Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains

[VanWest82]

There will be growing pains but this team still has a good shot at making the playoffs. Our defense is going to be legit.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Honest question, if we're a lottery team again...like last year. What's the motivation for people to watch all year?

Do people think this fan base is going to actually stick around, like the Leaf's apathetic fan base?

[Lateral Quicks]

If Nurse and co wanted to make the playoffs as a #5-#8 seed, I'm pretty confident they could do so with this group. There's too much talent on this team - both on the court and on the sidelines - to miss the playoffs. However, if they prioritize development over winning and stealth tank late in games, then another lottery appearance is possible.

I'm going to enjoy watching this squad either.

[MadDogSHWA]

What's the motivation for people to watch all year?

Da yutes

[Dalek]

If this is a young and rebuilding team, then why are we nearly capped out? Rebuilding teams are not usually navigating around the cap so narrowly. The problem is we have zero flexibility to get other young assets unless we move on from guys like FVV and Siakam. Signing Birch makes little sense. How can he help a rebuilding team?

Honestly, if this were the Thunder I can understand. Loads of young guys with limited NBA experience. Toronto's potential starting five are all vets at this point, so the the young statement seems a bit off. Masai should just be honest and say they mishandled several free agencies.

Honestly, I know Masai brought a championship with the the very short-term Kawhi / Gasol acquisitions, but when I watch the newer GMs like in NY, Atlanta, Chicago and Brooklyn making strong moves mixing young and older talent, it is hard for me to see the vision for Toronto.

We lost Kawhi, Gasol, Green, Ibaka, Powell and Lowry for a grand total of Gary Trent Jr. and Precious Achuiwa. I guess we haven't lost any picks, but we haven't gained any significant ones either.

Why this type of statement bothers me is that it makes the young players like Flynn or Achuiwa a scapegoats, when in reality the core is flawed. Masai/Bobby were the architects that paid near max for Pascal when they extended him prior to free agency, overpaid FVV
when he isn't even an all-star level player and then the puzzling deals for Gary Trent Jr and Khem Birch. The only guy capable of outplaying his contract value is OG.

[ItsDanger]

He's just being realistic. This season is about what direction the team will take going forward.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Da yutes

That might fly pre Championship, post it's called an "inferior product". It's followed by a lot of canceled season tickets, a reduction in prices and subscription packages.

[HumbleRen]

If this is a young and rebuilding team, then why are we nearly capped out? Rebuilding teams are not usually navigating around the cap so narrowly. The problem is we have zero flexibility to get other young assets unless we move on from guys like FVV and Siakam. Signing Birch makes little sense. How can he help a rebuilding team?

Honestly, if this were the Thunder I can understand. Loads of young guys with limited NBA experience. Toronto's potential starting five are all vets at this point, so the the young statement seems a bit off. Masai should just be honest and say they mishandled several free agencies.

Honestly, I know Masai brought a championship with the the very short-term Kawhi / Gasol acquisitions, but when I watch the newer GMs like in NY, Atlanta, Chicago and Brooklyn making strong moves mixing young and older talent, it is hard for me to see the vision for Toronto.

We lost Kawhi, Gasol, Green, Ibaka, Powell and Lowry for a grand total of Gary Trent Jr. and Precious Achuiwa. I guess we haven't lost any picks, but we haven't gained any significant ones either.

Why this type of statement bothers me is that it makes the young players like Flynn or Achuiwa a scapegoats, when in reality the core is flawed. Masai/Bobby were the architects that paid near max for Pascal when they extended him prior to free agency, overpaid FVV
when he isn't even an all-star level player and then the puzzling deals for Gary Trent Jr and Khem Birch. The only guy capable of outplaying his contract value is OG.

I think it’s very clear that Siakam and FVV aren’t apart of our championship aspirations in the future and are only here to keep us steady and be a respectable team.

Once GTJ, Scottie, OG and Precious all take the next step, Siakam and FVV are likely gone in a trade to bring a superstar in

[Duffman100]

We lost Kawhi, Gasol, Green, Ibaka, Powell and Lowry for a grand total of Gary Trent Jr. and Precious Achuiwa. I guess we haven't lost any picks, but we haven't gained any significant ones either.

Comments like these drive me crazy.

First off, we won a title because of those players. So it's Gary Trent, Achuiwa and a TITLE.

Secondly,

Kawhi got us that title. Getting anything for him would have meant not winning.
Danny Green was pretty toast near the end of the playoffs. And we had OG and Norm to fill his role for the next year. Didn't lose out on much.
We were still contenders the next year and Gasol and Ibaka were big reasons for it. Trading them wouldn't have made sense.
Taking a shot on Giannis turned out bad, but would we want Ibaka now? With his surgery?

So Norm and Lowry for Trent and Achuiwa. Trent is 5 years younger than Norm, so ... good. I would have loved more for Lowry, but it clearly wasn't in the cards. He's criminally underrated and was making 30 million and asking for 20-30 million extension. Made it hard to deal him.

[OakleyDokely]

We lost Kawhi, Gasol, Green, Ibaka, Powell and Lowry for a grand total of Gary Trent Jr. and Precious Achuiwa. I guess we haven't lost any picks, but we haven't gained any significant ones either.

Comments like these drive me crazy.

First off, we won a title because of those players. So it's Gary Trent, Achuiwa and a TITLE.

Secondly,

Kawhi got us that title. Getting anything for him would have meant not winning.
Danny Green was pretty toast near the end of the playoffs. And we had OG and Norm to fill his role for the next year. Didn't lose out on much.
We were still contenders the next year and Gasol and Ibaka were big reasons for it. Trading them wouldn't have made sense.
Taking a shot on Giannis turned out bad, but would we want Ibaka now? With his surgery?

So Norm and Lowry for Trent and Achuiwa. Trent is 5 years younger than Norm, so ... good. I would have loved more for Lowry, but it clearly wasn't in the cards. He's criminally underrated and was making 30 million and asking for 20-30 million extension. Made it hard to deal him.

Yup and the franchises he wishes we were havent won anything. The Raps won a recent title because of those players he wishes we traded early.

[ash_k]

If Nurse and co wanted to make the playoffs as a #5-#8 seed, I'm pretty confident they could do so with this group. There's too much talent on this team - both on the court and on the sidelines - to miss the playoffs. However, if they prioritize development over winning and stealth tank late in games, then another lottery appearance is possible.

I'm going to enjoy watching this squad either.

Players will develop no matter what.
Pascal "developed" into the 2nd option on the championship team out of nowhere!
We are headed for TOP5 with both OG and GTjr taking that expected next step.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

There's also the "I'm all about winning" statement. Like, you can't say that and follow it up with another consecutive lottery pick.

That's headline material, people don't want to hear that.

[Duffman100]

Honest question, if we're a lottery team again...like last year. What's the motivation for people to watch all year?

Do people think this fan base is going to actually stick around, like the Leaf's apathetic fan base?

If you take a fanbase and start to build segmentations.

Hardcore fans - Around every season, regardless of outcome.
Big fans - Will watch every game of a winning seasons, start to slide on losing seasons
Casual fans - Watch a lot of games on winning seasons, very few on losing seasons
Bandwagon fans Invested in hype and when the team starts getting media attention, watch no losing seasons.

Hardcore fans will always stick around.
All others will follow you a formula of x% attention based on y% performance based on z% on-going time of that peformance.

Granted there are some variables like generational talents (Vince), style of play etc.

Long story short, not an easy answer. But the franchise had 9 winning seasons and a lot of success including a title. That will keep a good percentage of Casual and Big fans around for a bit.

[BigCountry]

Honest question, if we're a lottery team again...like last year. What's the motivation for people to watch all year?

Do people think this fan base is going to actually stick around, like the Leaf's apathetic fan base?

People will definitely watch. I watched 6 seasons of the Vancouver Grizzlies until they moved. Then I became a Raptors fan. That is a lot of losing basketball I've watched in my lifetime. People seem to forget how bad things were for a long time. I've cheered on guys like Big Country, Tony Massenberg, Raphael araujo, Pape Sow etc. But I've also gotten to see guys like DeRozan and Lowry OG and Pascal grow and flourish.

I've seen the Raptors make multiple playoffs, win multiple playoff rounds and win a chip. I've been lucky enough to see lots of games in person even though I live in Victoria. I was even able to go see the Raptors play game 3 & 4 of the finals.

We've as fans have been spoiled for a while with winning basketball. It seems that sometimes it's never good enough for some fans. There are so many reasons to cheer on a sports team, winning isn't always one of them. They give people a chance to cheer, connect, talk, argue and even fight. Sports let's us escape our daily grind a couple hours a week. The true fans will watch, we might complain a bit but we'll watch.

[KL78192020]

Honest question, if we're a lottery team again...like last year. What's the motivation for people to watch all year?

Do people think this fan base is going to actually stick around, like the Leaf's apathetic fan base?

I mean you've been here since 2006 some of the darkest days after the Vince era, I'm sure you watched the Babcock years. People will watch no matter what, its entertainment.

[Duffman100]

I'm honestly astounded.

We were a laughing stock of garbage proportions. Masai comes and immediately we are a perennial playoff team. Making it deep into the playoffs year after year. He notices why we keep losing, he pulls off a ballsy trade and we WIN A TITLE. We contend again for another year and then we appropriately tank and get the 4th overall pick.

And some people have issue with him? I'm not saying you have to agree with everything he does, I'm not saying he hasn't and won't make mistakes. But my god, hasn't the man built some trust and credibility? He has a vision for the team to get us back to winning a title and has shown he'll do anything to get there.

Have some effing faith.

I feel some of you weren't around for the dark times and don't appreciate what sort of FO we have.

[VanWest82]

overpaid FVV when he isn't even an all-star level player and then the puzzling deals for Gary Trent Jr and Khem Birch. The only guy capable of outplaying his contract value is OG.

Fred was pretty clearly outplaying his deal last year until he got covid and then strained his hip trying to come back. He was easily all star level and if he plays like that again this year he'll make the all star game. His contract is a steal.

[Vorticity]

Nick Nurse also did a podcast today where he said Scottie Barnes will play a lot. Multiple positions , get lots of reps

do you have the link by any chance?

nvm, found it, for those who want to listen to The Nurse (Raptors talk starts at minute 20)

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL29reW91dmVnb3Q1bWludXRlcy9mZWVkLnhtbA/episode/b2t5b3V2ZWdvdDVtaW51dGVzLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL2NmYzMwODI2LTQ2ZWYtM2E2MC1hOGQ1LWM0MzYxZDIxNGM4OA?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwjQxJfu6u_yAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQGQ&hl=en-CA

[Tacoma]

There's also the "I'm all about winning" statement. Like, you can't say that and follow it up with another consecutive lottery pick.

That's headline material, people don't want to hear that.

Winning is about winning the Championship and not anything less. There was no realistic path to the Championship with the roster we had beginning last season, thus the need to tank mid-season and now fully in rebuild mode in order to get back on a path to another Championship. Sometimes the best strategy is to take one step back in order to move two steps forward.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

If you take a fanbase and start to build segmentations.

Hardcore fans - Around every season, regardless of outcome.
Big fans - Will watch every game of a winning seasons, start to slide on losing seasons
Casual fans - Watch a lot of games on winning seasons, very few on losing seasons
Bandwagon fans Invested in hype and when the team starts getting media attention, watch no losing seasons.

Hardcore fans will always stick around.
All others will follow you a formula of x% attention based on y% performance based on z% on-going time of that peformance.

Granted there are some variables like generational talents (Vince), style of play etc.

Long story short, not an easy answer. But the franchise had 9 winning seasons and a lot of success including a title. That will keep a good percentage of Casual and Big fans around for a bit.

We've been to the mountaintop, I'm not sure people are looking to scale Everest again if it entails watching years of garbage.

Once you start down that path, there is no guarantee it ends soon.