Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains

[Duffman100]

If you take a fanbase and start to build segmentations.

Hardcore fans - Around every season, regardless of outcome.
Big fans - Will watch every game of a winning seasons, start to slide on losing seasons
Casual fans - Watch a lot of games on winning seasons, very few on losing seasons
Bandwagon fans Invested in hype and when the team starts getting media attention, watch no losing seasons.

Hardcore fans will always stick around.
All others will follow you a formula of x% attention based on y% performance based on z% on-going time of that peformance.

Granted there are some variables like generational talents (Vince), style of play etc.

Long story short, not an easy answer. But the franchise had 9 winning seasons and a lot of success including a title. That will keep a good percentage of Casual and Big fans around for a bit.

We've been to the mountaintop, I'm not sure people are looking to scale Everest again if it entails watching years of garbage.

Once you start down that path, there is no guarantee it ends soon.

Yup and some people won't, but they'll always come back.

You'll always lose fans at the start of a rebuild, while you're terrible. Nature of the business. But I think the Raptors core fanbase, brand and consistent recent success is definitely enough to sustain them until they're relevant again.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Winning is about winning the Championship and not anything less. There was no realistic path to the Championship with the roster we had beginning last season, thus the need to tank mid-season and now fully in rebuild mode in order to get back on a path to another Championship. Sometimes the best strategy is to take one step back in order to move two steps forward.

I get a step back, but there is going to be major push back if it's eating s___ sandwiches.

[Ackshun]

Where all my heads that think moving from Tampa will add 20 wins this year?

Masai with that reality dose.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Yup and some people won't, but they'll always come back.

You'll always lose fans at the start of a rebuild, while you're terrible. Nature of the business. But I think the Raptors core fanbase, brand and consistent recent success is definitely enough to sustain them until they're relevant again.

The Bulls fanbase probably felt the same way. Some times the gap is larger than people think in terms of years.

Players get disgruntled with L's, it becomes a much harder sell.

[DG88]

If you take a fanbase and start to build segmentations.

Hardcore fans - Around every season, regardless of outcome.
Big fans - Will watch every game of a winning seasons, start to slide on losing seasons
Casual fans - Watch a lot of games on winning seasons, very few on losing seasons
Bandwagon fans Invested in hype and when the team starts getting media attention, watch no losing seasons.

Hardcore fans will always stick around.
All others will follow you a formula of x% attention based on y% performance based on z% on-going time of that peformance.

Granted there are some variables like generational talents (Vince), style of play etc.

Long story short, not an easy answer. But the franchise had 9 winning seasons and a lot of success including a title. That will keep a good percentage of Casual and Big fans around for a bit.

We've been to the mountaintop, I'm not sure people are looking to scale Everest again if it entails watching years of garbage.

Once you start down that path, there is no guarantee it ends soon.

Most teams go through this cycle from bad to great back to bad. We were never going to stay on the mountain top forever. We're back to building another Championship team again under Masai's direction. It's just the reality of sports.

[Duffman100]

Yup and some people won't, but they'll always come back.

You'll always lose fans at the start of a rebuild, while you're terrible. Nature of the business. But I think the Raptors core fanbase, brand and consistent recent success is definitely enough to sustain them until they're relevant again.

The Bulls fanbase probably felt the same way. Some times the gap is larger than people think in terms of years.

Players get disgruntled with L's, it becomes a much harder sell.

Sure, but what's the alternative? It's called the Colangelo method. Traded assets to scrape your way into being playoff fodder.

Look at the Bulls right now, great example. They've grown tired and are pushing chips with Derozan, Lavine and Vuvevic... that team isn't going to win you the title and, quite frankly, doesn't have the organic growth to get there in a few years.

[720]

Nick Nurse also did a podcast today where he said Scottie Barnes will play a lot. Multiple positions , get lots of reps

Wow that’s great to hear. Team knows what’s up it seems.

[720]

Yup and some people won't, but they'll always come back.

You'll always lose fans at the start of a rebuild, while you're terrible. Nature of the business. But I think the Raptors core fanbase, brand and consistent recent success is definitely enough to sustain them until they're relevant again.

The Bulls fanbase probably felt the same way. Some times the gap is larger than people think in terms of years.

Players get disgruntled with L's, it becomes a much harder sell.

Sure, but what's the alternative? It's called the Colangelo method. Traded assets to scrape your way into being playoff fodder.

Look at the Bulls right now, great example. They've grown tired and are pushing chips with Derozan, Lavine and Vuvevic... that team isn't going to win you the title and, quite frankly, doesn't have the organic growth to get there in a few years.

Also the Bulls were run by Gar Forman and John Paxson for years and next to Ernie Grunfeld they’re one of the worst front offices in recent history.

We got Masai, Bobby and Dan Tolzman.

[KrazyP]

Team treadmill in shambles.

And team tank will be in the game threads crying after every win. Should be a fun season.

Masai basically said nothing we dont already know. The average age of the rotation players is something like 23-24. Obviously there will be growing pains. The offense is going to be butt ugly at times.

The team will come out and try to compete for the first half of the season and then make an assessment on tanking after the all-star break.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Sure, but what's the alternative? It's called the Colangelo method. Traded assets to scrape your way into being playoff fodder.

Look at the Bulls right now, great example. They've grown tired and are pushing chips with Derozan, Lavine and Vuvevic... that team isn't going to win you the title and, quite frankly, doesn't have the organic growth to get there in a few years.

You don't need an alternative when you don't have cap problems. In my mind, tanking is the problem at this point. We've already got a top four talent along with a bunch of decent young guys.

Heading down that path is like running into a burning house, it's not really worth the risk.

[720]

Team treadmill in shambles.

And team tank will be in the game threads crying after every win. Should be a fun season.

Masai basically said nothing we dont already know. The average age of the rotation players is something like 23-24. Obviously there will be growing pains. The offense is going to be butt ugly at times.

The team will come out and try to compete for the first half of the season and then make an assessment on tanking after the all-star break.

Damn remember the days when Treadmill nation said we would NEVER tank and that we had to preserve winning culture? Ah good times.

Let’s just hope if Masai does intend to tank he does a better job than last season (albeit we did okay by getting lucky and jumping 3 spots so no complaints here just saying let’s make that push for bottom 6).

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Team treadmill in shambles.

And team tank will be in the game threads crying after every win. Should be a fun season.

Masai basically said nothing we dont already know. The average age of the rotation players is something like 23-24. Obviously there will be growing pains. The offense is going to be butt ugly at times.

The team will come out and try to compete for the first half of the season and then make an assessment on tanking after the all-star break.

Damn remember the days when Treadmill nation said we would NEVER tank and that we had to preserve winning culture? Ah good times.

Let’s just hope if Masai does intend to tank he does a better job than last season (albeit we did okay by getting lucky and jumping 3 spots so no complaints here just saying let’s make that push for bottom 6).

If the pro tankers aren't happy with a top four pick...when does it end. It doesn't seem like they actually have a plan.

[Danny1616]

Team treadmill in shambles.

And team tank will be in the game threads crying after every win. Should be a fun season.

Masai basically said nothing we dont already know. The average age of the rotation players is something like 23-24. Obviously there will be growing pains. The offense is going to be butt ugly at times.

The team will come out and try to compete for the first half of the season and then make an assessment on tanking after the all-star break.

Damn remember the days when Treadmill nation said we would NEVER tank and that we had to preserve winning culture? Ah good times.

Let’s just hope if Masai does intend to tank he does a better job than last season (albeit we did okay by getting lucky and jumping 3 spots so no complaints here just saying let’s make that push for bottom 6).

Not what most of us said at all.

For the eight millionth time, many of us were saying that you don't openly enter a season with the goal of tanking, but if it's obvious after a large sample size of games that the team doesn't have it, it's fine to tank.

Many, including myself, have been consistent with that viewpoint.

It's you who constantly change the goal posts as you see fit.

[720]

And team tank will be in the game threads crying after every win. Should be a fun season.

Masai basically said nothing we dont already know. The average age of the rotation players is something like 23-24. Obviously there will be growing pains. The offense is going to be butt ugly at times.

The team will come out and try to compete for the first half of the season and then make an assessment on tanking after the all-star break.

Damn remember the days when Treadmill nation said we would NEVER tank and that we had to preserve winning culture? Ah good times.

Let’s just hope if Masai does intend to tank he does a better job than last season (albeit we did okay by getting lucky and jumping 3 spots so no complaints here just saying let’s make that push for bottom 6).

If the pro tankers aren't happy with a top four pick...when does it end. It doesn't seem like they actually have a plan.

Damn which pro tanker wasn’t happy with a top 4 pick?

[vulture]

Honest question, if we're a lottery team again...like last year. What's the motivation for people to watch all year?

Do people think this fan base is going to actually stick around, like the Leaf's apathetic fan base?

If you're a lifer then you will watch, but there definitely a lot of casuals.

[Duffman100]

Sure, but what's the alternative? It's called the Colangelo method. Traded assets to scrape your way into being playoff fodder.

Look at the Bulls right now, great example. They've grown tired and are pushing chips with Derozan, Lavine and Vuvevic... that team isn't going to win you the title and, quite frankly, doesn't have the organic growth to get there in a few years.

You don't need an alternative when you don't have cap problems. In my mind, tanking is the problem at this point. We've already got a top four talent along with a bunch of decent young guys.

Heading down that path is like running into a burning house, it's not really worth the risk.

I don't know if I agree. We still need a top scoring talent and we have two options,

Trade Siakam or Van Vleet + assets for a top guy
Draft someone to be that guy

Adding another lottery value player is not a bad idea at this point for either case. Either you include that pick or player in a deal to get an elite player or he becomes an elite player.

[720]

And team tank will be in the game threads crying after every win. Should be a fun season.

Masai basically said nothing we dont already know. The average age of the rotation players is something like 23-24. Obviously there will be growing pains. The offense is going to be butt ugly at times.

The team will come out and try to compete for the first half of the season and then make an assessment on tanking after the all-star break.

Damn remember the days when Treadmill nation said we would NEVER tank and that we had to preserve winning culture? Ah good times.

Let’s just hope if Masai does intend to tank he does a better job than last season (albeit we did okay by getting lucky and jumping 3 spots so no complaints here just saying let’s make that push for bottom 6).

Not what most of us said at all.

For the eight millionth time, many of us were saying that you don't openly enter a season with the goal of tanking, but if it's obvious after a large sample size of games that the team doesn't have it, it's fine to tank.

Many, including myself, have been consistent with that viewpoint.

It's you who constantly change the goal posts as you see fit.

You don’t even post enough to represent treadmill nation I don’t even think of you when I mention them. But aren’t you the guy that said a top 5 pick has never won a championship for the team that they were drafted in? Just stop bro I’m ignoring you.

[Anticon]

Aka Suggs will be better than Barnes in the short term but please don't judge them even though they're the same age practically.

Joking, kind of lol.

No, it's basically true. If we wanted to get back to the second round as quickly as possible, Suggs was the play.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

I don't know if I agree. We still need a top scoring talent and we have two options,

Trade Siakam or Van Vleet + assets for a top guy
Draft someone to be that guy

Adding another lottery value player is not a bad idea at this point for either case. Either you include that pick or player in a deal to get an elite player or he becomes an elite player.

You don't take Barnes 4th if you don't think he's that with time.

[Duffman100]

I don't know if I agree. We still need a top scoring talent and we have two options,

Trade Siakam or Van Vleet + assets for a top guy
Draft someone to be that guy

Adding another lottery value player is not a bad idea at this point for either case. Either you include that pick or player in a deal to get an elite player or he becomes an elite player.

You don't take Barnes 4th if you don't think he's that with time.

I don't think anyone sees Barnes as a potential #1 option...