ImageImageImageImageImage

Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey

Moderators: Alfred, 7 Footer, Reeko, lebron stopper, niQ, Morris_Shatford, DG88, gojoorange

Should #10 be retired for the Raptors?

Yes
91
48%
No
98
52%
 
Total votes: 189

phanman
Head Coach
Posts: 6,170
And1: 6,248
Joined: Mar 18, 2016
 

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#81 » by phanman » Tue Sep 7, 2021 8:15 pm

Sheesh the results are a bit shocking. I am/was always of the POV that his jersey was guaranteed once his career wrapped up. Sure he ultimately didn't lead us to a chip but he was a major catalyst in his final 5 playoff seasons, highlighted by our first ECF birth in 2016. Yes Lowry was the more important piece, but DeMar played just as big of a role in this era changing the status of the franchise from laughing stock to playoff contenders. He also established a high enough value in the league that all it took was him Poeltl and a FRP to pry Kawhi and Danny away from the Spurs leading us to our chip.

At the end of the day, the man put in 9 full seasons(4x All Stars Nods & 2x All-NBA) with the team and his name is scattered all over the record books with us:
1st (or tied) in: Games, Minutes, Seasons, Points, FG, FGA, FT, FTA, FT/game, Consecutive 30+ pts, Player of the Week & Months,
3rd in AST, STL
6th in REB
etc.
KrazyP
General Manager
Posts: 8,229
And1: 3,843
Joined: Jun 03, 2001
 

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#82 » by KrazyP » Tue Sep 7, 2021 8:44 pm

refshateRaps wrote:We are seriously diluting jersey retiring if this is the bar


Diluting? How many jerseys have the Raptors actually retired in 26 years of existence?
kalel123
Analyst
Posts: 3,462
And1: 1,826
Joined: Oct 19, 2004

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#83 » by kalel123 » Tue Sep 7, 2021 8:47 pm

BryceMaxJames wrote:Nope, he didn't get the job done. If we are gonna retire Demar, we gotta retire Kawhi as well.


Why not? They both deserve it. Not because of what anyone like LeBron says but because they just do.
User avatar
ThatClockWork
Veteran
Posts: 2,625
And1: 1,661
Joined: Jun 24, 2010
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#84 » by ThatClockWork » Tue Sep 7, 2021 9:13 pm

ehh if Derozan's jersey is being retired, Vince's should be first.
Right now Lowry is the only one going up in the rafters.
Barack Obama wrote:You can’t lose heart, or grow cynical if there are twists and turns on your journey. The cynics may be the loudest voices — but I promise you, they will accomplish the least.
User avatar
rapstarter
Veteran
Posts: 2,555
And1: 3,046
Joined: Feb 01, 2017
 

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#85 » by rapstarter » Tue Sep 7, 2021 9:45 pm

Danny1616 wrote:
rapstarter wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
Huh?

Derozan was the scoring leader for the greatest period in franchise history when we were a perennial 50+ win team. He was a part of multiple deep playoff runs although we could not get over the hump. Derozan holds multiple franchise records and played the longest with the franchise out of any player.

Let's look at teams that retired their stars even though they couldn't win a chip:

Atlanta - retired Wilkins, Maravich, Mutombo.

Nets - retired Petrovic, Kidd.

Cavaliers - retired Ilgauskus, Nance, Price, Thurmond, Daughtery

Mavericks - retired Blackman, Davis, Harper

Nuggets - retired English, Lever, Mutombo

Warriors - retired Mullin, Attles, Barry, Thurmond

Rockets - retired Yao

Pacers - retired Miller

Heat - retired Hardaway

Knicks - retired Ewing

Thunder/Seattle - retired Collison, Haywood

Sixers - retired Iverson, Cheeks, Barkley

Suns - retired Nash, Marjerle, Barkley, Johnson

Kings - retired Vlade, Webber, Peja, Richmond

Jazz - retired Malone, Stockton, Hornacek, Dantley


Sure, some of them are bad selections, but most of these are bonafide HOFers who were actually carrying their franchises which is the opposite of what DeMar did for us. I'm not faulting him for not winning the championship (although that would have greatly helped). He was actually carried by his team in the playoffs, and he was very often the reason we barely advanced or got humiliated. What was DeMar's defining moment for us? The second dunk in the Slam Dunk contest? Getting traded for Kawhi? Speaking of LeBron, it would make more sense if we retired his jersey like Miami did for MJ.

Again, never said DeMar would be among the very worst players to get their jersey retired. He makes more sense than Tony Allen did. I just happen to think the bar has to be higher, and just because the likes of Tony Allen got their jerseys retired, we should be lowering our bar.


More than half of the players listed have not made the hall of fame.

Retired jerseys are based on production for a single franchise. After Lowry, Derozan was the most productive player to wear a Raptor jersey over a long period. He holds multiple franchise records, and was a key cog in our 50+ win teams, and was part of our ECF finals run in 2016. Those aren't meaningless accomplishments.

Most memorable moment? Probably his 52 point franchise record game against the Bucks and his big game against Detroit in 2018 on national TV with that huge game closing dunk.

While had his playoff disappointments, can't forget some of his more memorable playoff games


Taking out Attles who had spent more than 17 years at the Warriors as both a player and a championship-winning coach when his jersey was retired, I am counting 25 HOFers out of 40 (though I could be 1 or 2 off here). And it's really two teams with lower bars, Mavs and Cavs, that are skewing the numbers.

There's no set criteria for jersey retirements, so I personally don't agree that DeMar being the most or 2nd most productive player alone warrants him one. You also mention he was part of our ECF run in 2016, but if you remember, it was a miracle that we even made it to the ECF with how horrible he was. We were pushed to Game 7 as the favorites in both series, and he scored 17.9 ppg on 19.7 fga/g against the Pacers, and 22.1 ppg on 21.7 fga/g against Miami.

His regular season records and moments were fine, but IMO his playoffs performances were just too bad. He actually averaged below 50% in TS% over 51 playoffs games here. Considering he was also a poor defender, I'd say his playoffs were a bit beyond "disappointment" and more realistically at the level where you would seriously have to question his legacy. I'd be more enthusiastic about the potential jersey retirement if he was even mediocre during the playoffs, but unfortunately that wasn't the case. I hate to be all "playoffs or nothing", but if you were consistently a liability in the most important moments, the likelihood is you are not going to be celebrated as much.
User avatar
nizaam
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,684
And1: 396
Joined: Nov 02, 2008

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#86 » by nizaam » Wed Sep 8, 2021 2:44 am

Ibaka should get his jersey retired before kawhi. Cant believe people want to retire a jersey for a guy who played 1 season, almost did not report then left after winning a championship (and he knew already he let it slip in many interviews). Retiring someones jersey is a 2 way street and they should actually respect the franchise and fans to get honoured back. No Vince, CB4 or Kawhi. Derozan and Lowry built We The North, Serge a close 3rd then FVV and Siakam are still writing their stories. No need to give it to anyone who did not care about Raptors Basketball.
User avatar
ontnut
General Manager
Posts: 8,038
And1: 5,468
Joined: Jan 31, 2009
Location: Toronto
       

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#87 » by ontnut » Wed Sep 8, 2021 2:59 am

Just because other teams have retired role players or fan favourites doesn't mean we HAVE to as well.
I can understand the rationale behind wanting to retire #10, but for me, he's on the fence based on my personal criteria.
As I mentioned in a previous post, because of MLSE's recent retirements of guys like Wendel Clark, one would assume they would probably lean towards retiring #10 too after his career is done. But I wouldn't, just like I wouldn't have retired Clark's #17.
Image
My Bae Bae :love:
User avatar
Mattd97
Head Coach
Posts: 6,230
And1: 2,398
Joined: Mar 29, 2007
Location: Toronto

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#88 » by Mattd97 » Wed Sep 8, 2021 2:05 pm

This is silly. Just do a ring of honour. The jays have had way more success for way longer and have only retired 2 guys -- one of which is coming down. You can make levels of honour here, and he's clearly on the second rung
vergogna wrote:- game starts at 3.50
- nice passing at 4.15
- BARGS REBOUND at 4.47
- BARGS REBOUND (almost) at 6.23
User avatar
OakleyDokely
RealGM
Posts: 20,353
And1: 42,182
Joined: Aug 02, 2008
Location: 416
 

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#89 » by OakleyDokely » Wed Sep 8, 2021 3:13 pm

This would be my criteria to get your jersey retired:

1. HOF calibre player
2. Long and productive career with franchise
3. Team success

With Lowry, you get all 3, which makes him an automatic. With the other guys mentioned, you might only get 1 or 2 of these, which makes them borderline candidates.

As others have mentioned, I like tiers.

1st tier: number retired (Lowry)
2nd tier: ring of honor (Kawhi, Bosh, DeMar, Vince)
3rd tier: in-game ceremony (Gasol, Ibaka, Norm, Green)
User avatar
OAKLEY_2
RealGM
Posts: 17,967
And1: 7,995
Joined: Dec 19, 2008

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#90 » by OAKLEY_2 » Wed Sep 8, 2021 3:55 pm

bboyskinnylegs wrote:Kyle is the only one that deserves to get his jersey retired imo. Next on the list is Kawhi. No one else as of yet. If we're going to take championships out of the equation, it cheapens everything and we're back to celebrating Atlantic Division banners again. There are other ways to recognize former Raptor greats that don't include retiring jerseys.


The Jays "recognized" a lot of people from their title runs. But it wasn't Jack Morris or David Cone. Rentals to get over the hump do not get banners or jerseys retired. I have said it before they should hoist Lowry's #7 Raps and Nash's Team Canada #7. Then do some fancy murals for DeMar and Kawhi. Leave it at that.
User avatar
OAKLEY_2
RealGM
Posts: 17,967
And1: 7,995
Joined: Dec 19, 2008

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#91 » by OAKLEY_2 » Wed Sep 8, 2021 3:57 pm

Then retire number 15.
User avatar
Mikistan
RealGM
Posts: 18,865
And1: 29,309
Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Location: Shamblesland
     

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#92 » by Mikistan » Wed Sep 8, 2021 4:28 pm

nizaam wrote:Ibaka should get his jersey retired before kawhi. Cant believe people want to retire a jersey for a guy who played 1 season, almost did not report then left after winning a championship (and he knew already he let it slip in many interviews). Retiring someones jersey is a 2 way street and they should actually respect the franchise and fans to get honoured back. No Vince, CB4 or Kawhi. Derozan and Lowry built We The North, Serge a close 3rd then FVV and Siakam are still writing their stories. No need to give it to anyone who did not care about Raptors Basketball.

Lol
Image
User avatar
bon
Head Coach
Posts: 7,177
And1: 12,379
Joined: Jul 17, 2015
 

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#93 » by bon » Wed Sep 8, 2021 4:50 pm

You don't have to be a superstar to get your jersey retired... I don't know how that myth started
Image
User avatar
PurpleTrees
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,266
And1: 1,917
Joined: May 01, 2014

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#94 » by PurpleTrees » Wed Sep 8, 2021 4:51 pm

#10 will be retired without a doubt, I don't think the raps brass intends on letting anyone else wear that number. The voices clamoring for it not to be retired will be drowned once the time is right. No one will care for loud minority opinions when its time to make that decision.
User avatar
raptor jesus
General Manager
Posts: 9,855
And1: 20,585
Joined: Feb 12, 2011
 

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#95 » by raptor jesus » Wed Sep 8, 2021 5:09 pm

No thanks. Demar deserves to be celebrated in some way, but for me, jersey retirements should be reserved for a calibre of player beyond Derozan's purview.
totallyr
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,458
And1: 109
Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Location: On the lake, lifes a beach
         

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#96 » by totallyr » Thu Sep 9, 2021 4:12 pm

Yes they should, once both he and Lowry are both retired as good friends retire them together.It's fitting.
To all our soldiers serving overseas, be safe and come home soon
will
RealGM
Posts: 29,395
And1: 25,542
Joined: Jan 08, 2006
Location: Pat's Homestyle Jamaican Restaurant
Contact:
         

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#97 » by will » Thu Sep 9, 2021 7:19 pm

Will: Who cares what Lebron thinks?
Image
FreshyFlames
Pro Prospect
Posts: 994
And1: 912
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
         

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#98 » by FreshyFlames » Thu Sep 9, 2021 7:35 pm

Memphis is retiring Tony Allen's number :lol:
Raps in 6ix
Kingsway_fan
Head Coach
Posts: 6,742
And1: 4,546
Joined: May 25, 2016
 

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#99 » by Kingsway_fan » Thu Sep 9, 2021 8:19 pm

#15 first.

8 time allstar
Seven years raptors
Holds many raptor records including highest playoffs scoring average
Superstar.

Would own all Raptors records were it not for incompetent raptors management during his era.
Promoted basketball in toronto and Canada.
Future HOF.
libertyYYZ
Junior
Posts: 428
And1: 263
Joined: Sep 21, 2019
   

Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey 

Post#100 » by libertyYYZ » Thu Sep 9, 2021 9:07 pm

Reeko wrote:Yes, absolutely. For some odd reason there are posters here who think that we would somehow be lowering the bar if we retired DeMar's number, we wouldn't be. Just take a look at some of the players who have had their jerseys retired.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_retired_numbers


So, how many of these retired numbers got out of the second playoff round? Most of them, so Demar would be comparable to Dominique Wilkins who spent 12 years with the Hawks and his best playoff run was a 7-game exit in 1988. Demar's case is kinda on par with Dominique, but Dominique feels like a long service award.

Toronto hasn't handed out any retired numbers so far, but Masai is committed to retiring Lowry's number. I think Masai likes the rarity and will reward champions with the honour.
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships." -- Michael Jordan

Return to Toronto Raptors