ImageImageImageImageImage

2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread

Moderators: 7 Footer, Reeko, lebron stopper, Morris_Shatford, DG88, niQ, gojoorange

User avatar
PrinceAli
RealGM
Posts: 10,751
And1: 17,267
Joined: Mar 11, 2018
         

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#421 » by PrinceAli » Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:47 am

agkagk wrote:
PrinceAli wrote:
agkagk wrote:To anybody who posts we need to trade Fred for a “real point guard”……

I question your understanding of the game of basketball.

So you think Fred is a pure pg?



He’s an excellent leader and influence which are paramount to being a good floor general.

He may not have elite tools but to say he isn’t a real point guard is just ig’nant

A true PG makes players around him better. Like Lowry

Fred doesn’t do that. He’s score first. It’s not a bad thing in the sense that he’s a bad player. He’s just not a real PG. he’s a SG in a PG body
Image
agkagk
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,417
And1: 863
Joined: Sep 03, 2011

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#422 » by agkagk » Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:18 pm

PrinceAli wrote:
agkagk wrote:
PrinceAli wrote:So you think Fred is a pure pg?



He’s an excellent leader and influence which are paramount to being a good floor general.

He may not have elite tools but to say he isn’t a real point guard is just ig’nant

A true PG makes players around him better. Like Lowry

Fred doesn’t do that. He’s score first. It’s not a bad thing in the sense that he’s a bad player. He’s just not a real PG. he’s a SG in a PG body



No he’s just not as good as Lowry.

Take Fred out and replace him with a league average point. Guard and we’re a mess.

Yes, Fred makes his teammates better.
tecumseh18
RealGM
Posts: 15,258
And1: 7,556
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Location: Big green house
 

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#423 » by tecumseh18 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:44 pm

agkagk wrote:
PrinceAli wrote:
agkagk wrote:

He’s an excellent leader and influence which are paramount to being a good floor general.

He may not have elite tools but to say he isn’t a real point guard is just ig’nant

A true PG makes players around him better. Like Lowry

Fred doesn’t do that. He’s score first. It’s not a bad thing in the sense that he’s a bad player. He’s just not a real PG. he’s a SG in a PG body



No he’s just not as good as Lowry.

Take Fred out and replace him with a league average point. Guard and we’re a mess.

Yes, Fred makes his teammates better.


And let's bear in mind - Lowry developed over the last decade. When he came to Toronto, he was a score first guy. He wasn't a pick n' roll guy. Lowry used his advanced BBIQ to improve. Fred obviously has a brain, and chances are will improve in the same way.
"Say asterisk one more time, m_____rf_____r!"
Saul Goodman
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,084
And1: 1,888
Joined: Feb 27, 2013
         

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#424 » by Saul Goodman » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:00 am

I hope Vivek becomes desperate and goes all in for pascal.


Hield
Bagley
Davion Mitchell
2022 1st top 3 protected
2024 unprotected


For

Siakam
Flynn


Basically the same return of vuc from the bulls. We get a perfect fitting PG prospect and a look at a potential lottery pick next season. Hield and bagley add much needed depth.
2016 GMAT Blazers

Howard/Nene/
Griffin/M.Leonard/T.Jones
Porter/Marc.Morris/J.Johnson
McCollum/Stauskas/Thompson/Seldon
Lillard/Bayless/DeColo
Rapsfan07
RealGM
Posts: 10,993
And1: 3,282
Joined: Nov 19, 2010
 

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#425 » by Rapsfan07 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:51 am

Saul Goodman wrote:I hope Vivek becomes desperate and goes all in for pascal.


Hield
Bagley
Davion Mitchell
2022 1st top 3 protected
2024 unprotected


For

Siakam
Flynn


Basically the same return of vuc from the bulls. We get a perfect fitting PG prospect and a look at a potential lottery pick next season. Hield and bagley add much needed depth.


Said it before and I'll say it again - If Haliburton is not coming to Toronto, Siakam is not going to the Kings.

We're trading an all-star two way PF. This return isn't good enough.
Image
Saul Goodman
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,084
And1: 1,888
Joined: Feb 27, 2013
         

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#426 » by Saul Goodman » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:04 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:
Saul Goodman wrote:I hope Vivek becomes desperate and goes all in for pascal.


Hield
Bagley
Davion Mitchell
2022 1st top 3 protected
2024 unprotected


For

Siakam
Flynn


Basically the same return of vuc from the bulls. We get a perfect fitting PG prospect and a look at a potential lottery pick next season. Hield and bagley add much needed depth.


Said it before and I'll say it again - If Haliburton is not coming to Toronto, Siakam is not going to the Kings.

We're trading an all-star two way PF. This return isn't good enough.


Fair point. I think this deal would be a short against the kings ever being good and getting another lottery pick.
2016 GMAT Blazers

Howard/Nene/
Griffin/M.Leonard/T.Jones
Porter/Marc.Morris/J.Johnson
McCollum/Stauskas/Thompson/Seldon
Lillard/Bayless/DeColo
treerollins
Senior
Posts: 512
And1: 202
Joined: Mar 05, 2007

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#427 » by treerollins » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:20 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:
Saul Goodman wrote:I hope Vivek becomes desperate and goes all in for pascal.


Said it before and I'll say it again - If Haliburton is not coming to Toronto, Siakam is not going to the Kings.

We're trading an all-star two way PF. This return isn't good enough.


I still think Fox is the Sacramento PG to target. Haliburton is nice on a rookie scale contract but I'm not trading for him just to pay him. Move our 'is he really worth a max deal' guy (Siakam) for their 'is he really worth a max deal' guy (Fox).

Kings fans might say Fox is not available, idk but he has good size at the PG spot, decent outside shot, decent finishing ability, one of the fastest players in the league, can push in transition or get penetration in the half court. Willing to take big shots. Pretty ideal fit for our squad.

When I propose Pascal and Dragic for Fox and Bagley it's leaning on the Bagley situation to possibly get another high upside guy who we can work with for half a year and then make the call if we want to match as an RFA.

Kings starting 5 would be: Holmes, Siakam, Barnes, Hield, Haliburton. I think it's an upgrade, Hield makes too much to come off the bench and Barnes is willing to take big shots. With 3 versatile defenders they can hide Hield on the other teams weakest guy.

If we send Indiana FVV for Turner.. a lot of if's. But it's a possibility, then

Raptors starting 5: Turner, Barnes, OG, Trent, Fox. This opens up the floor for Barnes with 4 "floor spacers" around him, helps us play a more traditional defense with a shot blocker, Fox can collapse a defense in the half court in late clock without being so ball dominant where we can still run plays for OG and GTJ. Only downside I see is losing our veteran leadership/ not sure how we make up for that tbh.
waiting for ai referees
Rapsfan07
RealGM
Posts: 10,993
And1: 3,282
Joined: Nov 19, 2010
 

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#428 » by Rapsfan07 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:51 pm

treerollins wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:
Saul Goodman wrote:I hope Vivek becomes desperate and goes all in for pascal.


Said it before and I'll say it again - If Haliburton is not coming to Toronto, Siakam is not going to the Kings.

We're trading an all-star two way PF. This return isn't good enough.


I still think Fox is the Sacramento PG to target. Haliburton is nice on a rookie scale contract but I'm not trading for him just to pay him. Move our 'is he really worth a max deal' guy (Siakam) for their 'is he really worth a max deal' guy (Fox).

Kings fans might say Fox is not available, idk but he has good size at the PG spot, decent outside shot, decent finishing ability, one of the fastest players in the league, can push in transition or get penetration in the half court. Willing to take big shots. Pretty ideal fit for our squad.

When I propose Pascal and Dragic for Fox and Bagley it's leaning on the Bagley situation to possibly get another high upside guy who we can work with for half a year and then make the call if we want to match as an RFA.

Kings starting 5 would be: Holmes, Siakam, Barnes, Hield, Haliburton. I think it's an upgrade, Hield makes too much to come off the bench and Barnes is willing to take big shots. With 3 versatile defenders they can hide Hield on the other teams weakest guy.

If we send Indiana FVV for Turner.. a lot of if's. But it's a possibility, then

Raptors starting 5: Turner, Barnes, OG, Trent, Fox. This opens up the floor for Barnes with 4 "floor spacers" around him, helps us play a more traditional defense with a shot blocker, Fox can collapse a defense in the half court in late clock without being so ball dominant where we can still run plays for OG and GTJ. Only downside I see is losing our veteran leadership/ not sure how we make up for that tbh.


How does doing that put us in a better position?

If we're trading Siakam, it needs to be for a clear upgrade. Not for a guy who's also maxed and he may or may not be worth it.

Also, as good as Turner has been this year, I think Vanvleet is more valuable.
Image
NotMyKawhi
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,098
And1: 4,144
Joined: Jul 13, 2018

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#429 » by NotMyKawhi » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:56 pm

I wonder if Jokic will ever become available.

Porter injured for the year, bad back is a big problem. Just signed the max. Jamal is injured still, locked in for years and years. They may be stuck
Rapsfan07
RealGM
Posts: 10,993
And1: 3,282
Joined: Nov 19, 2010
 

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#430 » by Rapsfan07 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:06 am

NotMyKawhi wrote:I wonder if Jokic will ever become available.

Porter injured for the year, bad back is a big problem. Just signed the max. Jamal is injured still, locked in for years and years. They may be stuck


Very interesting thought.

I don't know whether or not Denver would consider dealing him but they definitely are stuck.

I have to imagine they'd try to deal Porter and Murray first though
Image
RapsFan008
Senior
Posts: 691
And1: 522
Joined: Mar 05, 2021
 

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#431 » by RapsFan008 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:56 am

I don’t think you can deal MVP level players like Jokic unless they ask out themselves.

If they end up sucking that badly to be in the lottery it should be just a one year thing. Once Murray and Porter comes back they’ll be fine again.

If they can package Murray or Porter for a top 10 player, even better.
User avatar
LBJKB24MJ23
RealGM
Posts: 15,954
And1: 15,415
Joined: Jan 22, 2014
     

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#432 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:14 pm

agkagk wrote:
PrinceAli wrote:
agkagk wrote:

He’s an excellent leader and influence which are paramount to being a good floor general.

He may not have elite tools but to say he isn’t a real point guard is just ig’nant

A true PG makes players around him better. Like Lowry

Fred doesn’t do that. He’s score first. It’s not a bad thing in the sense that he’s a bad player. He’s just not a real PG. he’s a SG in a PG body



No he’s just not as good as Lowry.

Take Fred out and replace him with a league average point. Guard and we’re a mess.

Yes, Fred makes his teammates better.


The Raptors are already a mess. this does not make your argument stronger.

and other than Khem Birch, can you really say he's making siakam a better player? is he making OG a better player? is he making Barnes a better player? without FVV (and replace them with a less shooting point guard) can these guys get the same stats as they already do? I would say these guys perform the same or a little better. ofc FVV brings his above average 3 point shooting to the floor as well.

if anything this guy should be making Precious a better player, and Boucher etc. considering the players above are minor star players.

i'll give it some time though. FVV has new teammates he's working with and he's finally gotten the reigns of his own team. but right now, he's not the point guard that makes players around him better - but I think he can do it by season's end considering he wants to make the playoffs, win all the awards etc. the only way he does that is really integrating everyone into his offense.
User avatar
Psubs
RealGM
Posts: 12,995
And1: 8,476
Joined: Nov 20, 2004
Location: Toronto

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#433 » by Psubs » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:30 pm

RapsFan008 wrote:I don’t think you can deal MVP level players like Jokic unless they ask out themselves.

If they end up sucking that badly to be in the lottery it should be just a one year thing. Once Murray and Porter comes back they’ll be fine again.

If they can package Murray or Porter for a top 10 player, even better.


What about trading FVV and Boucher for Murray? Denver gets a useful guard to pair with excellent passing Jokic. Murray is likely out until April and can take his time and return for the 2022/2023 season 100%. Insurance should cover this season, saving the team money.

Denver is sinking having lost 4 in a row but remain the 8th seed only 2 games out of the 3rd seed. Boucher can fill bench minutes for MPJr.

PG Banton/Dragic
SG Trent - Svi
SF OG - Barnes - Yuta
PF Siakam - Barnes - Yuta
C Birch - Precious
Image
Rapsfan07
RealGM
Posts: 10,993
And1: 3,282
Joined: Nov 19, 2010
 

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#434 » by Rapsfan07 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:25 pm

Psubs wrote:
RapsFan008 wrote:I don’t think you can deal MVP level players like Jokic unless they ask out themselves.

If they end up sucking that badly to be in the lottery it should be just a one year thing. Once Murray and Porter comes back they’ll be fine again.

If they can package Murray or Porter for a top 10 player, even better.


What about trading FVV and Boucher for Murray? Denver gets a useful guard to pair with excellent passing Jokic. Murray is likely out until April and can take his time and return for the 2022/2023 season 100%. Insurance should cover this season, saving the team money.

Denver is sinking having lost 4 in a row but remain the 8th seed only 2 games out of the 3rd seed. Boucher can fill bench minutes for MPJr.

PG Banton/Dragic
SG Trent - Svi
SF OG - Barnes - Yuta
PF Siakam - Barnes - Yuta
C Birch - Precious


We don't know how Murray will come back from something like this. Nowadays, more guys are returning to form after ACL injuries than ever before but we still don't know.

This isn't the first deal I'd make for FVV. Regardless of what you think about him, he's still a very valuable player. But if there isn't anything better, I'd consider this.
Image
causal_fan
Ballboy
Posts: 25
And1: 21
Joined: Oct 06, 2021
   

Kings potential Shakeup 

Post#435 » by causal_fan » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:32 pm

The Kings very likely will be making trades to shake things up - whom can the Raptors reasonably target( players, picks)? I know we are not getting Tyrese Haliburton but more plausible targets.
wegotthabeet
Sophomore
Posts: 116
And1: 72
Joined: Jun 29, 2021
 

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#436 » by wegotthabeet » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:43 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:
NotMyKawhi wrote:I wonder if Jokic will ever become available.

Porter injured for the year, bad back is a big problem. Just signed the max. Jamal is injured still, locked in for years and years. They may be stuck


Very interesting thought.

I don't know whether or not Denver would consider dealing him but they definitely are stuck.

I have to imagine they'd try to deal Porter and Murray first though


Jokic becomes a free agent in 2023. We could create the room for him theoretically by renouncing Trent Jr. & FVV even if it's a less 1% chance of happening.

Banton
Anunoby
Barnes
Siakam
Jokic
C-R-E-A-M-
Junior
Posts: 263
And1: 444
Joined: Mar 27, 2016
 

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#437 » by C-R-E-A-M- » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:55 pm

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/11/22/22796148/luke-walton-sacramento-kings-deaaron-fox

Siakam for Fox

Kings drafted two PGs in back to back drafts. Siakam would help their defense. They are desperate to make the playoffs even just a play in game. Raptors get a 23 year old that averaged 25 points last season. Fits the timeline with OG ands Scottie

Hali-Hield-Barnes-Siakam-Holmes

FVV-Fox-OG-Scottie-Birch
GTJ helps the bench out which is last in the league in scoring
sidsid
Veteran
Posts: 2,519
And1: 1,832
Joined: Jun 03, 2003

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#438 » by sidsid » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:46 pm

Psubs wrote:
RapsFan008 wrote:I don’t think you can deal MVP level players like Jokic unless they ask out themselves.

If they end up sucking that badly to be in the lottery it should be just a one year thing. Once Murray and Porter comes back they’ll be fine again.

If they can package Murray or Porter for a top 10 player, even better.


What about trading FVV and Boucher for Murray? Denver gets a useful guard to pair with excellent passing Jokic. Murray is likely out until April and can take his time and return for the 2022/2023 season 100%. Insurance should cover this season, saving the team money.

Denver is sinking having lost 4 in a row but remain the 8th seed only 2 games out of the 3rd seed. Boucher can fill bench minutes for MPJr.

PG Banton/Dragic
SG Trent - Svi
SF OG - Barnes - Yuta
PF Siakam - Barnes - Yuta
C Birch - Precious


Denver would want stars back for Murray, even if he's coming back from a major surgery. We could give them solid depth talent like Trent and FVV to fill out the rotation, but they're a team that's had plenty of that over the years. They're looking for ceiling pieces.

That being said, this could be a Simmons destination if Denver doesn't like what they're seeing from Murray coming back. They've only got two years to show progress with Jokic.
Los_29
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,603
And1: 1,623
Joined: Apr 10, 2021

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#439 » by Los_29 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:53 pm

C-R-E-A-M- wrote:https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/11/22/22796148/luke-walton-sacramento-kings-deaaron-fox

Siakam for Fox

Kings drafted two PGs in back to back drafts. Siakam would help their defense. They are desperate to make the playoffs even just a play in game. Raptors get a 23 year old that averaged 25 points last season. Fits the timeline with OG ands Scottie

Hali-Hield-Barnes-Siakam-Holmes

FVV-Fox-OG-Scottie-Birch
GTJ helps the bench out which is last in the league in scoring


There is absolutely no way Masai trades for a guy like Fox. None whatsoever.
User avatar
Psubs
RealGM
Posts: 12,995
And1: 8,476
Joined: Nov 20, 2004
Location: Toronto

Re: 2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread 

Post#440 » by Psubs » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:20 pm

Los_29 wrote:
C-R-E-A-M- wrote:https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/11/22/22796148/luke-walton-sacramento-kings-deaaron-fox

Siakam for Fox

Kings drafted two PGs in back to back drafts. Siakam would help their defense. They are desperate to make the playoffs even just a play in game. Raptors get a 23 year old that averaged 25 points last season. Fits the timeline with OG ands Scottie

Hali-Hield-Barnes-Siakam-Holmes

FVV-Fox-OG-Scottie-Birch
GTJ helps the bench out which is last in the league in scoring


There is absolutely no way Masai trades for a guy like Fox. None whatsoever.


Fox put up stats on a bad team. He's fast but he can't shoot from outside. He's flawed on a level of like Sexton. Sexton can score but he's like a 6'1 SG that isn't good on defense. Fox is also making the max. I'd rather trade Pascal for Simmons and I don't want that either.
Image

Return to Toronto Raptors