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Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains

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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#461 » by 720 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:25 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:
720 wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:Again, for all the top end talent the Boston Celtics have, it was Marcus Smart & Robert Williams who stole a series from us against them. Not Tatum, not Brown, but Marcus Smart, Robert Williams and us playing Marc Gasol way too much for us to lose to all that top end talent while in a bubble. Big names are all everyone laments over and I kinda get it, but it always gets overblown out of proportion too, and a lot of the "Superstars" that y'all foam at the mouth over, still have their flaws.

lol that series came down to their top guy in Tatum who averaged 24 points 10 rebounds and 5 assist vs our top guy in Siakam who averaged 15 points 7 rebounds and 3 assists.

Not because Marcus Smart had a hot run and Robert Williams looked double speed compared to Gasol.


Again that's easy for you to say, but Marcus smart ain't going for 20+ a night while hitting 6 trey balls or Robert Williams monster double double as what, a 2nd year player at the time...

We were in all of those games with Tatum going for 24 n 10 while Pascal was 15 n 7 in a 7 game series that was decided by 5pts

A role player or two going off or playing above their heads happens in almost EVERY playoff series. The one constant should be your superstar/ top player.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#462 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:28 pm

Pointgod wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:Again, for all the top end talent the Boston Celtics have, it was Marcus Smart & Robert Williams who stole a series from us against them. Not Tatum, not Brown, but Marcus Smart, Robert Williams and us playing Marc Gasol way too much for us to lose to all that top end talent while in a bubble. Big names are all everyone laments over and I kinda get it, but it always gets overblown out of proportion too, and a lot of the "Superstars" that y'all foam at the mouth over, still have their flaws.


NBA is a superstar driven league. Always had been and always will be. To think at one point the Celtics had:
Kyrie
Horford
Gordon Hayward - although he was coming off an injury
Tatum
Smart
Brown
Rozier
Marcus Morris
Robert Williams
Daniel Theis

And they still got bounced in the second round by Milwaukee. Raptors fans of all people should recognize the effect that a superstar has on a team.


But even by your standards, the Celtics had all those superstars and still lost ? So what is it?

Yeah raps fans know about Kawhi getting us over the hump, but we still needed 30 from Pascal opening game of the finals.

We still needed FVV to come alive and bomb 3s for us.

We still needed to execute the Lowry Ibaka 2-man game that GS had no answers for

We still needed Lowry to snapp game 6.

It was boogie cousins who stole game 2 for GSW. Boogie freaking cousins, he was on one leg then and is currently out of the league. .

Again, we all overstate the impact of the stars or undersell the importance of everyone else.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#463 » by Los_29 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:28 pm

Pointgod wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
Celtics are an interesting team because it looks like they will be a defence first team this season. I don’t necessarily think they got better but they were already way ahead of us. I think they’re a sneaky team what could move up 1 or 2 spots or stay at the 7th. Also getting Schroeder for 5 million is a **** steal. The guy can flat out play, like Simmons people just let the playoff narratives take hold instead of evaluating players objectively. Stevens shouldn’t have gotten his GM spot, perfect example of failing upwards. I think Udoka will be fine. He’s coaching a team that has played with each other for the last 4 seasons? Boston will be fine.


If Schroeder could flat out play he wouldn't have signed for 5 million to be a likely bench player for a middling Eastern Conference team. When there is no market for a player that's often always a very bad sign.

Boston has a nice duo in Brown and Tatum but other then that their team is absolutely terrible. If a guy like Marcus Smart is your 3rd best player you're in a lot of trouble. I don't get why people think because you have a top 20 player you can't be a treadmill team. The Wizards have been a treadmill team for about 5 years now and during those 5 years they've had guys like Beal, Wall and Westbrook.

Boston has been a major disappointment and will likely be one again this year. I don't see them making it out of the 1st or 2nd round and if that's the case then do you really have a top 10 player? Top 10 players shouldn't be getting bounced in the 1st round.


Since drafting Jaylen Brown, the Celtics have had the following performance:
2017 - ECF
2018 - ECF
2019 - second round exit
2020 - ECF
2021 - first round exit.

I loath to give the Celtics any credit but there’s literally no way you can argue that this results have been disappointing. Their two best players haven’t even hit their prime yet. The problem is that the idiot Danny Ainge overvalued his assets and didn’t make a trade to put them over the top to beat Lebron. The Celtics would have been more successful if not for Danny Ainge.

Tatum is only 22 coming off of a 26, 7 and 4 season. It’s not inconceivable that he could have a Bradley Beal type season on the next couple of years and Brown is 24 coming off a 25,6 and 3 season. I think that’s he’s ceiling as a scorer but he can become more consistent and improve his defence. The Celtics can get improvements from their two best players and if their front office is willing to move assets, they can get that third star.


They haven't gotten over the hump. They did go to the ECF in 2020 but they barely scraped by us and our "terrible" core of FVV, Pascal, Lowry and OG then they got handled with relative ease by the Heat. Last year they were downright terrible and that was with Tatum and Brown playing more games than any of our best players.

You're supposed to be able to learn from your experiences. They were in 2 ECF's prior to 2020. To lose to a team like the Heat is just inexcusable. That was their chance and they might not ever get that chance again.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#464 » by ATLTimekeeper » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:29 pm

720 wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
Thank you.


Reminds me of when the Wizards swept us with 21 year old Bradley Beal and 24 year old John Wall. What was the reality of that situation again?

Didn't know the Wizards had Masai and Nurse though.


?
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#465 » by 720 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:32 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
720 wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Reminds me of when the Wizards swept us with 21 year old Bradley Beal and 24 year old John Wall. What was the reality of that situation again?

Didn't know the Wizards had Masai and Nurse though.


?

In the posts above yours another guy and I were talking about how we can't compare other front offices to ours and how if you give Masai a top prospect to work with it would be different from other organizations (the Timberwolves with Towns for example and how they're wasting his years). I thought you were the guy I was originally talking to.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#466 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:33 pm

That series was all Pierce, he was the difference.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#467 » by ATLTimekeeper » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:34 pm

Pointgod wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
Thank you.


Reminds me of when the Wizards swept us with 21 year old Bradley Beal and 24 year old John Wall. What was the reality of that situation again?


Bradley Beal put up 17,3,3 as a 21 year old. John Wall put up 17,4,10 at 24 years old. The Tatum and Brown obviously has a much higher ceiling based of production at the same age. But if your argument is that those Wizards are the perfect example of how to not build a team around 2 young superstars and a major injury to one of your two core players can pretty much screw any team, then I see your point.


Meh, Brown and Tatum were both called out by the organization for boosting their scoring numbers last year. My argument is that it's a waste of time to look at other team's situations in envy. The same people were jealous of Rob Hennigan's rebuild in Orlando while Masai kept running it back with Kyle and DeMar. They'll just jump from situation to situation, and Boston is no different.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#468 » by Los_29 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:36 pm

everdiso wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
everdiso wrote:
Why did you feel you had to lie about their ages to make them look better than they are?

You’re literally arguing about a couple months.


You felt the need to lie about their age to make them look better.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of your confidence in your assessment of them.


Yeah not only that is it's not a couple of months. It's nearly an entire year. :lol:

Brown is born in October/1996 and OG is born in July/97.

Tatum is born in March/1998 and GTJ is born in January/1999.

That's a full year worth of development so NO they are NOT the same age. And no one is saying that GTJ is going to morph into Jayson Tatum but I think it's important that we are honest and don't lie about ages to try and strengthen our arguments.

And the reality is, the Celtics were far healthier than us last year and their two best players played far more games than our best players. Despite that, the Celtics barely made the playoffs and we had to tank just to not get the play-in game.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#469 » by HumbleRen » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:36 pm

everdiso wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
everdiso wrote:
Why did you feel you had to lie about their ages to make them look better than they are?

You’re literally arguing about a couple months.


You felt the need to lie about their age to make them look better.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of your confidence in your assessment of them.


No, not really. I’m fully aware of how great Tatum and Brown are.

I know it’s hard for homers to look at other teams and properly assess talent so I’ll cut you some slack.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#470 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:37 pm

720 wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:
720 wrote:lol that series came down to their top guy in Tatum who averaged 24 points 10 rebounds and 5 assist vs our top guy in Siakam who averaged 15 points 7 rebounds and 3 assists.

Not because Marcus Smart had a hot run and Robert Williams looked double speed compared to Gasol.


Again that's easy for you to say, but Marcus smart ain't going for 20+ a night while hitting 6 trey balls or Robert Williams monster double double as what, a 2nd year player at the time...

We were in all of those games with Tatum going for 24 n 10 while Pascal was 15 n 7 in a 7 game series that was decided by 5pts

A role player or two going off or playing above their heads happens in almost EVERY playoff series. The one constant should be your superstar/ top player.


I just see it from the other side, your "superstar" is going to be game planned for, doubled, trapped, have all the attn on them during the playoffs. To expect them to a superstar night in night out under those conditions is just asking yourself for trouble...

Asking your secondary players who aren't getting all that attention, who aren't getting trapped and doubled, to produce well is exactly what you want and need to get the job done.

Again for every Trey young / Giannis / Tatum ECT ECT ECT I can show you an afterthought like a Gallo n Lou will / Brook Lopez / Marcus smart who stole games for their respected teams...

Yeah your stars got to be stars, that's what's you pay them for, so I get it. But we've seen the stars crash and burn as well...

James harden has more sub 40% FG playoff series than anyone else, and he's a top 5 SUPERSTAR
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#471 » by 720 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:39 pm

We're comparing Tatum and GTJr, ****'s getting wild here. :lol:
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#472 » by 720 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:41 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:
720 wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:
Again that's easy for you to say, but Marcus smart ain't going for 20+ a night while hitting 6 trey balls or Robert Williams monster double double as what, a 2nd year player at the time...

We were in all of those games with Tatum going for 24 n 10 while Pascal was 15 n 7 in a 7 game series that was decided by 5pts

A role player or two going off or playing above their heads happens in almost EVERY playoff series. The one constant should be your superstar/ top player.


I just see it from the other side, your "superstar" is going to be game planned for, doubled, trapped, have all the attn on them during the playoffs. To expect them to a superstar night in night out under those conditions is just asking yourself for trouble...

Asking your secondary players who aren't getting all that attention, who aren't getting trapped and doubled, to produce well is exactly what you want and need to get the job done.

Again for every Trey young / Giannis / Tatum ECT ECT ECT I can show you an afterthought like a Gallo n Lou will / Brook Lopez / Marcus smart who stole games for their respected teams...

Yeah your stars got to be stars, that's what's you pay them for, so I get it. But we've seen the stars crash and burn as well...

James harden has more sub 40% FG playoff series than anyone else, and he's a top 5 SUPERSTAR

That's all I'm saying.

We don't have a Tatum level guy on our team.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#473 » by HumbleRen » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:41 pm

720 wrote:We're comparing Tatum and GTJr, ****'s getting wild here. :lol:

**** insane lol.

Now they’re saying a 22 year old Tatum beating one of the best raptors iteration isn’t impressive despite not having Hayward that entire series lol.

It’s getting real spooky in here.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#474 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:47 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
720 wrote:We're comparing Tatum and GTJr, ****'s getting wild here. :lol:

**** insane lol.

Now they’re saying a 22 year old Tatum beating one of the best raptors iteration isn’t impressive despite not having Hayward that entire series lol.

It’s getting real spooky in here.

To be clear, I never said that.

I'm just saying I'm not writing him off at 22.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#475 » by HumbleRen » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:53 pm

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
720 wrote:We're comparing Tatum and GTJr, ****'s getting wild here. :lol:

**** insane lol.

Now they’re saying a 22 year old Tatum beating one of the best raptors iteration isn’t impressive despite not having Hayward that entire series lol.

It’s getting real spooky in here.

To be clear, I never said that.

I'm just saying I'm not writing him off at 22.


I’m not either, I’m just saying there’s a STARK difference between GTJ and Tatum and even to an extent, Brown and OG despite being basically the same age.

I just don’t think we can call them a treadmill team when their core is relatively the same age as our young core barring Scottie Barnes.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#476 » by everdiso » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:00 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
everdiso wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:You’re literally arguing about a couple months.


You felt the need to lie about their age to make them look better.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of your confidence in your assessment of them.


No, not really. I’m fully aware of how great Tatum and Brown are.

I know it’s hard for homers to look at other teams and properly assess talent so I’ll cut you some slack.


You were so confident about how great they were that you felt the need to lie about their ages to make them look better than they are

Weird thing for the "objective" guy to do.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#477 » by Los_29 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:14 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
everdiso wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:You’re literally arguing about a couple months.


You felt the need to lie about their age to make them look better.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of your confidence in your assessment of them.


No, not really. I’m fully aware of how great Tatum and Brown are.

I know it’s hard for homers to look at other teams and properly assess talent so I’ll cut you some slack.


Well they clearly aren't that great considering they barely made the playoffs.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#478 » by HumbleRen » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:18 pm

everdiso wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
everdiso wrote:
You felt the need to lie about their age to make them look better.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of your confidence in your assessment of them.


No, not really. I’m fully aware of how great Tatum and Brown are.

I know it’s hard for homers to look at other teams and properly assess talent so I’ll cut you some slack.


You were so confident about how great they were that you felt the need to lie about their ages to make them look better than they are

Weird thing for the "objective" guy to do.


If we’re talking about months and not years, then yes I’m going to say the same age.

I don’t need to lie about Tatum and Brown’s age to make them look better against OG and GTJ.

:lol: :lol:
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#479 » by Steelo Green » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:18 pm

People have so much sympathy for us and COVID but not for the Celtics who literally had it the worst in the league and still made the playoffs.

The Celtics beat us just a year ago and that was with Kyle, Marc and Serge.

They should comfortably win 50 barring some crazy injuries.
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Re: Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains 

Post#480 » by everdiso » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:30 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
everdiso wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
No, not really. I’m fully aware of how great Tatum and Brown are.

I know it’s hard for homers to look at other teams and properly assess talent so I’ll cut you some slack.


You were so confident about how great they were that you felt the need to lie about their ages to make them look better than they are

Weird thing for the "objective" guy to do.


If we’re talking about months and not years, then yes I’m going to say the same age.

I don’t need to lie about Tatum and Brown’s age to make them look better against OG and GTJ.

:lol: :lol:


Why are you comparing them to OG and GTJ?
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