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People hate on this guy because he's not Lowry.


He's a mediocre scorer.

He's always going to be a block party when he tries a layup in traffic.



What people don't realize, and I never realized till now is that he's an underrated distributer.


This year he's averaging a career high in assists and turnovers, averaging 8.2 assists to 4.2 turnovers, a 2/1 A/TO ratio. Good but not great.


This is also by far his worst career A/TO since his rookie year.

The years before?

2017-18.....3.2 assist/1 turn overs................3/1 ratio
2018-19.....4.8 assists/1.3 turn overs............3.7/1 ratio
2019-20-----6.6 assists/2.2 turn overs............3/1 ratio
2020-21-----6.3 assists/1.8 turn overs............3.5/1 ratio

This year----8.2 assists/4.2 turnovers.............2/1 ratio.


Let's see if he can get back to the 3/1 A/TO or better ratio he had in the past with the increased responsibility.

This is not me saying he's an all star/superstar distributer, but the numbers indicate he's underrated.

Vampirate wrote:People hate on this guy because he's not Lowry.


He's a mediocre scorer.

He's always going to be a block party when he tries a layup in traffic.



What people don't realize, and I never realized till now is that he's an underrated distributer.


This year he's averaging a career high in assists and turnovers, averaging 8.2 assists to 4.2 turnovers, a 2/1 A/TO ratio. Good but not great.


This is also by far his worst career A/TO since his rookie year.

The years before?

2017-18.....3.2 assist/1 turn overs................3/1 ratio
2018-19.....4.8 assists/1.3 turn overs............3.7/1 ratio
2019-20-----6.6 assists/2.2 turn overs............3/1 ratio
2020-21-----6.3 assists/1.8 turn overs............3.5/1 ratio

This year----8.2 assists/4.2 turnovers.............2/1 ratio.


Let's see if he can get back to the 3/1 A/TO or better ratio he had in the past with the increased responsibility.

This is not me saying he's an all star/superstar distributer, but the numbers indicate he's underrated.

It's probably an enivitablility that his A/T goes down a bit given that he's gonna have so many more posessions. Also....our "riskiest" passer is gone (lowry) so if fred ONLY makes safe passes our offense will stagnate.

He ddfinitely needs to get it up a little higher though. If it's too high...it might indicate he's not taking enough risks which means not providing enough easy buckets.

As much as i defend him....it's true that he was probably getting too many possessions in some of the games so far this year. The pacers game seemed like the first time they were running him off-ball a little more and i think that might have been by design.

He's been great especially the last 2 games

My only problem with him is that he doesn't often setup plays (eg. to Barnes), but go against his matchup (eg. against Lonzo Ball who is pretty close to an elite defender).

He is more a SG than PG, and he is the only one who holds the ball more often. Either he improves enough to be a PG, or he is willing to setup for others, particularly, I don't get why Barnes isn't getting more touches on offense.

Fred is a good player. Anyone who argues otherwise is objectively wrong. He's a good defender. He's a good shooter. He's a good passer. He isn't elite in any one area, but he does so much well that it doesn't matter.

fred really is the missing piece on pretty much any time competing for a championship.

you get FVV off the bench on a team already good enough to win it? Fav imo

He's clearly our best 3 point shooter and hopefully when Pascal gets back he will get some off ball and catch & shoot reps.

Indeed wrote:My only problem with him is that he doesn't often setup plays (eg. to Barnes), but go against his matchup (eg. against Lonzo Ball who is pretty close to an elite defender).

He is more a SG than PG, and he is the only one who holds the ball more often. Either he improves enough to be a PG, or he is willing to setup for others, particularly, I don't get why Barnes isn't getting more touches on offense.

I agree with this, we really don’t have true PG that’s set up others. I’d argue the only true PG we really have is Delano Banton

The truth is he's a SG in a PG's body and an extremely streaky scorer. On the offensive end he's either really good or really bad from an efficiency standpoint. The fact that his good days can offset his bad (he has so many stinkers) shows how polarizing his offense is. His playmaking is average.

His defense is definitely underrated but I think it has lot to do with his size and not putting up crazy steals numbers that would make it more obvious. He possesses a lot of intangibles. It's when he forces things that he looks bad.

I think he can work on his shot but honestly he was supposed to be a scrub so to put up 16/8/5 even with shty efficiency I still have to give him props. It's on him to continue to improve.

vulture wrote:He's clearly our best 3 point shooter and hopefully when Pascal gets back he will get some off ball and catch & shoot reps.

Nah I think OG is our best guy from range but that’s up for debate. I hear you.

Fred is not a bad player, he’s a good player that’s asked to do things he can’t. His biggest issues are playmaking and taking too long to get our team into their sets. In response to this it looks like Nurse is going to start letting other players bring the ball up and initiate the actions.

Fred offers so much on defence that it’s hard to trade him. He also routinely makes huge shots even when he’s having one of his 1/9 from deep shooting nights. Our issue is we ask him to play like Chris Paul when he isn’t that.

I’ve really liked what I’ve seen from him this year. He’s clearly worked on the midrange which once opponents adjust will give him more lanes into the paint where he can orchestrate more dump offs and corner three kickouts (which I’ve also seen more of this year). Overall, his shot selection has drastically improved.

I’m excited for him making the all-star team this year once we hit our stride in December and the league takes notice. Yes that’s a prediction.

I've tried to state the same about his passing before this season, but people just don't want to listen to it. just wait until the end of this season without Lowry and there won't be many reasons to hate that part of his game. I mean, the game threads are littered with "Fred can't pass" comments so you can expect to see tens of those in this thread, but without any further substance

Raps in 4 wrote:Fred is a good player. Anyone who argues otherwise is objectively wrong. He's a good defender. He's a good shooter. He's a good passer. He isn't elite in any one area, but he does so much well that it doesn't matter.

He's an elite on ball defender, or just an elite defender depending on how you view it.

vulture wrote:He's clearly our best 3 point shooter and hopefully when Pascal gets back he will get some off ball and catch & shoot reps.

It has nothing to do with pascal being back or not. This is the role they gave him... that's the problem... he should be used off the ball more. People have been saying it for years. But nick nurseclets him freeball. When he's on the floor with banton a non shooter banton should be handling the ball since fvv is the better shooter instead we have fvv dribbling and banton standing around for what... it makes no sense and that's where the frustration comes in.

Look up the league leaders in turnovers they’re all point guards and some of the best playmakers in the league. A good playmaker takes risks and the to’s are also a byproduct of handling thr ball more.

This board with the bs critisicm man I can tell y’all never hooped.

I think he's a solid SG but a below average PG and a good basketball player but there's a reason nurse would use the 2 "PG" lineup so often.

Fred is pretty much Mike James with cooler memories.

He can't make simple passes coming out of the PnR and has bad timing on passes

I'm a lot higher on FVV compared to yrs past and some of his warts are being overexaggerated at this point imo. He's creating for others a lot more often this yr compared to yrs past.

FVV taking all the slander and hate that would go to the other players on the team

The truth is that FVV so far is a limited creator for his teammates. But he deserves the chance to improve and this is a developmental season for a lot of players on this team. So lets exercise some patience and lets see what happens.

It's impossible to hate Fred. He's a great talent but has some holes in his offensive game (which can be fixed still).

The truth is that if Fred were a great finisher around the rim and this great passer everyone wants, he would be a top of the lottery pick that is a generational player who is an MVP candidate making the supermax. If you want a roster with 5 really great starters and a decent bench in a salary cap league, you need to have players who are not perfect at everything.