote:
Except that it's not just a two year contract. It's 2+1 player option.

If Trent plays badly, he's going to pick up the option and we're stuck paying for the bad contract.
If he plays above expectations, then he opts out and either we will have to overpay to re-sign him to a new contract or lose him.

Intelligent talk that conveniently skips the most important details and the worst part of the contract.....

Back to school you go.


Quick question:
When was the last time that Masai handed out an extension that looked like bad value by the end of the contract?


Baynes, Stanley Johnson, McCaw, ...
(People got short memories?)


Lol Stanley and Mccaw made like $4-5M 2 yr deals. Baynes was around the MLE; none of these set the franchise back.
User avatar
Indeed
RealGM
Posts: 17,077
And1: 1,784
Joined: Aug 21, 2009

Re: Updated salary situation for 2021-2022. 

Post#120 » by Indeed » Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:41 am

Raptorfan2012 wrote:
Lol Stanley and Mccaw made like $4-5M 2 yr deals. Baynes was around the MLE; none of these set the franchise back.


bluerap23 wrote:
Baynes and Johnson were free agent contracts, they were not extensions. McCaw was a bad extension but 4 million/year is not a significant price tag given where he was projecting at the time. But I'll give you that one.


Excuse for "insignificant price tag" when adding up to be near 20m?
Baynes didn't set the franchise back?

I don't think we have a horrible contract, but we are over the tax for a play-in team? Even we trade away Dragic to be under the tax, it does not mean we have salary flexibility next year, might as well lose Boucher. So we are happy with this roster for the next 2 years?

Return to Toronto Raptors