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Importance of acquiring a 7 footer

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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#101 » by ruckus » Tue Nov 9, 2021 4:40 pm

Basically we just need someone to split time with Birch because Achiuwa is already on this board's sihtlist.

Our rotation would be ok if Precious was up to the task but it looks like he needs more seasoning playing as a C.

There are going to be teams that the Raps don't match up well with. You can't plan for every matchup nor should you hold spots on your roster to plan for every matchup.

The philosophy should be to play your style and trust your style. The coaching staff believes that if this team plays the way they want them to play, it doesn't matter who the opposing team is.
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#102 » by OakleyDokely » Tue Nov 9, 2021 5:31 pm

WaltFrazier wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:
Not sure why we'd want an inferior player. No one is saying, just add a 7 footer no matter how immobile he is. It's simple, Birch is playing passably, Achiuwa is struggling. But Birch doesn't seem like a 38 minute guy, better as part of a pair. A year ago no one thought Birch would be an effective answer at center for us, until he was. He was under the radar. Masai is supposed to be good at finding these diamonds in the rough. Surely he could find a taller version of Birch who could block some shots too, on someone's bench. It would upgrade us over Precious.


But I don't get why someone needs to be 7ft to be effective. Precious and Birch have both been good defensively and on the boards and neither is a 7fter. I guess you can upgrade offensively on them, but usually you have to sacrifice defensively, unless you can add an all-star caliber player, which I'd be all for. But I don't see many of those type of guys available.


"7 footer" is a red herring, a straw man. 6"10, 6'11 is fine. As someone else posted earlier, the key is, a shot blocker. A rim protector. Birch is fine but he is not quite that.


But size doesn't dictate your ability to be a good shot blocker and rim protector. Ben Wallace was great rim protector and he was 6'8, 6'9. And there are a lot or big guys who don't protect the rim. The decision should always be skills over size.
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#103 » by vini_vidi_vici » Tue Nov 9, 2021 6:02 pm

ruckus wrote:Basically we just need someone to split time with Birch because Achiuwa is already on this board's sihtlist.

Our rotation would be ok if Precious was up to the task but it looks like he needs more seasoning playing as a C.

There are going to be teams that the Raps don't match up well with. You can't plan for every matchup nor should you hold spots on your roster to plan for every matchup.

The philosophy should be to play your style and trust your style. The coaching staff believes that if this team plays the way they want them to play, it doesn't matter who the opposing team is.


If he needs more seasoning, why not continue to play him?? Hes 22.

I dont get it, this fanbase was passionate for a rebuild (me too), but after 10 games cant handle giving mins to develop a player.
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#104 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue Nov 9, 2021 6:43 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:
But I don't get why someone needs to be 7ft to be effective. Precious and Birch have both been good defensively and on the boards and neither is a 7fter. I guess you can upgrade offensively on them, but usually you have to sacrifice defensively, unless you can add an all-star caliber player, which I'd be all for. But I don't see many of those type of guys available.


"7 footer" is a red herring, a straw man. 6"10, 6'11 is fine. As someone else posted earlier, the key is, a shot blocker. A rim protector. Birch is fine but he is not quite that.


But size doesn't dictate your ability to be a good shot blocker and rim protector. Ben Wallace was great rim protector and he was 6'8, 6'9. And there are a lot or big guys who don't protect the rim. The decision should always be skills over size.


The argument is that Birch/Achiuwa's mobility keeps teams out of the paint. There is a "deterrent" style of shotblocker (Embiid/Gobert/Turner), or you can have guys cover more of the floor and beat drivers to spots, and are athletic enough to recover out to the perimeter. This is actually what Marc Gasol did for us. Terribly slow, zero lift, no rim protection at all, but he was just smart and strong. His 'mobility' was just anticipation and intelligence.

I have a lot of the same reservations about this being a long-term strategy, but I don't think it matters right now. They may go through several types before they hit on the right blend.
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#105 » by vini_vidi_vici » Tue Nov 9, 2021 6:51 pm

Player A
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Player B
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Which one dont you want protecting the rim??
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#106 » by vini_vidi_vici » Tue Nov 9, 2021 6:54 pm

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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#107 » by alienchild » Tue Nov 9, 2021 7:13 pm

vini_vidi_vici wrote:
ruckus wrote:Basically we just need someone to split time with Birch because Achiuwa is already on this board's sihtlist.

Our rotation would be ok if Precious was up to the task but it looks like he needs more seasoning playing as a C.

There are going to be teams that the Raps don't match up well with. You can't plan for every matchup nor should you hold spots on your roster to plan for every matchup.

The philosophy should be to play your style and trust your style. The coaching staff believes that if this team plays the way they want them to play, it doesn't matter who the opposing team is.


If he needs more seasoning, why not continue to play him?? Hes 22.

I dont get it, this fanbase was passionate for a rebuild (me too), but after 10 games cant handle giving mins to develop a player.



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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#108 » by vini_vidi_vici » Tue Nov 9, 2021 7:29 pm

Anyone know who leads the L in fewest Opponents points in the paint??

Ill give you a hint, most of the people in this thread havent looked. We should look at the Cavs, 3rd most points in the paint, with their "bigs", as something to emulate though.
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#109 » by OakleyDokely » Tue Nov 9, 2021 7:54 pm

vini_vidi_vici wrote:Anyone know who leads the L in fewest Opponents points in the paint??

Ill give you a hint, most of the people in this thread havent looked. We should look at the Cavs, 3rd most points in the paint, with their "bigs", as something to emulate though.
I can see wanting to upgrade the C position from an offensive standpoint but the defense and rebounding has been very good with the existing options.
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#110 » by vini_vidi_vici » Tue Nov 9, 2021 8:02 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:
vini_vidi_vici wrote:Anyone know who leads the L in fewest Opponents points in the paint??

Ill give you a hint, most of the people in this thread havent looked. We should look at the Cavs, 3rd most points in the paint, with their "bigs", as something to emulate though.
I can see wanting to upgrade the C position from an offensive standpoint but the defense and rebounding has been very good with the existing options.


Even offensively it makes little sense given our roster construct and what makes the players good.

Heres the top 10 rollers in the L (min 10 possessions).

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Unless you guys want to dump in the post like its 1974, I suggest we have a good player who fits our offense just fine.

Thats not even getting into the asset/s to be used to get this "C".
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#111 » by OakleyDokely » Tue Nov 9, 2021 8:27 pm

vini_vidi_vici wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:
vini_vidi_vici wrote:Anyone know who leads the L in fewest Opponents points in the paint??

Ill give you a hint, most of the people in this thread havent looked. We should look at the Cavs, 3rd most points in the paint, with their "bigs", as something to emulate though.
I can see wanting to upgrade the C position from an offensive standpoint but the defense and rebounding has been very good with the existing options.


Even offensively it makes little sense given our roster construct and what makes the players good.

Heres the top 10 rollers in the L (min 10 possessions).

Image

Unless you guys want to dump in the post like its 1974, I suggest we have a good player who fits our offense just fine.

Thats not even getting into the asset/s to be used to get this "C".


I'm with you. Precious+Birch+smallball lineups are fine, unless we can add a legit allstar at the position.
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#112 » by everdiso » Tue Nov 9, 2021 8:41 pm

The only issue with the C really is that precious shoots too much.
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#113 » by akakalakin » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:33 am

Sure you can get into playoffs maybe even win a round or two but bigs will bleed you out. Can they just be traded for during a run? maybe
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#114 » by NotMyKawhi » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:46 am

we need Jokic lol I know it would never happen but Pascal, flynn, Banton, 4 future 1sts, 4 future 1st swaps for Jokic

FVV
Trent
OG
Barnes
Jokic

is better than the current nuggets imo.
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#115 » by Zeno » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:48 am

Anyone else a bit concerned with how definitively Khem has been ruled out of the next two games. I don't think we particularly need a 7 footer like this thread suggests but we do need Birch quite a bit.
When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?

Please advise….

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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#116 » by Indeed » Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:40 am

vini_vidi_vici wrote:Anyone know who leads the L in fewest Opponents points in the paint??

Ill give you a hint, most of the people in this thread havent looked. We should look at the Cavs, 3rd most points in the paint, with their "bigs", as something to emulate though.


From basketball reference, opponent FG% from 0 - 3, we are giving up in the top 4 at 71.8%. Meaning opponents may not shoot a lot in the paint (or at 0 - 3), but the shooting percentage is among highest.

If you watch the last game, you probably know we have everyone come into the paint and protect the rim. In perfect scenario with our length, we can go out and contest 3 point shots. However, most of the time we are not perfect, and we were leading (now 2nd) in corner 3 attempts (29.7%).

In conclusion, we are not giving a lot of attempts in the paint, if we do, they are most likely going to score (71.8%). If they are able to make a pass to shooters (2nd in giving up corner 3), we need to be perfect in rotation and quick enough to contest them, and keep us in the middle of the league.

Or if we have a shot blocker (actually Birch isn't bad contesting shot, but probably not enough with just one), we may not need to collapse that much and stay with shooters. Just my thought.
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#117 » by God Squad » Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:06 am

Los Soles wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:Underachieved is a vague, fuzzy, subjective term. And who knows about listed heights in the NBA?

Marc Gasol is sometimes listed as 6"11, always looked taller to me. But him, Pau Gasol, Joel Embiid, KG, Tim Duncan.
Serge. Yao Ming cut short by injuries.

You can split hairs about 6'11 vs 7'0 or more, or were KG and TD forwards. But they played like centers.

I will split hairs, because thread title. Literally every guy on your list fails in at least one of the following ways:

  • Not actually 7 feet tall
  • Spent a significant chunk of career playing not center
  • Zero titles as one of the best players on the team
This is the whole point. There was a time when the whole league believed a true 7-footer at C next to an also tall (circa 6-10 or 6-11) but more skilled PF (e.g., Timmy or KG) was ideal. But those days are gone, primarily because those true 7-footers failed again and again and again. They got injured, were too slow, and/or lacked the skills (Yao Ming, Roy Hibbert, Hasheem Thabeet, Greg Oden, Emeka Okafor, Kwame Brown, etc.). The most successful "centers" were PFs who started playing more center.

And yet here we are, still talking about 7-footers. Now you're saying that line isn't really the key. Ok...so where is the line then? Thread title says 7-footer. You think the arbitrary line is actually...what? 6-11? 6-10?

Wrong. The game moved into more perimeter scoring pg/sg/sf. In the 90's 2000's it was all about either having a big low post center to either be a star, or stop an opposing star. In terms of 6'11 or 6'10 it really doesn't matter. But they have to "PLAY" like a weak side shot blocking center. I said previously I'd like a Miles Turner type ( 6'11) but not specifically him. Also because they game moved into a more guard style, none of those bigs you mentioned could adapt to the three point line and some couldn't guard in space/ PnR.
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#118 » by KL78192020 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:16 am

vini_vidi_vici wrote:
ruckus wrote:Basically we just need someone to split time with Birch because Achiuwa is already on this board's sihtlist.

Our rotation would be ok if Precious was up to the task but it looks like he needs more seasoning playing as a C.

There are going to be teams that the Raps don't match up well with. You can't plan for every matchup nor should you hold spots on your roster to plan for every matchup.

The philosophy should be to play your style and trust your style. The coaching staff believes that if this team plays the way they want them to play, it doesn't matter who the opposing team is.


If he needs more seasoning, why not continue to play him?? Hes 22.

I dont get it, this fanbase was passionate for a rebuild (me too), but after 10 games cant handle giving mins to develop a player.


I wish they'd give more minutes to Flynn as well. Focus should be on developing the young guys and learning. I hope Precious keeps his minutes.
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#119 » by ATLTimekeeper » Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:20 pm

Indeed wrote:
vini_vidi_vici wrote:Anyone know who leads the L in fewest Opponents points in the paint??

Ill give you a hint, most of the people in this thread havent looked. We should look at the Cavs, 3rd most points in the paint, with their "bigs", as something to emulate though.


From basketball reference, opponent FG% from 0 - 3, we are giving up in the top 4 at 71.8%. Meaning opponents may not shoot a lot in the paint (or at 0 - 3), but the shooting percentage is among highest.

If you watch the last game, you probably know we have everyone come into the paint and protect the rim. In perfect scenario with our length, we can go out and contest 3 point shots. However, most of the time we are not perfect, and we were leading (now 2nd) in corner 3 attempts (29.7%).

In conclusion, we are not giving a lot of attempts in the paint, if we do, they are most likely going to score (71.8%). If they are able to make a pass to shooters (2nd in giving up corner 3), we need to be perfect in rotation and quick enough to contest them, and keep us in the middle of the league.

Or if we have a shot blocker (actually Birch isn't bad contesting shot, but probably not enough with just one), we may not need to collapse that much and stay with shooters. Just my thought.


They've given up the corner 3, but have taken away the above the break 3. So more role players are getting easy high % looks, but it's still a lower volume shot than the above the break 3. League high from the corners the last few years is 11-12 shots, and the Raptors have been up there. Above the break is around 30, and this year the Raptors are giving up 22. This is in part because Achiuwa and Birch can extend pretty far (although Birch is more conservative).

Given that Achiuwa, Barnes, Banton, Mykailiuk are all playing minutes this is pretty promising. As they gain experience in the league and in the system they'll be able to make more intuitive plays. Even Birch and Trent have barely been with the team.
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Re: Importance of acquiring a 7 footer 

Post#120 » by ruckus » Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:23 pm

everdiso wrote:The only issue with the C really is that precious shoots too much.


It's just a matter of him learning when and where to take his shots. Last game he did a much better job of dribbling to the free throw line and taking a jumper from there.
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