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Madhouse wrote:Los_29 wrote:Madhouse wrote:
yeah but he is injured now. This will only further contribute to declining numbers and declining production and contribution.
Where did you hear that he is injured? I haven't seen any reports that he's injured.
He was favoring his hip and on top of that just dealt with knee tendinitis
Los_29 wrote:Madhouse wrote:Los_29 wrote:
Where did you hear that he is injured? I haven't seen any reports that he's injured.
He was favoring his hip and on top of that just dealt with knee tendinitis
So he's not injured then considering he came back and finished the game.
alienchild wrote:srhcan wrote:If the big 4 stay uninjured then Raptors will replace Barnes with a Center (Birch/Auchiwa) in starting lineup
soon
No they won't. Birch/Achiuwa are meant to sub in for one of our 3 jumbo wings if necessary and anchor a second unit with a different type of play than our starters. Our current starters are likely to be pretty standard for the rest of the season.
Club Shai Shai GA
alienchild wrote:srhcan wrote:If the big 4 stay uninjured then Raptors will replace Barnes with a Center (Birch/Auchiwa) in starting lineup
soon
No they won't. Birch/Achiuwa are meant to sub in for one of our 3 jumbo wings if necessary and anchor a second unit with a different type of play than our starters. Our current starters are likely to be pretty standard for the rest of the season.
srhcan wrote:alienchild wrote:srhcan wrote:If the big 4 stay uninjured then Raptors will replace Barnes with a Center (Birch/Auchiwa) in starting lineup
soon
No they won't. Birch/Achiuwa are meant to sub in for one of our 3 jumbo wings if necessary and anchor a second unit with a different type of play than our starters. Our current starters are likely to be pretty standard for the rest of the season.
It depends how much you value winning over development. I personally think Toronto should value development more as even at full strength they are too weak and will not beat any of the 6 teams above them on full strength in a series.
But Nurse may value winning more; his first season he got championship, then next season win 50+ games even with Kwahi gone. With such a stellar record I dont think he would sacrifice winning over development.
libertyYYZ wrote:
The clip cuts the sequence short, but Barnes was in the post checking passing options and then made the final pass fake to go into a Nowitzki fade shot with the clock winding down. It was a wow moment that I've never seen a from a rookie. It had me hooting like a proud father!
PhilBlackson wrote:I just feel like since this is a Scottie thread discussing him & I've started to see more and more people liken his development to Kawhi, I'll basically re-post what I said in a derailed Tank thread but..you couldn't classify my take on this discussion about Scottie's reduced role as "upset" but I do think there is some LEGITIMACY to questioning it and in regards to the comparison to Kawhi is not really apples to apples. While not entirely different, there are also some key distingushments from rookie Kawhi's situation vs rookie Scottie that should have Scottie with a larger one than what Kawhi had (we'll even completely put aside the expectations of a rookie at the top of the lottery vs the very end of it)...
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1. As much as some people want to call "Fred, Pascal & OG" a "championship core"....they are not and "Tim, Tony & Manu" however were. They didn't NEED to add a "Kawhi" (especially a fully developed GOAT level Playoff performance one) in order to win championship without him in their primes --nvm the emotional and on/off court leader in Kyle Lowry plus the arguably 2nd biggest factor to us winning a championship in our league best C depth (Gasol/Ibaka)....SAS already had WON SEVERAL RINGS without him and THEY were THE lead guys especially with the face of the franchise and top 10 player all time Tim Duncan STILL there, they had a loooong resume of deep Playoff runs and still very much in a championship hunt with or without him. Not the case here
Scottie is entering a team that just obtained him in the lottery and Fred, Pascal & OG, we all know clearly isn't a level of Tim, Manu & Tony but they haven't even proven to make a Playoffs, nevermind deep runs and multiple rings as THE guys..that's one.
--------------
2. Kawhi was a much more limited player offensively than Scottie is right now. Kawhi was basically "the Board Man", go in there rebound, get some touches around the basket as a result, defend get some buckets from the turnovers, they'll try to find him here or there as he cleans up his shooting mechanics and adds to his game etc. If you actually watch Kawhi as rookie, his game was really limited. He needed a lot of work to expand it further & further from just being the odd open shot or stuff around the net. They really, really worked on his shot to make him a better pitch out option to again increase his points. Then eventually as he added different spots he could get to, shot was looking more & more consistent they expanded his role to increase as his capacity/ability did. He's not at level as a rookie Scottie is...doesn't mean Scottie will be better than Kawhi because Kawhi's development is one of the most unprecedented in league history but nonetheless, Scottie can do MORE as a rookie than Kawhi was able to as a rookie
Scottie has ALREADY shown he's pretty much a 3 level scorer, post, mid and 3pt range and he's not doing it as some spot up option or hustle points like young Kawhi. He's self generating most of his own looks! It's apples to oranges what he has done/is doing vs how Kawhi was and it's not like his development is hurting the team. He has the best turnover ratio out of all the top rookies, he's playing within himself, making the right decisions, pretty much everything he's been doing feels to be within the flow of the offence. Kawhi when he was younger was struggling to know when to take his shots, to reduce taking bad ones and also do a better job looking for his teammates (which imo he STILL struggles with)....again not the case with Scottie, if anything he's had to be asked to look for his own MORE because he is so DAMN good at passing and generally makes wonderful decisions when he does that makes it dead easy for his teammates to score
In short I really don't believe that's apples to apples at all...different situation, different talent levels that they entered at. Scottie just flat out does deserve a larger role than that but we'll see how things progress.
PhilBlackson wrote:I just feel like since this is a Scottie thread discussing him & I've started to see more and more people liken his development to Kawhi, I'll basically re-post what I said in a derailed Tank thread but..you couldn't classify my take on this discussion about Scottie's reduced role as "upset" but I do think there is some LEGITIMACY to questioning it and in regards to the comparison to Kawhi is not really apples to apples. While not entirely different, there are also some key distingushments from rookie Kawhi's situation vs rookie Scottie that should have Scottie with a larger one than what Kawhi had (we'll even completely put aside the expectations of a rookie at the top of the lottery vs the very end of it)...
---------------
1. As much as some people want to call "Fred, Pascal & OG" a "championship core"....they are not and "Tim, Tony & Manu" however were. They didn't NEED to add a "Kawhi" (especially a fully developed GOAT level Playoff performance one) in order to win championship without him in their primes --nvm the emotional and on/off court leader in Kyle Lowry plus the arguably 2nd biggest factor to us winning a championship in our league best C depth (Gasol/Ibaka)....SAS already had WON SEVERAL RINGS without him and THEY were THE lead guys especially with the face of the franchise and top 10 player all time Tim Duncan STILL there, they had a loooong resume of deep Playoff runs and still very much in a championship hunt with or without him. Not the case here
Scottie is entering a team that just obtained him in the lottery and Fred, Pascal & OG, we all know clearly isn't a level of Tim, Manu & Tony but they haven't even proven to make a Playoffs, nevermind deep runs and multiple rings as THE guys..that's one.
--------------
2. Kawhi was a much more limited player offensively than Scottie is right now. Kawhi was basically "the Board Man", go in there rebound, get some touches around the basket as a result, defend get some buckets from the turnovers, they'll try to find him here or there as he cleans up his shooting mechanics and adds to his game etc. If you actually watch Kawhi as rookie, his game was really limited. He needed a lot of work to expand it further & further from just being the odd open shot or stuff around the net. They really, really worked on his shot to make him a better pitch out option to again increase his points. Then eventually as he added different spots he could get to, shot was looking more & more consistent they expanded his role to increase as his capacity/ability did. He's not at level as a rookie Scottie is...doesn't mean Scottie will be better than Kawhi because Kawhi's development is one of the most unprecedented in league history but nonetheless, Scottie can do MORE as a rookie than Kawhi was able to as a rookie
Scottie has ALREADY shown he's pretty much a 3 level scorer, post, mid and 3pt range and he's not doing it as some spot up option or hustle points like young Kawhi. He's self generating most of his own looks! It's apples to oranges what he has done/is doing vs how Kawhi was and it's not like his development is hurting the team. He has the best turnover ratio out of all the top rookies, he's playing within himself, making the right decisions, pretty much everything he's been doing feels to be within the flow of the offence. Kawhi when he was younger was struggling to know when to take his shots, to reduce taking bad ones and also do a better job looking for his teammates (which imo he STILL struggles with)....again not the case with Scottie, if anything he's had to be asked to look for his own MORE because he is so DAMN good at passing and generally makes wonderful decisions when he does that makes it dead easy for his teammates to score
In short I really don't believe that's apples to apples at all...different situation, different talent levels that they entered at. Scottie just flat out does deserve a larger role than that but we'll see how things progress.
Madhouse wrote:Los_29 wrote:Madhouse wrote:
He was favoring his hip and on top of that just dealt with knee tendinitis
So he's not injured then considering he came back and finished the game.
He is playing injured. Pushing through that's why you are going to see limited effectiveness.
HumbleRen wrote:Madhouse wrote:HumbleRen wrote:
Probably the type of injury where it won’t fully heal until it has surgery but not significant enough to make him get it during the season.
You’re not watching the raptors play if you think they have the luxury of sitting him.
They absolutely should have the luxury of sitting an injured Barnes who is taking 6-7 shots per game and is 6th in usage behind Booshay. Not that an injured player is very effective anyway.
He’s averaging 12/8/4 since everyone’s been healthy, you can’t replace those numbers with Boucher, like what lol ?
Dude-niagara wrote:HumbleRen wrote:Madhouse wrote:
They absolutely should have the luxury of sitting an injured Barnes who is taking 6-7 shots per game and is 6th in usage behind Booshay. Not that an injured player is very effective anyway.
He’s averaging 12/8/4 since everyone’s been healthy, you can’t replace those numbers with Boucher, like what lol ?
His stats are about to crash because he attempts will be lower then Precious the way Nurse coaches, terrible what they are doing to this kid
Madhouse wrote:Dude-niagara wrote:HumbleRen wrote:
He’s averaging 12/8/4 since everyone’s been healthy, you can’t replace those numbers with Boucher, like what lol ?
His stats are about to crash because he attempts will be lower then Precious the way Nurse coaches, terrible what they are doing to this kid
It's funny because Precious and Barnes attempts per 36 minutes are basically exactly the same.
Does it matter? He's significantly better at every facet of his game than what he's shown in college. Scottie has shown to be an effective player with the higher volume attempts up until end of DecemberLos_29 wrote:Madhouse wrote:
It's funny because Precious and Barnes attempts per 36 minutes are basically exactly the same.
What were Scottie's attempts in college?
Dalek wrote:The past couple games look like he has hit the rookie wall. The passing has been nice, but he hasn't been as aggressive. I wonder if him playing more C minutes has impacted his decline. It is physically taxing to play that position. It could also be that his conditioning has fallen off. Still don't understand how he got knee tendinitis when he couldn't practice during COVID - just weird.
Dude-niagara wrote:Madhouse wrote:Los_29 wrote:
So he's not injured then considering he came back and finished the game.
He is playing injured. Pushing through that's why you are going to see limited effectiveness.
He is fine, only think wrong is Fred and Siakam are hogging shots, you think Fred or Siakam would look good with 6 shots a night?
