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ruckus wrote:I swear there must be some undercover Celtics fans on this board.

That being said, I really like the Brown/Tatum pairing. They're close to the perfect 3/4 thats needed for the modern era.

However, while OG and Siakam are at least a tier below, they aren't that far off. And when you add Smart and Fred into the mix, it makes the comparison even closer.

Now when you consider the draft capital spent to acquire each "big 3", Toronto is definitely getting better value for their money.

And although he is on a different timeline, once you add Scottie to the mix, I'd say that puts us ahead of the Celts in terms of potential future success.

One of those guys should not be a 4 in today's nba. They should be the 2/3 combo

God Squad wrote:

Steelo Green wrote:People have so much sympathy for us and COVID but not for the Celtics who literally had it the worst in the league and still made the playoffs.

The Celtics beat us just a year ago and that was with Kyle, Marc and Serge.

They should comfortably win 50 barring some crazy injuries.

I'm not going to say their going to win 50 games, But the homers are in full effect in this thread. Never in my life did I expect to see Raps fans saying GTJ stacks up to Tatum, or that Brown and Tatum (particular) aren't all star prospects. Then they bring up "But they missed the playoffs". I personally don't like their roster at all and do think they are overrated per say. But I don't think that's an indictment on Tatum or Brown as I think they are studs.

They’re just a young team who is about to break out.

Maybe not Milwaukee level but they will become a top echelon team. I think team building plays a big factor in them not growing but Tatum is 23 and already a top 15-20 player.

The way people are talking about Boston I thought for sure they'd be talking as if they are among the elite teams in the conference and yet those same people are saying Boston is a 45 win team.

If Brown and Tatum are as good as you say they are then winning 45 games would be a massive disappointment. 45 wins this year would put them in the same position as last year, in the play-in game.

Steelo Green wrote:

God Squad wrote:

Steelo Green wrote:People have so much sympathy for us and COVID but not for the Celtics who literally had it the worst in the league and still made the playoffs.

The Celtics beat us just a year ago and that was with Kyle, Marc and Serge.

They should comfortably win 50 barring some crazy injuries.

I'm not going to say their going to win 50 games, But the homers are in full effect in this thread. Never in my life did I expect to see Raps fans saying GTJ stacks up to Tatum, or that Brown and Tatum (particular) aren't all star prospects. Then they bring up "But they missed the playoffs". I personally don't like their roster at all and do think they are overrated per say. But I don't think that's an indictment on Tatum or Brown as I think they are studs.

They’re just a young team who is about to break out.

Maybe not Milwaukee level but they will become a top echelon team. I think team building plays a big factor in them not growing but Tatum is 23 and already a top 15-20 player.

Hard to tell, they've been pretty stagnant for the last 3 years or so. Kemba was a failure, they lack a good big other than a 35 year old Horford and not the best supporting cast. A good solid team, but not enough to get over the hump.

Under that presumption, shouldn't they tank according to your logic?

HumbleRen wrote:

Clay Davis wrote:

God Squad wrote:I'm not going to say their going to win 50 games, But the homers are in full effect in this thread. Never in my life did I expect to see Raps fans saying GTJ stacks up to Tatum, or that Brown and Tatum (particular) aren't all star prospects. Then they bring up "But they missed the playoffs". I personally don't like their roster at all and do think they are overrated per say. But I don't think that's an indictment on Tatum or Brown as I think they are studs.

Do you think Tatum and Brown are a championship-level duo?

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Really depends on the roster tbh.

If we replaced FVV and Siakam in the 2019/2020 playoffs with Brown and Tatum, I think we make the finals and most likely win it.

If we just simply replace FVV and Siakam with Brown/Tatum going into 2021/2022, we instantly have the best young core in the NBA and become contenders for the next decade or so.

I think their performance in 2020 was pretty indicative of their potential; we didn't have anyone on the level of Kemba when it came to shouldering the offensive load and they had an all-defense player in the front court in Marcus Smart. A lot of things would have to go right for those two to win a championship with us against a very good Lakers team.

To circle back to the original discussion, if the line between being a contender and being a treadmill team is having a well-rounded team, you really can't discount the value of developing players like FVV, Siakam, OG, etc who, while they may not be tier 1 scorers, are proven talents when it comes to getting the most out of the roster. This entire discussion hasn't done anything to lessen my conviction that having good (but not elite, since everyone would agree that Boston's top-end talent is a level below what we've seen from other teams in the past like OKC or Philly) top-end talent isn't necessarily enough to escape being a treadmill team. A team reaching its potential means having a well-rounded roster but that obviously is not an easy thing to come by.

Clay Davis wrote:

God Squad wrote:

Steelo Green wrote:People have so much sympathy for us and COVID but not for the Celtics who literally had it the worst in the league and still made the playoffs.

The Celtics beat us just a year ago and that was with Kyle, Marc and Serge.

They should comfortably win 50 barring some crazy injuries.

I'm not going to say their going to win 50 games, But the homers are in full effect in this thread. Never in my life did I expect to see Raps fans saying GTJ stacks up to Tatum, or that Brown and Tatum (particular) aren't all star prospects. Then they bring up "But they missed the playoffs". I personally don't like their roster at all and do think they are overrated per say. But I don't think that's an indictment on Tatum or Brown as I think they are studs.

Do you think Tatum and Brown are a championship-level duo?

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A 23 year old and 24 year old who are both all-stars? Definitely. Their issue is figuring it out and getting the right pieces to surround them.

They’ve already been to a couple conference finals.

Steelo Green wrote:

Clay Davis wrote:

God Squad wrote:I'm not going to say their going to win 50 games, But the homers are in full effect in this thread. Never in my life did I expect to see Raps fans saying GTJ stacks up to Tatum, or that Brown and Tatum (particular) aren't all star prospects. Then they bring up "But they missed the playoffs". I personally don't like their roster at all and do think they are overrated per say. But I don't think that's an indictment on Tatum or Brown as I think they are studs.

Do you think Tatum and Brown are a championship-level duo?

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A 23 year old and 24 year old who are both all-stars? Definitely. Their issue is figuring it out and getting the right pieces to surround them.

They’ve already been to a couple conference finals.

Have they ever been to the ECF as the teams two best players though? Definitely not in 2017 and 2018. In 2020, Brown and Tatum were the teams two best players in the playoffs due to the struggles of Kemba but throughout the year Kemba not Brown was the teams 2nd best player. And they weren't good enough to get past the Miami Heat which shouldn't have been a difficult matchup for any elite team.

Steelo Green wrote:

Clay Davis wrote:

God Squad wrote:I'm not going to say their going to win 50 games, But the homers are in full effect in this thread. Never in my life did I expect to see Raps fans saying GTJ stacks up to Tatum, or that Brown and Tatum (particular) aren't all star prospects. Then they bring up "But they missed the playoffs". I personally don't like their roster at all and do think they are overrated per say. But I don't think that's an indictment on Tatum or Brown as I think they are studs.

Do you think Tatum and Brown are a championship-level duo?

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using RealGM mobile app

A 23 year old and 24 year old who are both all-stars? Definitely. Their issue is figuring it out and getting the right pieces to surround them.

They’ve already been to a couple conference finals.

On their own they are not enough to contend then; they need the ideal supporting cast. What are they without that supporting cast?

I think it's fair to argue that the Celtics, without the ideal supporting cast, are a treadmill team (since they aren't good enough to contend). The line between them being a treadmill team and a contending team is finding the perfect supporting cast, which is fair, but in that case you haven't really provided a good argument against the stance that top-end talent isn't necessarily enough to escape being a treadmill team.

To be honest, I don't see Lebron + AD potential, Curry + Klay potential, or PG + Kawhi potential with them. Both of them seem good but it's not the case that they're both completely transcendent. Maybe they prove me wrong but I haven't seen enough from them to make me doubt myself.

Clay Davis wrote:

Steelo Green wrote:

Clay Davis wrote:Do you think Tatum and Brown are a championship-level duo?

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A 23 year old and 24 year old who are both all-stars? Definitely. Their issue is figuring it out and getting the right pieces to surround them.

They’ve already been to a couple conference finals.

On their own they are not enough to contend then; they need the ideal supporting cast. What are they without that supporting cast?

I think it's fair to argue that the Celtics, without the ideal supporting cast, are a treadmill team (since they aren't good enough to contend). The line between them being a treadmill team and a contending team is finding the perfect supporting cast, which is fair, but in that case you haven't really provided a good argument against the stance that top-end talent isn't necessarily enough to escape being a treadmill team.

To be honest, I don't see Lebron + AD potential, Curry + Klay potential, or PG + Kawhi potential with them. Both of them seem good but it's not the case that they're both completely transcendent. Maybe they prove me wrong but I haven't seen enough from them to make me doubt myself.

Tatum/Brown is a great duo, both can defend and score efficiently. That said, the rest of the roster looks like crap and they're capped out.....a washed up Horford, Smart and a bunch of journeymen arent going to get you very far. That team the way it looks right now is running the risk of becoming like the Blazers. A perennial 50-win team that can make some noise in the playoffs but not really a legit contender....what the Raps with Derozan/Lowry were basically.

It does seem like some fans have a tendency to think a strong supporting cast is easy to put together and can happen overnight as long as you have a star. In reality, a strong supporting cast can take years to put together and is not a simple task.

KrazyP wrote:

Clay Davis wrote:

Steelo Green wrote:A 23 year old and 24 year old who are both all-stars? Definitely. Their issue is figuring it out and getting the right pieces to surround them.

They’ve already been to a couple conference finals.

On their own they are not enough to contend then; they need the ideal supporting cast. What are they without that supporting cast?

I think it's fair to argue that the Celtics, without the ideal supporting cast, are a treadmill team (since they aren't good enough to contend). The line between them being a treadmill team and a contending team is finding the perfect supporting cast, which is fair, but in that case you haven't really provided a good argument against the stance that top-end talent isn't necessarily enough to escape being a treadmill team.

To be honest, I don't see Lebron + AD potential, Curry + Klay potential, or PG + Kawhi potential with them. Both of them seem good but it's not the case that they're both completely transcendent. Maybe they prove me wrong but I haven't seen enough from them to make me doubt myself.

Tatum/Brown is a great duo, both can defend and score efficiently. That said, the rest of the roster looks like crap and they're capped out.....a washed up Horford, Smart and a bunch of journeymen arent going to get you very far. That team the way it looks right now is running the risk of becoming like the Blazers. A perennial 50-win team that can make some noise in the playoffs but not really a legit contender....what the Raps with Derozan/Lowry were basically.

It does seem like some fans have a tendency to think a strong supporting cast is easy to put together and can happen overnight as long as you have a star. In reality, a strong supporting cast can take years to put together and is not a simple task.

Exactly. We spent years treadmilling, having deep runs that proved instrumental in molding the We The North Raptors into dependable role players for a contending team. Perhaps the best route will eventually be for Boston to package Brown for an actual tier 1 superstar.

If Ainge would've packaged picks and some of their young assets (Brown) they'd have a championship right now. He completely destroyed that team. Having all those lottery picks while still contending and still not having a championship is inexcusable.

KrazyP wrote:

Clay Davis wrote:

Steelo Green wrote:A 23 year old and 24 year old who are both all-stars? Definitely. Their issue is figuring it out and getting the right pieces to surround them.

They’ve already been to a couple conference finals.

On their own they are not enough to contend then; they need the ideal supporting cast. What are they without that supporting cast?

I think it's fair to argue that the Celtics, without the ideal supporting cast, are a treadmill team (since they aren't good enough to contend). The line between them being a treadmill team and a contending team is finding the perfect supporting cast, which is fair, but in that case you haven't really provided a good argument against the stance that top-end talent isn't necessarily enough to escape being a treadmill team.

To be honest, I don't see Lebron + AD potential, Curry + Klay potential, or PG + Kawhi potential with them. Both of them seem good but it's not the case that they're both completely transcendent. Maybe they prove me wrong but I haven't seen enough from them to make me doubt myself.

Tatum/Brown is a great duo, both can defend and score efficiently. That said, the rest of the roster looks like crap and they're capped out.....a washed up Horford, Smart and a bunch of journeymen arent going to get you very far. That team the way it looks right now is running the risk of becoming like the Blazers. A perennial 50-win team that can make some noise in the playoffs but not really a legit contender....what the Raps with Derozan/Lowry were basically.

It does seem like some fans have a tendency to think a strong supporting cast is easy to put together and can happen overnight as long as you have a star. In reality, a strong supporting cast can take years to put together and is not a simple task.

There’s no reason to believe that the Celtics couldn’t put together a 2021 Phoenix or 2020 Miami Heat type offseason when they put together a team that slips into the finals. The Celtics already have the hardest thing to get a superstar player that’s also a killer with the game on the line.

Pointgod wrote:

KrazyP wrote:

Clay Davis wrote:
On their own they are not enough to contend then; they need the ideal supporting cast. What are they without that supporting cast?

I think it's fair to argue that the Celtics, without the ideal supporting cast, are a treadmill team (since they aren't good enough to contend). The line between them being a treadmill team and a contending team is finding the perfect supporting cast, which is fair, but in that case you haven't really provided a good argument against the stance that top-end talent isn't necessarily enough to escape being a treadmill team.

To be honest, I don't see Lebron + AD potential, Curry + Klay potential, or PG + Kawhi potential with them. Both of them seem good but it's not the case that they're both completely transcendent. Maybe they prove me wrong but I haven't seen enough from them to make me doubt myself.

Tatum/Brown is a great duo, both can defend and score efficiently. That said, the rest of the roster looks like crap and they're capped out.....a washed up Horford, Smart and a bunch of journeymen arent going to get you very far. That team the way it looks right now is running the risk of becoming like the Blazers. A perennial 50-win team that can make some noise in the playoffs but not really a legit contender....what the Raps with Derozan/Lowry were basically.

It does seem like some fans have a tendency to think a strong supporting cast is easy to put together and can happen overnight as long as you have a star. In reality, a strong supporting cast can take years to put together and is not a simple task.

There’s no reason to believe that the Celtics couldn’t put together a 2021 Phoenix or 2020 Miami Heat type offseason when they put together a team that slips into the finals. The Celtics already have the hardest thing to get a superstar player that’s also a killer with the game on the line.

You could say that about basically every other team with a superstar. You could say it about the Blazers. Why not say it about the Timberwolves? Doesn't KAT have the same label of being a no-impact scorer that Booker recently shedded?

Regardless of the record, I'm fully expecting to enjoy this team in the upcoming season.

You can't have a championship team every year, but it can be great to follow the story of a young team maturing into a contender, with the highs and lows along the way. Enjoy it for what it is.. trust that Masai is steering things in the right direction.

Los_29 wrote:If Ainge would've packaged picks and some of their young assets (Brown) they'd have a championship right now. He completely destroyed that team. Having all those lottery picks while still contending and still not having a championship is inexcusable.

The current Celtics remind me of the Derozan/Lowry Raptors.

Imo they don't have a superstar on that team. They will need to either sign someone better than Tatum and Brown or trade one of Brown or Tatum for someone better than both of them. That team isn't winning anything with Tatum as the best player on the team.

Tha Cynic wrote:

Los_29 wrote:If Ainge would've packaged picks and some of their young assets (Brown) they'd have a championship right now. He completely destroyed that team. Having all those lottery picks while still contending and still not having a championship is inexcusable.

The current Celtics remind me of the Derozan/Lowry Raptors.

Imo they don't have a superstar on that team. They will need to either sign someone better than Tatum and Brown or trade one of Brown or Tatum for someone better than both of them. That team isn't winning anything with Tatum as the best player on the team.

Tatum is a superstar.

Los_29 wrote:If Ainge would've packaged picks and some of their young assets (Brown) they'd have a championship right now. He completely destroyed that team. Having all those lottery picks while still contending and still not having a championship is inexcusable.

They could have easily traded for Harden. That was such a huge missed opportunity.

Raps in 4 wrote:

Tha Cynic wrote:

Los_29 wrote:If Ainge would've packaged picks and some of their young assets (Brown) they'd have a championship right now. He completely destroyed that team. Having all those lottery picks while still contending and still not having a championship is inexcusable.

The current Celtics remind me of the Derozan/Lowry Raptors.

Imo they don't have a superstar on that team. They will need to either sign someone better than Tatum and Brown or trade one of Brown or Tatum for someone better than both of them. That team isn't winning anything with Tatum as the best player on the team.

Tatum is a superstar.

Never has the the "superstar" label been handed out so easily.

everdiso wrote:

Raps in 4 wrote:

Tha Cynic wrote:
The current Celtics remind me of the Derozan/Lowry Raptors.

Imo they don't have a superstar on that team. They will need to either sign someone better than Tatum and Brown or trade one of Brown or Tatum for someone better than both of them. That team isn't winning anything with Tatum as the best player on the team.

Tatum is a superstar.

Never has the the "superstar" label been handed out so easily.

He's a top-10 player. He's a great scorer and defender who can reliably take over games. That qualifies him as a superstar. He's not an MVP candidate, but he's in the immediate next tier.

Raps in 4 wrote:

everdiso wrote:

Raps in 4 wrote:
Tatum is a superstar.

Never has the the "superstar" label been handed out so easily.

He's a top-10 player. He's a great scorer and defender who can reliably take over games. That qualifies him as a superstar. He's not an MVP candidate, but he's in the immediate next tier.

LeBron, KD, Giannis, Harden, AD, Kawhi, Jokic, Curry, Embiid, Dame, Beal, Luka are all comfortably better than him.

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