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Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains

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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#421 » by everdiso » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:53 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
everdiso wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:

They’re really not. If you want to be a homer be my guest but I’m not about to feel bad for a team who have 2 wings that will give you basically 25/5/5 on any given night all before the age of 25.

They’ve made the ECF 3 out of the last 5 playoffs even with max players at the time being a shell of themselves or just completely injured in Hayward’s case.

If anything, the only reason why you think Tatum & Brown are overrated is because they’ve been over performing for their entire career.


Why would you call me a homer when literally everything you said there was clearly false?

And overperforming? this season was the first time the Celtics have finished ahead of the raps in 5yrs, and they finished .500, while the raps were blatantly tanking.


Nothing I said was false, only one I’m willing to budge on is Jaylen Brown’s contract, even then he’s easily on the list of best contracts in the NBA.

Why are you even using data from last year to judge a team ? COVID impacted the Celtics the most out of any team and it isn’t even close.


Everything you said was clearly false. The ages, the capspace, the ccontracts, and the evaluation of Tatum and Brown.

And last year was the only time Tatum has ever finished ahead of the Raps, so how is looking at last year unfair to him?
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#422 » by ATLTimekeeper » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:54 pm

Usually when your HoF GM quits and your newly extended hot shot head coach gets bumped upstairs into a pencil pushing position, it's not exactly a situation to get excited about.

The Raptors are in a different position, because they're flanking their core with younger players. The Celtics are in win-now mode by bringing back Horford and adding Dunn/Schroeder/Kanter/Richardson.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#423 » by HumbleRen » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:55 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
everdiso wrote:
Why would you call me a homer when literally everything you said there was clearly false?

And overperforming? this season was the first time the Celtics have finished ahead of the raps in 5yrs, and they finished .500, while the raps were blatantly tanking.


Nothing I said was false, only one I’m willing to budge on is Jaylen Brown’s contract, even then he’s easily on the list of best contracts in the NBA.

Why are you even using data from last year to judge a team ? COVID impacted the Celtics the most out of any team and it isn’t even close.


*any team other than us.




Wasn’t just us, Heat and Mavs had it as bad as us. Celtics with a sizeable lead though.

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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#424 » by Raps in 4 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:01 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:

Nothing I said was false, only one I’m willing to budge on is Jaylen Brown’s contract, even then he’s easily on the list of best contracts in the NBA.

Why are you even using data from last year to judge a team ? COVID impacted the Celtics the most out of any team and it isn’t even close.


*any team other than us.




Wasn’t just us, Heat and Mavs had it as bad as us. Celtics with a sizeable lead though.

Image


I mean they got to play in Boston. We're the only team who had to play all our games away.

And does that graph adjust for starters vs. bench players? Because the quality of players to miss time is important (almost all our starters missed extended time). Most of our coaching staff also missed time (including Nick).
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#425 » by Jerry Lucas » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:02 pm

dagger wrote:
C_Money wrote:Shocking comments from our leader Masai tbh. Ask Fred and Pascal if they think we’re going to suck this year. The answer is no.


Growing pins does not necessarily mean sucks... It might mean nights where Scottie Barnes is 2-20 from from the field and RealGM pulls its hair out, or where Precious takes some threes and they are airballs. It means the team will push the development of its younger assets, maybe go out of its way some nights to make OG the #1 option, and it might look rather bad at times but you don't get better without doing those things.

Again, he was referring to the team as a whole when he made that comment, not Scottie and the other young players specifically.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#426 » by HumbleRen » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:08 pm

everdiso wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
everdiso wrote:
Why would you call me a homer when literally everything you said there was clearly false?

And overperforming? this season was the first time the Celtics have finished ahead of the raps in 5yrs, and they finished .500, while the raps were blatantly tanking.


Nothing I said was false, only one I’m willing to budge on is Jaylen Brown’s contract, even then he’s easily on the list of best contracts in the NBA.

Why are you even using data from last year to judge a team ? COVID impacted the Celtics the most out of any team and it isn’t even close.


Everything you said was clearly false. The ages, the capspace, the ccontracts, and the evaluation of Tatum and Brown.

And last year was the only time Tatum has ever finished ahead of the Raps, so how is looking at last year unfair to him?


Not really. Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, J Rich, Jaylen Brown, Schroder etc are all on really friendly trade deals.

The ages are all less than a year apart so miss me with that.

My evaluation on Tatum and Brown isn’t a hot take. It’s a common consensus that Tatum is a borderline top 10 player going into 2022 season and Brown is one of the best wings in the NBA.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree with this one.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#427 » by HumbleRen » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:13 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
*any team other than us.




Wasn’t just us, Heat and Mavs had it as bad as us. Celtics with a sizeable lead though.

Image


I mean they got to play in Boston. We're the only team who had to play all our games away.

And does that graph adjust for starters vs. bench players? Because the quality of players to miss time is important (almost all our starters missed extended time). Most of our coaching staff also missed time (including Nick).


I’m not saying who had it worse lol. Raptors obviously did. I’m just saying using last year as a referendum on teams going into this season is silly.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#428 » by everdiso » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:25 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
everdiso wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:

Nothing I said was false, only one I’m willing to budge on is Jaylen Brown’s contract, even then he’s easily on the list of best contracts in the NBA.

Why are you even using data from last year to judge a team ? COVID impacted the Celtics the most out of any team and it isn’t even close.


Everything you said was clearly false. The ages, the capspace, the ccontracts, and the evaluation of Tatum and Brown.

And last year was the only time Tatum has ever finished ahead of the Raps, so how is looking at last year unfair to him?


Not really. Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, J Rich, Jaylen Brown, Schroder etc are all on really friendly trade deals.

The ages are all less than a year apart so miss me with that.

My evaluation on Tatum and Brown isn’t a hot take. It’s a common consensus that Tatum is a borderline top 10 player going into 2022 season and Brown is one of the best wings in the NBA.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree with this one.


You were wrong about the ages. Or you knew, but felt the need to make Tatum and Brown look younger than they actually are.

You were wrong about the capspace, and have now backtracked to saying they could make trades to create capspace.

So you clearly were wrong and or felt the need to lie about the easiest things to fact check.

Then we get to your opinion of those two players, which of course is always nebulous - but given that you already massaged the clearcut numbers above, it's clear that you're biased, and are the perfect example of the overrating of the Celtics that I mentioned.

The truth is they are a capped out team that finished .500 last year, and lost a number of key players to boot. Tatum could barely crack top-40 in any of the major impact stats, while guys like Smart fell apart in non-sheltered usage.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#429 » by Raps in 4 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:28 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:


Wasn’t just us, Heat and Mavs had it as bad as us. Celtics with a sizeable lead though.

Image


I mean they got to play in Boston. We're the only team who had to play all our games away.

And does that graph adjust for starters vs. bench players? Because the quality of players to miss time is important (almost all our starters missed extended time). Most of our coaching staff also missed time (including Nick).


I’m not saying who had it worse lol. Raptors obviously did. I’m just saying using last year as a referendum on teams going into this season is silly.


Oh, I totally agree. I always bring up Covid when people trash Boston too.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#430 » by HumbleRen » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:34 pm

everdiso wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
everdiso wrote:
Everything you said was clearly false. The ages, the capspace, the ccontracts, and the evaluation of Tatum and Brown.

And last year was the only time Tatum has ever finished ahead of the Raps, so how is looking at last year unfair to him?


Not really. Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, J Rich, Jaylen Brown, Schroder etc are all on really friendly trade deals.

The ages are all less than a year apart so miss me with that.

My evaluation on Tatum and Brown isn’t a hot take. It’s a common consensus that Tatum is a borderline top 10 player going into 2022 season and Brown is one of the best wings in the NBA.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree with this one.


You were wrong about the ages. Or you knew, but felt the need to make Tatum and Brown look younger than they actually are.

You were wrong about the capspace, and have now backtracked to saying they could make trades to create capspace.

So you clearly were wrong and or felt the need to lie about the easiest things to fact check.

Then we get to your opinion of those two players, which of course is always nebulous - but given that you already massaged the clearcut numbers above, it's clear that you're biased, and are the perfect example of the overrating of the Celtics that I mentioned.

The truth is they are a capped out team that finished .500 last year, and lost a number of key players to boot. Tatum could barely crack top-40 in any of the major impact stats, while guys like Smart fell apart in non-sheltered usage.



Not really.

GTJ - 22

Tatum - 23

OG - 24

Brown turning 25.

Nothing changed on my stance, they’ve spent the off season making moves so they can make a play for Beal next year.


That Tatum comment is something I’m not even going to reply to lol. Probably one of those dudes who think Pascal is better than Tatum.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#431 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:57 pm

I don't know of many situations that a rookie GM and Coach spell a guaranteed advancement in winning. They basically lost one of their best assets when Brad stepped away from behind the bench.

Also, that Smart's contract is this year plus another 77M, so 90M tied up in smart over the next five years. He'll be making almost 20M a year. People hate on Fred's contract, just imagine if he put up 13 points per and shot 33% from deep on six attempts per game. Brad's already making his mark as GM.

People are painting it like they are a sure thing this year, I don't know if I'd characterize them as such.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#432 » by ConSarnit » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:33 pm

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:I don't know of many situations that a rookie GM and Coach spell a guaranteed advancement in winning. They basically lost one of their best assets when Brad stepped away from behind the bench.

Also, that Smart's contract is this year plus another 77M, so 90M tied up in smart over the next five years. He'll be making almost 20M a year. People hate on Fred's contract, just imagine if he put up 13 points per and shot 33% from deep on six attempts per game. Brad's already making his mark as GM.

People are painting it like they are a sure thing this year, I don't know if I'd characterize them as such.


It’s almost a certainty that Boston downgraded at BOTH GM and coach.

Stevens: generally considered a top 5 coach

Ainge: generally considered a top 5 GM

What are the odds they upgraded at 1 of those positions, let alone both? I’d say it’s pretty low.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#433 » by ATLTimekeeper » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:43 pm

“The Celtics were among the teams that I know of that didn’t take COVID seriously,” Mannix said. “They continued to go out on the road and would find ways to skirt the rules at times when they were traveling. They didn’t take these protocols seriously — not as seriously as some other teams did.

“Washington, when they had all of their COVID issues back in January and early February, they blamed Boston. They complained to the league that the Celtics, because of what they had heard about players going out in Florida I believe it was, they believed they contracted their issues through the Celtics.”


That report stated one Celtics player convinced free agent Blake Griffin not to sign with the team for that reason. Winning may have not been the most important thing on the minds of the players. Some players didn’t take Stevens seriously, according to the report.



This team is in shambles. Beal is going to sign in Boston because of Tatum? He's liable to convince Tatum to force his way out to Washington. They just traded a guy that everyone in the league loves in Kemba Walker and replaced him with a guy that everyone in the league despises in Dennis Schroeder. I don't see their chemistry improving. They brought back Horford, who couldn't hold the room together the last time they were fighting in the locker room.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#434 » by Pointgod » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:16 pm

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:I don't know of many situations that a rookie GM and Coach spell a guaranteed advancement in winning. They basically lost one of their best assets when Brad stepped away from behind the bench.

Also, that Smart's contract is this year plus another 77M, so 90M tied up in smart over the next five years. He'll be making almost 20M a year. People hate on Fred's contract, just imagine if he put up 13 points per and shot 33% from deep on six attempts per game. Brad's already making his mark as GM.

People are painting it like they are a sure thing this year, I don't know if I'd characterize them as such.


Celtics are an interesting team because it looks like they will be a defence first team this season. I don’t necessarily think they got better but they were already way ahead of us. I think they’re a sneaky team what could move up 1 or 2 spots or stay at the 7th. Also getting Schroeder for 5 million is a **** steal. The guy can flat out play, like Simmons people just let the playoff narratives take hold instead of evaluating players objectively. Stevens shouldn’t have gotten his GM spot, perfect example of failing upwards. I think Udoka will be fine. He’s coaching a team that has played with each other for the last 4 seasons? Boston will be fine.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#435 » by Los_29 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:37 pm

Pointgod wrote:
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:I don't know of many situations that a rookie GM and Coach spell a guaranteed advancement in winning. They basically lost one of their best assets when Brad stepped away from behind the bench.

Also, that Smart's contract is this year plus another 77M, so 90M tied up in smart over the next five years. He'll be making almost 20M a year. People hate on Fred's contract, just imagine if he put up 13 points per and shot 33% from deep on six attempts per game. Brad's already making his mark as GM.

People are painting it like they are a sure thing this year, I don't know if I'd characterize them as such.


Celtics are an interesting team because it looks like they will be a defence first team this season. I don’t necessarily think they got better but they were already way ahead of us. I think they’re a sneaky team what could move up 1 or 2 spots or stay at the 7th. Also getting Schroeder for 5 million is a **** steal. The guy can flat out play, like Simmons people just let the playoff narratives take hold instead of evaluating players objectively. Stevens shouldn’t have gotten his GM spot, perfect example of failing upwards. I think Udoka will be fine. He’s coaching a team that has played with each other for the last 4 seasons? Boston will be fine.


If Schroeder could flat out play he wouldn't have signed for 5 million to be a likely bench player for a middling Eastern Conference team. When there is no market for a player that's often always a very bad sign.

Boston has a nice duo in Brown and Tatum but other then that their team is absolutely terrible. If a guy like Marcus Smart is your 3rd best player you're in a lot of trouble. I don't get why people think because you have a top 20 player you can't be a treadmill team. The Wizards have been a treadmill team for about 5 years now and during those 5 years they've had guys like Beal, Wall and Westbrook.

Boston has been a major disappointment and will likely be one again this year. I don't see them making it out of the 1st or 2nd round and if that's the case then do you really have a top 10 player? Top 10 players shouldn't be getting bounced in the 1st round.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#436 » by HumbleRen » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:44 pm

Los_29 wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:I don't know of many situations that a rookie GM and Coach spell a guaranteed advancement in winning. They basically lost one of their best assets when Brad stepped away from behind the bench.

Also, that Smart's contract is this year plus another 77M, so 90M tied up in smart over the next five years. He'll be making almost 20M a year. People hate on Fred's contract, just imagine if he put up 13 points per and shot 33% from deep on six attempts per game. Brad's already making his mark as GM.

People are painting it like they are a sure thing this year, I don't know if I'd characterize them as such.


Celtics are an interesting team because it looks like they will be a defence first team this season. I don’t necessarily think they got better but they were already way ahead of us. I think they’re a sneaky team what could move up 1 or 2 spots or stay at the 7th. Also getting Schroeder for 5 million is a **** steal. The guy can flat out play, like Simmons people just let the playoff narratives take hold instead of evaluating players objectively. Stevens shouldn’t have gotten his GM spot, perfect example of failing upwards. I think Udoka will be fine. He’s coaching a team that has played with each other for the last 4 seasons? Boston will be fine.


If Schroeder could flat out play he wouldn't have signed for 5 million to be a likely bench player for a middling Eastern Conference team. When there is no market for a player that's often always a very bad sign.

Boston has a nice duo in Brown and Tatum but other then that their team is absolutely terrible. If a guy like Marcus Smart is your 3rd best player you're in a lot of trouble. I don't get why people think because you have a top 20 player you can't be a treadmill team. The Wizards have been a treadmill team for about 5 years now and during those 5 years they've had guys like Beal, Wall and Westbrook.

Boston has been a major disappointment and will likely be one again this year. I don't see them making it out of the 1st or 2nd round and if that's the case then do you really have a top 10 player? Top 10 players shouldn't be getting bounced in the 1st round.


Dame just did. Curry couldn’t even make the playoffs. Luka did. Lebron did.

Schroder is an upgrade over Kemba. Im not saying they’ll be an elite team or even a great team. I just don’t think they’re a treadmill team. Especially when their Stars are that young.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#437 » by everdiso » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:47 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
everdiso wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
Not really. Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, J Rich, Jaylen Brown, Schroder etc are all on really friendly trade deals.

The ages are all less than a year apart so miss me with that.

My evaluation on Tatum and Brown isn’t a hot take. It’s a common consensus that Tatum is a borderline top 10 player going into 2022 season and Brown is one of the best wings in the NBA.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree with this one.


You were wrong about the ages. Or you knew, but felt the need to make Tatum and Brown look younger than they actually are.

You were wrong about the capspace, and have now backtracked to saying they could make trades to create capspace.

So you clearly were wrong and or felt the need to lie about the easiest things to fact check.

Then we get to your opinion of those two players, which of course is always nebulous - but given that you already massaged the clearcut numbers above, it's clear that you're biased, and are the perfect example of the overrating of the Celtics that I mentioned.

The truth is they are a capped out team that finished .500 last year, and lost a number of key players to boot. Tatum could barely crack top-40 in any of the major impact stats, while guys like Smart fell apart in non-sheltered usage.



Not really.

GTJ - 22

Tatum - 23

OG - 24

Brown turning 25.

Nothing changed on my stance, they’ve spent the off season making moves so they can make a play for Beal next year.


That Tatum comment is something I’m not even going to reply to lol. Probably one of those dudes who think Pascal is better than Tatum.


Why did you feel you had to lie about their ages to make them look better than they are?
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#438 » by HumbleRen » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:56 pm

everdiso wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
everdiso wrote:
You were wrong about the ages. Or you knew, but felt the need to make Tatum and Brown look younger than they actually are.

You were wrong about the capspace, and have now backtracked to saying they could make trades to create capspace.

So you clearly were wrong and or felt the need to lie about the easiest things to fact check.

Then we get to your opinion of those two players, which of course is always nebulous - but given that you already massaged the clearcut numbers above, it's clear that you're biased, and are the perfect example of the overrating of the Celtics that I mentioned.

The truth is they are a capped out team that finished .500 last year, and lost a number of key players to boot. Tatum could barely crack top-40 in any of the major impact stats, while guys like Smart fell apart in non-sheltered usage.



Not really.

GTJ - 22

Tatum - 23

OG - 24

Brown turning 25.

Nothing changed on my stance, they’ve spent the off season making moves so they can make a play for Beal next year.


That Tatum comment is something I’m not even going to reply to lol. Probably one of those dudes who think Pascal is better than Tatum.


Why did you feel you had to lie about their ages to make them look better than they are?

You’re literally arguing about a couple months.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#439 » by Dalek » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:58 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
“The Celtics were among the teams that I know of that didn’t take COVID seriously,” Mannix said. “They continued to go out on the road and would find ways to skirt the rules at times when they were traveling. They didn’t take these protocols seriously — not as seriously as some other teams did.

“Washington, when they had all of their COVID issues back in January and early February, they blamed Boston. They complained to the league that the Celtics, because of what they had heard about players going out in Florida I believe it was, they believed they contracted their issues through the Celtics.”


That report stated one Celtics player convinced free agent Blake Griffin not to sign with the team for that reason. Winning may have not been the most important thing on the minds of the players. Some players didn’t take Stevens seriously, according to the report.



This team is in shambles. Beal is going to sign in Boston because of Tatum? He's liable to convince Tatum to force his way out to Washington. They just traded a guy that everyone in the league loves in Kemba Walker and replaced him with a guy that everyone in the league despises in Dennis Schroeder. I don't see their chemistry improving. They brought back Horford, who couldn't hold the room together the last time they were fighting in the locker room.


I think the hardest blow was replacing Irving, which you really can't. Kemba never lived up to expectation and doubt Dennis will play all that well on such a short term deal. As weird as Kyrie is, he is the guy that gets you over-the-hump and they totally misread that situation and got no compensation for it.

Their draft picks also never hit to the level you'd want. I think Aaron Nesmith was a bad call when they could have had Ty Maxey. Romeo Langford was such a bad pick when you could have had NAW, Thybulle, or Keldon Johnson. Pritchard is the only pick they didn't mess up.

I do think Brown, Tatum and Smart is a great core to work from, but they need a better player than Schroeder to step up. They still are strong playoff team, but it will be interesting to see how Udoka manages this team. Hard to see a first year coach turning this into a contender.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#440 » by Johnny Bball » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:10 pm

Clay Davis wrote:
720 wrote:
Clay Davis wrote:Okay I forgot how young Tatum and Brown are lol. Tatum is definitely high level, so is Brown, but despite their presence on the team the Celtics haven't felt like true contenders in the last few years and it still feels like they're like two or three pieces away from being contenders. Even then, I don't see them being better than the Nets, the Bucks, or the 76ers within the next two years or the Hawks after that.

The Celtics have two guys in their early 20s putting up monster numbers and both are locked up in long term deals. Those are the kind of pieces every rebuilding team would want on their roster. That's the kind of core many people here in this thread want. Give Masai a Tatum and Brown like duo and see what kind of magic he would pull off.


My entire point is that having mere pieces of the puzzle doesn't entail you're not treadmilling. The Celtics have been intending to contend for the past few seasons. You can twiddle around with the definition of 'treadmilling' but saying it just implies upside is rather vacuous, since you can't also imply some forms of upside are more restrictive or lower value than others... You'd need to work that into the definition too.

Sure, rebuilding teams would like them, but that's since it implies their rebuild is over as they have two young stars to build around. Fine and dandy, but if you don't surround them with the right talent and have a coherent plan to get it, you'll just be topping out at second round exits and feel pressured to reorganize your entire FO and coaching stuff, since it's clear you're essentially treadmilling. Getting close to being off the treadmill of not contending doesn't imply you're not treadmilling when you've been trying repetitively over three seasons to contend.

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Its okay for the Cs to treadmill and it not be treadmilling. In case you haven't notice the grass is always greener (it's their uniforms) and it's never a two way street. Reaching the ECF means the celtics aren't treadmilling even though the Raptors reaching the ECF was treadmilling, because the Celtics have won a title during theirs. Once you have one star player and one good player, it means you will win a title for sure. I hope I'm being clear here and this is all understandable.

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