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Pascal Interview

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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#21 » by PerfectJab » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:13 pm

pingpongrac wrote:
PerfectJab wrote:
Badonkadonk wrote:Nice to hear his shoulder is coming along well.

I still don't understand why some don't give him the benefit of the doubt on a lost season. Sounds like he had COVID pretty bad.


In 2020 it had a lot to do with expectations. In the beginning of the season, statistically it looked like he had hit another level. A level that was bound for superstardom. We all know how that ended as he progressively got worse as time went by.

Fast forward to this past season, fresh on the mind the blunders from the previous season. He became less efficient and his defense weakened. A 30,000,000 per year player is expected to play better even with the troubles he faced. He is no longer rated as a prospect would be and his salary and usage reflects this. Prospects get the benefit of the doubt due to upside. Growing pains is a part of their development. On the flipside a 30,000,0000 a year player is supposed to already be there!

I hope he turns it around... The criticism is warranted, let's just hope it's not a long term reality of the type of player he is.


Some criticism is warranted, but not the ridiculous amount that Siakam has been receiving for the last 12+ months. He's been a 22/7/4 player with top 5 defence at his position the last two seasons. I don't know what more people expect aside from improved efficiency (which is largely because his three-point shot disappeared for the last ~12 months) and a bit more playmaking. He already does so many things at a high level on both ends of the floor that seemingly goes unnoticed.


I wouldn't say it's just his shot from range. In the past he was able to create his own shot with his spin move which has long been figured out. He was able to get easy buckets on the fast break that helped with his efficiency. Despite these being taken away, he's shooting at the same volume without the efficiency that warranted it. He definitely forces his shots.

He needs to add additional offense to his arsenal. As a number one option there is no excuse to having nothing automatic.

Also... 22/7/4 is a decent stat line until you see that it is on 17.7 per (81st in the league) at the forward position.

51 out of 68 at the PF position in terms of TS%.

As it stands right now, he really needs to improve.
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#22 » by Dennis 37 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:23 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:Ben Simmons fans in shambles.


What are Ben Simmons fans?
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#23 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:51 pm

The interesting part was that he injured the shoulder early in the year, it seems to have been a running thing.

It might explain the shooting.
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#24 » by OakleyDokely » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:30 pm

He's already 9th on the Raptors all-time scoring list and he will likey be 7th on the list by the end of the year. He's 4th all-time in playoff points.
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#25 » by pingpongrac » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:00 pm

PerfectJab wrote:
pingpongrac wrote:
PerfectJab wrote:
In 2020 it had a lot to do with expectations. In the beginning of the season, statistically it looked like he had hit another level. A level that was bound for superstardom. We all know how that ended as he progressively got worse as time went by.

Fast forward to this past season, fresh on the mind the blunders from the previous season. He became less efficient and his defense weakened. A 30,000,000 per year player is expected to play better even with the troubles he faced. He is no longer rated as a prospect would be and his salary and usage reflects this. Prospects get the benefit of the doubt due to upside. Growing pains is a part of their development. On the flipside a 30,000,0000 a year player is supposed to already be there!

I hope he turns it around... The criticism is warranted, let's just hope it's not a long term reality of the type of player he is.


Some criticism is warranted, but not the ridiculous amount that Siakam has been receiving for the last 12+ months. He's been a 22/7/4 player with top 5 defence at his position the last two seasons. I don't know what more people expect aside from improved efficiency (which is largely because his three-point shot disappeared for the last ~12 months) and a bit more playmaking. He already does so many things at a high level on both ends of the floor that seemingly goes unnoticed.


I wouldn't say it's just his shot from range. In the past he was able to create his own shot with his spin move which has long been figured out. He was able to get easy buckets on the fast break that helped with his efficiency. Despite these being taken away, he's shooting at the same volume without the efficiency that warranted it. He definitely forces his shots.

He needs to add additional offense to his arsenal. As a number one option there is no excuse to having nothing automatic.

Also... 22/7/4 is a decent stat line until you see that it is on 17.7 per (81st in the league) at the forward position.

51 out of 68 at the PF position in terms of TS%.

As it stands right now, he really needs to improve.
Except it really is just his outside shot that fell off last season and he was very good everywhere else. If he gets the outside shooting touch back, he's a top 20 player again.

Siakam in 2019/20: 64% in the restricted area, 38% in the paint (non-RA), 31% in the midrange, 36% behind the arc

Siakam in 2020/21: 63% in the restricted area, 43% in the paint (non-RA), 39% in the midrange, 30% behind the arc

If Siakam shot the same percentage on his 3FGA as the two seasons prior (~36.5%), he would have finished last season averaging 22.3/7.2/4.5 on 57 TS%. Suddenly his numbers look like that of a sure-fire all-star and even without that improvement he's still a top 5 PF for sure when considering both ends of the floor.

The hate is ridiculous. So many people on this board talk of Siakam like he's not even a top 40 player.
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#26 » by rarefind » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:49 pm

Can he win MIP again? lol
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#27 » by PerfectJab » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:18 am

pingpongrac wrote:
PerfectJab wrote:
pingpongrac wrote:
Some criticism is warranted, but not the ridiculous amount that Siakam has been receiving for the last 12+ months. He's been a 22/7/4 player with top 5 defence at his position the last two seasons. I don't know what more people expect aside from improved efficiency (which is largely because his three-point shot disappeared for the last ~12 months) and a bit more playmaking. He already does so many things at a high level on both ends of the floor that seemingly goes unnoticed.


I wouldn't say it's just his shot from range. In the past he was able to create his own shot with his spin move which has long been figured out. He was able to get easy buckets on the fast break that helped with his efficiency. Despite these being taken away, he's shooting at the same volume without the efficiency that warranted it. He definitely forces his shots.

He needs to add additional offense to his arsenal. As a number one option there is no excuse to having nothing automatic.

Also... 22/7/4 is a decent stat line until you see that it is on 17.7 per (81st in the league) at the forward position.

51 out of 68 at the PF position in terms of TS%.

As it stands right now, he really needs to improve.
Except it really is just his outside shot that fell off last season and he was very good everywhere else. If he gets the outside shooting touch back, he's a top 20 player again.

Siakam in 2019/20: 64% in the restricted area, 38% in the paint (non-RA), 31% in the midrange, 36% behind the arc

Siakam in 2020/21: 63% in the restricted area, 43% in the paint (non-RA), 39% in the midrange, 30% behind the arc

If Siakam shot the same percentage on his 3FGA as the two seasons prior (~36.5%), he would have finished last season averaging 22.3/7.2/4.5 on 57 TS%. Suddenly his numbers look like that of a sure-fire all-star and even without that improvement he's still a top 5 PF for sure when considering both ends of the floor.

The hate is ridiculous. So many people on this board talk of Siakam like he's not even a top 40 player.


I don't know if you can call it hate, more basing what he is on what he has done vs what he may potentially do. As it stands right now it is arguable that he is a top 40 player and if he is it's right at the 40.

There are a lot of stats we can throw at each other (yours.. raw stats, mine.. advanced stats based on efficiency) but I would say PER is pretty indicative of what a player is, especially with high usage. He hasn't cracked over 20 (playoffs or reg season) once in his career even as the number one option for 2 years. That's not good.. I can't think of a single player with a usage % over 25% in the forward position that is less efficient can you? If you can, what type of player is he? Probably not very efficient.

I'll end it by saying I think it's amazing what he has done. He was supposed to be a scrub. Just calling him for what he is, a fringe allstar that has been given the keys to a franchise due to lack of options and his stats are inflated as a result.

As a Rap's fan I want him to be as good as you say he is, I just don't see it. He needs to improve.
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#28 » by libertyYYZ » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:26 am

StringerBell wrote:He sounded positive about how his rehab is progressing but did mention not being able to do push ups yet.

NN mentioned in his most recent interview that the shoulder isn't strong enough to take contact. So, he can still work on other skills, but his rehab is mostly focused on getting the shoulder stronger.

It's looking like November and they'll take their time to get him back to 100% and ease him into the team. 82 practices and then the real season begins. :D
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#29 » by libertyYYZ » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:29 am

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:The interesting part was that he injured the shoulder early in the year, it seems to have been a running thing.

It might explain the shooting.

I think he's had a couple of shoulder injuries in his career; I seem to remember him missing time 2 or 3 seasons ago for a shoulder. No doubt this one affected his distance shooting.
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#30 » by ash_k » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:32 pm

only been two pages here...really surprising :lol:
the host went in with that "are you going to make the playoffs?" then Pascal implicitly saying "that's a disrespectful question" via "WE HAVE A (proven)WINNING CORE with me, Fred and OG!"

With a very solid Bench of Flynn|Dragic|Barnes|Precious|Boucher..Shooting Svi, Yuta...the bench looks potent
Going to be some nice battles
FVV vs Flynn
GTj vs Dragic
OG vs Barnes
PS vs Boucher
KB vs Precious
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#31 » by StringerBell » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:35 pm

libertyYYZ wrote:
StringerBell wrote:He sounded positive about how his rehab is progressing but did mention not being able to do push ups yet.

NN mentioned in his most recent interview that the shoulder isn't strong enough to take contact. So, he can still work on other skills, but his rehab is mostly focused on getting the shoulder stronger.

It's looking like November and they'll take their time to get him back to 100% and ease him into the team. 82 practices and then the real season begins. :D


Guess I was too hopeful to see him back by end of October. Looking like it may be mid-late November which could be up to 20+ games missed.
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#32 » by bongmarley » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:38 pm

Pascal missing first 10-15 games could be a blessing. It will give the team a chance to find either an individual or by committee a way to close out games. The force feeding of Pascal as the closer every game just din't work, So this may help and when he gets back perhaps he can be another option instead of THE option which might help every one out
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#33 » by Rapsalot » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:56 pm

I think the hold Dragic as see what we can get might be good. His scoring punch off bench will help and be a leader to younger team. Then when PS fully back would be a good time to flip him.
If that is our strategy then I would want to maybe sign a bigger C knowing we might not get Moses B until later in season we will see how Oct 6th goes.
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#34 » by ash_k » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:59 pm

bongmarley wrote:Pascal missing first 10-15 games could be a blessing. It will give the team a chance to find either an individual or by committee a way to close out games. The force feeding of Pascal as the closer every game just din't work, So this may help and when he gets back perhaps he can be another option instead of THE option which might help every one out

Agreed.
I am hoping for GTjr to turn into that closer .
Unlimited touches for OG and GTj for 10-20 games could be very interesting to watch.

Initially, I thought that either Boucher or Precious would slide in, until Pascal's return.
But maybe having Barnes in there might make more sense as the 'all-action' guy.
PG FVV|SG GTjr|SF OG|PF Barnes| C Birch then a bench of Flynn|Dragic|Boucher|Precious|Shooting Svi|Yuta:
Very solid until Pascal comes back.
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#35 » by pingpongrac » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:14 pm

PerfectJab wrote:
pingpongrac wrote:
PerfectJab wrote:
I wouldn't say it's just his shot from range. In the past he was able to create his own shot with his spin move which has long been figured out. He was able to get easy buckets on the fast break that helped with his efficiency. Despite these being taken away, he's shooting at the same volume without the efficiency that warranted it. He definitely forces his shots.

He needs to add additional offense to his arsenal. As a number one option there is no excuse to having nothing automatic.

Also... 22/7/4 is a decent stat line until you see that it is on 17.7 per (81st in the league) at the forward position.

51 out of 68 at the PF position in terms of TS%.

As it stands right now, he really needs to improve.
Except it really is just his outside shot that fell off last season and he was very good everywhere else. If he gets the outside shooting touch back, he's a top 20 player again.

Siakam in 2019/20: 64% in the restricted area, 38% in the paint (non-RA), 31% in the midrange, 36% behind the arc

Siakam in 2020/21: 63% in the restricted area, 43% in the paint (non-RA), 39% in the midrange, 30% behind the arc

If Siakam shot the same percentage on his 3FGA as the two seasons prior (~36.5%), he would have finished last season averaging 22.3/7.2/4.5 on 57 TS%. Suddenly his numbers look like that of a sure-fire all-star and even without that improvement he's still a top 5 PF for sure when considering both ends of the floor.

The hate is ridiculous. So many people on this board talk of Siakam like he's not even a top 40 player.


I don't know if you can call it hate, more basing what he is on what he has done vs what he may potentially do. As it stands right now it is arguable that he is a top 40 player and if he is it's right at the 40.

There are a lot of stats we can throw at each other (yours.. raw stats, mine.. advanced stats based on efficiency) but I would say PER is pretty indicative of what a player is, especially with high usage. He hasn't cracked over 20 (playoffs or reg season) once in his career even as the number one option for 2 years. That's not good.. I can't think of a single player with a usage % over 25% in the forward position that is less efficient can you? If you can, what type of player is he? Probably not very efficient.

I'll end it by saying I think it's amazing what he has done. He was supposed to be a scrub. Just calling him for what he is, a fringe allstar that has been given the keys to a franchise due to lack of options and his stats are inflated as a result.

As a Rap's fan I want him to be as good as you say he is, I just don't see it. He needs to improve.


PER isn't the end all be all for determining a player's ranking in the league. It paints a bit of a picture as to how productive a player is, but there are a lot of "top" players from last year that stick out like a sore thumb in the top 25 (Zion at 4, Robert Williams at 9, JV at 14, Capela at 15 and Harrell at 22) and there were plenty of all-star level players that didn't even crack the top 50 (Brown at 52, Randle at 53, Booker at 59, Simmons at 69, Murray at 70, Middleton at 71, Siakam at 81, etc.). Also, Boucher led Toronto with a 22 PER (28th) while FVV and Lowry didn't even crack the top 100 in PER last season.

When looking at USG% and TS%, it's true that Siakam doesn't grade out very well among high-scoring forwards. That being said, Siakam (26 USG% and 55 TS%) was pretty comparable to AD (29 USG% and 56 TS%), Randle (29 USG% and 57 TS%) and Tatum (30 USG% and 58 TS%) last year while he had a better AST/TO ratio than all 3. When you continue to dig deeper into the stats (on/off rating, defensive versatility, etc.) and consider the fact that Siakam was affected by the pandemic more than anyone else -- because he couldn't work out for months during the first shutdown, had to play on the road for ~80 games straight and actually tested positive for COVID at one point -- he's really not that far off at all to those 3 players last season. Why are two of those players (Tatum and AD) universally considered to be top 10-15 players in the league and the other (Randle) is already rated higher than Siakam after one outlier shooting season (2.3 3FGM on 41% after averaging 0.4 3FGM on 29% in his first 5 seasons) despite laying an even bigger egg in the playoffs against the Hawks than Siakam against a far superior Celtics team?

It seems to me that a lot of people on this board just have an agenda to belittle players on our own team while propping up others, or their expectations are just way too high. With all of the struggles Siakam went through in the past 18 months, he still put up 22/7/4 while being a very good defender the past two seasons. For someone getting paid 2.3M in 19/20 then as the ~30th highest earning player in the league last season, that's good value. Obviously he can improve in some areas and as fans we should hope for improvement, but it's unfair to expect him to be putting up 25/8/5 type numbers on 60 TS% while still being a very good defender. There are no more than 5 players in the entire league putting up similar numbers while still having a positive impact on the defensive end.
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#36 » by Los_29 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:55 pm

PerfectJab wrote:
pingpongrac wrote:
PerfectJab wrote:
I wouldn't say it's just his shot from range. In the past he was able to create his own shot with his spin move which has long been figured out. He was able to get easy buckets on the fast break that helped with his efficiency. Despite these being taken away, he's shooting at the same volume without the efficiency that warranted it. He definitely forces his shots.

He needs to add additional offense to his arsenal. As a number one option there is no excuse to having nothing automatic.

Also... 22/7/4 is a decent stat line until you see that it is on 17.7 per (81st in the league) at the forward position.

51 out of 68 at the PF position in terms of TS%.

As it stands right now, he really needs to improve.
Except it really is just his outside shot that fell off last season and he was very good everywhere else. If he gets the outside shooting touch back, he's a top 20 player again.

Siakam in 2019/20: 64% in the restricted area, 38% in the paint (non-RA), 31% in the midrange, 36% behind the arc

Siakam in 2020/21: 63% in the restricted area, 43% in the paint (non-RA), 39% in the midrange, 30% behind the arc

If Siakam shot the same percentage on his 3FGA as the two seasons prior (~36.5%), he would have finished last season averaging 22.3/7.2/4.5 on 57 TS%. Suddenly his numbers look like that of a sure-fire all-star and even without that improvement he's still a top 5 PF for sure when considering both ends of the floor.

The hate is ridiculous. So many people on this board talk of Siakam like he's not even a top 40 player.


I don't know if you can call it hate, more basing what he is on what he has done vs what he may potentially do. As it stands right now it is arguable that he is a top 40 player and if he is it's right at the 40.

There are a lot of stats we can throw at each other (yours.. raw stats, mine.. advanced stats based on efficiency) but I would say PER is pretty indicative of what a player is, especially with high usage. He hasn't cracked over 20 (playoffs or reg season) once in his career even as the number one option for 2 years. That's not good.. I can't think of a single player with a usage % over 25% in the forward position that is less efficient can you? If you can, what type of player is he? Probably not very efficient.

I'll end it by saying I think it's amazing what he has done. He was supposed to be a scrub. Just calling him for what he is, a fringe allstar that has been given the keys to a franchise due to lack of options and his stats are inflated as a result.

As a Rap's fan I want him to be as good as you say he is, I just don't see it. He needs to improve.


PER is a horrible statistic to use.
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Pascal Interview 

Post#37 » by Swag » Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:08 am

Come back healthy, publicly squash the beef with Nurse, play well and let’s increase your value.

My hope is we can package him and picks and whatever for Dame or a top 15


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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#38 » by anotherhomer » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:24 am

Maybe we keep him
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#39 » by PerfectJab » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:34 am

pingpongrac wrote:
PerfectJab wrote:
pingpongrac wrote:Except it really is just his outside shot that fell off last season and he was very good everywhere else. If he gets the outside shooting touch back, he's a top 20 player again.

Siakam in 2019/20: 64% in the restricted area, 38% in the paint (non-RA), 31% in the midrange, 36% behind the arc

Siakam in 2020/21: 63% in the restricted area, 43% in the paint (non-RA), 39% in the midrange, 30% behind the arc

If Siakam shot the same percentage on his 3FGA as the two seasons prior (~36.5%), he would have finished last season averaging 22.3/7.2/4.5 on 57 TS%. Suddenly his numbers look like that of a sure-fire all-star and even without that improvement he's still a top 5 PF for sure when considering both ends of the floor.

The hate is ridiculous. So many people on this board talk of Siakam like he's not even a top 40 player.


I don't know if you can call it hate, more basing what he is on what he has done vs what he may potentially do. As it stands right now it is arguable that he is a top 40 player and if he is it's right at the 40.

There are a lot of stats we can throw at each other (yours.. raw stats, mine.. advanced stats based on efficiency) but I would say PER is pretty indicative of what a player is, especially with high usage. He hasn't cracked over 20 (playoffs or reg season) once in his career even as the number one option for 2 years. That's not good.. I can't think of a single player with a usage % over 25% in the forward position that is less efficient can you? If you can, what type of player is he? Probably not very efficient.

I'll end it by saying I think it's amazing what he has done. He was supposed to be a scrub. Just calling him for what he is, a fringe allstar that has been given the keys to a franchise due to lack of options and his stats are inflated as a result.

As a Rap's fan I want him to be as good as you say he is, I just don't see it. He needs to improve.


PER isn't the end all be all for determining a player's ranking in the league. It paints a bit of a picture as to how productive a player is, but there are a lot of "top" players from last year that stick out like a sore thumb in the top 25 (Zion at 4, Robert Williams at 9, JV at 14, Capela at 15 and Harrell at 22) and there were plenty of all-star level players that didn't even crack the top 50 (Brown at 52, Randle at 53, Booker at 59, Simmons at 69, Murray at 70, Middleton at 71, Siakam at 81, etc.). Also, Boucher led Toronto with a 22 PER (28th) while FVV and Lowry didn't even crack the top 100 in PER last season.

When looking at USG% and TS%, it's true that Siakam doesn't grade out very well among high-scoring forwards. That being said, Siakam (26 USG% and 55 TS%) was pretty comparable to AD (29 USG% and 56 TS%), Randle (29 USG% and 57 TS%) and Tatum (30 USG% and 58 TS%) last year while he had a better AST/TO ratio than all 3. When you continue to dig deeper into the stats (on/off rating, defensive versatility, etc.) and consider the fact that Siakam was affected by the pandemic more than anyone else -- because he couldn't work out for months during the first shutdown, had to play on the road for ~80 games straight and actually tested positive for COVID at one point -- he's really not that far off at all to those 3 players last season. Why are two of those players (Tatum and AD) universally considered to be top 10-15 players in the league and the other (Randle) is already rated higher than Siakam after one outlier shooting season (2.3 3FGM on 41% after averaging 0.4 3FGM on 29% in his first 5 seasons) despite laying an even bigger egg in the playoffs against the Hawks than Siakam against a far superior Celtics team?

It seems to me that a lot of people on this board just have an agenda to belittle players on our own team while propping up others, or their expectations are just way too high. With all of the struggles Siakam went through in the past 18 months, he still put up 22/7/4 while being a very good defender the past two seasons. For someone getting paid 2.3M in 19/20 then as the ~30th highest earning player in the league last season, that's good value. Obviously he can improve in some areas and as fans we should hope for improvement, but it's unfair to expect him to be putting up 25/8/5 type numbers on 60 TS% while still being a very good defender. There are no more than 5 players in the entire league putting up similar numbers while still having a positive impact on the defensive end.


I agree that PER is not be all end all but there is some validity to it as the top players in the league with high usage will consistently rank at the top. In terms of 20 I meant in terms of 20+ per with high usage. It's a stat that favors players that have a lot of usage and are efficient in how they perform and not just in one aspect of their game. Players with 25% USG and 20 PER are almost guaranteed to be good. Name one player that isn't. On the flipside it is arguable. Should also mention that it's a stat that favors forwards due to their proximity to the rim, but even then his stats do not look particularly impressive.

I understand what you're saying, looks like you don't think he's destined to be a top 10 player in the league, I just think that his stat line is more indicative of stat stuffing and usage than reinforcing the type of player he is. He's not there yet!
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Re: Pascal Interview 

Post#40 » by WuTang_OG » Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:10 pm

Read on Twitter


can someone get this

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