2021 Power Ranking: The Top-50 Canadians

Hair Canada · Post #1 » by **Hair Canada** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:42 pm

The new NBA season is right around the corner, with the pre-season starting next week. And Canadians are already playing basketball in Europe and around the world.

So for the fifth year in a row, I’m putting up my annual power ranking of the top-50 Canadians.

This exercise is getting a bit tougher each year, with the expansion of Canadian talent out there. Once again, the number of Canadians starting this season on an NBA team roster is going to break the previous record (for Canada or any other nation not named the US). We’re up to 25 this year and a few others will play in the G-league, ready for a call.

To these, we can add a few former leaguers and a bunch of younger talents who are still in college/high school but will probably get there in the next few years. Overseas, there are two Canadians in the Euroleague, a record number of players (9) in the ACB (Spain), the best domestic league outside the US, and multiple players in other strong domestic leagues, including Greece, Italy, France, Russia, Turkey, Germany, Israel, Australia, and China.

Two ground rules before starting:

* First, I do my ranking with an eye to the Canadian National Team. That is, I'm thinking who I would most like to see on the team if I had my choice and they would be willing to suit up. This means that I'm also considering positions to an extent and also fit with others.

* Second, there are no high school players in my top-50. As a rule, 17 and 18-year-olds not named Luca Doncic are just not that good at playing grown-up pro basketball. So you can save your "where's Elijah Fisher" outcries (I would not have him here in any case). One could argue that I should apply the same rule to college freshmen who still haven't played a game in the NCAA. That's fair, but I decided to still include one here, though my rule is that these cannot be ranked higher than #40 on the list.

This year I’ll do it in stages, as I’ll be adding a brief write-up for each player and this could get quite lengthy. As always, feel free to disagree!

Before getting to the top-50, I’ll start with a few players who didn’t make it.

TEN HONORABLE MENTIONS:

1. Potential future leaguers:

Shaedon Sharpe | 18.3yo SG | 6'5, 200lbs, 7'0 wingspan | Kentucky | London, ON
Had my arbitrary rules allowed it, Sharpe would already be comfortably in the top-50 after his meteoric rise this year. I project that a few years from now he'll be in the top-5.

Andrew Nembhard | 21.7yo PG | 6'5, 195lbs, 6'4 wingspan | Gonzaga | Aurora, ON
The older Nembhard continues to be very solid but not spectacular. Missed a national NCAA title by a hair last year and will go at it again this season, leading arguably the best team in college. Improved shooting will be key for his NBA prospects.

Ryan Nembhard | 18.5yo PG | 6'0, 170lbs | Creighton | Aurora, ON
The younger Nembhard is going to be a heck of a college player and might eventually be better than his brother, despite being 5 inches shorter.

Simi Shittu | G-League | 21.9yo C | 6'10, 240lbs, 7'1 wingspan | Vanderbilt | Burlington, ON
Simi continues to float around the league and it seems all he needs is a real chance to show what he can do. I think it might happen for him this year, as he could be our top G-league prospect.

Quincy Guerrier | 22.4yo SF | 6'7, 220lbs, 6'10 wingspan | Oregon | Montreal, QC
Guerrier had a very good season last year at Syracuse, before transferring to Oregon. If he can continue his assent (and in particular make his 3-pointers) he might be a second-round draft selection next year.

2. Current leaguers

Dalano Banton | Toronto Raptors, NBA | 21.9yo PG | 6'9, 205lbs, 6'10 wingspan | Nebraska | Toronto, ON
Raptors fans might not like this, but I really don't think Banton is a very good player at this point. Is the potential there to be a legit leaguer? Sure. But it's far from a sure thing and will require significant improvement, particularly in the shooting department.

AJ Lawson | Atlanta Hawks, NBA | 21.2yo SG | 6'6, 180lbs, 6'7 wingspan | South Carolina | Brampton, ON
Lawson signed a contract with Atlanta to become the 25th Canadian in the NBA to start the season. Not sure he's going to stick and will need to show more to enter the top-50 with the constant addition of talent we’re seeing all around.

3. Former leaguers

Anthony Bennett | Hapoel Jerusalem, Israel | 28.5yo PF | 6'8, 245lbs, 7'1 wingspan | UNLV | Toronto, ON
At only 28, it seems like we've been here countless times before as the former #1 draft pick tries to revive his career, this time in the Holy Land. Can he do it? I've watched a couple of his games in Jerusalem and before that in Victoria and though he seems to have the right attitude, I have my doubts.

Tyler Ennis | Turk Telekom, Turkey | 27.1yo PG | 6'3, 185lbs, 6'7 wingspan | Syracuse | Toronto, ON
After two bad injuries and having played only a handful of games in the last three years, the younger Ennis brother will try to make another comeback. Fingers crossed and if he manages to get back to his old form he certainly still has a place in the top-50.

Nik Stauskas | G-League | 28yo SG | 6'6, 210lbs, 6'8 wingspan | Michigan | Mississauga, ON
What happened to the sharpshooter who looked so promising in Michigan? If not for Bennett, he would probably be considered the biggest Canadian bust of the decade. Nik is only 28 and should have been at the height of his career, but I'm not even sure he's that motivated to play competitive basketball anymore.

Tomorrow I’ll post 26-50.

Jef · Post #2 » by **Jef** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:13 pm

Banton and Ellis don't even make Top 50?
Wow, we quite deep now.

mojo13 · Post #3 » by **mojo13** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:59 pm

Jef wrote:Banton and Ellis don't even make Top 50?
Wow, we quite deep now.

So this will cause some debate...but consider closely Hair's initial criteria of "I do my ranking with an eye to the Canadian National Team"

You really need to look at players as they are today (no future potential) and how they are fairing or will fair in a national team (FIBA) setting. Tyler Ennis has had a mess of injuries the last few years and is still not back playing in games (almost there). Banton is a very raw product has zero FIBA experience and might be a very poor fit for the FIBA game.

I'm very interested in seeing Hair's ranking. He is usually pretty accurate and I usually just have a few disagreements. I may do one myself (not sure if I have the time), but it may just be easier to criticize his ranking

My gut says all the guys above should be out of the top 50 - so I like what I see so far.

I am assuming other G-Leaguers like Karim Mane and Justin Jackson don't even may your Honorable Mention (wouldn't make mine) but will be curious if Nate Darling does (knee injury)

And a little side note on Nik Stuaskas as he really bugs me. He just seems to be one of the mentally softest Canadian bball players of all time. It was widely known he cracked under the pressure of the NBA. Granted he was drafted into a terrible place in Sacramento with a Boogie who seemed to make it his mission to bully Nik into submission and off the team. But he had plenty of NBA chances and could never pull his head together. He tried the EuroLeague and had the same results - the first adversity he faced and the he folded. He clearly has the skill set to be a star in the EuroLeague, gain some confidence and either thrive there and/or work his back into the NBA but since it wasn't easy he seemingly just gave up after one rough season. He really seems like he wants the easy path...probably doing Cameos at this point.

Hair Canada · Post #4 » by **Hair Canada** » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:08 am

mojo13 wrote:
Jef wrote:Banton and Ellis don't even make Top 50?
Wow, we quite deep now.

So this will cause some debate...but consider closely Hair's initial criteria of "I do my ranking with an eye to the Canadian National Team"

You really need to look at players as they are today (no future potential) and how they are fairing or will fair in a national team (FIBA) setting. Tyler Ennis has had a mess of injuries the last few years and is still not back playing in games (almost there). Banton is a very raw product has zero FIBA experience and might be a very poor fit for the FIBA game.

I'm very interested in seeing Hair's ranking. He is usually pretty accurate and I usually just have a few disagreements. I may do one myself (not sure if I have the time), but it may just be easier to criticize his ranking

My gut says all the guys above should be out of the top 50 - so I like what I see so far.

I am assuming other G-Leaguers like Karim Mane and Justin Jackson don't even may your Honorable Mention (wouldn't make mine) but will be curious if Nate Darling does (knee injury)

And a little side note on Nik Stuaskas as he really bugs me. He just seems to be one of the mentally softest Canadian bball players of all time. It was widely known he cracked under the pressure of the NBA. Granted he was drafted into a terrible place in Sacramento with a Boogie who seemed to make it his mission to bully Nik into submission and off the team. But he had plenty of NBA chances and could never pull his head together. He tried the EuroLeague and had the same results - the first adversity he faced and the he folded. He clearly has the skill set to be a star in the EuroLeague, gain some confidence and either thrive there and/or work his back into the NBA but since it wasn't easy he seemingly just gave up after one rough season. He really seems like he wants the easy path...probably doing Cameos at this point.

Would be great to hear your thoughts about the ranking, mojo. Your comments in previous years certainly helped me adjust my thinking on some of our players.

Hair Canada · Post #5 » by **Hair Canada** » Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:59 pm

Places 26-50 (my ranking from the previous year in parentheses)

50 (not ranked). Johnny Berhanemeskel | Chorale Roanne, France | 28.9yo SG | 6'2, 175lbs, 6'2 wingspan | U of Ottawa | Ottawa, ON
Not the best season last year for Johnny B, who I admittedly snubbed a bit in previous years when he was playing better. I'll compensate by giving him the final spot in my top-50, but he'll need to bounce back to stay here.

49 (NR). Lindell Wigginton | G-League | 23.5yo SG | 6'2, 190lbs, 6'4 wingspan | Iowa State | Halifax, NS
Wiggy had sort of a breakout season in the CEBL this summer, finishing as the second-leading scorer in the league. He shot the 3-ball well and had a decent A:TO ratio (always been a major issue for him). This comes in the footsteps of a good G-league season and one can hope that it reignites his career. The talent is there and he's still young. Just needs to put it together.

48 (27). Kenny Chery | Avtodor, Russia | 29.7yo PG | 5'11, 180lbs | Baylor | Montreal, QC
Cherry regressed a bit this year and drops in the ranking, though it’s even more due to the ascent of others. He's still productive, playing in the strong Italian Serie A and continuing to overcome his smaller measurements on the way to an impressive European career.

47 (26). Naz Mitrou-Long | Brescia, Italy | 28.1yo SG | 6'3, 220lbs | Iowa State | Mississauga, ON
At the age of 28, Mitrou-Long finally seems like he's willing to let go of the NBA dream and he's off to make some money overseas. Naz has never played for Team Canada and there have always been rumors that he might play for Greece one day but so far that hasn't happened.

46 (44). Conor Morgan | Andorra, Spain | 27.1yo PF | 6'9, 220lbs, 7'2 wingspan | UBC | Victoria, BC
Despite a fairly modest production, Morgan maintains his place in the best domestic league in Europe (that's his 4th season in Spain) and continues to be a fringe player for Team Canada.

45 (31). Nate Darling | G-League | 23.1yo SG | 6'5, 200lbs, 6'5 wingspan | Delaware | Halifax, NS
Darling made history last year, becoming the first Nova Scotian to play in the NBA. But he didn’t really impress in the few opportunities he received with the Hornets. Seems like he's still chasing the dream but he might be better off going overseas to make some money. I think he can be a fine pro.

44 (46). Josh Primo | San Antonio Spurs, NBA | 18.8yo SG | 6'5, 190lbs, 6'9 wingspan | Alabama | Mississauga, ON
Yes, I'm well aware that he was just drafted in the lottery. But for now, Primo is still not more than a promise. He’ll need to show that the Spurs knew what they were doing drafting him this high to move up the power rank.

43 (NR). Olivier Hanlan | Aris Thessaloniki, Greece | 28.6yo SG | 6'4, 190lbs, 6'7 wingspan | Boston College | Aylmer, QC
Hanlan's scoring efficiency dropped some this year, but he continues to be a solid contributor, playing in one of the stronger leagues in Europe.

42 (35). Aaron Best | Boulazac, France | 29.1yo SG | 6'4, 195lbs | Ryerson | Scarborough, ON
Not the flashiest player, but I continue to love what Best brings when putting on the red and white shirt. Has always been a great and very willing contributor to the team and I hope he still has some gas left in the tank.

41 (39). Marcus Carr | 22.3yo PG | 6'2, 195lbs, 6'7 wingspan | Texas | Toronto, ON
A terrific season for Carr, who showed incredible late-game heroics. But he didn't shoot the 3 that well and didn't manage to propel a weak Minnesota team. Has a chance to finish up his college career strong with Texas, who's a top-10 team and a potential title contender.

40 (NR). Caleb Houstan | 18.7yo SF | 6'8, 205lbs | Michigan | Mississauga, ON
Houstan is ranked as high as my rather arbitrary rules about high school graduates would allow. Already a good player on both ends of the floor and a terrific shooter, who's going to get better and have a long NBA career.

39 (36). Aaron Durnekamp | Tenerife, Spain | 35.8yo PF | 6'7, 215lbs | Carleton | Napanee, ON
At almost 36yo, Durnekamp continues to play in the strong Spanish league and even managed to make Team Canada again in the Victoria qualies. At some point (probably pretty soon) the magic is going to end but for now, he remains in my top-40.

38 (33). Kassius Robertson | Obradorio, Spain | 27.4yo SG | 6'3, 180lbs | Missouri | Toronto, ON
A pure shooter who's managed to establish himself as one of the best shooters in the Spanish league. Could be a useful player for Team Canada in the WC qualifiers.

37 (NR). Dejan Kravic | Burgos, Spain | 31yo C | 7'0, 245lbs | Texas Tech | Mostar, Bosnia
Kravic continues to play well in the Spanish league. Another player who's missed the Team Canada train (don't think he actually ever wanted to catch it).

36 (19). Phil Scrubb | Avtador, Russia | 28.8yo SG | 6'5, 185lbs | Carleton | Richmond, BC
Another CNT-faithful, Scrubb remains very solid, though never spectacular. I do think he was a bit weaker last year but the drop in ranking is mainly due to the ascent of other guys.

35 (NR). Caleb Agada | Melbourne, Australia | 27.1yo SG | 6'4, 210lbs | U of Ottawa | Ottawa, ON
One of the best seasons by a Canadian overseas last year from this Ottawa product. A terrific defender who can also erupt offensively. He was with Nigeria at the Olympics and not going to play with Team Canada in the future, which is a bit of a shame I think.

34 (NR). Eugene Omoruyi | Dallas Mavericks, NBA | 24.6yo PF | 6'6, 240lbs, 7'1 wingspan | Oregon | Rexdale, ON
I love what Omoruyi brings to the table, particularly on the defensive end. So I'm actually not surprised that he's getting a chance in the NBA even as an undersized PF who's almost 25yo coming out of college. I really think he has a chance to stick, especially if he manages to make the open 3s.

33 (38). Thomas Scrubb | Obradorio, Spain | 30yo SF | 6'6, 200lbs | Carleton | Richmond, BC
The older Scrubb brother continues to be as solid as a rock, playing with a high level of efficiency. He's been rewarded with a promotion to the best domestic league in Europe and for me, he's now slightly surpassed his brother.

32 (30). Mifiondu Kabengele | Cleaveland Cavaliers, NBA | 24.1yo C | 6'9, 250lbs, 7'3 wingspan | Florida State | Burlington, ON
Fi's NBA career has been stagnant. Didn't show much progress since he entered the league and his 3-point shooting, which seemed like the thing that might buy him playing time, hasn't been falling. Might be his last chance this year before he’ll need to look elsewhere.

31 (40). Bennedict Mathurin | 19.3yo SF | 6'7, 195lbs, 6'10 wingspan | Arizona | Montreal, QC
An NBA lottery talent who can really shoot the ball. I'm counting on him to take a step forward in creation and stability this year in Arizona.

30 (34). Kaza Kajami-Keane | Le Mans, France | 27.7yo PG | 6'2, 185lbs | Carleton | Ajax, ON
Continues to improve every year and had a good first season at the French league, showing he's good enough to play in the best European leagues. Together with Trae Bell-Haynes, he should hold the PG position for Team Canada when the NBA guys are out.

29 (NR). Kyle Alexander | Fuenlabarda, Spain | 24.9yo C | 6'11, 220lbs, 7'5 wingspan | Tennessee | Milton, ON
A very good first year for Kyle overseas. Also looked really good in summer league. Has good size and defensive paint presence and could be an important piece for Team Canada, especially when the NBA bigs are missing.

28 (45). Trae Bell-Haynes | Rio Breogan, Spain | 26.1yo PG | 6'2, 180lbs | Vermont | Toronto, ON
A breakout year for the Vermont graduate in Germany (was one of the best players in the league) led to an upgrade to the Spanish league and a spot on Team Canada in the Olympic qualifiers, though he didn't get to actually play much in Victoria.

27 (29). Ignas Brazdeikis | Orlando Magic, NBA | 22.7yo SF | 6'6, 220lbs, 6'9 wingspan | Michigan | Oakville, ON
Iggy is still looking for a real chance in the NBA. Got some extended minutes at the end of last year in an injured Orlando. Not sure he'll get much more this year. Would like to see him go to Europe as I think he can be a very nice Euroleague player.

26 (22). Andrew Nicholson | Fujian Sturgeons, China | 31.8yo PF | 6'10, 250lbs, 7'4 wingspan | St. Bonaventure | Mississauga, ON
The former leaguer continues to put up big numbers in China while shooting the ball efficiently. Also looked okay in the Victoria qualifiers but we have better options in the paint.

mojo13 · Post #6 » by **mojo13** » Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:16 pm

Great start Hair. First let me point out the great format and all the added info here beyond just names on a list.
Also I recognize that this really hard to do as these players are all over the world across dozens of leagues. It is a tonne of work and experience just trying to make heads and tails of the varying strengths of different leagues and the clubs within those leagues. To gets something even close to consensus agreement on a list like this is a near impossible task.

So a very good start among the Honorable Mentions and 26-50. I'm sure we could spend hours debating about movement 5 place this way or that among these players, but I'll let that go and try to limit to bigger topics.

Absences: No glaring omissions but there but a number of guys that should be recognized as in consideration for HM or the 40-50 range. Those would include Isiaha Mike, Owen Klassen, Mikyle McIntosh. None of them clearly deserve the top 50 but I'd take them over many of the....

NCAA players: I think the NCAA players are generally over ranked. The NCAA is such a lower level of competition from the Euro pro ranks let alone the better clubs playing in EuroCup or BCL. NCAA guys are playing competition where the vast majority (95%+) will never touch these pro leagues, yet you have them ranked higher than EuroCup/BLC level starters. These are 19/20 year old kids who have so much development ahead of them vs prime age experienced pros. I'm not sure any NCAA players would be in my Top 50.
If was building a team for a game today - I am certainly not taking Bennedict Mathurin (31) over really any of the Euro pros ranked behind him. Wasn't a Boston Collage era Oliver Hanlan (who I'm not a fan of an think is overanked) pretty much the same thing as a current Marcus Carr? Surely a Hanlan with 6 years of pro experience is a much better player today.

Honorable Mentions (Tyler Ennis / Nik Stuaskas): Maybe it is the recent injury for Tyler Ennis and the current mystery of Nik Stuaskas but those two are better today than a number of players in the 26-to 50 range - I think especially the NCAA players. Probably Anthony Bennett too - has was a good G-League player and Jerusalem is a EuroCup calibre team. Still uncertain if he sticks with them, but if he is a legit player for Jerusalem he is easily Top 50 (but I understand the caution here)

And some other random thoughts on specific names:
Mathurin (as mentioned) I think is most over ranked. But this could be the right spot for him in 12-24 months. Too early right now but he has a long way to go (but should do it fairly quickly).
Trae Bell Haynes - I think is over ranked here. Too soon to tell, but he is yet unproven in the ACB vs establish players behind him. He was an MVP candidate in the BBL, but this still a big step down from the ACB. You may be proven right by the end of the season though.
Kassius Robertson - underanked - especially when looking at TBH. Robertson lead the ACB in made threes last season with excellent shooting (41%) and was one of the top scorers in the league. He is closer to Dylan Ennis range I think (I may be too high on him as he hasnt played on a BCL/EuroCup team yet)
Kaza Keane - seems a little high as well. I look at the ACB players as step up from the Pro-A guys. They do go back and forth but Keane has never broken into the ACB (or a BCL or EuroCup club) I don't yet see him above the Scrubbs, but he is closing the gap year after year.
Aaron Best seems over ranked. He seems to show up for Team Canada, but has had a tougher go and a lesser resume in in the pro ranks than guys behind him. I don't think he'd make my top 50 - and is more par with Klassen and Mike. I believe he is one of the very few without a contract right now.
Naz Mitrou Long seems under ranked for a guy who almost carved out a role in the NBA and was a very good G-League player. Especially when looking where Omoruyi and Brazdeikis are ranked. Both of who I think are over ranked somewhat. I liked Omoruyi in the NCAA, but he was really old and I think needs to prove himself in the pros yet. Is Brazdeikis that much better than Long? Still a little tough to tell with Iggy - he has shown flashes at the end of the season.

Anyways - those are just my thoughts. You know these players, as well as, or better than I do. Great list that is really fun to poke at.

Hair Canada · Post #7 » by **Hair Canada** » Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:15 pm

mojo13 wrote:Great start Hair. First let me point out the great format and all the added info here beyond just names on a list.
Also I recognize that this really hard to do as these players are all over the world across dozens of leagues. It is a tonne of work and experience just trying to make heads and tails of the varying strengths of different leagues and the clubs within those leagues. To gets something even close to consensus agreement on a list like this is a near impossible task.

So a very good start among the Honorable Mentions and 26-50. I'm sure we could spend hours debating about movement 5 place this way or that among these players, but I'll let that go and try to limit to bigger topics.

Absences: No glaring omissions but there but a number of guys that should be recognized as in consideration for HM or the 40-50 range. Those would include Isiaha Mike, Owen Klassen, Mikyle McIntosh. None of them clearly deserve the top 50 but I'd take them over many of the....

NCAA players: I think the NCAA players are generally over ranked. The NCAA is such a lower level of competition from the Euro pro ranks let alone the better clubs playing in EuroCup or BCL. NCAA guys are playing competition where the vast majority (95%+) will never touch these pro leagues, yet you have them ranked higher than EuroCup/BLC level starters. These are 19/20 year old kids who have so much development ahead of them vs prime age experienced pros. I'm not sure any NCAA players would be in my Top 50.
If was building a team for a game today - I am certainly not taking Bennedict Mathurin (31) over really any of the Euro pros ranked behind him. Wasn't a Boston Collage era Oliver Hanlan (who I'm not a fan of an think is overanked) pretty much the same thing as a current Marcus Carr? Surely a Hanlan with 6 years of pro experience is a much better player today.

Honorable Mentions (Tyler Ennis / Nik Stuaskas): Maybe it is the recent injury for Tyler Ennis and the current mystery of Nik Stuaskas but those two are better today than a number of players in the 26-to 50 range - I think especially the NCAA players. Probably Anthony Bennett too - has was a good G-League player and Jerusalem is a EuroCup calibre team. Still uncertain if he sticks with them, but if he is a legit player for Jerusalem he is easily Top 50 (but I understand the caution here)

And some other random thoughts on specific names:
Mathurin (as mentioned) I think is most over ranked. But this could be the right spot for him in 12-24 months. Too early right now but he has a long way to go (but should do it fairly quickly).
Trae Bell Haynes - I think is over ranked here. Too soon to tell, but he is yet unproven in the ACB vs establish players behind him. He was an MVP candidate in the BBL, but this still a big step down from the ACB. You may be proven right by the end of the season though.
Kassius Robertson - underanked - especially when looking at TBH. Robertson lead the ACB in made threes last season with excellent shooting (41%) and was one of the top scorers in the league. He is closer to Dylan Ennis range I think (I may be too high on him as he hasnt played on a BCL/EuroCup team yet)
Kaza Keane - seems a little high as well. I look at the ACB players as step up from the Pro-A guys. They do go back and forth but Keane has never broken into the ACB (or a BCL or EuroCup club) I don't yet see him above the Scrubbs, but he is closing the gap year after year.
Aaron Best seems over ranked. He seems to show up for Team Canada, but has had a tougher go and a lesser resume in in the pro ranks than guys behind him. I don't think he'd make my top 50 - and is more par with Klassen and Mike. I believe he is one of the very few without a contract right now.
Naz Mitrou Long seems under ranked for a guy who almost carved out a role in the NBA and was a very good G-League player. Especially when looking where Omoruyi and Brazdeikis are ranked. Both of who I think are over ranked somewhat. I liked Omoruyi in the NCAA, but he was really old and I think needs to prove himself in the pros yet. Is Brazdeikis that much better than Long? Still a little tough to tell with Iggy - he has shown flashes at the end of the season.

Anyways - those are just my thoughts. You know these players, as well as, or better than I do. Great list that is really fun to poke at.

Thanks for this detailed reply, mojo. Always fun to exchange views on this and I believe you know more than I do on quite a few of these guys, given that you've followed them for more years and know the Canadians in the European market like the back of your hand (I'm a bit more attuned to college and high school).

Some very valid points I think. But let's see one by one.

For the college players, you are probably right and this might be a by-product of spending many hours watching these guys. I find that it's particularly tough to put my finger on the exact point where someone moves from being a future prospect to being a contributing player on a professional team (of course, it never happens in a matter of weeks, making it even murkier). So as a rule, you're probably right that most of the college guys here are somewhat over-ranked. I think beyond recency bias, it's also due to a bit of optimism, or what some might call wishful thinking. For example, Hanlan is already a known quantity and not going to be better next year; Houstan or Mathurin? They still have lots of room to grow and I hope that they do, even within the next couple of months. And since this is projecting on how all of these guys are going to look like next season, I'm hoping they justify this ranking. But I also should note that, except for Houstan and Mathurin (and Primo), the college players/recent graduates who are in the top-50 are not 20yo. Carr is 22.5 and Omoruyi 24.5. Omoruyi might indeed be over-ranked but I just love his game and believe in him. Again, might be wishful thinking and if it is, he'll drop next year.

The rest of the college players I mentioned (e.g. the Nembhard brothers) as HM not necessarily because they are better players than the likes of McIntosh or Mike right now, but rather because they might get to the league one day, so are more interesting for me to mention. But your point is certainly taken.

Bell Haynes -- We'll see. He's already started nicely in Spain but will of course need to show consistency.

Robertson -- I might be paying too much attention to his form in the CEBL, which might be silly. But I watched him there a bit and was not impressed. You're probably right that the success in Spain should take precedence and he might be under-ranked.

Keane vs. Phil Scrubb is a tough one. I was certainly team Scrubb till recently, but over the last year has been less impressed with Phil and I wonder if it's just a temporary decline or the start of something more. Hope it's the former.

Aaron Best -- I'll admit I have a soft spot there because he's been so good and useful every time I've watched him with the national team.

Brazdeikis vs. Long? Here I'll certainly take Iggy. I think he's better now and has significantly more potential looking a bit further ahead. But I could be wrong.

Anyway, once I'm done, you should post your own list if you're up to it. Should be fun to compare notes.

JShuttlesworth · Post #8 » by **JShuttlesworth** » Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:08 pm

Nice write up OP!

I know Caleb Houstan gets a lot of hype, but Bennedict Mathurin is a player I like a lot in the upcoming draft.

Mattd97 · Post #9 » by **Mattd97** » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:00 am

Hey Hair, if you're ranking it with an eye towards CMNT, which I think is a cool ranking, how come you decided to include guys like kravic, agada and iggy who we know will never be an option?

Hair Canada · Post #10 » by **Hair Canada** » Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:34 am

Mattd97 wrote:Hey Hair, if you're ranking it with an eye towards CMNT, which I think is a cool ranking, how come you decided to include guys like kravic, agada and iggy who we know will never be an option?

Good question. I thought quite a bit about it and eventually decided to just include in the ranking anyone who is known to be Canadian. Didn't do it in past years, but it got me into being quite inconsistent.

It's true that Kravic, Agada, and Iggy are either very unlikely to or just simply unable to play for Team Canada. But it feels really weird to exclude players who are Canadian, grew up in Canada, and played in the Canadian basketball system, while including guys who happened to be born here but actually grew up elsewhere, such as Lyles and Clarke. Also, if the measure is playing for Team Canada, then how about someone like Dylan Ennis, who played for Jamaica and never played for Canada. He might be eligible now, or maybe not, but he's already almost 30 and who knows. The same goes for Naz Long. In fact, there are quite a few others on this list who have never and will most likely never play for a national Canadian team. So should they still be on the list? Someone like Iggy, on the other hand, did play for a junior national Canadian team.

In short, starting to exclude guys led me into the rabbit hole. So eventually I decided to just include all Canadians even if they are very unlikely to ever play for Team Canada. I'm still keeping an eye on Team Canada when doing this ranking, but it's not the only criterion.

Hair Canada · Post #11 » by **Hair Canada** » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:48 pm

Places 11-25 (ranking from the previous year in parentheses)

25 (NR). Zach Edey | 19.5yo C | 7'4, 285lbs, 7'7 wingspan | Purdue | Toronto, ON
Love what he can bring to the international game, even if he's not the best fit for today's NBA. Should be a very important player for Team Canada already in the next cycle of international competitions and for years to come.

24 (18). Melvin Ejim | Cedevita, Slovenia | 30.5yo PF | 6'7, 220lbs, 6'10 wingspan | Iowa State | Toronto, ON
Ejim continues to be one of my favorite players. A glue guy who you just love having on your team. Too bad he missed the Victoria qualifiers due to an injury.

22 (24). Marial Shayok | Fenerbahce, Euroleague/Turkey | 26.2yo SG | 6'6, 205lbs, 7'0 wingspan | Iowa State | Ottawa, ON
Shayok is getting his first chance at the Euroleague with Fener and I think he has a good chance to stick around. Not the best defender but should be a good Euroleague scorer.

21 (17). Kyle Wiltjer | Tenerife, Spain | 28.9yo PF | 6'10, 240lbs, 7'0 wingspan | Gonzaga | Portland, OR
Still the best Canadian offensive player outside of the NBA (a better scorer than quite a few of our NBA players). But he's also a poor defender. Can still be useful in a limited role for team Canada.

20 (NR). Chris Duarte | Indiana Pacers, NBA | 24.3yo SG | 6'6, 190lbs, 6'7 wingspan | Oregon | Montreal, QC
Some may be surprised to see his name here and question whether he's even Canadian. Well, from what I know he was born in Montreal to a Canadian dad and that’s good enough for me till proven otherwise. As long as we're considering Brandon Clarke a Canadian, so is Duarte, even if it's unlikely he ever puts on the red and white uniform. Anyway, I really like his game and think he'll be a good NBA player for years, probably already starting this year considering his experience and level of maturity. Next year he could be even higher.

19 (16). Trey Lyles | Detroit Pistons, NBA | 25.9yo PF | 6'10, 235lbs, 7'2 wingspan | Kentucky | Saskatoon, SK
Lyles has not been a good NBA player for a while now, probably since that one strong run in Denver, where for a few moments he looked like a legit starter in this league. He's now getting what might be his last chance to revive his NBA career, playing alongside Olynyk and Co-Jo in Detroit. With Team Canada this summer he showed that he still has enough talent to stick around, even if he's probably never going to be more than an NBA rotation player.

18 (20). Michael Mulder | Golden State Warriors, NBA | 27.3yo SG | 6'4, 195lbs, 6'8 wingspan | Kentucky | Windsor, ON
After hardly making the Warriors roster, Mulder settled in quite nicely and got some chances to play, partly because of injuries. He's still primarily a shooter, but I thought he played decent defense (he's a sneaky athlete) and toward the end of the year, he had a few games with 25+ points, where he was really shooting the ball well, knocking down 6+ 3s in each of these games. If he can keep shooting his 3s at around 40%, he should stick around for a while.

17 (21). Dyshawn Pierre | Fenerbahce, Euroleague/Turkey | 27.9yo SF | 6'6, 230lbs | Dayton | Whitby, ON
The only non-NBA guy who made it to my top-20, Pierre played very well for Fener in the Euroleague this year. Not a flashy guy, but an excellent defender, and an efficient offensive player. A glue guy who seems to get a bit better every year and someone I'd be happy to see suit up for Team Canada.

16 (9). Cory Joseph | Detroit Pistons, NBA | 30.1yo PG | 6'3, 200lbs, 6'6 wingspan | Texas | Toronto, ON
Captain Canada had another decent NBA season. Didn't play particularly well with Sacramento, but after the move to Detroit, he showed he can still be a useful backup PG (12 points and 6 assists per game), though he did it on one of the weakest teams in the league. With Team Canada in Vancouver, however, it was probably the worst I've seen him play. If we ever get Murray, SGA, NAW, and Pangos to show up all at once (quite an ask), I think Co-Jo would no longer have a spot on the team.

15 (8). Tristan Thompson | Sacramento Kings, NBA | 30.5yo C | 6'9, 255lbs, 7'2 wingspan | Texas | Brampton, ON
TT continues his gradual decline. He didn't have a particularly bad year playing for Boston, but it wasn't very good either and the Celtics were more than happy to dispatch of him this summer. He'll try to revive his career on a young Sacramento team, but at almost 31yo, his best days are probably behind him.

14 (28). Oshae Brissett | Indiana Pacers, NBA | 23.3yo PF | 6'7, 210lbs, 7'0 wingspan | Syracuse | Toronto, ON
Sure, I might be overreacting to 20 games on a depleted Pacers team. But I really liked what Brissett has shown at the end of last season and the kind of skills he brings. It's not just the improved offense and shooting (13.5 points per game on a non-sustainable 64% true shooting and 42% from 3). It's also the ability to match up with opposing bigs defensively that I found really encouraging. So as the two players below him on the list continue to slowly fade, I now have him in front of them.

13 (4). Brandon Clarke | Memphis Grizzlies, NBA | 25yo PF | 6'8, 210lbs, 6'8 wingspan | Gonzaga | Vancouver, BC
The biggest drop in the top-25. After a magnificent rookie year, Clarke unfortunately regressed. His shooting form, which looked just fine in Gonzaga and during his first NBA season, got reworked for whatever reason and he now has this funky hitch on it, which on top of being painful to watch, was also brutal for his accuracy. And with that, he also lost some of the fantastic self-confidence and efficiency that characterized his rookie season, dropping a whole 10% in true shooting. This drop eventually cost him his place in the Grizzlies rotation during the postseason. I think Clarke is too good of a player to not have a bounce-back season (and I did think he made improvements on D last year). But he's probably no longer seen as a future starter and pillar for the Bears.

12 (11). Dwight Powell | Dallas Mavericks, NBA | 30.2yo C | 6'10, 240lbs, 7'0 wingspan | Stanford | Toronto, ON
Coming back from his Achilles injury, Dwight actually looked better than (I) expected. He was not brilliant by any means, but played rather solid, didn't seem to lose too much of his athletic ability, and appeared to have regained some of his old form over the last two months of the season (though he didn't play much in the playoffs). He was also our best big in the Victoria qualifiers and he's getting extra points in my book for even showing up right after coming back from such a serious injury.

11 (12). Khem Birch | Toronto Raptors, NBA | 29yo C | 6'9, 235lbs, 7'1 wingspan | UNLV | Montreal, QC
Birch was finally able to get out of that horrible situation in Orlando. And moving to the Raptors he managed to show what we all knew he could do – be a solid starting/bench player in this league. Luckily for him, it also happened just in the nick of time to finally get his well-deserved big paycheck. Really glad for him and hope that's the last time he is forced to miss the Canadian Team due to contract considerations. We really need him in the paint and he could have made the difference this summer.

TheFutureMM · Post #12 » by **TheFutureMM** » Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:48 pm

Love this list - trying to figure out whose left and predict the final rankings:

10. Nickeil Alexander-Walker
9. Kevin Pangos
8. Lu Dort
7. Chris Boucher
6. RJ Barrett
5. Dillon Brooks
4. Kelly Olynyk
3. Andrew Wiggins
2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
1. Jamal Murray

Clay Davis · Post #13 » by **Clay Davis** » Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:03 pm

Amazing work OP

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using RealGM mobile app

mojo13 · Post #14 » by **mojo13** » Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:08 pm

Overall I'm feeling pretty good about 11 through 25 and don't have much to comment on.

No surprise I choked a little seeing Zach Edey at 25, but it is growing on me as I think about it. My reservations on NCAA players are stated above, and I think the U19s is a step down from NCAA competition. There is a long history of physically advanced bigs dominating U19s and then not turning out to do much afterwards. Oumar Ballo is a recent example as one who couldn't get off the bench for Gonzaga after carrying Mali to a surprise silver in the 2019 U19s (17.6 points, 11.8 rebounds, and 3.8 blocks per game and named to the Allstar team). Hopefully Zach continues his progression but skepticism is warranted on whther he will ever be able to physically dominate mature pros like he can 18 and 19 year olds. However, we are so desperate for centres at the SMNT level I can accept his relative importance, I do think Kyle Alexander is much better at this time and more important to the program today, but I could see Zach at a time not too far offer as the most important true big outside the NBA for the SMNT. But I do think #25 is too high for today.

Hair Canada · Post #15 » by **Hair Canada** » Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:37 pm

TheFutureMM wrote:Love this list - trying to figure out whose left and predict the final rankings:

10. Nickeil Alexander-Walker
9. Kevin Pangos
8. Lu Dort
7. Chris Boucher
6. RJ Barrett
5. Dillon Brooks
4. Kelly Olynyk
3. Andrew Wiggins
2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
1. Jamal Murray

You have everyone here. But my order is slightly different.

TheFutureMM · Post #16 » by **TheFutureMM** » Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:07 pm

Hair Canada wrote:
TheFutureMM wrote:Love this list - trying to figure out whose left and predict the final rankings:

10. Nickeil Alexander-Walker
9. Kevin Pangos
8. Lu Dort
7. Chris Boucher
6. RJ Barrett
5. Dillon Brooks
4. Kelly Olynyk
3. Andrew Wiggins
2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
1. Jamal Murray

You have everyone here. But my order is slightly different.

Yeah, I figured - at this stage in the list, everything is subjective beyond 1 & 2. Curious to see where you end up having Pangos.

Hair Canada · Post #17 » by **Hair Canada** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:17 pm

The top-10 (ranking from the previous year in parentheses)

10 (14). Chris Boucher | Toronto Raptors, NBA | 28.7yo PF | 6'10, 215lbs, 7'4 wingspan | Oregon | Montreal, QC
Finally, the breakout season I've been waiting for from Boucher. With Gasol and Ibaka gone, and Baynes crashing and burning, the Bloc Quebecois finally got some real minutes and produced big time, showing he's just too good to be buried at the end of the rotation. I've seen a lot of speculation about his ceiling and whether he should be traded. For me, that's just Raptors fans not being able to fully enjoy a fantastic homegrown success story without always looking sideways for greener grass. If not for the breakout seasons from Barrett, NAW, and Dort (all of whom I also expect to further improve next year), Chris would have been ranked even higher here. I love his passion for the game and the intensity he plays with and he'd be a great addition to Team Canada if he ever suits up.

9 (13). Kevin Pangos | Cleaveland Cavaliers, NBA | 28.7yo PG | 6'2, 185lbs, 6'0 wingspan | Gonzaga | Holland Landing, ON
Pangos would have been the first non-NBA guy on this list. But after a tremendous year in Europe, in which he nearly led an underdog Zenit team to the Final Four with spectacular showings all season long and particularly in the playoffs, the NBA finally figured that he's just too good to not be given a chance and Cleaveland made the move. I hope it’s going to be a real chance and he's going to stick around. Still has his defensive limitations but he's as pure of a PG and a shooter as they come and we really missed him in Victoria.

8 (6). Luguentz Dort | OKC Thunder, NBA | 22.4yo SG | 6'4, 215lbs, 6'9 wingspan | Arizona State | Montreal, QC
After surprising everyone in his rookie year, Dort continued his meteoric rise. The only reason he's lower on my list compared to last year is the rise of other players and it has nothing to do with him and how he performed. Playing for a weak Shai-less OKC team, Dort showed that he can be more than just a superb defender (which he is). Over a 7 game stretch in the month of April, he exploded for 24 points a game, shooting 46% from 3 on 8 shots behind the arc per game. Clearly, that was an unsustainable hot streak and it's not who I expect him to be (and OKC was truly terrible). But he did show that he has more offensive potential than anyone imagined. If he can continue to improve his shooting and especially his finishing around the rim, which is still quite bad despite his physical strength, the Marcus Smart comparisons will become a reality.

7 (15). Nickeil Alexander-Walker | New Orleans Pelicans, NBA | 23.1yo SG | 6'6, 210lbs, 6'10 wingspan | Virignia Tech | Vaughan, ON
After a disappointing rookie year, characterized by shooting inefficiencies and overall mediocre play, NAW looked much better last year, especially in the second part of the season, where he started playing bigger minutes. After the all-star break, Nickeil put up 15.5 points per game, shooting 38% from 3, while also showing some nice glimpses of playmaking. Now, with Ball and Bledso gone, I expect NAW to get big minutes this year, and hopefully show that he's at the very least a legit starting guard in this league. His good performance for Team Canada in the Victoria qualifiers certainly suggests that he has all the tools to be just that.

6 (10). RJ Barrett | NY Knicks, NBA | 21.3yo SG | 6'7, 215lbs, 6'10 wingspan | Duke | Toronto, ON
Like NAW, Barrett also had a disappointing rookie year but was able to turn things around in his second year in the league. He significantly improved his shooting (don’t think the 40% 3-point clip is sustainable, but it was still great to see) and showed that he can be a solid second or third option on a playoff team, which many have doubted when he just came into the league (and even more after his first year). He also improved his defense this year and hopefully, he can make another jump in his third year. Like NAW, RJ also looked good for Team Canada in Victoria and gets some points for his performance there (and for suiting up) in my book.

5 (7). Andrew Wiggins | Golden State Warriors, NBA | 26.6yo SF | 6'8, 200lbs, 7'0 wingspan | Kansas | Toronto, ON
Putting aside, for now, the whole vax refusal debacle, Wiggins continues to advance on my Annual power ranking (from #13 two years ago, to #7 last year, to #5 this year). I thought this was the best year of his career, as he's finally settling into the role that seems to fit him best -- a second, or better yet third offensive option on a talented team. In this role, he put up the best shooting numbers of his career (though on the lowest usage since his rookie season). And maybe most encouraging, he was also actually a good defender, finally able to put his natural tools to good use and make an impact on that side of the floor. Finally, he gets extra credit for showing up this summer for Team Canada (I didn’t think that’s goanna happen anymore) and I thought he also played well in this setting. Now can he just take the damn shot?

4 (3). Kelly Olynyk |Detroit Pistons, NBA | 30.4yo C | 7'0, 240lbs, 6'10 wingspan | Gonzaga | Kamloops, BC
Kelly drops one spot on this ranking. And not because he regressed since last year, but rather because of the progress shown by the guy in front of him. Kelly remains my favorite big from the point of view of Team Canada, with his shooting, passing, great reading of the game, and overall fit for the international play. He really showed all these qualities after the move to Huston in the second part of the season. And I hope he can keep this form in Detroit next year and rejoin Team Canada next summer, now that he got his long-term contract.

3 (5). Dillon Brooks | Memphis Grizzlies, NBA | 25.7yo SF | 6'7, 220lbs, 6'7 wingspan | Oregon | Mississauga, ON
There might be some recency bias here, but Dillon looked like an NBA star at the end of last season, playing his best career basketball when it mattered most, in both the play-in games and the playoff series against Utah (26 points per game on 60% true shooting). If he can sustain this form, then he's an all-star. It's quite unlikely given he's been a rather inefficient volume shooter throughout his career so far. But Brooks has also made another defensive jump this year, becoming one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. I'd take his enthusiasm, passion for the game, fighting spirit, fearless mentality, and willpower any day and live with the flaws.

2 (1). Jamal Murray | Denver Nuggets, NBA | 24.6yo PG | 6'5, 215lbs, 6'7 wingspan | Kentucky | Kitchener, ON
In tradition, Jamal started last season quietly. But by the beginning of 2021, he started to percolate and come back to his 2020 bubble form, while also showing additional defensive improvement. And then came that horrible ACL injury, which is the only reason he's not in the number 1 spot again this year. Hope he comes back toward the middle of the season and settles into his old form as quickly as possible. If he can do that, I'm still saving the top spot for him. We miss you Jamal!

1 (2). Shai Gilgeous-Alexander | OKC Thunder, NBA | 23.2yo PG | 6'6, 180lbs, 7'0 wingspan | Kentucky | Toronto, ON
SGA is partly here because of Murray's injury, but he's also done a lot to deserve the top position and it would not be surprising if he maintains it next year. A fantastic season from Shai, surpassing even my most rosy expectations. Made a jump in just about every possible offensive aspect (though still not enough defensively), including tremendous improvements in passing and 3-point shooting. And he managed to do it with amazing efficiency, despite shouldering a much larger offensive load and having to self-create almost all of his shots. Was also able to propel a weak OKC team to a surprisingly strong first half of the season, before being shut down due to injury (and OKC actively trying to be bad). Already an all-star level player and if he can make another jump he'll be a superstar.

mojo13 · Post #18 » by **mojo13** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:52 pm

Again good stuff and hard to argue with any of these.

I'm looking at the top 10 (11 for me) as tiers and can agree with anyone's order within those tiers.

I see #7 through 11 as Tier 3 (Birch, Boucher, Pangos, Dort, NAW) . I'd really like to see Khem Birch in the Top 10, as I think he was massively undervalued in Orlando, and is still somewhat in TO (people don't think what they saw at the end of the season is real). But really can't make a good argument for who Birch should be above. Pangos seems the likely target since is not an establish NBA player like Birch, but personally I highly value his FIBA experience when considering the SMNT. In a pure SMNT setting I might be selecting Pangos before a number of guys ranked above him due to skillset, experience and need.

#3 through 6 (Brooks, KO, Wiggins, Barrett) is Tier 2 for me and are mostly interchangeable on the rankings IMO. I'd like to see more of playoff Brooks in the regular season before I'd have him at #3. Barrett has the most upside, best upward trend and the only one who I think can crack Tier 1. He should be a clear #3 by the end of the season.

#1 and #2 are obviously Tier 1 and have no beef with either order. I personally agree with SGA and think he is #1 whether Jamal is healthy or not. SGA does so many things at an elite level - perhaps already the best drive game in the league. He still has tremendous upside and really has All-NBA potential. I don't really see that with Jamal and often think he gets a little over-hyped due to his irregular "insanity mode" which produces eye popping scoring outputs. He was much, much better on D last season before he was hurt, but I still don't see the upside and all-around game that SGA is showing. Suffice to say both are All-Star caliber guards but I don't think Murray has the All-NBA, carry a team to title as the #1 option potential like SGA has.

Hair Canada · Post #19 » by **Hair Canada** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:48 pm

KL78192020 · Post #20 » by **KL78192020** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:53 pm

Hair Canada wrote:
TheFutureMM wrote:Love this list - trying to figure out whose left and predict the final rankings:

10. Nickeil Alexander-Walker
9. Kevin Pangos
8. Lu Dort
7. Chris Boucher
6. RJ Barrett
5. Dillon Brooks
4. Kelly Olynyk
3. Andrew Wiggins
2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
1. Jamal Murray

You have everyone here. But my order is slightly different.

Pangos seems a bit time, would take Cojo and a few others above him.